"Dove! Dove! Smashed the black star!" quote - full text? [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Dove! Dove! Smashed the black star!" quote - full text? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andyr
09-03-07, 06:58 AM Some posters think a reference in the DM's Sourcebook to the Realms relates to the Spellplague, based on (as far as I know) something mentioned at GenCon. After searching a few threads I have found the following quote:

Originally Posted by Maransreth
on page 36 of the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms we see the start of the Recent News and Rumours of the Realms. In Ches, the 4th bullet point is about the Mad Witch of the Thunder Peaks, Marchayn of Archendale, who is found mindless and drooling and repeatedly saying "Dove! Dove! Smashed the black star .... Dove!"

Could anyone post the full text of this bullet point, or shed some light on why we think this might be related to the Spellplague?
BadCatMan
09-03-07, 07:19 AM Here it is:

Ches 1256

Marchayn of Archendale, the feared “Mad Witch” of the Thunder Peaks, has been found in her citadel, mindless and drooling, amidst chaos. All about her tower lay the dead bodies of the orcs (and worse) that served her, and much of her tower is now a fire-blackened shell. The herdsman who found her reported to merchants of Arabel that Marchayn (who soon died and whose body was burned by the herdsman) repeated endlessly, "Dove! Dove! Smashed the black star... Dove!" (*)

Incredibly vague, but the strangest thing in the Ol' Grey Box that can't be connected to anything else.

Incidentally, "News reports that will NOT ever have follow-up in the published Realms material are marked with a (*)." but that policy never lasted long.

Black star - sounds like something of Shar's?

Folk have been assuming that Dove smashed the star, but I read it more as Marchayn trying to tell Dove that Marchayn did it.
MarkusTay63
09-03-07, 12:17 PM The big connecting factor, IMHO, is that she was the 'mad' witch, and we know that Halaster was/is involved with the Spellplague at some level (trying to prevent it from happening again, most likely). The fact that both were insane at the time of that blurb could be the correlating factor... or not.

There was also a news report of Zentarrim experimenting with 'new magics' and that Manshoon was on the verge of a major breakthrough. However, that sentence could be applied to just about anything Zentarrim related, and several strange things have come from them since then that could explain that line.
Eli_the_Tanner
09-03-07, 06:18 PM It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a puzzle, wrapped in a conundrum, wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a quandary.

Chasing march hares and wild geese; I think they'll keep us guessing for some time now....good work - It raise more questions than answers, for now. I Love It!!!:evillaugh
Dark Wizard
09-03-07, 10:59 PM Maybe the plague doesn't destroy arcanists, but rather it drives them mad. This is already hinted with Halaster and now tying the mad witch Marchayn into it further suggests this. I recall some of the designers noted that wizards who get sufficiently advance into their magical studies start to become more and more susceptible to madness and other mental degradations. It was also said that something akin to a support structure, such as the Churches of Mystra and Azuth, helps alleviate these maladies. Then again, I'm paraphrasing based on summarized memories of things I read a long time ago, so the mind devil holds the details captive.
True_Atlantean
09-04-07, 06:27 AM Maybe the plague doesn't destroy arcanists, but rather it drives them mad. This is already hinted with Halaster and now tying the mad witch Marchayn into it further suggests this. I recall some of the designers noted that wizards who get sufficiently advance into their magical studies start to become more and more susceptible to madness and other mental degradations. It was also said that something akin to a support structure, such as the Churches of Mystra and Azuth, helps alleviate these maladies. Then again, I'm paraphrasing based on summarized memories of things I read a long time ago, so the mind devil holds the details captive.

I do remember something of a similar ilk in one of the books - again, no distinct details. It does, however, stand to reason that mortals wielding the sorts of powers that are accessible at higher levels are suceptible to madness. It is only natural.

If you were to then introduce something that even slightly tips the scales to the side of insanity, some may not have the mental fortitude required to fully resist.

In the scope of utter devastation, imagine what entire contries of mad wizards and sorcerors would do. Places like Halruaa and Thay would become warzones overnight. If the insanity was channeled into attempts of destruction, the outcome would be terrifying for the general populace. Governments would be bent towards damage control, the Churches would be trying to limit the death toll and the Clergy of Mystra and Azuth would be in a frenzy to both assist the mages and seek an understanding of what is occurring.

In all, very scary.

I'd love to run a campaign set during this sort of period. :D
Andyr
09-04-07, 10:01 AM Thanks, BadCatMan. :)
MarkusTay63
09-04-07, 11:32 AM Plus, we've had like a dozen 'so-and-so the Mad Mage' in canon, not to mention plenty of others who are obviously insane. I'm particularly fond of that guy from Tsharoon who used to teleport dragons out of their lairs and directly above cities - now THAT'S a practical joker! :D

However, although I still feel madness may be related somehow (through Shar - Halaster did tell Mystra he was "Shar's creature"), I think it will be more along the lines of "a plague of spells" - Living Spells a'la Eberron's Mournlands. I've read elsewhere that Halaster was experimenting with them when he bit the dust in Undermountain.
MarkHall
09-04-07, 11:46 AM I was given to understand that, as you approached a certain threshhold of power, the magic simply drove you insane.
GothicDan
09-04-07, 11:54 AM I always thought the insanity (besides the normal social/emotional reasons) was from the Vancian spellcasting - cast and forget. Over time, your mind just started to get holes in it.
Dark Wizard
09-05-07, 11:55 PM Swiss cheese for brains?
MarkHall
09-06-07, 12:42 AM I always thought the insanity (besides the normal social/emotional reasons) was from the Vancian spellcasting - cast and forget. Over time, your mind just started to get holes in it.

Apropos of this... I've been thinking about preparation times and such, and it seems to me that 2e spell memorization times make a lot more sense with 3.x spell preparation rationale , and 3.x spell preparation times make more sense with 2e spell memorization times.

Think about it.

In 3.x, you require 1 hour to prepare your spells, no matter your level, or how many spells you have. If you're memorizing them, this represents that, at low levels, you're having to do a lot of work to memorize unfamiliar patterns... you don't have a lot experience, you don't know your spells as well, and so forth. As you gain in level, you memorize some of your spells in a snap... memorizing magic missile for the ten billionth time is a snap... and you devote more of your hour to memorizing your higher-level spells. It still doesn't take you as long, though, because you've become more efficient about it.

In 2e, you required 10 minutes per spell level. If you're preparing them, the argument is that you're pre-casting them... you're casting a good portion of the spell, except for one final word and gesture that will release the spell in full. Now, if you've only got a few cantrips and 2 1st level spells, this shouldn't take you much time at all. If you've got 60 levels of spells, that could take a fair amount of time to chant out everything and swallow all of those newt eyes.

Sorry. Random.
Fabius Maximus
09-06-07, 09:26 AM Plus, we've had like a dozen 'so-and-so the Mad Mage' in canon, not to mention plenty of others who are obviously insane. I'm particularly fond of that guy from Tsharoon who used to teleport dragons out of their lairs and directly above cities - now THAT'S a practical joker! :D

That's funny, but Halaster trumps that. Only he could teleport a black dragon, several giants and other critters between two armies getting ready for battle. I wonder if he watched the ensueing chaos and chuckled to himself...
MarkusTay63
09-06-07, 11:25 AM Since Tsharoon was more then likely an Imaskar survivor-state (given it's location AND timeframe), it makes sense that both Halaster and Ansryn Tehvyae had access to the Big-monster teleportation spell.

@GD - That's Brilliant! :D

I never considered the adverse affects of all those portions of the brain that keep getting re-written - it would be like NEVER de-fragging your Hardrive! It would still work, but it would slow down and get 'sloppy' after awhile.

We should borrow the Pensive from HP to clean-up all those magically 'muddied' brains. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andyr 09-03-07, 06:58 AM	Some posters think a reference in the DM's Sourcebook to the Realms relates to the Spellplague, based on (as far as I know) something mentioned at GenCon. After searching a few threads I have found the following quote: Originally Posted by Maransreth on page 36 of the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms we see the start of the Recent News and Rumours of the Realms. In Ches, the 4th bullet point is about the Mad Witch of the Thunder Peaks, Marchayn of Archendale, who is found mindless and drooling and repeatedly saying "Dove! Dove! Smashed the black star .... Dove!" Could anyone post the full text of this bullet point, or shed some light on why we think this might be related to the Spellplague?
BadCatMan 09-03-07, 07:19 AM	Here it is: Ches 1256 Marchayn of Archendale, the feared “Mad Witch” of the Thunder Peaks, has been found in her citadel, mindless and drooling, amidst chaos. All about her tower lay the dead bodies of the orcs (and worse) that served her, and much of her tower is now a fire-blackened shell. The herdsman who found her reported to merchants of Arabel that Marchayn (who soon died and whose body was burned by the herdsman) repeated endlessly, "Dove! Dove! Smashed the black star... Dove!" () Incredibly vague, but the strangest thing in the Ol' Grey Box that can't be connected to anything else. Incidentally, "News reports that will NOT ever have follow-up in the published Realms material are marked with a ()." but that policy never lasted long. Black star - sounds like something of Shar's? Folk have been assuming that Dove smashed the star, but I read it more as Marchayn trying to tell Dove that Marchayn did it.
MarkusTay63 09-03-07, 12:17 PM	The big connecting factor, IMHO, is that she was the 'mad' witch, and we know that Halaster was/is involved with the Spellplague at some level (trying to prevent it from happening again, most likely). The fact that both were insane at the time of that blurb could be the correlating factor... or not. There was also a news report of Zentarrim experimenting with 'new magics' and that Manshoon was on the verge of a major breakthrough. However, that sentence could be applied to just about anything Zentarrim related, and several strange things have come from them since then that could explain that line.
Eli_the_Tanner 09-03-07, 06:18 PM	It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a puzzle, wrapped in a conundrum, wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a quandary. Chasing march hares and wild geese; I think they'll keep us guessing for some time now....good work - It raise more questions than answers, for now. I Love It!!!:evillaugh
Dark Wizard 09-03-07, 10:59 PM	Maybe the plague doesn't destroy arcanists, but rather it drives them mad. This is already hinted with Halaster and now tying the mad witch Marchayn into it further suggests this. I recall some of the designers noted that wizards who get sufficiently advance into their magical studies start to become more and more susceptible to madness and other mental degradations. It was also said that something akin to a support structure, such as the Churches of Mystra and Azuth, helps alleviate these maladies. Then again, I'm paraphrasing based on summarized memories of things I read a long time ago, so the mind devil holds the details captive.
True_Atlantean 09-04-07, 06:27 AM	Maybe the plague doesn't destroy arcanists, but rather it drives them mad. This is already hinted with Halaster and now tying the mad witch Marchayn into it further suggests this. I recall some of the designers noted that wizards who get sufficiently advance into their magical studies start to become more and more susceptible to madness and other mental degradations. It was also said that something akin to a support structure, such as the Churches of Mystra and Azuth, helps alleviate these maladies. Then again, I'm paraphrasing based on summarized memories of things I read a long time ago, so the mind devil holds the details captive. I do remember something of a similar ilk in one of the books - again, no distinct details. It does, however, stand to reason that mortals wielding the sorts of powers that are accessible at higher levels are suceptible to madness. It is only natural. If you were to then introduce something that even slightly tips the scales to the side of insanity, some may not have the mental fortitude required to fully resist. In the scope of utter devastation, imagine what entire contries of mad wizards and sorcerors would do. Places like Halruaa and Thay would become warzones overnight. If the insanity was channeled into attempts of destruction, the outcome would be terrifying for the general populace. Governments would be bent towards damage control, the Churches would be trying to limit the death toll and the Clergy of Mystra and Azuth would be in a frenzy to both assist the mages and seek an understanding of what is occurring. In all, very scary. I'd love to run a campaign set during this sort of period. :D
Andyr 09-04-07, 10:01 AM	Thanks, BadCatMan. :)
MarkusTay63 09-04-07, 11:32 AM	Plus, we've had like a dozen 'so-and-so the Mad Mage' in canon, not to mention plenty of others who are obviously insane. I'm particularly fond of that guy from Tsharoon who used to teleport dragons out of their lairs and directly above cities - now THAT'S a practical joker! :D However, although I still feel madness may be related somehow (through Shar - Halaster did tell Mystra he was "Shar's creature"), I think it will be more along the lines of "a plague of spells" - Living Spells a'la Eberron's Mournlands. I've read elsewhere that Halaster was experimenting with them when he bit the dust in Undermountain.
MarkHall 09-04-07, 11:46 AM	I was given to understand that, as you approached a certain threshhold of power, the magic simply drove you insane.
GothicDan 09-04-07, 11:54 AM	I always thought the insanity (besides the normal social/emotional reasons) was from the Vancian spellcasting - cast and forget. Over time, your mind just started to get holes in it.
Dark Wizard 09-05-07, 11:55 PM	Swiss cheese for brains?
MarkHall 09-06-07, 12:42 AM	I always thought the insanity (besides the normal social/emotional reasons) was from the Vancian spellcasting - cast and forget. Over time, your mind just started to get holes in it. Apropos of this... I've been thinking about preparation times and such, and it seems to me that 2e spell memorization times make a lot more sense with 3.x spell preparation rationale , and 3.x spell preparation times make more sense with 2e spell memorization times. Think about it. In 3.x, you require 1 hour to prepare your spells, no matter your level, or how many spells you have. If you're memorizing them, this represents that, at low levels, you're having to do a lot of work to memorize unfamiliar patterns... you don't have a lot experience, you don't know your spells as well, and so forth. As you gain in level, you memorize some of your spells in a snap... memorizing magic missile for the ten billionth time is a snap... and you devote more of your hour to memorizing your higher-level spells. It still doesn't take you as long, though, because you've become more efficient about it. In 2e, you required 10 minutes per spell level. If you're preparing them, the argument is that you're pre-casting them... you're casting a good portion of the spell, except for one final word and gesture that will release the spell in full. Now, if you've only got a few cantrips and 2 1st level spells, this shouldn't take you much time at all. If you've got 60 levels of spells, that could take a fair amount of time to chant out everything and swallow all of those newt eyes. Sorry. Random.
Fabius Maximus 09-06-07, 09:26 AM	Plus, we've had like a dozen 'so-and-so the Mad Mage' in canon, not to mention plenty of others who are obviously insane. I'm particularly fond of that guy from Tsharoon who used to teleport dragons out of their lairs and directly above cities - now THAT'S a practical joker! :D That's funny, but Halaster trumps that. Only he could teleport a black dragon, several giants and other critters between two armies getting ready for battle. I wonder if he watched the ensueing chaos and chuckled to himself...
MarkusTay63 09-06-07, 11:25 AM	Since Tsharoon was more then likely an Imaskar survivor-state (given it's location AND timeframe), it makes sense that both Halaster and Ansryn Tehvyae had access to the Big-monster teleportation spell. @GD - That's Brilliant! :D I never considered the adverse affects of all those portions of the brain that keep getting re-written - it would be like NEVER de-fragging your Hardrive! It would still work, but it would slow down and get 'sloppy' after awhile. We should borrow the Pensive from HP to clean-up all those magically 'muddied' brains. :P