Asmodeus history [Archive] - Wizards Community

Asmodeus history [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Sleeper
08-04-03, 01:07 AM Does anyone know any background lore on Asmodeus of the Nine Hells?
Ozar
08-04-03, 01:33 AM BOVD drops a tease that he might just be a powerful magic projection of the real Asmodeus, who lies dormant at the very bottom of the Nine Hells.

When are we going to learn if that's the truth or not, anyway? Or does that even apply to the FR?
AberrationDeluxe
08-04-03, 02:13 AM Entirely depends, really. However, I vaguely remember a 2nd Ed. book that established the following:

Originally, there was Order and Chaos. In battle, Chaos was defeated by Order. Order manifested itself as two serpents. In time, these serpents grew to manifest seperate concepts of Order, one that can be called 'good,' and another that can be called 'evil.' These two ancient beings finally came into conflict, wounding both of them. The serpent of good fled to Mount Celestia, where its blood formed the couatls. The serpent of evil fell and ripped a portion of Celestia with it, pulling it into the Seven Hells. His fall and the piece of planar land he brought with him created the eighth and ninth circle of Hell, creating the Nine Hells as it is now known. This is the fabled fall of Asmodeus.

In time, Asmodeus manifested himself in a different manner (the familiar Devil Lord that can be seen in the BoVD). He began the Blood War as a distraction and ploy, not for any real strategic purpose against the Tanari'i. Using his diabolic generals, he prolongs the conflict to suit his own purposes.

For the curious (and suicidal), one can supposedly find the true form of Asmodeus curled around the Ninth Circle of Hell.

Just remember, most of this is half-remembered information and is most likely subject to error. However, I believe the central concepts to be fairly accurate.

EDIT: I nearly forgot about the other serpent. It has not been seen since, although it is theoretically and feasibly possible for it to dwell at the highest point of Mount Celestia. This may explain why nobody returns from the Seventh Layer of Celestia. Also, I also vaguely remember the Lady of Pain being on the same levels of power as Asmodeus and his Good equal. All three are elder beings that transcend the history of the planes.
Mirtek
08-04-03, 07:41 AM Asmodeus
OD&D: He's an archfiend and thus a lesser deity
AD&D 1st: Same as OD&D
AD&D 2nd: He's one of the two serpents and a greater god*
D&D 3rd: He's a big bad devil, but no deity (optional he's a dvr 1 demigod)

*GREATER! Not Overgod, just a greater god (as is the other serpent)
Ozar
08-04-03, 11:39 AM But they didn't give stats for his true form, so for all we know he could be more powerful than a greater deity without being divine.
Mirtek
08-04-03, 11:48 AM Originally posted by Ozar
But they didn't give stats for his true form, so for all we know he could be more powerful than a greater deity without being divine.

The only beings in 2e which didn't had stats were deities and Guide to Hell, the very same sourcebook which tells the story of the two serpents and how they worked together to bring law to the planes, specifically says that both, Asmodeus (back then called Ahriman) and Jazirian (the other serpent) are GREATER GODS (see GtH, page 48)

In 2e he was stated the same way than any other gods, with stats for his avatars and his true form powerfull beyond stats.

He was a powerfull greater god, probably dvr19, but he was "only" a greater god nonetheless.
Gotrex
08-04-03, 12:06 PM So was the whole serpant thing scraped in 3e?
Ozar
08-04-03, 12:18 PM I don't think so, otherwise why was it hinted at in BOVD?
Mirtek
08-04-03, 12:48 PM Originally posted by Gotrex
So was the whole serpant thing scraped in 3e?

Yes, but he isn't the only one.

A lot of the archfiends in the BoVD has been stripped of divinity. Asmo isn't the only Ex-god who's no just an archfiend.
Amoun
08-04-03, 03:22 PM by the way it is suggested in the Sigil book that the Lady of Pain started the blood war somehow... *shrugs* I dunno, I'm afraid this blood doesnt know the dark of it... its suggested and suggested, sometimes I like not knowing for certain but after a while I just really want to know lol... Darn Barmies! TSR, WoTC, Hasbro THEY ARE ALL BARMIES I TELL YOU *Dances around in a pink tutu*
TheDarkestOfAngels
08-04-03, 03:30 PM Did you think that maybe the form of asmodeous in the BOVD is only a representative of the real asmodious, which is really a powerful devil god (whose rank could be subject to opinion.) But that's just senseless rambling.
The_Sleeper
08-04-03, 03:42 PM Originally posted by AberrationDeluxe
Entirely depends, really. However, I vaguely remember a 2nd Ed. book that established the following:

Originally, there was Order and Chaos. In battle, Chaos was defeated by Order. Order manifested itself as two serpents. In time, these serpents grew to manifest seperate concepts of Order, one that can be called 'good,' and another that can be called 'evil.' These two ancient beings finally came into conflict, wounding both of them. The serpent of good fled to Mount Celestia, where its blood formed the couatls. The serpent of evil fell and ripped a portion of Celestia with it, pulling it into the Seven Hells. His fall and the piece of planar land he brought with him created the eighth and ninth circle of Hell, creating the Nine Hells as it is now known. This is the fabled fall of Asmodeus.

In time, Asmodeus manifested himself in a different manner (the familiar Devil Lord that can be seen in the BoVD). He began the Blood War as a distraction and ploy, not for any real strategic purpose against the Tanari'i. Using his diabolic generals, he prolongs the conflict to suit his own purposes.

For the curious (and suicidal), one can supposedly find the true form of Asmodeus curled around the Ninth Circle of Hell.

Just remember, most of this is half-remembered information and is most likely subject to error. However, I believe the central concepts to be fairly accurate.

EDIT: I nearly forgot about the other serpent. It has not been seen since, although it is theoretically and feasibly possible for it to dwell at the highest point of Mount Celestia. This may explain why nobody returns from the Seventh Layer of Celestia. Also, I also vaguely remember the Lady of Pain being on the same levels of power as Asmodeus and his Good equal. All three are elder beings that transcend the history of the planes.

Sweet!! That was just what i was lookin for for my present campaign. TY for the help.:D
allegos
08-05-03, 02:55 AM Since he's a character from real-world mythology (try a Google search with the words "+asmodeus" and "+etymology") one could just as easily decide that Asmodeus is an interloper deity, similar to Tiamat, Osiris, and Tyr. Use whatever works for your campaign.
Antedeus
08-14-03, 08:17 PM From what I understand, however, the interesting thing about the name "Asmodeus" is how it relates to Zoroastrianism and Ancient Persian mythology. In that set of beliefs, the source of all evil is an entity known as Ahriman (also supposedly Asmodeus' name before he fell). Serving Ahriman are a set of fiends known as the Devas (I'm guessing this was a deliberate slam against Hinduism by the Persians), the leader of which was a being named Aesma Deva, the Hebrew-Hellenized version of which is Asmodeus (who, by the way, shows up a number of times in ancient Jewish stories).

Therefore, IMO, it would make relative sense if the WotC made Asmodeus something of an avatar for Ahriman. ^_^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Sleeper 08-04-03, 01:07 AM	Does anyone know any background lore on Asmodeus of the Nine Hells?
Ozar 08-04-03, 01:33 AM	BOVD drops a tease that he might just be a powerful magic projection of the real Asmodeus, who lies dormant at the very bottom of the Nine Hells. When are we going to learn if that's the truth or not, anyway? Or does that even apply to the FR?
AberrationDeluxe 08-04-03, 02:13 AM	Entirely depends, really. However, I vaguely remember a 2nd Ed. book that established the following: Originally, there was Order and Chaos. In battle, Chaos was defeated by Order. Order manifested itself as two serpents. In time, these serpents grew to manifest seperate concepts of Order, one that can be called 'good,' and another that can be called 'evil.' These two ancient beings finally came into conflict, wounding both of them. The serpent of good fled to Mount Celestia, where its blood formed the couatls. The serpent of evil fell and ripped a portion of Celestia with it, pulling it into the Seven Hells. His fall and the piece of planar land he brought with him created the eighth and ninth circle of Hell, creating the Nine Hells as it is now known. This is the fabled fall of Asmodeus. In time, Asmodeus manifested himself in a different manner (the familiar Devil Lord that can be seen in the BoVD). He began the Blood War as a distraction and ploy, not for any real strategic purpose against the Tanari'i. Using his diabolic generals, he prolongs the conflict to suit his own purposes. For the curious (and suicidal), one can supposedly find the true form of Asmodeus curled around the Ninth Circle of Hell. Just remember, most of this is half-remembered information and is most likely subject to error. However, I believe the central concepts to be fairly accurate. EDIT: I nearly forgot about the other serpent. It has not been seen since, although it is theoretically and feasibly possible for it to dwell at the highest point of Mount Celestia. This may explain why nobody returns from the Seventh Layer of Celestia. Also, I also vaguely remember the Lady of Pain being on the same levels of power as Asmodeus and his Good equal. All three are elder beings that transcend the history of the planes.
Mirtek 08-04-03, 07:41 AM	Asmodeus OD&D: He's an archfiend and thus a lesser deity AD&D 1st: Same as OD&D AD&D 2nd: He's one of the two serpents and a greater god* D&D 3rd: He's a big bad devil, but no deity (optional he's a dvr 1 demigod) *GREATER! Not Overgod, just a greater god (as is the other serpent)
Ozar 08-04-03, 11:39 AM	But they didn't give stats for his true form, so for all we know he could be more powerful than a greater deity without being divine.
Mirtek 08-04-03, 11:48 AM	Originally posted by Ozar But they didn't give stats for his true form, so for all we know he could be more powerful than a greater deity without being divine. The only beings in 2e which didn't had stats were deities and Guide to Hell, the very same sourcebook which tells the story of the two serpents and how they worked together to bring law to the planes, specifically says that both, Asmodeus (back then called Ahriman) and Jazirian (the other serpent) are GREATER GODS (see GtH, page 48) In 2e he was stated the same way than any other gods, with stats for his avatars and his true form powerfull beyond stats. He was a powerfull greater god, probably dvr19, but he was "only" a greater god nonetheless.
Gotrex 08-04-03, 12:06 PM	So was the whole serpant thing scraped in 3e?
Ozar 08-04-03, 12:18 PM	I don't think so, otherwise why was it hinted at in BOVD?
Mirtek 08-04-03, 12:48 PM	Originally posted by Gotrex So was the whole serpant thing scraped in 3e? Yes, but he isn't the only one. A lot of the archfiends in the BoVD has been stripped of divinity. Asmo isn't the only Ex-god who's no just an archfiend.
Amoun 08-04-03, 03:22 PM	by the way it is suggested in the Sigil book that the Lady of Pain started the blood war somehow... shrugs I dunno, I'm afraid this blood doesnt know the dark of it... its suggested and suggested, sometimes I like not knowing for certain but after a while I just really want to know lol... Darn Barmies! TSR, WoTC, Hasbro THEY ARE ALL BARMIES I TELL YOU Dances around in a pink tutu
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-04-03, 03:30 PM	Did you think that maybe the form of asmodeous in the BOVD is only a representative of the real asmodious, which is really a powerful devil god (whose rank could be subject to opinion.) But that's just senseless rambling.
The_Sleeper 08-04-03, 03:42 PM	Originally posted by AberrationDeluxe Entirely depends, really. However, I vaguely remember a 2nd Ed. book that established the following: Originally, there was Order and Chaos. In battle, Chaos was defeated by Order. Order manifested itself as two serpents. In time, these serpents grew to manifest seperate concepts of Order, one that can be called 'good,' and another that can be called 'evil.' These two ancient beings finally came into conflict, wounding both of them. The serpent of good fled to Mount Celestia, where its blood formed the couatls. The serpent of evil fell and ripped a portion of Celestia with it, pulling it into the Seven Hells. His fall and the piece of planar land he brought with him created the eighth and ninth circle of Hell, creating the Nine Hells as it is now known. This is the fabled fall of Asmodeus. In time, Asmodeus manifested himself in a different manner (the familiar Devil Lord that can be seen in the BoVD). He began the Blood War as a distraction and ploy, not for any real strategic purpose against the Tanari'i. Using his diabolic generals, he prolongs the conflict to suit his own purposes. For the curious (and suicidal), one can supposedly find the true form of Asmodeus curled around the Ninth Circle of Hell. Just remember, most of this is half-remembered information and is most likely subject to error. However, I believe the central concepts to be fairly accurate. EDIT: I nearly forgot about the other serpent. It has not been seen since, although it is theoretically and feasibly possible for it to dwell at the highest point of Mount Celestia. This may explain why nobody returns from the Seventh Layer of Celestia. Also, I also vaguely remember the Lady of Pain being on the same levels of power as Asmodeus and his Good equal. All three are elder beings that transcend the history of the planes. Sweet!! That was just what i was lookin for for my present campaign. TY for the help.:D
allegos 08-05-03, 02:55 AM	Since he's a character from real-world mythology (try a Google search with the words "+asmodeus" and "+etymology") one could just as easily decide that Asmodeus is an interloper deity, similar to Tiamat, Osiris, and Tyr. Use whatever works for your campaign.
Antedeus 08-14-03, 08:17 PM	From what I understand, however, the interesting thing about the name "Asmodeus" is how it relates to Zoroastrianism and Ancient Persian mythology. In that set of beliefs, the source of all evil is an entity known as Ahriman (also supposedly Asmodeus' name before he fell). Serving Ahriman are a set of fiends known as the Devas (I'm guessing this was a deliberate slam against Hinduism by the Persians), the leader of which was a being named Aesma Deva, the Hebrew-Hellenized version of which is Asmodeus (who, by the way, shows up a number of times in ancient Jewish stories). Therefore, IMO, it would make relative sense if the WotC made Asmodeus something of an avatar for Ahriman. ^_^