Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 01-22-08, 01:43 AM	This is going to be only slightly tongue in cheek. But yes, I had an interesting thought about what a comic book editor said "Every character is someone's favorite and when you kill one of those, you kill someone's favorite." I was thinking about that when I wondered "Do I have any places in the Realms that I don't think anyone else cares about yet are instrically important to my games." I thought about it for a long time. Oh wait, :censored: Bloodstone. I remembered how shocked I was when they introduced Bloodstone 'back' into the Realms with Promise of the Witch King because, to be honest, it was pretty much how I'd always run it. The :censored: crack of the universe. Is there any WORSE place in the entirety of the world than the Ice, Undead, and Horror Ridden Lands of Bloodstone? The place where Velsharoon is considered a perfectly normal deity and everyone worships Ilmater or Kelemvor because the other good deities come off as creepilly cheerful? Good God, man! What kind of effect would this have on my games!? Gareth Dragonsbane, the Fallen Paladin of Ilmater (I had that happen because of his genocide of Goblins in the Vaasa region), and his ridiculously overpowered company of superheroes were trying to redeem MY personal adventuring Hell-Hole! I mean, what happens if the place is....*shudder* redeemed? Gareth was on a mission of genocide and conquest throughout Vaasa in the last book series while attempting to unite his itty bitty unihabited nation with their itty bitty uninhabited nation. A hundred years is a long time as we can tell from 1900 to 2007 or 1800 to 1900 and so on in changes for America. For me, Damara was my own personal Realms-version of Transylvania and I hope that personal flavor is not going to be lost thanks to the "Points of Light" issue. Just because Gareth was an, allegedly, good King doesn't mean that the entire place should be transformed into another Cormyr. Let's face it; it's a frosty, icy, horrible location that's filled with monsters and remnants of the arguably greatest Lich in the Realms after Larloch. Plus, it used to be where Orcus himself hung his hat. If there was ever a place aligned with Shadowfell and a source for Tieflings, its this place. But of course, there's any number of possibilities in the Spell Plague. Gareth's kids could turn out to be more Mordred than Arthur. It's interesting to guess that I feel excited as well as dreading when I wonder how this region will be changed.
Lord Karsus 01-22-08, 09:18 AM	-The Bloodstone lands offer an interesting premise. Untamed, lawless, frozen frontierland.
DMD 01-22-08, 11:20 AM	Yes my campaign has finally landed there. I revamped the Bloodstone modules from 2Ed. Just starting the first one this friday. I am excited. My campaign was going to end there but I have one more adventure to run and then I am handing the DM reigns over to someone else for a while.
Khaelieth 01-22-08, 12:11 PM	DM'd there once, it's dark and cold. Tbh, I love them. I'm hoping for Mordred. And genocide of goblins isn't evil, it's helping Darwinism.
Charles Phipps 01-22-08, 03:16 PM	DM'd there once, it's dark and cold. Tbh, I love them. I'm hoping for Mordred. And genocide of goblins isn't evil, it's helping Darwinism. Bah, then we'll all end up weak like humans!
Khaelieth 01-22-08, 04:49 PM	Not necessarily, drow show that Darwinism's good for you!
Kenzuki 01-24-08, 05:28 PM	Personally I thought that Gareth's group of heroes were a bunch of arrogant a-holes. I was rooting for Artemis when he fought against that brute Olwen, he would have killed him if Kane and that wizard didn't gang up on him. Kane and Christine were especially annoying....They reminded me of Wulfgar on crack in terms of arrogance. I really started to wonder "Are Artemis and Jarlaxle really the bad guys here?"
Lord Karsus 01-24-08, 05:45 PM	I really started to wonder "Are Artemis and Jarlaxle really the bad guys here?" -That's probably what Salvatore was going for, especially in the "I rule through deed, I rule through blood" schtick.
Kenzuki 01-24-08, 06:46 PM	Aye, I enjoyed it enough. It was nice seeing a paladin king question himself on whether or not he's better than an assassin hehe.
Charles Phipps 01-24-08, 06:56 PM	Of course, he never questioned the fact he was committing ethnic cleansing. Ugh.
Kenzuki 01-24-08, 07:02 PM	I also felt sorry for Artemis. Drizzt might have had it bad growing up in Menzo, but Artemis had it rough too. He also showed you what a real man does to a woman who betrays him. Throw her out the window naked.:D
Khaelieth 01-24-08, 07:58 PM	Of course, he never questioned the fact he was committing ethnic cleansing. Ugh. Racial cleansing.
Lord Karsus 01-25-08, 08:45 AM	Racial cleansing. -Not even. Would you consider killing the pests in a farm racial cleansing?
Kenzuki 01-25-08, 05:51 PM	Goblins and orcs are a little different than rats and stuff.
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 05:53 PM	I see we're having a meeting of R.A. Salvatore's CCC here. ;-) But yes, honestly, I wish in the opening of the Orc King one of the 'murderers' had shouted "I'm just doing it for the EXP!"
Lord Karsus 01-25-08, 05:57 PM	Goblins and orcs are a little different than rats and stuff. -Yeah, they are Medium sized. ;)
Kenzuki 01-25-08, 05:59 PM	-Yeah, they are Medium sized. ;) They are people. So yeah it is racial cleansing.
Lord Karsus 01-25-08, 06:00 PM	They are people. So yeah it is racial cleansing. -No, Orcs are Orcs, and Goblins are Goblins. They are animals.
Kenzuki 01-25-08, 06:03 PM	-No, Orcs are Orcs, and Goblins are Goblins. They are animals. So by making them animals, one justifies the genocide right?
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 06:13 PM	So by making them animals, one justifies the genocide right? Dalek voice: THIS IS NOT WAR, THIS IS PEST CONTROL!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 08:40 PM	-No, Orcs are Orcs, and Goblins are Goblins. They are animals. They could be put in a zoo!
XHereticX 01-25-08, 09:00 PM	They could be put in a zoo! Now that's a little inhumane don't you think? Aren't we moving towards racial equality in the Realm with 4e?;)
Meldread 01-25-08, 09:09 PM	Lord Karsus has revealed himself as a card-carrying member of the CCC! Look! I think I see his sheet! ;)
XHereticX 01-25-08, 09:10 PM	Lord Karsus has revealed himself as a card-carrying member of the CCC! Look! I think I see his sheet! ;) CCC...last I recall Lord Karsus does not study at Cormyr Community College:)
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 09:12 PM	Honestly, if I removed the CCC initials, my players would probably jump at the chance. "So, basically, it's a society devoted to slaughtering orcs. OKAY!" "I've been unknowingly a part of this organization all my life!"
GreenKnight 01-25-08, 09:22 PM	They could be put in a zoo! http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137974/folders/278025/2274475Taylor.jpg "IT'S A MADHOUSE! A MADHOUSE!!!"
XHereticX 01-25-08, 09:28 PM	http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137974/folders/278025/2274475Taylor.jpg "IT'S A MADHOUSE! A MADHOUSE!!!" "It's a madhouse Or so they claim It's a madhouse Oh, am I insane?" Anthrax for the win:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-25-08, 09:31 PM	Putting these animals into a zoo would not be cruel. It would be a zoo where all the animals were treated with kindness and love. And food.:)
XHereticX 01-25-08, 09:37 PM	Putting these animals into a zoo would not be cruel. It would be a zoo where all the animals were treated with kindness and love. And food.:) Obould Many-Arrows would beg to differ:P
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 09:40 PM	The Kingdom of Many Arrows won't be complete until we get a Sexy Half-Orc Female Assassin and a time when they invaded the Realms with huge numbers of summoned demons only to reveal they were being manipulated all along.
XHereticX 01-25-08, 09:42 PM	The Kingdom of Many Arrows won't be complete until we get a Sexy Half-Orc Female Assassin and a time when they invaded the Realms with huge numbers of summoned demons only to reveal they were being manipulated all along. For some reason the words sexy and orc never seem to click together in my mind. Being half-orc is like being half-porcine:eek:
Charles Phipps 01-25-08, 09:48 PM	For some reason the words sexy and orc never seem to click together in my mind. Being half-orc is like being half-porcine:eek: In my games, it's a standing rule that Orcs are not naturally ugly anymore than Dwarves are. They just have tremendously low charisma. I was always like Peter Jackson (who saw them as dessicated elves) in that I tended to see Orcs as something more like Cavemen than I did Gammoreans. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/nikildun/WoW/female_orc_render.png I actually made it a joke where some Orcs worshiped Sune and ended up looking like the Orions from Star Trek.
XHereticX 01-25-08, 09:58 PM	In my games, it's a standing rule that Orcs are not naturally ugly anymore than Dwarves are. They just have tremendously low charisma. I was always like Peter Jackson (who saw them as dessicated elves) in that I tended to see Orcs as something more like Cavemen than I did Gammoreans. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/nikildun/WoW/female_orc_render.png I actually made it a joke where some Orcs worshiped Sune and ended up looking like the Orions from Star Trek. Orcs in D&D I have always seen as a half-breed race between pigs and gorillas that had no hope of beauty. Warcraft orcs on the other hand, I just see as green-skinned, alien humanoids that can vary highly in appearance.
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 08:55 AM	Lord Karsus has revealed himself as a card-carrying member of the CCC! Look! I think I see his sheet! ;) -Not the CCC. They are posers. I am a card-carrying member of the Eldreth Veluuthra, however. My card actually expired last century, now that I think about it. I need to give Lossarym a call, and get that renewed. CCC...last I recall Lord Karsus does not study at Cormyr Community College:) -No, I never went to Cormyr Community College, but oddly enough, in High School, I got college equivalent credits from a class sponsored by Kingsboro Community College (KCC). So, go figure. :cool:
XHereticX 01-26-08, 09:44 AM	-Not the CCC. They are posers. I am a card-carrying member of the Eldreth Veluuthra, however. My card actually expired last century, now that I think about it. I need to give Lossarym a call, and get that renewed. Hmm, I wonder what the Eldreth Veluuthra would say if they found out that you were actually a human pretending to be an elf:cool:
Zanan 01-26-08, 09:49 AM	Did they note recently state that Vaasa (i.e. Bloodstone lands) is going to be home to some thing demonish, some thing to which many warlocks are drawn. My bottom dollar is on Orcus coming back there, which would simply be taking one more biscuit, after Spellplague and the Deiicide.
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 10:19 AM	Hmm, I wonder what the Eldreth Veluuthra would say if they found out that you were actually a human pretending to be an elf:cool: -I'm not a Human. KtM is the Human aspect. I've the Sun Elf aspect. Our lost third is the Beholder Mage aspect. It's complicated- don't worry about it. ;)
MarkusTay63 01-26-08, 12:42 PM	For some reason the words sexy and orc never seem to click together in my mind. http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs21/i/2007/235/7/6/WoW___Orc_Female_by_DiosaWoW.jpg Why not? ;)
XHereticX 01-26-08, 01:27 PM	If that's your definition of sexy, then I would prefer not to know your other fetishes...:eek:
Fabius Maximus 01-26-08, 01:28 PM	http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs21/i/2007/235/7/6/WoW___Orc_Female_by_DiosaWoW.jpg Why not? ;) That's no orc. She's got not enough hair and her teeth aren't long enough. That's really an orion woman.
MarkusTay63 01-26-08, 03:01 PM	True, the artist did make her a little prettier then she should have been, but the body-type is fairly accurate for a WoW Orc. ;) Can't find a good pic for a face (they have much tinier 'tusks' then the males) http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Orc_Rogue.png Would you prefer this? I love that 'baby spice' look, its the same one that SS gave to the Crinti. :P
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 03:17 PM	I consider only the Tusks, Green Skin, and claws of the orc to be necessary.
Suin Bahhar 01-26-08, 04:12 PM	Did they note recently state that Vaasa (i.e. Bloodstone lands) is going to be home to some thing demonish, some thing to which many warlocks are drawn.And probably oodles of tieflings will prowl the area. So we need to be thinking of sexy tiefling assassins instead of female orcses! :P My bottom dollar is on Orcus coming back there, which would simply be taking one more biscuit, after Spellplague and the Deiicide.I sure dont hope so. He needs to be slain once and for all by Kiriansalee. (anywho in my campaign this'll happen)
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 04:19 PM	Well that won't e happening with Kiriansalee in the Realms. :-)
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 05:52 PM	Well that won't e happening with Kiriansalee in the Realms. :-) :rimshot:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 08:18 PM	Orcs in D&D I have always seen as a half-breed race between pigs and gorillas that had no hope of beauty. *thinks about the old Twilight Zone episode, "The Private World of Darkness"...*
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 08:24 PM	*thinks about the old Twilight Zone episode, "The Private World of Darkness"...* -Which one was that?
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 08:33 PM	But yes, in my campaign, King Gareth of Damara is now a LN Fallen Paladin of Ilmater and may be slowly moving towards LE so long as he continues to allow the persecution of Humanoids to continue underneath him. Unfortunately, he's such a mythic figure to many that none of his associates are noticing that he's become a figure obsessed with building a "Pure Blooded" Kingdom of Humans and other elves by exterminating the races that already exist there. Instead, Ilmater had hoped he'd convert the humanoid peoples to the religion of faith. Instead, all he's done is drive them ever further to hatred of the Goodly Gods.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 08:57 PM	-Which one was that? This one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Private_World_Of_Darkness) Beware though--I don't want to spoil you if you haven't seen it. It's a pretty unsettling look at the concept of beauty. "Number 12 Looks Just Like You" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_12_Looks_Just_Like_You) is another (quite similar) episode about beauty and conformity. I found it to be downright tragic.
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 09:07 PM	"Number 12 Looks Just Like You" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_12_Looks_Just_Like_You) is another (quite similar) episode about beauty and conformity. I found it to be downright tragic. -My sister listens to a band with that title. Cool.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 09:15 PM	-My sister listens to a band with that title. Cool. Heh. Anyway, check those episodes out if you have the chance, they are great.
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 09:24 PM	Here's a write-up regarding my Forgotten Realms handling of a certain race that everyone knows. Orcs Roughly 55% of all Adult Orcs are Chaotic Evil. They kill, fight, plunder, torture, enslave, and are generally unpleasant people but still love their families (unless they :censored: them off). Roughly, 30% of the remainder of Orc civilization is Chaotic Neutral. They're still a bunch of lawless :censored: that are eager to steal and kill in the name of Gruumsh but they're not especially sadistic about the whole deal. About 5% are Lawful Evil and they are primarilly those in the service of Zhentil Keep while worshiping Bane instead of Gruumsh. The remaining 10% of Orc kind are the gamut of other alignments. Bluntly, there's nothing that really keeps a Neutral or Lawful Neutral Orc from functioning fine in Orc society other than he's likely to be frustrated with how lazy or stupid his fellow kind are. In my Forgotten Realms, Orcs are not really considered vermin inside civilized towns like those along the Sword Coast. While most people in the Heartlands are "shoot on sight", it's not unheard of to see Orcish Dock Workers or people otherwise living in fairly harmonius nature with the rest of the world. Now a lot of those Orcs in Westgate or Luskan might be inclined to join up with Pirate crews as often as legitimate labor but nothing to state "hang them on sight." Thus, you'll also see Ogres and other humanoids around the rougher places as well. Orcish children are another matter. Until Orcs reach adulthood, they tend towards Neutral and Chaotic Neutral behavior. There's nothing innately evil about Orcs or any of the other humanoid races in the Forgotten Realms. Thus, a person going to go slaughter Orcs is massacring a bunch of Neutral folk rather than evil ones.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 09:28 PM	Orcs are just animals. We've settled that.:)
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 09:28 PM	Orcish children are another matter. Until Orcs reach adulthood, they tend towards Neutral and Chaotic Neutral behavior. There's nothing innately evil about Orcs or any of the other humanoid races in the Forgotten Realms. Thus, a person going to go slaughter Orcs is massacring a bunch of Neutral folk rather than evil ones. -I'd politely disagree there. Being as that Gruumsh is a CE deity, and he created the Orcs, I think they'd be CE by virtue of nature. Same reason why Elves are CG, after being created by CG deities.
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 09:32 PM	-I'd politely disagree there. Being as that Gruumsh is a CE deity, and he created the Orcs, I think they'd be CE by virtue of nature. Same reason why Elves are CG, after being created by CG deities. Elven children are Neutral and tend towards Chaotic Neutrality as well. Dwarven children are Neutral and tend towards Lawful Neutrality. There are exceptions but, fundamentally, free will is something that exists in the Forgotten Realms and the ways of the patron gods must be taught rather than instilled inborn. It's something that simplifies matters tremendously at my games. The exceptions are Tieflings who can be Evil from childhood. I also think this is far removed from "Eberron" style moral ambiguity and sticks with the D&D canon.
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 09:33 PM	Orcs are just animals. We've settled that.:) Yes? Intelligent animals. Like Nobanion! http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1238/aslan4ef.jpg He's not a tame lion.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 09:33 PM	Orcs aren't truly evil because animals can't have an alignment.
XHereticX 01-26-08, 09:34 PM	Orcs aren't truly evil because animals can't have an alignment. The fiendish lion behind you says, "BAKA!":D
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 09:35 PM	The bit above is a bit funny.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-26-08, 09:35 PM	The fiendish lion behind you says, "BAKA!":D Orcs are not intelligent animals. I had thought we established that.:)
XHereticX 01-26-08, 09:36 PM	Orcs are not intelligent animals. I had thought we established that.:) Intelligent enough to avoid Karsus's bed, which is something I can't say for everyone here...
Charles Phipps 01-26-08, 09:39 PM	Orcs are not intelligent animals. I had thought we established that.:) That's silly. How do they sing then? Fifteen Birds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLVgGADHg60) Where there's a Whip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y) Towers of the Teeth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVgZDcUQPEY)
MarkusTay63 01-26-08, 09:40 PM	Hmmmm... All this talk of 'sleeping with Karsus' got me thinking... Maybe that 'stuff' that dribbled off the end of the flying city wasn't really "Heavy Magic" after all... maybe it was more like Karsus's... Hair Gel. :D
XHereticX 01-26-08, 09:43 PM	Maybe that 'stuff' that dribbled off the end of the flying city wasn't really "Heavy Magic" after all... maybe it was more like Karsus's... Hair Gel. :D :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: "no comment" "brain cells decaying"
Lord Karsus 01-26-08, 10:07 PM	Intelligent enough to avoid Karsus's bed, which is something I can't say for everyone here... -Geeze, if only I were this well liked in real life.
Zanan 01-27-08, 05:00 AM	Well that won't e happening with Kiriansalee in the Realms. :-) When Orcus can come back twice, so can the Revenancer. Obviously, the deus-ex-machina device used here was faulty ... and as long as they do not chop the Servant of the Fallen feat, there's every chance she will be back or some of her cultists run about chasing the Goatheaded. So far, we have no clue what will happen to the area, but given the fact that the Goatheaded faction has already planted their Lord's face on the Dungeons & Dragons MM ... :rolleyes:
Charles Phipps 01-28-08, 05:08 PM	Well Orcus IS awesome. I'm still debating whether or not to have Gareth fall in my campaigns. The actual issue is unresolved in canon, though I'm inclined to think that given Gareth has shown up as a hero in so many books that no one necessarilly wants to do him up as a Fallen Paladin despite being ostenibly Lawful Good. To quote Hinjo the Paladin "Atonement spells exist for a reason." I'm inclined to, however, make the hunting of Humanoids in Vaasa explictly evil *for my campaign* however because I tend to go with a sort of Justice League mentality rather than Conan the Hyborean Age. The player characters are expected to be, at least for the most part from my player's tendencies, fairly compassionate and decent people who judge people by their actions rather than their deeds. Part of this has to do with the fact the player characters include a Tiefling, a Half-Giant [Frost], a Half-Orc who was nearly lynched in his hometown of Shadowdale once, and a Naga. Really, it would come off as just *BAD STORYTELLING* in that campaign to have Orcs and company labelled as "They're just Evil Scum." Unlike, say, if everyone had been NORMAL and played humans/dwarves/elves. Basically, King Gareth is attempting to conquer another Kingdom (ostenibly to bring "law and order" to it) that he has no legal claim to. He's the hereditary King of Damaria but this is just a war of expansion....which isn't necessarilly evil. However, as Jarlaxle and Artemis prove, Gareth's mandate is utterly bogus in the Kingdom of Entreri. Frankly, there's no trial or state of war existing in Vaasa. It's Pest Control. The Goblins are just being hunted down and exterminated with Artemis and Jarlaxle not being asked whether it's an adult or child Goblin (one Ogre gets listed as a "Child Giant" wasn't it? I forget the details but it implies children also pay dividends). I think it humanizes Gareth that he's a typical adventurer and Humanoids are vermin.
DMD 01-28-08, 05:22 PM	I think Gareth views it as "defending his realm". So since Goblins and Orcs are a threat to traders passing through Bloodstone Pass he is looking to make it safer for those people. Plenty of wars are fought on foreign shores to defend the homeland.....
Kenzuki 01-28-08, 05:34 PM	Personally I would support King Artemis I.
Charles Phipps 01-28-08, 05:54 PM	Oh, I don't dispute that King Gareth has his reasons for the action and they're not somewhat justifiable ones. He's not a frothing racist or anything but he definitely seems to be thinking that the Kingdom of Vaasa will be far better off with a human population than a Non-Human one. Jarlaxle was right to point out the hypocrisy of a Human king eradicating Orcs to a predominantly Half-Orc populated city for "their own good."
Zanan 01-28-08, 05:57 PM	Well Orcus IS awesome. I knew there was something wrong with you! ;)
Charles Phipps 01-28-08, 06:09 PM	I knew there was something wrong with you! ;) One of the oddest campaigns was when the players acquired the Wand of Orcus and completely neglected to go on the Epic Quest to destroy it. Instead, they just turned it over to Elminster. As a joke, I made it clear Elminster was bored with it too and just stuffed it in a holy box in an interdimensional space in his attic.
Kenzuki 01-28-08, 06:39 PM	Then Orcus kills Elminster when he ceases to be a Chosen of Mystra bwha hahahaha!
Charles Phipps 01-28-08, 06:56 PM	Nah. Orcus is annoying just a Demon Prince right now and getting kicked around by Velsharoon in my games. However, he's still righteously cheesed at the party for reasons you can imagine.
MarkusTay63 01-29-08, 03:01 PM	It appeared to me that the 'monsters' in that book were the humans and other demi-humans. The goblins and others aren't trying to hurt anyone, they are just trying to survive. When Jarlaxle offers that one a deal (to betray his brethren), he gladly excepts it. These creatures do not sound like a serious threat... but the adventuring bands hunting them sure as hell do. Since when is it a crime just to want to live? :confused: ________________________________________ ________________________________________ ___ -- Markustay, avenger of Monstrous oppression everywhere! :P Monsters International Liberation Front, or 'Milfs' for short ;)
Lord Karsus 01-29-08, 03:54 PM	These creatures do not sound like a serious threat... but the adventuring bands hunting them sure as hell do. -Individual Orcs, or whatever, aren't a serious threat, sure, but when you get enough of them, and there are charismatic (or what passes for charismatic in a Orc community) leader telling the masses to "Kill, kill, kill", you get huge Orc hordes that cause lots of destruction. It was an Orc Horde that took down Ancient Occidian, after all.
Charles Phipps 01-29-08, 04:03 PM	-Individual Orcs, or whatever, aren't a serious threat, sure, but when you get enough of them, and there are charismatic (or what passes for charismatic in a Orc community) leader telling the masses to "Kill, kill, kill", you get huge Orc hordes that cause lots of destruction. It was an Orc Horde that took down Ancient Occidian, after all. I think no one is disputing that Goblins, Orcs, Ogres, and Giants are all things that could rise up against King Gareth and prevent him from establishing his Ideal Medieval Fantasy KingdomTM. However, my basic take on Vaasa has been that it (and Damaria to a certain extent) don't belong to human beings anyway. It's like someone attempting to turn Thar into a human kingdom. Vaasa is a frozen and hideous wasteland that belongs to the humanoids that have lived there for generations. He's got no legal claim to it and the arguments he uses for wiping them out could be used for the people of Ten Towns to wipe out Wulfgar's people.
Lord Karsus 01-29-08, 04:10 PM	-I am simply responding to MT's claim that they don't "sound like a serious threat", and nothing more or less. -The king's justification of doing what he does, or how you are handling it, is extraneous to my point.
Charles Phipps 01-29-08, 04:13 PM	Touche. I stand corrected. It was a very good point, however. Ultimately, I guess I'm interested in R.A. Salvatore's thoughts here. He writes a book about a Good Dark Elf and the Kingdom of Obould Many Arrows turning out to produce many "good" orcs despite its evil origins. Simultaneously, he has a book where Goblins are treated like vermin (or certain indigenous peoples in RL) while still having the guy leading them treated like a Paladin.
Lord Karsus 01-29-08, 04:38 PM	Touche. I stand corrected. It was a very good point, however. -No, I agree. Claiming rulership through power works for everyone, not just Humans.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-29-08, 08:29 PM	Ultimately, I guess I'm interested in R.A. Salvatore's thoughts here. He writes a book about a Good Dark Elf and the Kingdom of Obould Many Arrows turning out to produce many "good" orcs despite its evil origins. What's funny is that the orc kingdom in itself was rather unexpected from RAS (did he come up with the idea?) considering that he treated orcs as stupid, easily-killed "fodder" in his novels for years.
Lord Karsus 01-29-08, 09:04 PM	What's funny is that the orc kingdom in itself was rather unexpected from RAS (did he come up with the idea?) considering that he treated orcs as stupid, easily-killed "fodder" in his novels for years. -There was that one "nice" Goblin in that short story in Realms of Valor.
Charles Phipps 01-29-08, 09:05 PM	What's funny is that the orc kingdom in itself was rather unexpected from RAS (did he come up with the idea?) considering that he treated orcs as stupid, easily-killed "fodder" in his novels for years. The best I can figure is that Lathander has been possessing the Oboulds these past few generations.
MarkusTay63 01-30-08, 12:32 PM	Thank you for proving my point - -It was an Orc Horde that took down Ancient Occidian, after all.Another filthy "Faerie Infestation" destroyed? Them, with their havok-wreaking High magic... just goes to prove that the nature-loving, at-peace-with-their-environment Orcs are the good guys, out to stop the wanton destruction caused by the 'Pointy-ears'. :P To hate Orcs is to hate animals - you can not blame them for doing what they do, anymore then you can blame a pack of Wolves for bringing down a dear. Survival of the fittist is Nature's way, after all. When you start to condemn a group for having different customs and beliefs then you, who is being evil then, hmmmm? ;) Gareth is NO Paladin - he is a homocidal maniac! King Gareth MUST BE STOPPED!!! :eek: What's funny is that the orc kingdom in itself was rather unexpected from RAS (did he come up with the idea?) considering that he treated orcs as stupid, easily-killed "fodder" in his novels for years.I think, maybe, he started playing WoW right around the time he created that. :rolleyes: I think the war with Obould started out RAS's idea, but then the other designers grabbed a hold of it and decided to use it for 4e. Just my opinion here, but I doubt he started out thinking Obould was going to become a force for good. Also, one last point - the Orcish Kingdom of Vastaar (sp?) once ruled over the entirety of the Earthspur Mountains - thats the source of Bloodstone, BTW. The Orcs have a much older claim to the lands of King Gareth. :teach:
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 12:34 PM	Them, with their havok-wreaking High magic... just goes to prove that the nature-loving, at-peace-with-their-environment Orcs are the good guys, out to stop the wanton destruction caused by the 'Pointy-ears'. :P -Of course, the Orcs were associating with Demons, who are inherently, no doubts about it, no other way, evil, but hey, who's counting...;) Gareth is NO Paladin - he is a homocidal maniac! King Gareth MUST BE STOPPED!!! :eek: -Of course, King Gareth has the backing of a good deity and all, so...
MarkusTay63 01-30-08, 12:44 PM	So, what you are saying is that the poor, stupid creatures are easily mislead by powerful tyes? ;) Also - who is Gareth's god? I hope not one of those obvious morons that got involved in that silly love-triangle? Is it it Ilmatar? Then I guess that explains all the suffering he causes.... Ilmatar's big on suffering. :P Either way, I never really found much 'good' in FR's good gods, but thats probably because of the idiotic way they are portrayed in stories. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 12:54 PM	So, what you ae saying is that the poor, stupid creatures are easily mislead by powerful tyes? ;) -That, or that they, too, suffer from weak morals, as they deal with the aforementioned creatures. Also - who is Gareth's god? I hope not one of those obvious morons that got involved in that silly love-triangle? Is it it Ilmatar? -Yes, Ilmater. Either way, I never really found much 'good' in FR's good gods, but thats probably because of the idiotic way they are portrayed in stories. :rolleyes: -Hmm...What examples are you citing? The only examples I can think of with Clerics/Paladins are Greyth from the Lasy Mythal Trilogy, Dragonbait from the Finder's Stone Trilogy, and Joel the Rebel Bard. All Three were good, worshipped (more or less) good deities, and acted good.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-30-08, 03:29 PM	-There was that one "nice" Goblin in that short story in Realms of Valor. Yes, there was. Afterwards, goblins gave Drizzt pause...for a while. Then, he decided that most goblins weren't nice, so he more or less stopped "soul searching" when it came to killing them.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-30-08, 03:31 PM	I think, maybe, he started playing WoW right around the time he created that. :rolleyes: Hmmm...*ponders on that theory*:thinks: RAS has said on his website (I believe) that he does play certain games, and I wouldn't be surprised if WoW was one of them.
DanubusRann 01-30-08, 08:21 PM	well, this thread was nothing i thought it would be. I actually thought it would be a decent fun thread on the Bloodstone lands but its been more of one person making fun of the area. I actually liked the area quite a bit. Especially after reading R.A.'s books and finding out more about the area and the fact the Drow now have their hooks into things.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:17 AM	I actually thought it would be a decent fun thread on the Bloodstone lands but its been more of one person making fun of the area. -They are a silly place, especially as first introduced. Dionyssius?
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 12:24 AM	-They are a silly place, especially as first introduced. Dionyssius? I love Bloodstone mostly because I always felt it was a ridiculously Hellish place to live. 200th level to clean it out! :-)
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:25 AM	200th level to clean it out! -I forgot about that part. Wasn't it 100, though?
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 12:33 AM	It's been awhile. :-) "And in this room there's 10,000 Demons!"
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:50 AM	"And in this room there's 10,000 Demons!" -If you close the door, do they become inconsequential, like if you close a door with a train speeding towards you, or the door to a room filled with water?
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 12:52 AM	King Gareth slew Tiamat and Orcus. It's a wonder he didn't clean out the rest of the Realms. King Gareth's Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btqLP2T9Auc
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 02:28 AM	I notice the new article makes no mention of Vassa and Damara - are you feeling 'anxious' yet? :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-31-08, 11:41 AM	-They are a silly place, especially as first introduced. Dionyssius? Indeed, certain aspects of the setting are hard to take seriously.
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 11:57 AM	Bear in mind that that series of game modules started out before FR belonged to TSR, and they have since gone back and tried to repair some of the oddities. If any area needed a ret-con, this was one of them. Re-writing the history in those modules is pretty much a must, since they were never meant to be in FR. Much the same can be said for Desert of Desolation - I had an incredibly hard time rectifying that bizzare lore with canon facts about the Raurin. It not only mentions the Greek Pantheon, but the Finnish, Celtic, Norse, Roman, etc.... all having temples within the fallen Kingdom of Bakar. The couple of Greek references in the Blodstone stuff is nothing compared to the 'lore' in that. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:00 PM	Much the same can be said for Desert of Desolation - I had an incredibly hard time rectifying that bizzare lore with canon facts about the Raurin. It not only mentions the Greek Pantheon, but the Finnish, Celtic, Norse, Roman, etc.... -Any really good examples? ...all having temples within the falen Kingdom of Bakar. -Sounds incredibly familiar. Refresh my memory.
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 02:07 PM	Kronos was in Four for Cormyr
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 02:16 PM	Kronos was in Four for Cormyr -Kronos is an aspect of Labelas Enoreth, that he subsumed at some point.
Charles Phipps 01-31-08, 03:32 PM	He's also the Greek Titan. Oh, and a Bruce Cordell post that I asked on Candlekeep. Charles, Despite the tenor of the Magic in Faerun article, which focussed on magic and the Spellplague, many changes in the Realms have to do with the fact that 100 years have passed and all the events that might happen during a century that begins with such a momentous event. Anyhow, Damara and Vaasa persist, though there are some new "faces" on the scene in at least one of these regions. Mulhorand, on the other hand, was hit rather hard in the Year of Blue Fire, but at least one of its original cities remains.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 03:35 PM	He's also the Greek Titan. -Yes. The Forgotten Realms deity known as Kronos was just that, a deity, of a small kingdom somewhere in the Heartlands or Moonsea region, I believe. His worship base dwindled to the point where Labelas Enoreth came around and subsumed him.
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 05:02 PM	-Any really good examples? -Sounds incredibly familiar. Refresh my memory.Taken from a post by BadCatMan, who's research into that module far exceeded my own - New Gods: I got a hold of Desert Of Desolation and have been going through it with a fine comb, just out of curiousity on the Raurin and what it might have say about the Utter East. There's a whole Forgotten Realm out here in the Raurin. There's stacks of new gods laying around out here too, not just Anu. Seker: He has an altar in the Crypt of Badr Al-Mosak, who was apparently a bad guy. He's an Egyptian god of the afterlife who ruled the domain of the wicked. The Seker here is a god of light, who purifies unclean souls (perhaps he's put here to clean up Al-Mosak?) and destroys undead. This fits the Seker who appears in Legends & Lore and On Hallowed Ground, a NG god of light who destroys undead and promotes leisure. I guess Seker came over with the other Mulhorandi gods, but his faith died out and he went home. Perhaps his gig was too limited, or he faced competition with Lathander or the other Mulhorandi gods. Tefnut: Another Egyptian deity, a goddess of moisture and rain. Here, she answers questions to Good characters who look into Pools Of Tefnut. In L&L/OHG, she's a LG/NG storm goddess. Again, I reckon she shipped over with the others, then left after conflict with Istishia. Horus & Ra: Are mentioned separately, before they merged to Horus-Re. Which is odd, as P&P specifically mentions that Ra was known as Re when he went to Toril. This is an easy fudge though: Ra became Re over time. Ra, Apollo, Heimdall: Martek swears by Ra, Apollo and Heimdal when he defeats the efreeti. Then again, he's a planar traveller, and probably picked the last two up elsewhere. Balder & The Norns: There's a shrine to Baldur in Martek's Tomb, along with the Norns (the three Fates) who answer some questions. The whole myth of Balder's death at Hod's hands thanks to Loki is repeated. Again, I suspect Martek simply picked up the faith from somewhere. Prometheus: A Temple Of Prometheus is in Martek's Tomb as well. Apparently there were several others all along the Athis river as well, brought in by planar travellers. Others: Martek's Tomb (perhaps that guy liked collecting gods?) also has temples to: Tyche: Greek Goddess of Good Fortune (also the Netherese deity) Dunatis: Celtic God of Mountains And Peaks Untamo: Finnish God Of Sleep And Dreams Osiris: Egyptian God Of Nature And The Dead (who we have in Mulhorand) Eilish: An entirely new deity found in Pazar, who exists nowhere else in D&D or RW mythology, that I could Google. The temple has a meditation room and a scroll room, and guardian statues wielding quarterstaffs. But there's nothing to identify the deity. Not even gender, though it's a female name, from Irish Gaelic for Elizabeth. Pazar the Garden City was known for nature and nature gods, so maybe Eilish is nature based. I thought about Eilistraee. The place is infested by spiders, but these are common in the DoD campaign. Drow also appear in various places. But the meditation and quarterstaffs don't fit well. Perhaps it's this place: :D http://www.eilish.com.au/ Raurindi Gods: A strange lot. Their god has apparently turned away from them, so now they hold all religions and gods as sacred. And they worship idols, though I'm not sure if these are of their own gods or other people's gods. It feels like they've turned away from a unifying god like the Padhra or the Adama. Anu: I get the feeling he's not against all other gods, but just certain gods: the old gods of the Raurindi, and "many gods" (is this lots of other gods, or just the concept of polytheism?) We uncovered quite a bit of FR weirdness in that Ue thread. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 05:12 PM	-The Kingdom of Bakar...Where was that? It sounds incredibly familiar...
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 05:57 PM	Bakar was located in the south-east of the modern day Raurin, where the province of Limia was located in the Imaskar Empire. The Kingdom of Raurin was another survivor-state, and was located to it's west. Eventually all that was left of Bakar was Solon, which has had a few mentions in canon. The only other source Bakar itself was listed in was The Horde material, AFAIK. It was also located north of the lost Kingdom of Thommar, which once lie between Durpar and Ulgarth, and has since been absorbed by those two nations.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 07:46 PM	Eventually all that was left of Bakar was Solon, which has had a few mentions in canon. The only other source Bakar itself was listed in was The Horde material, AFAIK. -Aha! That's what it is, I think. I was doing some research for something using The Horde PDF I have.
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 11:17 PM	It was in the Bhaluin, the Drowned City entry, which is located on that small island in the Gbor Nor between Semphar and Murghōm.
XHereticX 02-01-08, 08:26 AM	Gareth is NO Paladin - he is a homocidal maniac! King Gareth MUST BE STOPPED!!! :eek: Personally I think that Loviatar and Ilmater are just aspects of the same evil deity;) As for Gareth, he is just a bad copy of Azoun IV, with an even more *****y wife.
Charles Phipps 02-01-08, 08:29 AM	It'd be hilarious if the post-Spellplague Vaasa is ruled by a scrappy Princess and her hot Calisham Sorceress best friend wizard advisor. :-)
XHereticX 02-01-08, 08:36 AM	It'd be hilarious if the post-Spellplague Vaasa is ruled by a scrappy Princess and her hot Calisham Sorceress best friend wizard advisor. :-) A princess and her million orcs... That certainly puts a new spin on an old Disney concept.
Charles Phipps 02-01-08, 08:38 AM	As World of Warcraft shows, all orcs will be hot girls while the men will still be ugly. It's how fantasy works.
XHereticX 02-01-08, 08:49 AM	As World of Warcraft shows, all orcs will be hot girls while the men will still be ugly. It's how fantasy works. Ahh, it is now quite easy to be green:D Yoda my master, I wish you were here...
Zanan 02-01-08, 09:23 AM	King Gareth slew Tiamat and Orcus. Nay, Kiaransalee slew Orcus after Gareth and Co. stole his wand ... or something.
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 09:54 AM	A princess and her million orcs... That certainly puts a new spin on an old Disney concept.If the Princess is indeed Alusair, then those are going to be some very tired Orcs. :P
XHereticX 02-01-08, 11:46 AM	If the Princess is indeed Alusair, then those are going to be some very tired Orcs. :P And more trash for Gareth and Co. to take out.
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 12:09 PM	Well, with her and them there, we at least know where all those half-Orc towns come from. :P
XHereticX 02-01-08, 12:15 PM	Well, with her and them there, we at least know where all those half-Orc towns come from. :P Thus evolution shapes it's course, and one day we will be outbred by half-orcs.
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 12:16 PM	Which means Humans will go the way of the dinosaur. Fortunately, in FR, the Dinosaurs are still around. :P
XHereticX 02-01-08, 12:22 PM	Which means Humans will go the way of the dinosaur. Fortunately, in FR, the Dinosaurs are still around. :P So humans will end up running through the jungle like mere animals once more... Take that Rino, take that:cool:
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 12:34 PM	First contact between Elves and man (-25,000 DR) - http://www.elfquest.com/gallery/OnlineComics/GN1/pics/gn1-page3.jpg http://www.elfquest.com/gallery/OnlineComics/GN1/pics/gn1-page4.jpg Cavemen are COOL!!! That means we should be getting some in 4e FR. :smirk:
Lord Karsus 02-01-08, 12:56 PM	-Where do you find these things?
Fabius Maximus 02-01-08, 08:25 PM	That's from the comic book series 'Elfquest' by Wendy & Richard Pini. God, how I devoured these...
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 08:35 PM	Yup, it's Elfquest (http://www.elfquest.com/) - incredible series. Just hit the link, and check out the Online Gallery for the rest of that comic. ;)
Kenzuki 02-01-08, 08:57 PM	That comic is racist!
XHereticX 02-01-08, 09:14 PM	I just read it, excellent (though a bit short).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-03-08, 04:56 PM	That comic is racist! I have to say, I can kind of see why you would say that (the innocent, "cultured" light-skinned people are driven off by the brutish, "bestial" dark-skinned people). :-/
XHereticX 02-03-08, 04:59 PM	I have to say, I can kind of see why you would say that (the innocent, "cultured" light-skinned people are driven off by the brutish, "bestial" dark-skinned people). :-/ That is such a repetative theme in fantasy now, I don't get why people still make a big deal out of it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-03-08, 06:58 PM	That is such a repetative theme in fantasy now, I don't get why people still make a big deal out of it. Probably because they don't think it should be a repetitive theme in fantasy (although, I'm not sure I agree that it is, at least not currently).
Charles Phipps 02-03-08, 07:08 PM	What? It's a comic of purifying the world of evil elven filth. :confused: :p
XHereticX 02-03-08, 07:19 PM	What? It's a comic of purifying the world of evil elven filth. Karsus is so going to kill you now:D
MarkusTay63 02-03-08, 09:14 PM	What? It's a comic of purifying the world of evil elven filth.I'm starting to think you're my paternal twin, seperated at birth. :dancin:
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 11:34 PM	Karsus is so going to kill you now:D -The days of me actually getting my hands dirty are long gone. Now, on the other hand, my Hands...(Hint, hint ;))
Kenzuki 02-03-08, 11:37 PM	That is such a repetative theme in fantasy now, I don't get why people still make a big deal out of it. Jesse Jackson is coming to kill you right now. Run!
DMD 02-04-08, 02:20 PM	Its not like Elfquest was written last month. That series is at least 10-20 years old. :)
MarkusTay63 02-06-08, 01:00 AM	More then that - I started reading it in High School, and I saw Star Wars on the big screen in Jr High. ;) I was that kid in Wonder Years. :P
Lord Karsus 02-06-08, 01:24 AM	I was that kid in Wonder Years. :P -Winnie was the one who gave you tusk? :yuck:
Scathlock 02-06-08, 03:48 PM	One thing is sure: Elfquest is much more hippie-flower-power-summer-of-love than FR.
Fabius Maximus 02-07-08, 06:22 AM	One thing is sure: Elfquest is much more hippie-flower-power-summer-of-love than FR. Really? I remember lots and lots of blood. Not very hippieish, if you ask me.
MarkusTay63 02-07-08, 02:11 PM	Kind of like Wheathermen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)) hippies. :P
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 02:55 PM	Kind of like Wheathermen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)) hippies. :P -Spelled it wrong. ;)
Fabius Maximus 02-07-08, 06:50 PM	Kind of like Wheathermen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)) hippies. :P No, Elfquest has nothing to do with terrorism, either...
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 07:14 PM	No, Elfquest has nothing to do with terrorism, either... -I don't know...Look at those Cave-Men...Killing those Elves because they don't want the Elves' political message to spread. Sounds like terrorism to me. :P
Charles Phipps 02-07-08, 09:36 PM	-I don't know...Look at those Cave-Men...Killing those Elves because they don't want the Elves' political message to spread. Sounds like terrorism to me. :P 1. They were trolls. 2. It was clearly the Elves who were the terrorists. Come on, crashing their flying device onto their homeland. The Red blooded folk fighting back against foreign superstitious types? That bone to the head was a bone for democracy!
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 11:34 PM	1. They were trolls. -It clearly says, "primitive Humans". Cavemen. 2. It was clearly the Elves who were the terrorists. Come on, crashing their flying device onto their homeland. -It seems to me, based on the confusion and fear, that the Elves' castle was wisked away against their will. The one thing able to bypass the wards on an Elven castle? Caveman magic. The Cavemen brought this upon themselves (literally and figurativley).
MarkusTay63 02-08-08, 01:59 AM	They were primitive humans, and if you read the whole comic, you would have gotten that. Funny thing is, when they DID introduce trolls in that comic, it turns out they were brought along to that world by the Elves... as slaves. ;) Supposedly, after the Elves fled in that opening scene, the trolls got lose from their pens and got the hell out of there as well. Note - Elfquest Trolls are nothing like D&D trolls - they are more like the ones from Folklore, which were similar to dwarves. IIRC, the comic pictured them like miniature bugbears (basically - hairy, ugly, Dwarves). http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Troll_King.jpg -Caveman magic.Not only was it powerful, but it was FAR easier to use (because of the Weave), hence the saying - "So easy even a caveman can do it" ;)
Charles Phipps 02-08-08, 03:14 PM	-It seems to me, based on the confusion and fear, that the Elves' castle was wisked away against their will. The elves had immigrated from their home world and taken on the shape of human conceptions of elves.
Lord Karsus 02-09-08, 12:22 AM	Not only was it powerful, but it was FAR easier to use (because of the Weave), hence the saying - "So easy even a caveman can do it" ;) -Perhaps. The elves had immigrated from their home world and taken on the shape of human conceptions of elves. -I'll respectfuly disagree, then. Normally, when people immigrate, even when magically doing so, they aren't fearful and confused. Now, when things happen during an emergency, or against one's will...
MarkusTay63 02-09-08, 02:11 AM	It was Tintageer all over again... Hmmm... actually that comic preceeded Tintageer by at least 20 years real-time. So, Tintageer was THAT all over again... minus the castle... the waves got to it ...flood damage... ya know... forget it.
Lord Karsus 02-09-08, 02:12 AM	-You tried. It's okay.
Fabius Maximus 02-09-08, 09:10 AM	-I'll respectfuly disagree, then. Normally, when people immigrate, even when magically doing so, they aren't fearful and confused. Now, when things happen during an emergency, or against one's will... No, he's right. But there was an emergency. I think the trolls revolted, clubbed the elves who were concentrating on the landing and they botched it, thereby ending up several thousand years before the medieval times, where they wanted to land originally.
Lord Karsus 02-09-08, 09:15 AM	-Trolls? What Trolls? I see Cave Men, not Trolls? Are we talking about this comic scan here, or are we talking about something else? I'm just talking about the comic scan that MT posted. If there's more to the story, I'm not talking about any of that...
MarkusTay63 02-09-08, 05:02 PM	Yeah, that was the beginning of the story, as originally presented, and we didn't know any of the details about why the Elves needed to flee their ancient homeland (very much like Tintageer, eh?). Then later, as all popular settings are wont to do, some it it got 'retconned', or rather, elaborated on, and we find out that the Trolls had something to do with it (even though originally they were just slaves who also escaped the cavemen in all the confusion after the Elves fled). Unbelievable, how powerful just a couple of intelligent primates were. :rolleyes: Also, please note that the original Elves were TALLER then the cavemen, and yet, a thousand years later, the Elves look more like Wolf-riding Kender. I always liked that part of the series, because in RW folklore, the Elves did indeed get smaller and smaller with each new telling of their exploits, until today's fairies all look like Tinkerbell. There is a huge cultural reason why that is (religion), but those comics took that a ran with it in a logical way. Oh... and they still exist you know... if you know how to see them. ;)
Charles Phipps 02-09-08, 06:54 PM	I am picturing Spiderman now. 20 years from now "Well, this was when he was married to Mary Jane." "What? He was married to who!?" "No, he was married to Mary Jane Watson.."
XHereticX 02-09-08, 09:35 PM	What I still don't get is how a bunch of cavemen defeated a city of magic-crazy elven archmages. For all I know the elves could have easily used their magic to manipulate the cavemen to become their slaves just like one charms animals.
Kenzuki 02-09-08, 09:46 PM	What I still don't get is how a bunch of cavemen defeated a city of magic-crazy elven archmages. For all I know the elves could have easily used their magic to manipulate the cavemen to become their slaves just like one charms animals. It's because Humans are better than elves. Plain and simple.:D
Charles Phipps 02-09-08, 10:40 PM	What I still don't get is how a bunch of cavemen defeated a city of magic-crazy elven archmages. For all I know the elves could have easily used their magic to manipulate the cavemen to become their slaves just like one charms animals. Simple. The elves use the Weave and it doesn't exist on Earth. ;-) Which is pretty much what actually happened. Wow, that's a Darwin moment.
XHereticX 02-09-08, 11:23 PM	Simple. The elves use the Weave and it doesn't exist on Earth. ;-) Which is pretty much what actually happened. Wow, that's a Darwin moment. Hmm, but can't FR spellcasters tap into magic outside the Realms, or else all those Planescape campaigns would have been for naught. Unless since the elves are more attuned to the Weave, the effects are more damaging in it's abscence. Kenzuki: Human men are better than elven men, I agree. But human women better than elven women, no way in hell!!!:P
Charles Phipps 02-09-08, 11:32 PM	Nope, clearly the Weave exists on all Planes (I say it's located on the Astral Plane). Except this one. ;-)
XHereticX 02-09-08, 11:38 PM	Nope, clearly the Weave exists on all Planes (I say it's located on the Astral Plane). Except this one. ;-) An unsatisfactory explanation, but then again, this is just some random comic strip, not actual canon.
Lord Karsus 02-09-08, 11:38 PM	Hmm, but can't FR spellcasters tap into magic outside the Realms, or else all those Planescape campaigns would have been for naught. -MT and I were having a conversation on this very subject in some thread. Unless since the elves are more attuned to the Weave, the effects are more damaging in it's abscence. -There are rules in Elves of Faerūn that deal with this.
XHereticX 02-09-08, 11:38 PM	- -There are rules in Elves of Faerūn that deal with this. I will look forward to the PDF release.
Lord Karsus 02-09-08, 11:40 PM	I will look forward to the PDF release. -Believe it or not, it's actually coming along.
Deep Dragon 02-11-08, 01:48 PM	ouch, you guys sucked me in and i actually took ten minutes to read this thread thinking that it would be about the Bloodstone Lands one of those "never get those ten minutes back" moments ;) as I am fairly new to these forums and not used to topics being allowed to deteriorate that quickly and that fully :D as to the OP, i had always looked at Gareth's purging of the humanoids in Vaasa as a pre-emptive action - as the hordes of the Galenas have attacked in no less than 3 separate canon wars/battles - and he is tired of being reactive and thus is now proactive - or it could be that as far as he is concerned the original battle with Zhengyi is still ongoing as part of the enemy is still a day or two's march from his back door also, the Galenas are the richest mountains in Faerun as far as mining and it is currently unsafe to mine the Vaasan side of them clearly expansionism, economic gain, and protection are the reasons for the purging haven't really thought about the LGness of the actions, but i'd tend to think that he wouldn't have to sit there and wait for the hordes to get so swelled and starving that they attacked again just to be justified in fighting back. He is trying to beat them to the punch.
Charles Phipps 02-11-08, 02:07 PM	Yeah, it's canon that Gareth is still a paladin but he's now just a Fighter and fallen from Ilmater's grace in our games. He's pretty desperate and confused about that.
Lord Karsus 02-12-08, 01:42 AM	one of those "never get those ten minutes back" moments ;) as I am fairly new to these forums and not used to topics being allowed to deteriorate that quickly and that fully :D -The shadow of the WizOs that remain, and CM don't care about us, it seems. We still don't have a VCL, yet.