Best swordsman/fighter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best swordsman/fighter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ozar
06-20-03, 04:07 PM I'm sure this has been gone over before, but I want to bring it up again to make sure.

So, who exactly is the greatest known (To DM's and Players) warrior in the realms? Is it Shuruppak, or someone else?

As I understand it, he "only" had 20 levels of Fighter in 2nd Edition, and there were other, higher level Fighters than that in 2nd Edition. With 3rd Edition's early, preliminary 20th level cap KOing most NPCs "excess" levels, it becomes more difficult to say.

Or is it impossible to say for now? Perhaps those other Fighters have yet to appear in a supplement?
biomante
06-21-03, 05:55 AM I think the greatest would be Zaknafein (Drizzt's daddy) :bow:
Maskanodel
06-21-03, 11:09 AM Shuruppak would beat Zaknafein in an all out fight simply because of his spellcaster level. But Zak would probably beat him if they agreed to just use blades.
Ozar
06-21-03, 11:23 AM Zaknafein was a Ftr22 in 2nd Edition, right? Well, I don't know if he was the best, but Dabron Sashenstar was a 23rd level Fighter.

Besides,
Spoiler: (Highlight area to read)
Zaknafein is dead,

and we're talking 3rd Edition, present day 1372.
Kilamar
06-21-03, 12:19 PM Since when is death a career ending event in D&D?

Kilamar
Ozar
06-21-03, 12:22 PM Originally posted by Kilamar
Since when is death a career ending event in D&D?

Kilamar

So much for my attempt to avoid spoilers. Oh well, it's your hide anyone burned will come after, not mine.
Ivy
06-21-03, 12:24 PM King Gareth of Damara is a 25th-level paladin (see FRCS). Off the top of my head I can't think of seeing many other "epic-level" fighter-types.
Ozar
06-21-03, 12:44 PM Originally posted by Ivy
King Gareth of Damara is a 25th-level paladin (see FRCS). Off the top of my head I can't think of seeing many other "epic-level" fighter-types.

No, he's a Pal20/Clr5 of Ilmater according to the FRCS.
Ivy
06-21-03, 12:47 PM Originally posted by Ozar
No, he's a Pal20/Clr5 of Ilmater according to the FRCS.

Oops! My mistake. :)
Telagaunt
06-21-03, 05:29 PM Bah! Paladins suck compared to a Ftr 25th level in a swordfight :D

There are several amazing swordmasters in the Realms, Shurupak is definately up there, along with Zaknafien. Also there is Eltan Commander of the Flaming Fist mercenary comapny who is a Ftr 20. I think he could be up there too. Most of these guys do not have full out statistic sheets and so we can hardly know. But in my opinion I go with Maskanodel. Zak would win in a pure swordfight, but if it were all out, who knows what Shurupak would bring out, on top of that, he's evil, and Zak is a drow, they'd fight dirty :D :smirk:
Ilbreth Shadowblade
06-21-03, 05:56 PM Zak was a 23rd or 24th level fighter.
And if we count dead ones, also:
King Azoun IV was a 20th level Ftr (i think)
and the Coronal Eltargrim Irithyl was a Ftr 25 not counting his 19 wizard levels and High Magic
;)
Mirtek
06-21-03, 06:07 PM Originally posted by Ilbreth Shadowblade
and the Coronal Eltargrim Irithyl was a Ftr 25 not counting his 19 wizard levels and High Magic
;)

If that are 2e stats, than don't forget that mulit-class characters are converted with a characterlevel of highest class + (sum of other classes divided by three)

So Ftr25/Wiz19 in 2e becomes Ftr25/Wiz6 in 3e (or to be more precise you calculate the total of 31 levels and then you can spend if freely between the classes, so could make him anything between a Ftr1/Wiz30 and a Ftr30/Wiz1)
Straploknight
06-21-03, 06:38 PM Zak was a 24th level fighter, the best in Menzo at the time.

However due to his current physical condition, he can only be brought back by a wish.
SirUrza
06-21-03, 09:44 PM I'd put Dove pretty high up there, same with Storm.. maybe not as high as Dove. Swordwomen count right? :)
ElGrecoETAC
06-22-03, 03:01 AM While Shurrupak does have more levels, I would say the best LIVING swordsman/fighter (as per the thread's name) is the Duke Eltan of Baldur's Gate. Shurrupak is more experienced, but he is also described as being completely insane. While one might debate whether different forms of insanity would hinder or enhance one's fighting ability, I don't think it's unfair to assume the former, rather than the latter.

Eltan is a highly experienced PURE fighter, who in 2E had almost every magical item/weapon a 20th-level fighter could find handy. Shurrupak is unstable, and--if not metagamed or played unrealistically--not entirely likely to effectively bring to bear every combat trick he has learned.
Kornovus
06-23-03, 04:09 AM Now that you mentioned the items.

Which Items did Zaknafein use when he was still alive? +5 vorpal longswords or something powerful like that?

I mean, if you put 2 20th level fighter against each other, with similar statistics and one has a lowly mundane longsword while the other one gets Shuruppaks sword (as seen in the epic level handbook), the outcome will be fairly clear.

By the way - how is one supposed to imagine a 20th level fighter in action? Given the D&D Monsters such a guy is able to defeat, he would surpass Agent Smith, the guy from Hero and eg Blade in fighting ability with ease.
Kelrain
06-23-03, 06:17 AM Originally posted by Kornovus
By the way - how is one supposed to imagine a 20th level fighter in action? Given the D&D Monsters such a guy is able to defeat, he would surpass Agent Smith, the guy from Hero and eg Blade in fighting ability with ease.

You see, past a certain point Fighters no longer get better, other fighters just get worse when fighting them.
Sculdar
06-23-03, 07:47 AM If i remember his 2nd edition stats correctly Zak used two +5 adamantine longswords....
And another very powerful fighter would be The High Blade of Mulmaster, dont know his name exactly..(Selepharim Mulophor ? :) ) or something. The one that is also a member of the Zhentarim...Ftr20/Rog2 if i am not mistaken (Neither Lords of Darkness nor FRCS at hand right now....).
ElGrecoETAC
06-23-03, 08:33 AM Zak did indeed have twin +5 longswords (NOT Vorpal), +5 chainmail, and his whip may have been special. I can't remember for sure because my books are all stateside, but wasn't it a [i[metal[/i] whip? His items would actually benefit in 3E, not being subject to the disintegration rules anymore (correct?).

Selfaril was a lvl 20 Fighter/lvl 2 Ranger. Not "shabby" at all, and certainly not the sort of guy who rules by sitting on his posterior to be sure... :razz:

But living? Unless I saw a detailed item list for Selfaril, I'm sticking with Eltan. He's so well equipped, is a master tactician, highly intelligent and wise, and 100% in possession of all his mental and physical facilities. Unlike Shurrupak... ;)
Maskanodel
06-23-03, 09:13 AM I just gave Zak +5 keen longswords and +5 elven chain because I thought a weaponmaster deserved better gear. I know some will say "better then +5?", but its just how I feel.
And since were on the topic of sworsman, was anything ever written about Tarnheel Embuirhan? He was the Lord of Mintarn during Passage to Dawn and if I recall, Drizzt had to fight him in order to get the map to Caerwich. Apparently Lord Tarnheel was a swordsman of no small reputation. Has he appeared in any other novels or game products?
Ozar
06-23-03, 12:50 PM Originally posted by Maskanodel
*snip* Passage to Dawn *snip* Drizzt *snip

You know, I think I'm just going to stop visiting these forums until I'm done reading all of these books. I am getting sick and tired of running into unmarked spoilers.

Oh well, at least you didn't write a review with every single plot twist and major event included. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/034544423X/qid=1056386951/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-7880336-9966527?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
Maskanodel
06-23-03, 01:06 PM Sorry about that Ozar. I should've included a spoiler warning, but truth be told, I spoiled a minor detail. The part from Passage to Dawn that I was talkng about is a very small part of the story. All in all I, I think it takes about 2 pages in the book. But a spoiler is still a spoiler so I edited my post to include a spoiler warning.
ysrgrathe
06-24-03, 09:36 AM My vote is on shuruppak, mainly because attack bonuses go up the same after lvl 20. (+1 at 21 and every odd lvl thereafter), so having weak bab classes like wizard and rogue is irrelevant at this point. Plus the equipment he has is quite imporessive.
But i don't know this ftr 25/wiz 19 guy, he sounds hard as nails, he might be better. dunno

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ozar 06-20-03, 04:07 PM	I'm sure this has been gone over before, but I want to bring it up again to make sure. So, who exactly is the greatest known (To DM's and Players) warrior in the realms? Is it Shuruppak, or someone else? As I understand it, he "only" had 20 levels of Fighter in 2nd Edition, and there were other, higher level Fighters than that in 2nd Edition. With 3rd Edition's early, preliminary 20th level cap KOing most NPCs "excess" levels, it becomes more difficult to say. Or is it impossible to say for now? Perhaps those other Fighters have yet to appear in a supplement?
biomante 06-21-03, 05:55 AM	I think the greatest would be Zaknafein (Drizzt's daddy) :bow:
Maskanodel 06-21-03, 11:09 AM	Shuruppak would beat Zaknafein in an all out fight simply because of his spellcaster level. But Zak would probably beat him if they agreed to just use blades.
Ozar 06-21-03, 11:23 AM	Zaknafein was a Ftr22 in 2nd Edition, right? Well, I don't know if he was the best, but Dabron Sashenstar was a 23rd level Fighter. Besides, Spoiler: (Highlight area to read) Zaknafein is dead, and we're talking 3rd Edition, present day 1372.
Kilamar 06-21-03, 12:19 PM	Since when is death a career ending event in D&D? Kilamar
Ozar 06-21-03, 12:22 PM	Originally posted by Kilamar Since when is death a career ending event in D&D? Kilamar So much for my attempt to avoid spoilers. Oh well, it's your hide anyone burned will come after, not mine.
Ivy 06-21-03, 12:24 PM	King Gareth of Damara is a 25th-level paladin (see FRCS). Off the top of my head I can't think of seeing many other "epic-level" fighter-types.
Ozar 06-21-03, 12:44 PM	Originally posted by Ivy King Gareth of Damara is a 25th-level paladin (see FRCS). Off the top of my head I can't think of seeing many other "epic-level" fighter-types. No, he's a Pal20/Clr5 of Ilmater according to the FRCS.
Ivy 06-21-03, 12:47 PM	Originally posted by Ozar No, he's a Pal20/Clr5 of Ilmater according to the FRCS. Oops! My mistake. :)
Telagaunt 06-21-03, 05:29 PM	Bah! Paladins suck compared to a Ftr 25th level in a swordfight :D There are several amazing swordmasters in the Realms, Shurupak is definately up there, along with Zaknafien. Also there is Eltan Commander of the Flaming Fist mercenary comapny who is a Ftr 20. I think he could be up there too. Most of these guys do not have full out statistic sheets and so we can hardly know. But in my opinion I go with Maskanodel. Zak would win in a pure swordfight, but if it were all out, who knows what Shurupak would bring out, on top of that, he's evil, and Zak is a drow, they'd fight dirty :D :smirk:
Ilbreth Shadowblade 06-21-03, 05:56 PM	Zak was a 23rd or 24th level fighter. And if we count dead ones, also: King Azoun IV was a 20th level Ftr (i think) and the Coronal Eltargrim Irithyl was a Ftr 25 not counting his 19 wizard levels and High Magic ;)
Mirtek 06-21-03, 06:07 PM	Originally posted by Ilbreth Shadowblade and the Coronal Eltargrim Irithyl was a Ftr 25 not counting his 19 wizard levels and High Magic ;) If that are 2e stats, than don't forget that mulit-class characters are converted with a characterlevel of highest class + (sum of other classes divided by three) So Ftr25/Wiz19 in 2e becomes Ftr25/Wiz6 in 3e (or to be more precise you calculate the total of 31 levels and then you can spend if freely between the classes, so could make him anything between a Ftr1/Wiz30 and a Ftr30/Wiz1)
Straploknight 06-21-03, 06:38 PM	Zak was a 24th level fighter, the best in Menzo at the time. However due to his current physical condition, he can only be brought back by a wish.
SirUrza 06-21-03, 09:44 PM	I'd put Dove pretty high up there, same with Storm.. maybe not as high as Dove. Swordwomen count right? :)
ElGrecoETAC 06-22-03, 03:01 AM	While Shurrupak does have more levels, I would say the best LIVING swordsman/fighter (as per the thread's name) is the Duke Eltan of Baldur's Gate. Shurrupak is more experienced, but he is also described as being completely insane. While one might debate whether different forms of insanity would hinder or enhance one's fighting ability, I don't think it's unfair to assume the former, rather than the latter. Eltan is a highly experienced PURE fighter, who in 2E had almost every magical item/weapon a 20th-level fighter could find handy. Shurrupak is unstable, and--if not metagamed or played unrealistically--not entirely likely to effectively bring to bear every combat trick he has learned.
Kornovus 06-23-03, 04:09 AM	Now that you mentioned the items. Which Items did Zaknafein use when he was still alive? +5 vorpal longswords or something powerful like that? I mean, if you put 2 20th level fighter against each other, with similar statistics and one has a lowly mundane longsword while the other one gets Shuruppaks sword (as seen in the epic level handbook), the outcome will be fairly clear. By the way - how is one supposed to imagine a 20th level fighter in action? Given the D&D Monsters such a guy is able to defeat, he would surpass Agent Smith, the guy from Hero and eg Blade in fighting ability with ease.
Kelrain 06-23-03, 06:17 AM	Originally posted by Kornovus By the way - how is one supposed to imagine a 20th level fighter in action? Given the D&D Monsters such a guy is able to defeat, he would surpass Agent Smith, the guy from Hero and eg Blade in fighting ability with ease. You see, past a certain point Fighters no longer get better, other fighters just get worse when fighting them.
Sculdar 06-23-03, 07:47 AM	If i remember his 2nd edition stats correctly Zak used two +5 adamantine longswords.... And another very powerful fighter would be The High Blade of Mulmaster, dont know his name exactly..(Selepharim Mulophor ? :) ) or something. The one that is also a member of the Zhentarim...Ftr20/Rog2 if i am not mistaken (Neither Lords of Darkness nor FRCS at hand right now....).
ElGrecoETAC 06-23-03, 08:33 AM	Zak did indeed have twin +5 longswords (NOT Vorpal), +5 chainmail, and his whip may have been special. I can't remember for sure because my books are all stateside, but wasn't it a [i[metal[/i] whip? His items would actually benefit in 3E, not being subject to the disintegration rules anymore (correct?). Selfaril was a lvl 20 Fighter/lvl 2 Ranger. Not "shabby" at all, and certainly not the sort of guy who rules by sitting on his posterior to be sure... :razz: But living? Unless I saw a detailed item list for Selfaril, I'm sticking with Eltan. He's so well equipped, is a master tactician, highly intelligent and wise, and 100% in possession of all his mental and physical facilities. Unlike Shurrupak... ;)
Maskanodel 06-23-03, 09:13 AM	I just gave Zak +5 keen longswords and +5 elven chain because I thought a weaponmaster deserved better gear. I know some will say "better then +5?", but its just how I feel. And since were on the topic of sworsman, was anything ever written about Tarnheel Embuirhan? He was the Lord of Mintarn during Passage to Dawn and if I recall, Drizzt had to fight him in order to get the map to Caerwich. Apparently Lord Tarnheel was a swordsman of no small reputation. Has he appeared in any other novels or game products?
Ozar 06-23-03, 12:50 PM	Originally posted by Maskanodel snip Passage to Dawn snip Drizzt *snip You know, I think I'm just going to stop visiting these forums until I'm done reading all of these books. I am getting sick and tired of running into unmarked spoilers. Oh well, at least you didn't write a review with every single plot twist and major event included. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/034544423X/qid=1056386951/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-7880336-9966527?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
Maskanodel 06-23-03, 01:06 PM	Sorry about that Ozar. I should've included a spoiler warning, but truth be told, I spoiled a minor detail. The part from Passage to Dawn that I was talkng about is a very small part of the story. All in all I, I think it takes about 2 pages in the book. But a spoiler is still a spoiler so I edited my post to include a spoiler warning.
ysrgrathe 06-24-03, 09:36 AM	My vote is on shuruppak, mainly because attack bonuses go up the same after lvl 20. (+1 at 21 and every odd lvl thereafter), so having weak bab classes like wizard and rogue is irrelevant at this point. Plus the equipment he has is quite imporessive. But i don't know this ftr 25/wiz 19 guy, he sounds hard as nails, he might be better. dunno