Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Legion16 04-03-07, 02:18 AM	Okay. Here's the drill. I need advice on how to take down an Ancient blue dragon with a serious mad-on, and I need to do it using a fairly young vampire spawn with 7 levels of wizard. If I can pull this one off, she might just survive long enough to clean out a dungeon that's mostly inhabited by demons. She's already been clobbered by the Mature Adult Red dragon (which she finally beat through a series of VERY lucky rolls, and a rather nasty incident involving two bottles of lamp oil in her sack.) I need options, gang. She's by herself on this one, as her servant was killed two towns back by an angry mob. Her domination gaze will be of no help either. Dragon's will save bonus is WAY to high for that to work.
Armedes 04-03-07, 09:30 AM	Where is the fight? I'm going to assume you have some spells to make you resistant to Electricity. Use those, keep to small area's where you can hit and run.. slowly bring its hit points down, you have fast healing, it does not. Dragons have Blind sense so sneaking up on it will be very difficult and i believe your gaze does not effect monsters. Its reflex saves are the worst.. Blast move, hide, Heal up, Rinse repeat.. Being a wizard you to hit will be very low so use touch based or area of effect spells against it.. If there are any other creatures in the area try and get them to help.. fodder is fodder. even if you lie to them and day you'll split the treasure, etc..
ShadezofDis 04-03-07, 10:25 AM	Ummm. . . try and collapse the lair on the dragon? Seriously, you shouldn't be able to beat this dragon, even at your cleverest the dragon should wipe the floor with you. I'd say beat feet and come back in 10 levels.
Borris 04-03-07, 10:42 PM	Unless you have lots of orbs spells, blasting won't do you any good. An Ancient Blue Dragon has a spell resistance of 27. As a 7th-level wizard, your chances to beat that are nearly inexistant. You'd be better trying your Dominate gaze every round until you're forced to flee. With a little luck, it'll roll a natural 1 before you're forced to float back to your coffin.
Legion16 04-03-07, 11:31 PM	I was afraid of that. The hit it with domination thing was how I beat the red, and HE was wiping the floor with me up until that point. Hazards of being my own DM. I put myself into worse situations than most other DMs would. As I said before, even if I defeat the second dragon (which is looking really unlikely) I still have to clean out the demon infestation. There's like 16 different demons in the rooms beyond the dragon dens. Have to get past the big scalies to get beyond the first two rooms. Nasty set of guard dogs, ain't they?
Derren S. 04-04-07, 08:45 AM	I was afraid of that. The hit it with domination thing was how I beat the red, and HE was wiping the floor with me up until that point. That wouldn't have worked unless you have Dominate Monster (9th level spell). A dragon is not a person and not affected by the dominating gaze of vampire spawns.
BrennonGoldeye 04-04-07, 10:18 AM	That wouldn't have worked unless you have Dominate Monster (9th level spell). A dragon is not a person and not affected by the dominating gaze of vampire spawns. Ah, unless the spawn was of draconic heritage....ok, maybe not...but seems feasible to me. Of course I'm Captain Feasible.;)
Critalondel 04-04-07, 10:19 AM	Dominate a bunch of other people into helpin' ya? *shrugs* Or ask around for some legendary Dragonslayer, and dominate him into helpin'?
ShadezofDis 04-04-07, 10:27 AM	Or, and I think this is the best plan, run away. When you have several more levels and a LOT more minions, THEN take on the dragon, otherwise you're just in for a world of pain.
Ramenth 04-04-07, 04:02 PM	Ask the dragon if he'll let you by nicely? Or offer him a percentage of the take from the demon-filled-dungeon.
Derren S. 04-04-07, 06:05 PM	Considering the lawful alignment of blue dragons its rather unlikely that this will work. I see only 2 solutions. 1. Run away 2. Trust your DM to provide you with a way to defeat the dragon.
Bonzai 04-07-07, 04:53 PM	Gaseous form and go down his nose to his lungs, materialize, start using the blood drain attack from the inside. It's not like you can suffocate, and I believe you should have ample room to work. Dragons generally inhale sharply before they use their breath weapon, and that would be your best chance. As it inhales, you should be quickly sucked down into it's lungs, where you transform (keeping you from being exhaled), and start biting down and hanging on to whatever you can grab.
Derren S. 04-07-07, 05:49 PM	You do not have the space to revert back to your material form inside the dragon and generally going inside a creature is impossible except for swallowing. I really hate it when people post such cheap tactics which don't even work.
Bonzai 04-08-07, 01:10 AM	How big are the lungs of an ancient blue dragon? I am willing to bet that a human could fit inside them. However, you could also allow yourself to be swallowed as well. Then materialize, use the blood drain attack, which should hopefully help you keep pace with whatever digestive acids it has. If it doesn't, then you can always turn back into gaseous form, allow your fast healing to heal you up, and repeat. Again, as an undead you are in no danger of suffocation. As far as cheap tactics... What other kind can be used when piting an lvl 7 Wizard Vampire Spawn against an ancient blue dragon? Is he supposed to slap it across the snout and challenge it to an honorable duel? My first vote would be to gaseous form past it and leave it alone, but evidently this isn't an option. So if I had to fight it, I would focus on my strengths and this is what comes to mind.
Derren S. 04-08-07, 04:02 AM	Dragons do not have the swallow ability and the lungs are only as big as they need to be. And as you can't turn corporal in the dragons turn it can simply exhale you as that are normal lung function (and probably deal massive damage to you as you are in teh middle of a breath weapon).
ShadezofDis 04-08-07, 07:11 PM	Derren, Care to state the sources you came up with this from? Is it Dragons of Faerun? The Draconomicon? I'm pretty curious. Bonzai, Clever. I haven't looked through the above books to see if I could find any reason for it not to work. . . but off the top of my head I don't really see why it wouldn't. . . hmm. . . maybe Liber Mortis goes over what a Vampire can do in terms of gaseous form. I'd check the two dragon books and Liber Mortis before making a ruling on it.
Armedes 04-08-07, 07:15 PM	Lungs are Not just empty, they have broci, capalaries (sp?) not enough room for the Vampire to Reform.. The down the Gullet.. now that is a possiblity.. so the stomach is all you could really do..
Derren S. 04-08-07, 07:21 PM	Wait, now I have to explain why a creature does not have a certain special ability? Look into the MM. Do you see "Swallow Whole" as special ability? No, so being swallowed is not an option. The rest is common sense and biology. Lungs are only as big as they need to be and by increasing their size they inhale air. By pressing them together you exhale. So lungs are not automatically big enough for a creature. And unless the dragon inhales you voluntary you can't go inside the lungs while in gaseous form because you can't ready an action to turn gasoues when the dragon inhales and an action to turn corporal when you are inside the lungs as you are exhaled immediatly again (breathing takes no action). Besides the general tone in D&D is that you can't go inside other creatures unless in very special circumstances.
ShadezofDis 04-08-07, 07:48 PM	Wait, now I have to explain why a creature does not have a certain special ability? Look into the MM. Do you see "Swallow Whole" as special ability? No, so being swallowed is not an option. So you are trying to say that dragons can't swallow anything? Or are you saying that they can't swallow a vampire? Or a humanoid? Or is it a gaseous cloud you don't think it could swallow? Cause Dragons do eat, so they do swallow things. Ancient Blue Dragons are Gargantuan size, that's about 64 feet long from nose to base of tail. That would make for some decent sized lungs, typically speaking, most creatures chest volume is taken up by lungs. If this holds true for Dragons then it's very possible that a vampire could fit in the lungs. Now I'm not sure if a Vampire can do that. I'd check under gaseous form, vampire in MM and liber mortis. I wouldn't just make up an opinion and post it like fact.
Zevox 04-08-07, 07:57 PM	An ECL 15 creature vs a CR 21 Dragon? I'd say either pull something like Bonzai's stunt, or start praying, because you'll be meeting your deity very soon. Zevox
redmagefish 04-08-07, 08:20 PM	this is a blue dragons have thing like fire shield,find the hidden,call for help other dragon folk like half dragon things.defelct akt. poitons that will change this breathe akt or add flames,ice,darkness,acid to it. poitons of cure all wounds. so i would leave
Brenigin 04-09-07, 02:22 AM	Lungs aren't an empty space, they are more like a loofah.
Bonzai 04-09-07, 09:55 AM	Basicly it boils down to a DM call. If your DM is pitting you against these kinds of CR's then he should be willing to be a little lenient. The lungs could be iffy (getting inhaled isn't the problem. He could always dominate something to get the Dragon to use his breath weapon, ready an action to materialize once inhaled, and be hovering around the dragons head, perferably with a fog spell as cover). Still there should be no arguement about the stomach. A good DM will figure a resonable amount of damage you would take from stomach acid, and possibly some bludgeoning damage (stomach muscles constricting), and you can try to kreep pace for as long as you can with your blood drain attack.