Challange Made! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Challange Made! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dardin_DelSundin
01-30-05, 03:31 AM Okay.

Here is the question. And Explanation.

I braught over a OLD 1st Edition Character, converting him over to 3rd (Lawful Neutral Wizard 23rd/2ndArchmage <added in myself removed a couple Wizard levels to flesh him out a bit>, Drow Male.) Well as soon as I bring him in some dung heap of a Wizard (Chaotic Evil Drow Male Wizard Level 25) decides to challange him, finding he dont like the thought of someone near his power in the same group and location.

My character currently has fled to avoid confrontation at the moment. As a Rogue Male, and a Wizard, he has little to back him. This Dung Heap wizard keeps following him.

Now my question is, sooner or later Im gunna have to fight. What are my chances against such a Wizard? And with his character being in high standing, a Noble Male of some obscure city <never stated> of the 4th house. Should my character fear Retribution if he hauls off and does kill the guy somehow?
atheolos
01-30-05, 04:48 AM As a 25th level wizard. . . no. Who is going to try and defeat you? A stone colossus the Drow just happen to have sitting in some warehouse, but never bothered to use against their enemies?

Ah, I *love* epic campaigns. :(
Dardin_DelSundin
01-30-05, 05:34 AM He wants to straight out challange me to some duel. he is a 25th Level Wizard. I am a 23rd Level Wizard and 2nd Level Archmage.

Overall you dont think he will be able to do it? So should just step out and fight him?
atheolos
01-30-05, 06:52 AM Spell battles at that level usually turn on who wins initiative. Because of that, 25th level wizard don't usually challenge each other, since they know it's often just a matter of luck.

I won't tell you what to do, but I would ask "what does my character think he has to gain by fighting this wizard?" And "what does he stand to lose by declining?"
The Darkone
01-30-05, 07:39 AM Take him on, just insure that you have enough contigency spells to pull yourself out of the skillet if the fire gets to hot. Don't look at your levels of Archmage as a hindrance, you still get spells as if leveling as a wizards, plus the High Arcana special abilites. I have a character that is 30th level: 20th level wizard, 5th level Archmage, with 5 levels of rouge, and due to preparations he has spent a fortune on, he manages to survive most encounters, even some he was foolish to enage in.
With this challenge however you both are on equal ground. As a 25th level character you have had to make some friends on the path to gain such power. Call in some favors, have your allies block any attempts by his family to intervene, then face your foe. Since he challenged you, the rules of conduct allow you to pick the place of the duel. Use this to your advantage. If your character is too cowardly to face his enemey in a life and death battle, request that it be a mage duel, held at a magefair.
Also, remember that your opponent is Chaotic, this can be used against him. Most wizards are more of a Lawful bent, because of the preparations that are so vital to that class. Anyway hope any of this helps.
Dansan
01-30-05, 03:35 PM The problem also lies with realistic roleplaying. Your DM probably already knows your favourite tactics and spells, while only he knows what his mage can do. So this gives him an unfair advantage, and actually more time to plan ahead correctly.

But, I'd say you have a reasonable chance. Just make sure you have enough defensive spells at hand. Besides, a wizard in my campaign has won many a duel by just charming or dominating the other wizard. Sure, those were Mageduels that ended if one of the two surrendered prematurely, but by ending conflict sooner than later, you increase the odds you survive.
Dardin_DelSundin
01-30-05, 06:20 PM atheolos
I won't tell you what to do, but I would ask "what does my character think he has to gain by fighting this wizard?" And "what does he stand to lose by declining?"

Realy my character has nothing to gain besides stealing anything "his" Wizard has on him. He stands to lose everything, as all his magical items and spell books are on his person, he carries a portable hole. That and he is trying to in the game to become a Master of Sorcere in Menzoberranzan (I want to retire him as a PC Player).

The Darkone
Take him on,.....

Recently my character came upon a item created just after the Time of Troubles, it allows a Wizard or Sorcerer to cast low level spells in Wild Magic Zone (Between 0 Level to 3rd Level), its exact properties besides this is unkown to my character (DM still hasnt given me a write up for it), but he knows it will allow him to cast certain spells in Wild Magic Zones safely.
Think I should Lure him into such an area? I was never good with such combat, I usualy relied on Fighters, etc to protect my character as he casted spells, Wizard vs. Wizard have never been my forte (at least in the fashion of a One on One). Also I have never done a Epic Battle with another Epic Wizard before.

Dansan
The problem also lies with realistic roleplaying. Your DM probably already knows your favourite tactics and spells, while only he knows what his mage can do. So this gives him an unfair advantage, and actually more time to plan ahead correctly.

The Nice thing about this is, this DM I never played my character with except breifly. However my character does favor Abjuration and Evocation spells, he isnt a specialist, but he does know I favor those two schools.
Also the "Challangeing" Wizard is the DMs Pet character. He is a PC but I know little about him besides he seems to like Transmutation spells and Divination a lot to track my character down. He keeps the sheet well hidden and doesnt seem to rely on Magical Items.
Perhaps a list of "Active Items" my character uses might help you (if you will) aid me in a strategy to defeat this Dung Heap Wizard.

Weapon
Hand Spinneret (Drow) - Underdark (Pg.69)

Staff
The Shadowstaff - DM Guide (Pg. 239/3.0) [Classed as a Major Artifact]
Power {5 Charges Left} - DM Guide

Rings
Water Elemental Command - DM Guide
Freedom of Movement - DM Guide

Potions
4 Cure Moderate Wounds - Dm Guide
1 Neutralize Poison - DM Guide
1 Cureblindness/Deafness - DM Guide
2 Haste - DM Guide

Rods
None

Wands
2 Wall of Ice {2/50 Charges} - DM Guide
2 Ice Storm {5/50 Charges} - DM Guide
Dispel Magic {10 Charges} - Dm Guide

Misc Magic Items
Boots of Winterlands - DM Guide
Robe of Eyes - Dm Guide
Cloak of Etherealness - DM Guide
Amulet of Natural Armour +3 - DM Guide
Figurine Wonderous Power (Jasper Spider) - Underdark (Pg.74)
Portable Hole - DM Guide
Cube of Frost Resistance - DM Guide
Belt of Giant Strength (+4) - DM Guide
Decanter of Endless Water - DM Guide
Gloves of Swimming and Climbing - DM Guide

Epic Wonderus Item
Gate Key - Epic Level Handbook pg 145 (This item he hasnt had time to study and doesnt know what it is yet.)
Wild Magic Zone Stone - DM has yet to give me any significant information on this item. Besides for the fact it allows Sorcerer or Wizard to cast 0 Level to 3rd Level Spells in a Wild Magic Zone Safely. Other than that not enough time to study. (This is a item made by the DM)

Well those are about all the items my character uses. He has other items, but most are minor and considered useless items that he intends to put away or just give off to some apprentice if he lives long enough.

However for my Strategy (Opinions Wanted!) -

With the stone I plan to lure him to a Wild Magic Zone and use only 1st to 3rd Level spells against him. Focusing on Abjuration and Evocation. Typicaly My character uses ONLY cold spells, so I figured a switch to Fireball with a smigen of Cone of Cold (I know a higher level spell, but if needed...). As for Abjuration Dispel Magic shall be a focus and Protection from Energy. I also considered Shadow Tentacle Lesser, however never used the spell before.

Even though it will probably affect my Magical Items and protection, I am sure it will do the same for him and worse if he isnt prepared.
Barmoz
01-30-05, 09:02 PM One potential problem I see will be your DC using those low level spells against a character that high level. You might have problems with his saving throws being too high.

This is what I think is a fundamental flaw in the way spell DC are calculated, and in my campaigns, we homeruled that the spell level portion of the DC is replaced with 1/2 caster level. (Spell DC = 10 + 1/2 caster level + int mod)

If you've got access to complete arcane and dracominicon, you might want to look at the spells assay resistance and lower resistance, this will help you get through his likely high SR. If you have the chance to start with a quickened version of one of these, it'll probably help

There's also a spell in complete arcane that lets you anticipate where an opponent is teleporting to that could be handy in this kind of battle.

I'd also make sure you had an epic spell designed for boosting your dex and your int if possible, more than likely the battle is going to come down to initiative and getting through saving throws.
ClobberinTime
02-02-05, 12:04 PM Quickened feeblemind and Dominate monster would be my combo...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dardin_DelSundin 01-30-05, 03:31 AM	Okay. Here is the question. And Explanation. I braught over a OLD 1st Edition Character, converting him over to 3rd (Lawful Neutral Wizard 23rd/2ndArchmage <added in myself removed a couple Wizard levels to flesh him out a bit>, Drow Male.) Well as soon as I bring him in some dung heap of a Wizard (Chaotic Evil Drow Male Wizard Level 25) decides to challange him, finding he dont like the thought of someone near his power in the same group and location. My character currently has fled to avoid confrontation at the moment. As a Rogue Male, and a Wizard, he has little to back him. This Dung Heap wizard keeps following him. Now my question is, sooner or later Im gunna have to fight. What are my chances against such a Wizard? And with his character being in high standing, a Noble Male of some obscure city <never stated> of the 4th house. Should my character fear Retribution if he hauls off and does kill the guy somehow?
atheolos 01-30-05, 04:48 AM	As a 25th level wizard. . . no. Who is going to try and defeat you? A stone colossus the Drow just happen to have sitting in some warehouse, but never bothered to use against their enemies? Ah, I love epic campaigns. :(
Dardin_DelSundin 01-30-05, 05:34 AM	He wants to straight out challange me to some duel. he is a 25th Level Wizard. I am a 23rd Level Wizard and 2nd Level Archmage. Overall you dont think he will be able to do it? So should just step out and fight him?
atheolos 01-30-05, 06:52 AM	Spell battles at that level usually turn on who wins initiative. Because of that, 25th level wizard don't usually challenge each other, since they know it's often just a matter of luck. I won't tell you what to do, but I would ask "what does my character think he has to gain by fighting this wizard?" And "what does he stand to lose by declining?"
The Darkone 01-30-05, 07:39 AM	Take him on, just insure that you have enough contigency spells to pull yourself out of the skillet if the fire gets to hot. Don't look at your levels of Archmage as a hindrance, you still get spells as if leveling as a wizards, plus the High Arcana special abilites. I have a character that is 30th level: 20th level wizard, 5th level Archmage, with 5 levels of rouge, and due to preparations he has spent a fortune on, he manages to survive most encounters, even some he was foolish to enage in. With this challenge however you both are on equal ground. As a 25th level character you have had to make some friends on the path to gain such power. Call in some favors, have your allies block any attempts by his family to intervene, then face your foe. Since he challenged you, the rules of conduct allow you to pick the place of the duel. Use this to your advantage. If your character is too cowardly to face his enemey in a life and death battle, request that it be a mage duel, held at a magefair. Also, remember that your opponent is Chaotic, this can be used against him. Most wizards are more of a Lawful bent, because of the preparations that are so vital to that class. Anyway hope any of this helps.
Dansan 01-30-05, 03:35 PM	The problem also lies with realistic roleplaying. Your DM probably already knows your favourite tactics and spells, while only he knows what his mage can do. So this gives him an unfair advantage, and actually more time to plan ahead correctly. But, I'd say you have a reasonable chance. Just make sure you have enough defensive spells at hand. Besides, a wizard in my campaign has won many a duel by just charming or dominating the other wizard. Sure, those were Mageduels that ended if one of the two surrendered prematurely, but by ending conflict sooner than later, you increase the odds you survive.
Dardin_DelSundin 01-30-05, 06:20 PM	atheolos I won't tell you what to do, but I would ask "what does my character think he has to gain by fighting this wizard?" And "what does he stand to lose by declining?" Realy my character has nothing to gain besides stealing anything "his" Wizard has on him. He stands to lose everything, as all his magical items and spell books are on his person, he carries a portable hole. That and he is trying to in the game to become a Master of Sorcere in Menzoberranzan (I want to retire him as a PC Player). The Darkone Take him on,..... Recently my character came upon a item created just after the Time of Troubles, it allows a Wizard or Sorcerer to cast low level spells in Wild Magic Zone (Between 0 Level to 3rd Level), its exact properties besides this is unkown to my character (DM still hasnt given me a write up for it), but he knows it will allow him to cast certain spells in Wild Magic Zones safely. Think I should Lure him into such an area? I was never good with such combat, I usualy relied on Fighters, etc to protect my character as he casted spells, Wizard vs. Wizard have never been my forte (at least in the fashion of a One on One). Also I have never done a Epic Battle with another Epic Wizard before. Dansan The problem also lies with realistic roleplaying. Your DM probably already knows your favourite tactics and spells, while only he knows what his mage can do. So this gives him an unfair advantage, and actually more time to plan ahead correctly. The Nice thing about this is, this DM I never played my character with except breifly. However my character does favor Abjuration and Evocation spells, he isnt a specialist, but he does know I favor those two schools. Also the "Challangeing" Wizard is the DMs Pet character. He is a PC but I know little about him besides he seems to like Transmutation spells and Divination a lot to track my character down. He keeps the sheet well hidden and doesnt seem to rely on Magical Items. Perhaps a list of "Active Items" my character uses might help you (if you will) aid me in a strategy to defeat this Dung Heap Wizard. Weapon Hand Spinneret (Drow) - Underdark (Pg.69) Staff The Shadowstaff - DM Guide (Pg. 239/3.0) [Classed as a Major Artifact] Power {5 Charges Left} - DM Guide Rings Water Elemental Command - DM Guide Freedom of Movement - DM Guide Potions 4 Cure Moderate Wounds - Dm Guide 1 Neutralize Poison - DM Guide 1 Cureblindness/Deafness - DM Guide 2 Haste - DM Guide Rods None Wands 2 Wall of Ice {2/50 Charges} - DM Guide 2 Ice Storm {5/50 Charges} - DM Guide Dispel Magic {10 Charges} - Dm Guide Misc Magic Items Boots of Winterlands - DM Guide Robe of Eyes - Dm Guide Cloak of Etherealness - DM Guide Amulet of Natural Armour +3 - DM Guide Figurine Wonderous Power (Jasper Spider) - Underdark (Pg.74) Portable Hole - DM Guide Cube of Frost Resistance - DM Guide Belt of Giant Strength (+4) - DM Guide Decanter of Endless Water - DM Guide Gloves of Swimming and Climbing - DM Guide Epic Wonderus Item Gate Key - Epic Level Handbook pg 145 (This item he hasnt had time to study and doesnt know what it is yet.) Wild Magic Zone Stone - DM has yet to give me any significant information on this item. Besides for the fact it allows Sorcerer or Wizard to cast 0 Level to 3rd Level Spells in a Wild Magic Zone Safely. Other than that not enough time to study. (This is a item made by the DM) Well those are about all the items my character uses. He has other items, but most are minor and considered useless items that he intends to put away or just give off to some apprentice if he lives long enough. However for my Strategy (Opinions Wanted!) - With the stone I plan to lure him to a Wild Magic Zone and use only 1st to 3rd Level spells against him. Focusing on Abjuration and Evocation. Typicaly My character uses ONLY cold spells, so I figured a switch to Fireball with a smigen of Cone of Cold (I know a higher level spell, but if needed...). As for Abjuration Dispel Magic shall be a focus and Protection from Energy. I also considered Shadow Tentacle Lesser, however never used the spell before. Even though it will probably affect my Magical Items and protection, I am sure it will do the same for him and worse if he isnt prepared.
Barmoz 01-30-05, 09:02 PM	One potential problem I see will be your DC using those low level spells against a character that high level. You might have problems with his saving throws being too high. This is what I think is a fundamental flaw in the way spell DC are calculated, and in my campaigns, we homeruled that the spell level portion of the DC is replaced with 1/2 caster level. (Spell DC = 10 + 1/2 caster level + int mod) If you've got access to complete arcane and dracominicon, you might want to look at the spells assay resistance and lower resistance, this will help you get through his likely high SR. If you have the chance to start with a quickened version of one of these, it'll probably help There's also a spell in complete arcane that lets you anticipate where an opponent is teleporting to that could be handy in this kind of battle. I'd also make sure you had an epic spell designed for boosting your dex and your int if possible, more than likely the battle is going to come down to initiative and getting through saving throws.
ClobberinTime 02-02-05, 12:04 PM	Quickened feeblemind and Dominate monster would be my combo...