Post/Author/DateTime	Post
captaincarot 06-28-07, 04:46 AM	i have recently developed an npc dwarf expert. who i have placed in battledale, now, his life has taken him from citadel adbar to lantan via the sword coast, back through calimshan, and finally after a long and winding path to the temple of gond in essembra and he's studied with the elves of cormanthor. now considering this guy has spent nigh on 200 years being obsessive about crafting arms and armour. he's been trained by dwarves, gondsmen, elves, humans and developed the odd bit of crafting expertise himself. i would think with a crafting skill of close to +40, that he would be able to produce masterwork quality items which are just that bit better. i was thinking of giving his creations special status, such as +1 on hardness and a couple of extra hit points on top of the normal masterwork benefits, just to show that he is so good. now my question is, is there, has there been any rules precedent set anywhere for items created like this and if so where would i find them.
The Last Guardian 06-28-07, 12:32 PM	We've been toying with this idea in my gaming circle as well. There is no difference between getting something crafted from a human, dwarf or elf. We wanted to reflect the flavour of Dwarven and Elven superior craftmanship. So we were thinking of giving Dwarf non-caster crafters the ability to make +1 to +5 weapons and armor (though no abilties, that would require a caster to craft). For elves we went with wonderous items, non-caster could craft resistence bonus to cloaks and any of the +2, +4 & +6 ability score items. The level each could craft would be based on their dice (though we haven't figured that out just yet, the idea is still fresh on the drawing board). Hope this is useful.
MarkusTay63 06-28-07, 12:40 PM	I use both Mastercrafted and Masterworked. Mastercrafted is from D20 Modern and in that setting it means the same as Masterwork. However, I found a little town in the Wastes that produces leather that gives the same bonuses. That means that if a Master took it and created a Masterwork item out of it, say a leather jerkin, it would have DOUBLE bonuses. So now I apply the term 'Mastercrafted' to the use of 'Masterworked Materials' in an item. So, the same would apply to a weapon or anything else. In the Thieves World setting, there is a group that produces Enlibar Steel, which is a much better, higher grade metal then what is commonly available. Since I have a group of dwarves in MY FR game (Enlibar Dwarves) that produces this, I consider the metal 'Mastercrafted'. Someone could buy it and then have a Masterworked item created out of it. You could do the same for your dwarf, saying he is an expert at preparing alloys that go into his wares, so that he can apply both the mastercrafted and masterworked bonuses (in other words, double bonuses). Hope that helps.
captaincarot 06-28-07, 12:58 PM	that's sort of along my lines of thinking. his vast experience of different smithing techniques garnered from studying with master craftsment from just about every renowned race combined with producing various alloys of steel means that he can produce some thing that's just that bit more special. his back story is coming along nicely as well. so if anyone ever happens to be in essembra and meets a dwarven smith with a stuffed mule in his smithy that has adamantine dentures, you know you've met thorven crownshield. i'm going to put him up on here in the census of the realms thread once i've finished writing his story.
dragonheart 06-29-07, 08:15 AM	the masterwork and master crafted idea works well for this. For a masdter like this one I would suspect taht he only does masterwork/mastercrafted items at this point (and gets top dollar for them as well) this mean making unussually good items or items fromunusual materials. Now that I'm free for the summer I'm going to be ressurecting my post on real and fantasy metals and materials which should give you lots of stuff for thorvald to work with. Once you have stated I may just move him northward - in my campaign Teshendale is free of Zhentarim control (in fact it now controls both Zhentil Keep and Hillsfar) and a haven for smiths and artificers.
MerrikCale 06-29-07, 10:35 PM	I just call 'em MerrikCaleish
XHereticX 06-29-07, 11:00 PM	I just call 'em MerrikCaleish Nah, that is Poorly Crafted Weapons you poor deluded fool:P
lavekkia 07-01-07, 07:10 PM	Just let the Masterwork quality stack with itself Obviously the Craft DC would also stack. Cap bonuses when you reach the same bonuses given by the Weapon Focus feat tree
Lord_Madrigan 07-01-07, 09:23 PM	The Wheel of Time RPG had Rules for masterpiece Items I think something around the lines of this, Masterpiece Weapons add +2 to hit at a cost of +600 gp. Masterpiece Armor reduces the ACP by 2 at a cost of +300 gp. I may be wrong though and I have no Craft DC's. Find the Book for Final answer on this or use lavekkia's Idea
MarkusTay63 07-01-07, 09:26 PM	Mastercrafted Masterworked Masterpiece. Now we have three levels to shoot for. ;)
Stigger 07-02-07, 07:49 AM	Didn't DMG2 give templates for items like that? Could be hallucinating a dwarven one maybe, but I'm pretty sure it gave stats for several 'x-craft' items.
MerrikCale 07-03-07, 10:02 PM	Mastercrafted Masterworked Masterpiece. Now we have three levels to shoot for. ;) Are you Master of your own domain?
Jewelprotector 07-07-07, 02:52 PM	The Black Company setting (Green Ronin) has rules for varying degrees of "mastercraft." Unfortunately, I loaned my book out, so I can't give the specifics, but basically for every 5 points your Craft check exceeds the DC, an additional bonus is added. You can pick the various enhancements, such as "Sharp" (+1 to damage rolls) for a blade, or "Threatening" (+2 to Intimidation checks) for armor, a robe, or a mask. The Black Company is d20, so there should be no problem adding these rules to your campaign if you like them. I'd be happy to provide them when I get my book back.
dragonheart 07-07-07, 04:41 PM	realistically I have a problem of sorts wiht going beyond the basic +1 to hit for masterwork. - this is supposed to represent the best that is possible with the material and craft expertise. I use the scale below to rate craftsmen: max skill level craftman level types of things done 5 apprentice basic welding, hammering, horseshoes 10 Journeyman standard level chainmail, general work 15 mastercraftsman masterwork - basic steel materials 20 craftmaster masterwork basic and alloy steels 25 craft master II masterwork - mithril 30 craft master III masterwork - admantite alloys 35 craft master IV masterwork - rare materials and alloys beyond that I don't really see anyone but maybe elves going simply because of the time needed to gain any more levels as an artisan - even here most of these would probably be ex adventurers who put a couple of points each level into their craft as they adventured and then finally retired after having qworked wiht many smiths in many places between adventures - which can make for some interesting role play if its a PC we are talking about - or interesting background if its an NPC ( nothing like discovering too late that not only is the elven weaponsmith your angry with the only one in 500 miles that can make your sword but they are also a better fighter than you and a better mage than the party's wizard :D
captaincarot 07-08-07, 03:47 AM	he's an expert 10, fighter3, rogue2, with his skill ranks, skill focus feats dwarven abilities, and crafting based magical items (hammer of the weaponsmith and tongues of the armourer. his 2 primary craft skills weapons and armour are +37. so he's not far off the top of your list. he's thereto add colour and a bit of background and a dwarf smith for me to have fun with.:D
MarkusTay63 07-08-07, 03:38 PM	Vew Feat: Call of the Nidavellir Prerequisite: Must be a Dwarf and have at least four ranks in one smithing profession. By taking this feat, a Dwarf characters gets to effectively multiply his skill lev by 1.5 for any check relating to any smithing skill. For time immemorial, certain members of the Dwarven race have demonstrated a natural talent for creating wonderous weapons and armor, and sometimes jewelry. These Dwarves, blessed by Moradin, are sometimes referred to as "Soulforgers", because creation is part of their spirit.
dragonheart 07-08-07, 04:02 PM	he's an expert 10, fighter3, rogue2, with his skill ranks, skill focus feats dwarven abilities, and crafting based magical items (hammer of the weaponsmith and tongues of the armourer. his 2 primary craft skills weapons and armour are +37. so he's not far off the top of your list. he's thereto add colour and a bit of background and a dwarf smith for me to have fun with.:D so basically make him a true expert - A crochety "old" dwarf that does nothing but work in mithril, admantite and rarer materials and alloys, does only masterwork, and is backlogged with archwizard's requests - all at hefty fees. what are you (the PCs) going to do for him to get your job moved to the front of list of orders? oh the otehr thing you might do - check out the magic item compendium they have a large variety of enhancements to weapons and armour - many that require only (or mostly) a financial cost (that is they cost only GP to get and not any of the precious 10 "enhancement slots" for non-epic items. have him able to create/add most of these to items.
DrowBattlemind 07-08-07, 10:44 PM	Mastercrafted Masterworked Masterpiece. Now we have three levels to shoot for. ;) If the DM allows non-WotC supplements, Mongoose Publishing's "Quintessential Barbarian" book adds "Peerless" to that list. Peerless weapons and armor have the following bonuses: Armor: +1 AC, and -2 to the standard Armor Check Penalty Weapons: +2 to attacks, +1 to damage These bonuses do NOT stack with magical bonuses, the whole peerless feature is to make up the difference in magic-poor or low magic campaigns (or campaigns where the DM's being just plain stingy with magic treasures.) Plus, this gives something for Samurai or Kensai characters to get in the treasure dividends so that they feel less short-changed (especially compared to Ralph the Fighter, and his +4 Bastard Sword of Shocking Burst and Troll Bane.)
Kessalin Talira 07-11-07, 07:02 AM	The latest issue of Dragon has an article about this exact topic. You might want to pick it up. IIRC, it's written by someone from Green Ronin, too. The "Razor Sharp" property is in there, as Jewelprotector mentioned, and gives a +1 to damage rolls. There are several others too.
Soltares 07-11-07, 10:06 AM	Arcana Unearthed had a weapon property called 'dire,' that represented a heavily modified version of a regular weapon that had a +2 damage bonus. It was both expensive and required an exotic proficiency feat (only two total EWPs, one for all light finessable dire weapons and one for heavier 'dire' weapons). Instead of just making the weapon out of special material, the crafting represented making weapons with special chopping blades or weighted ends or whatever, more like the sort of fantastic weaponry often depicted in fantasy art. IMO, it went a little overboard, and I'm not really into the anime-fication of D&D weaponry and armor, so I used a weaker version. +1 damage bonus, no feat required, just extra expense. I also considered allowing someone with the Craft (weaponsmithing) skill to spend some time and make a DC (whatever) check to add a one-time +1 damage to an edged weapon by sharpening it to within an inch of it's life (for a single hit, having to resharpen it afterwards, and risking damaging the weapon if he blows this special Craft check, as he grinds away too much of the blade for it to be as effective as before!). Sort of like the Drusus mechanic from the 2e Complete Warriors Handbook.
hawkinsthedm 07-11-07, 12:13 PM	You might check out the Master Smith PrC in Magic of Rokugan. All of their d20 non-intellectual material is supposed to be open-source, so I am not sure if I can post it here or not.
MarkusTay63 07-11-07, 05:26 PM	As long as you're not trying to make money off of it, then it's Okay. So go for it. :D
GeneticChaos 07-11-07, 05:54 PM	Didn't DMG2 give templates for items like that? Could be hallucinating a dwarven one maybe, but I'm pretty sure it gave stats for several 'x-craft' items. That is the "dwarvencraft" quality from Races of Stone. It gives items +2 hardness, 10 extra hitpoints and +2 on saving throws.
hawkinsthedm 07-11-07, 05:58 PM	Um, this probably sounds stupid, but how does one go about creating the "tables" for displaying a Class or PrC? I am not all that HTML savvy.
hawkinsthedm 07-13-07, 02:45 PM	Okay, no help with tables so here we go: Master Smith PrC (from Magic of Rokugan) Requirements: Skills: Craft (armorer) 10 ranks, Craft (weaponsmith) 10 ranks, Knowledge (elements) 5 ranks. Feats: Skill Focus in any Craft skill. Special: Must craft a katana and wakizashi of masterwork quality. Must possess the ancestral daisho class ability. Class Skills Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha). Hit Die: d8 Base Attack Bonus: As Cleric Fort/Ref/Will: High/Low/High Level: Special 1: Fine Craftsman 2: Exceptional Craftsman 3: Superior Craftsman 4: Legendary Craftsman 5: Craft Magical Arms and Armor 6: Temper the Blade 7: Awakened Soul 8: Powerful Soul 9: Master's Soul 10: Reawaken the Blade Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple and martial weapons. Light and medium armor but not shields. Fine Craftsman: At 1st level, the master smith can now craft weapons, armor, tools, and items out of fine Rokugani steel (See below). With a successful skill check of the appropriate Craft type (DC 15) once per day he can craft up to 250 gp of materials per day, and otherwise follows the rules for making magic items. He must spend at least 8 hrs per day working on the item and cannot take a day off. He cannot create more than one item at this enhanced rate, no matter the cost. No experience points are expended when the smith craft non-magical items, but he must provide materials worth half the items market price. Exceptional Craftsman: At 2nd level, the master smith can now the master smith can now craft weapons, armor, tools, and items out of excellent Rokugani steel (See below). With a successful skill check of the appropriate Craft type (DC 20) once per day he can craft up to 500 gp of materials per day. This ability is otherwise identical to the Fine Craftsman ability. Superior Craftsman: At 3rd level, the master smith can now the master smith can now craft weapons, armor, tools, and items out of superior Rokugani steel (See below). With a successful skill check of the appropriate Craft type (DC 20) once per day he can craft up to 500 gp of materials per day. This ability is otherwise identical to the Fine Craftsman ability. Legendary Craftsman: At 4th level, the master smith can now the master smith can now craft weapons, armor, tools, and items out of legendary Rokugani steel (See below). With a successful skill check of the appropriate Craft type (DC 30) once per day he can craft up to 1,000 gp of materials per day. This ability is otherwise identical to the Fine Craftsman ability. Craft Magical Arms and Armor: At 5th level, the master smith gains Craft Magical Arms and Armor as a bonus feat, even if he does not have any spellcaster levels. He is considered a caster of twice his master smith level for the purpose of crafting magical arms and armor. These effective levels stack with any spellcaster levels he may have for this purpose. Unless he has spellcaster abilities, he will require the presence of a spellcaster to supply the necessary spells to craft certain types of weapons and armor. Temper the Blade: At 6th level, the master smith can reforge a normal weapon or armor as a masterwork weapon or armor. A masterwork item can be improved to the quality of fine Rokugani steel. Items of high quality Rokugani steel can be improved to whatever higher level of quality the smith can normally produce. The smith must expend raw materials equal to one half the difference between the item's original market price and the market price of the final product. Awakened Soul: At 7th level, the master smith may select a number of weapon or armor special abilities equal to his Intelligence modifier, non of which may have an enhancement bonus higher than +1. Thereafter he may create items with these abilities without the requisite spells or feats. Powerful Soul: At 8th level, the master smith may select a number of weapon or armor special abilities equal to his Intelligence modifier, non of which may have an enhancement bonus higher than +3. Thereafter he may create items with these abilities without the requisite spells or feats. Master's Soul: At 9th level, the master smith may select a number of weapon or armor special abilities equal to his Intelligence modifier, non of which may have an enhancement bonus higher than +5. Thereafter he may create items with these abilities without the requisite spells or feats. True Master: At 10th level, when determining the cost in XP and materials for creating magical weapons and armor, the master smith multiplies the base price by 75%. If the master smith also has the Magical Artisan feat (Oriental Adventures) and has applied it to toward Craft Magical Arms and Armor, he instead multiplies the base price by 50%. Rokugani Steel Quality/Enhan. Bonus/Add. Wpn Cost/Add. Armor Cost/Hardness/HP per Inch Fine/+1/1,500 gp/500 gp/10/30 Excellent/+2/7,000 gp/3,000 gp/15/30 Superior/+3/16,000 gp/8,000 gp/20/30 Legendary/+4/30,000 gp/15,000 gp/20/35 Since this is definitely written with a L5R flavor, it needs help. but I think it could work for making dwarven/elven steel, et cetera. --Hawkins