Appearance of Karsus? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Appearance of Karsus? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shemeska the Marauder
10-08-03, 08:22 PM Realmslore isn't my thing, Planescape is, so this question gets addressed to you all since I don't know the answer. And I need it for a very brief mention in a game I'm running this weekend. So any help would be appreciated. :)

Does anyone know what Karsus looked like physically? His personality is fairly well described, as is his history, but nowhere have I seen a physical description of him.

Has his appearance ever been detailed in any books prior to 3e? And if so, what did he look like?
primemover003
10-08-03, 09:45 PM I'm pretty sure he was described in the Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set or the adventure How the Mighty are Fallen. I've got both of these Arcane Age supplements at my kip and will check for you.
Ryltar Swordsong
10-08-03, 09:53 PM I looked in Netheril, haven't found a description. I think he might have made an appearance in The Arcane Age trilogy.
DarkWalker
10-08-03, 11:14 PM I haven't read the novel yet, but I know he makes an apperance in the second book of the Netheril Trilogy.
Kuje31
10-08-03, 11:28 PM I looked in Powers and Pantheons also, but it doesn't give a descrip of him. I guess the only place to find it is in the novels.
Shemeska the Marauder
10-08-03, 11:39 PM Drat, that was what I'd hoped wasn't the case since I don't have easy access to the novels, but I either have the pdf of the supplements or access to friends' copies of the paper versions.

Anyone who might have read the Netheril Trilogy and remember what he looked like? Worst case scenario I use the mental image of him I already have and my players likely won't know the difference. :)
Kain's avatar
10-09-03, 12:55 AM There is a pic of him in Magic of Faerūn, however, it's slightly deformed. ;) Looks like a typical archmage type dude, a bit younger looking, with a beard.
Adrian Moonbow
10-09-03, 02:58 AM In the start of his twenties. A bit youngish...

Plus he has a childish behaviour.

At least that's what I remember from the Netheril trilogy.

Don't worry: Karsus changed his appearance like other people change pants.:P He was the craziest of all the archmages.
Shemeska the Marauder
10-09-03, 03:27 AM Hmm... I guess this also raises another question of mine. How old was Karsus actually when he cast Karsus' Avatar?

Because when I mention him in my campaign this weekend it's going to be by way of a legend lore on something ever so tenuously connected to him. And when the PCs do see an image of him, it would be around roughly the time he began researching the spell, and then another image of when he was in the process of casting in.

With a twist thrown in of course. But in case any of my players may read this, I'd rather not say just what will be varying from canon FR history here. But I would like to make everyones favorite mad Archmage (sorry Halaster) appear as he's been described before.
Kuje31
10-09-03, 03:52 AM Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Hmm... I guess this also raises another question of mine. How old was Karsus actually when he cast Karsus' Avatar?

This we can answer :) According to the Netheril box set he was 357 years old when he cast that spell.

He was born in 3163 Netheril time and died in 3520.

Or by DR it happened in -339 and he was born in -696.
Mirtek
10-09-03, 04:48 AM The most strange thing about Karsus is that he is basically the village idiot.

In the novel you see that he's a weirdo . He's gifted, but he's a fool. He admits that he sometimes doesn't even know how he cast his spells, he just does it.

He's the guy everybody would lough about, if he wouldn't have his awesome magical power. He acts like a foolm he speaks like a fool and he even looks like a fool because he is always wearing the most ridiculous clothes (and nobody dares to tell him and thus his dress becomes the next fashion because nobody wants to anger him).

He's like a big child and seems to think that everything is a game and he always starts new things only to abandon for new things without ever finishing them.
Amoun
10-09-03, 07:40 AM so a powerful village idiot.... he is my new idol MUHAAHAH hehe :P It is surprising if these facts are true... perhaps there was something else to him that is not described in the novels... Personally I would love to see the old bugger back... hehe crazy little guy
Malaug
10-09-03, 08:32 AM In the Netheril Trilogy it describes him as short, thin, very bald but with stringy bits of hair and wearing a stained and fraying robe (Which he incidentally changed out of into a gold and white robe before he cast Karsus' Avatar).

You are correct in saying that he was like a pouty child and he almost didn't know his own mind, one day something was one way, the next it was the other. He was totally random in his thought patterns.
Arravis
10-09-03, 09:27 AM The personality type seems quite unrealistic for the most powerful of archmages... someone that's that flaky wouldn't have the patience to learn a spell, wouldn't have the dedication to create new magics, wouldn't have the will power to keep his mind under the duresses of powerful magics, and wouldn't simply have mental tanacity to go that indepth into magical research. Maybe it's just me...
Cunning Linguist
10-09-03, 10:00 AM Karsus cast his first cantrip before he could walk. He never needed to study magic, it came naturally.

It kind of reminds me of these people I saw on 60min. who knew everything about Music, but nothing about anything else. Sure Karsus could do other things, but his understanding of magic was far above even Ioulaum. It took Ioulaum 3000 years to become a 41 level Arcanist, it only took Karsus 300 and some years.

And after he made the greatest Enclave in Netheril, the people of Netheril saw him as a greater Arcanist then Ioulaum.

But remember, Karsus was both the yin and the yang. He had a calm and relaxed side also, but anything could make him fall into a tantrum. Perhaps it was this extreme behaviour that made him understand magic better then anyone else.
Mirtek
10-09-03, 12:18 PM Well, power can cause madness. That's why the chosen are so proud to still be "almost sane"

Think of Halaster. Now multiply both his power and his madness by 100 and you come near Karsus.
Shemeska the Marauder
10-09-03, 12:47 PM I think thats a very good comparison there between Karsus and Halaster.

Karsus was apparently simply intuitive about learning magic and likely while he said things 'just came to him', he probably was describing the same learning process differently than a normal wizard would, not possessed of the natural skill and sheer intelligence of Karsus.

It might have seemed trivial to Karsus, and barely taken thought what it might have taken another wizard years to learn.

I would think that while he was more nuts than Mr. Peanut half the time, his madness would also manifest itself as a fickle, yet obsessive drive to understand magic. Shades of a savant, much like Mozart was with music.
The_Sleeper
10-09-03, 02:36 PM I dont see him as being as crazy as many of you make it sound, although he was most definately crazy... although i havnt got the chance to go pick up the novels to read yet.:rolleyes:
Kuje31
10-09-03, 02:47 PM Originally posted by The_Sleeper
I dont see him as being as crazy as many of you make it sound, although he was most definately crazy... although i havnt got the chance to go pick up the novels to read yet.:rolleyes:

Well the Netheril box set says it best "He was stark, raving mad. He acted like an excited child most of the time, and his tantrums were to be avoided at all costs. He could be warm and friendly or ruthless and tyrannical; there wasn't really anything in between."
ENHenry
10-10-03, 03:27 PM So what we're suggesting here is that Karsus was one of the world's most powerful SORCERERS?

The only thing missing would be the natural charisma. :)
Cunning Linguist
10-10-03, 04:24 PM Understanding magic and Using magic is two different things.
Karsus was born with a natural insight into how magic worked.
A Wizard and a Sorcerer is different in the same was as an Architect and a bricklayer.
Karsus understood how magic worked without having to stay and read tomes and tomes of magic lore.
The sorcerer almost never understands why a spell works, or how it came to be, he just knows how to cast it. Karsus on the other hand did.
Ryltar Swordsong
10-10-03, 04:59 PM Magic was accessed differently during the time of Netheril. They were all basically sorcerers.
The_Sleeper
10-10-03, 10:11 PM Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong
Magic was accessed differently during the time of Netheril. They were all basically sorcerers.

Well...:rolleyes: , as far as the Netherese go anyway. All of the other races used the Weave the same as today.:b:
Ryltar Swordsong
10-10-03, 10:25 PM By "they", I meant the Netherese.
The_Sleeper
10-10-03, 10:32 PM o hehe.:D
nick012000
10-11-03, 12:27 AM He sounds like he has autism.
Baron Phylos
10-11-03, 01:21 AM From "Netheril: Empire of Magic"
Karsus discovered that the phaerimm’s magic drain was beginning to weaken the life-enduring magic he had constructed around himself, and he determined that he needed to find the source of
the draining or choose a different way to stay alive. He reverted to
lichdom and began experimenting with heavy magic. This graft of
physics, chemistry, and magic was so unstable, Karsus felt that it

So in the end he looked like a Lich with only a few years of "decay".
Pandelume
10-12-03, 05:38 PM Well ths answer to this is, What ever Karsus wanted to look like. :D
Shemeska the Marauder
10-13-03, 09:38 PM Just wanted to say thanks for the info on this thread to everyone who posted. I got to use the appearance suggestions and tidbits from various sources that folks found, and in the end I had some jaw dropping moments from my players. :D

Nothing like a revelation to a character from Faerun when he discovers that a specific plot central fiend that he already had reason to loath, not only aided Karsus in his research into the Avatar spell, but came unasked and unwanted to push Karsus down the path of arrogance that led to Mystryls death. *chuckle*

The IC and OOC reaction was priceless since some of the plot has had about a year to stew and develop to that point. And funny that its not even a fully central plot point, but background material and backplot they happened to stumble upon by their own initiative.

So again, thanks everyone. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shemeska the Marauder 10-08-03, 08:22 PM	Realmslore isn't my thing, Planescape is, so this question gets addressed to you all since I don't know the answer. And I need it for a very brief mention in a game I'm running this weekend. So any help would be appreciated. :) Does anyone know what Karsus looked like physically? His personality is fairly well described, as is his history, but nowhere have I seen a physical description of him. Has his appearance ever been detailed in any books prior to 3e? And if so, what did he look like?
primemover003 10-08-03, 09:45 PM	I'm pretty sure he was described in the Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set or the adventure How the Mighty are Fallen. I've got both of these Arcane Age supplements at my kip and will check for you.
Ryltar Swordsong 10-08-03, 09:53 PM	I looked in Netheril, haven't found a description. I think he might have made an appearance in The Arcane Age trilogy.
DarkWalker 10-08-03, 11:14 PM	I haven't read the novel yet, but I know he makes an apperance in the second book of the Netheril Trilogy.
Kuje31 10-08-03, 11:28 PM	I looked in Powers and Pantheons also, but it doesn't give a descrip of him. I guess the only place to find it is in the novels.
Shemeska the Marauder 10-08-03, 11:39 PM	Drat, that was what I'd hoped wasn't the case since I don't have easy access to the novels, but I either have the pdf of the supplements or access to friends' copies of the paper versions. Anyone who might have read the Netheril Trilogy and remember what he looked like? Worst case scenario I use the mental image of him I already have and my players likely won't know the difference. :)
Kain's avatar 10-09-03, 12:55 AM	There is a pic of him in Magic of Faerūn, however, it's slightly deformed. ;) Looks like a typical archmage type dude, a bit younger looking, with a beard.
Adrian Moonbow 10-09-03, 02:58 AM	In the start of his twenties. A bit youngish... Plus he has a childish behaviour. At least that's what I remember from the Netheril trilogy. Don't worry: Karsus changed his appearance like other people change pants.:P He was the craziest of all the archmages.
Shemeska the Marauder 10-09-03, 03:27 AM	Hmm... I guess this also raises another question of mine. How old was Karsus actually when he cast Karsus' Avatar? Because when I mention him in my campaign this weekend it's going to be by way of a legend lore on something ever so tenuously connected to him. And when the PCs do see an image of him, it would be around roughly the time he began researching the spell, and then another image of when he was in the process of casting in. With a twist thrown in of course. But in case any of my players may read this, I'd rather not say just what will be varying from canon FR history here. But I would like to make everyones favorite mad Archmage (sorry Halaster) appear as he's been described before.
Kuje31 10-09-03, 03:52 AM	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder Hmm... I guess this also raises another question of mine. How old was Karsus actually when he cast Karsus' Avatar? This we can answer :) According to the Netheril box set he was 357 years old when he cast that spell. He was born in 3163 Netheril time and died in 3520. Or by DR it happened in -339 and he was born in -696.
Mirtek 10-09-03, 04:48 AM	The most strange thing about Karsus is that he is basically the village idiot. In the novel you see that he's a weirdo . He's gifted, but he's a fool. He admits that he sometimes doesn't even know how he cast his spells, he just does it. He's the guy everybody would lough about, if he wouldn't have his awesome magical power. He acts like a foolm he speaks like a fool and he even looks like a fool because he is always wearing the most ridiculous clothes (and nobody dares to tell him and thus his dress becomes the next fashion because nobody wants to anger him). He's like a big child and seems to think that everything is a game and he always starts new things only to abandon for new things without ever finishing them.
Amoun 10-09-03, 07:40 AM	so a powerful village idiot.... he is my new idol MUHAAHAH hehe :P It is surprising if these facts are true... perhaps there was something else to him that is not described in the novels... Personally I would love to see the old bugger back... hehe crazy little guy
Malaug 10-09-03, 08:32 AM	In the Netheril Trilogy it describes him as short, thin, very bald but with stringy bits of hair and wearing a stained and fraying robe (Which he incidentally changed out of into a gold and white robe before he cast Karsus' Avatar). You are correct in saying that he was like a pouty child and he almost didn't know his own mind, one day something was one way, the next it was the other. He was totally random in his thought patterns.
Arravis 10-09-03, 09:27 AM	The personality type seems quite unrealistic for the most powerful of archmages... someone that's that flaky wouldn't have the patience to learn a spell, wouldn't have the dedication to create new magics, wouldn't have the will power to keep his mind under the duresses of powerful magics, and wouldn't simply have mental tanacity to go that indepth into magical research. Maybe it's just me...
Cunning Linguist 10-09-03, 10:00 AM	Karsus cast his first cantrip before he could walk. He never needed to study magic, it came naturally. It kind of reminds me of these people I saw on 60min. who knew everything about Music, but nothing about anything else. Sure Karsus could do other things, but his understanding of magic was far above even Ioulaum. It took Ioulaum 3000 years to become a 41 level Arcanist, it only took Karsus 300 and some years. And after he made the greatest Enclave in Netheril, the people of Netheril saw him as a greater Arcanist then Ioulaum. But remember, Karsus was both the yin and the yang. He had a calm and relaxed side also, but anything could make him fall into a tantrum. Perhaps it was this extreme behaviour that made him understand magic better then anyone else.
Mirtek 10-09-03, 12:18 PM	Well, power can cause madness. That's why the chosen are so proud to still be "almost sane" Think of Halaster. Now multiply both his power and his madness by 100 and you come near Karsus.
Shemeska the Marauder 10-09-03, 12:47 PM	I think thats a very good comparison there between Karsus and Halaster. Karsus was apparently simply intuitive about learning magic and likely while he said things 'just came to him', he probably was describing the same learning process differently than a normal wizard would, not possessed of the natural skill and sheer intelligence of Karsus. It might have seemed trivial to Karsus, and barely taken thought what it might have taken another wizard years to learn. I would think that while he was more nuts than Mr. Peanut half the time, his madness would also manifest itself as a fickle, yet obsessive drive to understand magic. Shades of a savant, much like Mozart was with music.
The_Sleeper 10-09-03, 02:36 PM	I dont see him as being as crazy as many of you make it sound, although he was most definately crazy... although i havnt got the chance to go pick up the novels to read yet.:rolleyes:
Kuje31 10-09-03, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by The_Sleeper I dont see him as being as crazy as many of you make it sound, although he was most definately crazy... although i havnt got the chance to go pick up the novels to read yet.:rolleyes: Well the Netheril box set says it best "He was stark, raving mad. He acted like an excited child most of the time, and his tantrums were to be avoided at all costs. He could be warm and friendly or ruthless and tyrannical; there wasn't really anything in between."
ENHenry 10-10-03, 03:27 PM	So what we're suggesting here is that Karsus was one of the world's most powerful SORCERERS? The only thing missing would be the natural charisma. :)
Cunning Linguist 10-10-03, 04:24 PM	Understanding magic and Using magic is two different things. Karsus was born with a natural insight into how magic worked. A Wizard and a Sorcerer is different in the same was as an Architect and a bricklayer. Karsus understood how magic worked without having to stay and read tomes and tomes of magic lore. The sorcerer almost never understands why a spell works, or how it came to be, he just knows how to cast it. Karsus on the other hand did.
Ryltar Swordsong 10-10-03, 04:59 PM	Magic was accessed differently during the time of Netheril. They were all basically sorcerers.
The_Sleeper 10-10-03, 10:11 PM	Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong Magic was accessed differently during the time of Netheril. They were all basically sorcerers. Well...:rolleyes: , as far as the Netherese go anyway. All of the other races used the Weave the same as today.:b:
Ryltar Swordsong 10-10-03, 10:25 PM	By "they", I meant the Netherese.
The_Sleeper 10-10-03, 10:32 PM	o hehe.:D
nick012000 10-11-03, 12:27 AM	He sounds like he has autism.
Baron Phylos 10-11-03, 01:21 AM	From "Netheril: Empire of Magic" Karsus discovered that the phaerimm’s magic drain was beginning to weaken the life-enduring magic he had constructed around himself, and he determined that he needed to find the source of the draining or choose a different way to stay alive. He reverted to lichdom and began experimenting with heavy magic. This graft of physics, chemistry, and magic was so unstable, Karsus felt that it So in the end he looked like a Lich with only a few years of "decay".
Pandelume 10-12-03, 05:38 PM	Well ths answer to this is, What ever Karsus wanted to look like. :D
Shemeska the Marauder 10-13-03, 09:38 PM	Just wanted to say thanks for the info on this thread to everyone who posted. I got to use the appearance suggestions and tidbits from various sources that folks found, and in the end I had some jaw dropping moments from my players. :D Nothing like a revelation to a character from Faerun when he discovers that a specific plot central fiend that he already had reason to loath, not only aided Karsus in his research into the Avatar spell, but came unasked and unwanted to push Karsus down the path of arrogance that led to Mystryls death. chuckle The IC and OOC reaction was priceless since some of the plot has had about a year to stew and develop to that point. And funny that its not even a fully central plot point, but background material and backplot they happened to stumble upon by their own initiative. So again, thanks everyone. :)