Champions of Ruin: known and suspected errors [Archive] - Wizards Community

Champions of Ruin: known and suspected errors [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Essex
06-21-05, 03:09 PM I just finished reading Champions of Ruin and have noticed a few potentially major errors. Some of the problems I am fairly certain are actual errors while others may simply be due to gaps in my understanding.

1) The Flay Foe feat on page 20 indicates that it deals an extra point of damage. The other feats deal an extra 1d6 damage and the brief write-up at the start of the section indicates that Flay Foe deals an extra 1d6. I suspect that the damage should be 1d6.

2) The 'Justice of Weald and Woe' prestige class does not list being an Elf as a prerequisite despite the fact that all of the flavor text seems to assume that it is.

3) I am uncertain how the character Atchoch't from page 57 managed to meet the Hide and Move Silently requirements for his prestige class. Does the Woodwise feat make those two skills class skills? Are the naturally class skills for Wild Elves? Did the authors simply make a mistake?

4) On page 83 Lossarwyn the Ice Lich can use his Druidic wild shape abilitydespite the fact that he hasn't taken the Corrupt Wild Shape feat from Libris Mortis.

5) The example Shadow Weave Node on page 98 grants four spells despite the fact that it is a level three node and should therefore be limited to three spells.

6) The map on page 105 has no star to indicate the position of the cleric's corpse.

7) The character on page 124 seems to be using a primary weapon that is missized for it yet takes no penalty for wielding it.

8) On page 133 Etab has both the Improved Critical feat and a keen weapon and the two traits stack despite the fact that they shouldn't.

9) The scaly flesh class efature from page 135 states that it doesn't stack with an amulet of natural armor. Why not? The class feature grants natural armor while the amulet grants an enhancement bonus to natural armor. There should be nothing to prevent the trait from stacking with the magic item.
BobROE
06-21-05, 04:29 PM On the Justice of Weald and Woe Spells Known table it mentions int, which should probably be wis (seems to be a cut and paste from the Shade Hunter). And the spellcasting explination doesn't mention anything about replacing spells so it sort of suggests it shouldn't be spontaneous casting.
The Simbul
06-22-05, 03:44 AM Aumvor the Undying is an invalid character. A 15th level Wizard who takes five levels of Archmage to get to level 20, and then proceeds to take seven levels in the Wizard class beyond CL 20, is not an "Epic Wizard 7", he is a Wiz22/Acm5. He will gain the class features that a Wizard recieves at levels 16-20, not the class features an Epic Wizard recieves at levels 21-27.

Because of this error, he was given more Epic Feats than a character with his class levels would have, and as a result he "meets the requirements" for the Netherese Arcanist prestige class with feats that he didnt earn and by all rights should not possess.

A Wizard22/Acm5 will not have the total number of Epic Feats needed to meet the requirements of the Netherese Arcanist prestige class. Either his Archmage levels have to be dropped for five additional Wizard levels, which will bring him to a Wiz27 and give him the number of bonus epic feats needed to become a Netherese Arcanist, or he simply cant be a Netherese Arcanist.

P.S. I would also like to point out, that with the exception of Ioulaum, almost every other NPC in Lost Empires of Faerun that is listed as having Netherese Arcanist levels is likewise incapable of meeting the prerequisites for the prestige class, primarily due to the insistance that every ancient FR mage somehow must have the Archmage prestige class, which in turn causes them to have an inferior number of bonus epic feats when compared to an equal level Wizard or Sorcerer who didnt multiclass or take prestige class levels.
GothicDan
06-22-05, 10:13 AM The Netherese Arcanist PrC as a whole is a bit laughable for an Epic PrC, in any event. I wouldn't even bother giving the PrC to Netherese survivors, myself. But I suppose that's not entirely on the topic of this thread, but eh. Since the book obviously deals with Netheril, one would think that it would have a PrC worthy of the Netherese's historically awesome arcane might. The Netherese Arcanist PrC certainly does not do that.
warlockco
06-22-05, 10:09 PM For some reason Champions of Ruin has alot of 3.0E stuff mixed into it, despite it being a 3.5E book.
And also uses the simplified rules for Epic Levels that were introduced in the FRCS before the Epic Level Handbook came out.
WALKAN
06-27-05, 05:43 AM To point 8)

Shouldn`t they. I thought they stacked.

point 9)

I think there`s no such thing as an enhancement bonus to natural armor (a bonus to a bonus? :thinks: ). The amulet provides a natural armor bonus and thus doesn`t stack with other natural armor boni.

EDIT: I play 3.0 (and I am proud of it) and thus are not certain, if there have been changes to these rules in 3.5.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Essex 06-21-05, 03:09 PM	I just finished reading Champions of Ruin and have noticed a few potentially major errors. Some of the problems I am fairly certain are actual errors while others may simply be due to gaps in my understanding. 1) The Flay Foe feat on page 20 indicates that it deals an extra point of damage. The other feats deal an extra 1d6 damage and the brief write-up at the start of the section indicates that Flay Foe deals an extra 1d6. I suspect that the damage should be 1d6. 2) The 'Justice of Weald and Woe' prestige class does not list being an Elf as a prerequisite despite the fact that all of the flavor text seems to assume that it is. 3) I am uncertain how the character Atchoch't from page 57 managed to meet the Hide and Move Silently requirements for his prestige class. Does the Woodwise feat make those two skills class skills? Are the naturally class skills for Wild Elves? Did the authors simply make a mistake? 4) On page 83 Lossarwyn the Ice Lich can use his Druidic wild shape abilitydespite the fact that he hasn't taken the Corrupt Wild Shape feat from Libris Mortis. 5) The example Shadow Weave Node on page 98 grants four spells despite the fact that it is a level three node and should therefore be limited to three spells. 6) The map on page 105 has no star to indicate the position of the cleric's corpse. 7) The character on page 124 seems to be using a primary weapon that is missized for it yet takes no penalty for wielding it. 8) On page 133 Etab has both the Improved Critical feat and a keen weapon and the two traits stack despite the fact that they shouldn't. 9) The scaly flesh class efature from page 135 states that it doesn't stack with an amulet of natural armor. Why not? The class feature grants natural armor while the amulet grants an enhancement bonus to natural armor. There should be nothing to prevent the trait from stacking with the magic item.
BobROE 06-21-05, 04:29 PM	On the Justice of Weald and Woe Spells Known table it mentions int, which should probably be wis (seems to be a cut and paste from the Shade Hunter). And the spellcasting explination doesn't mention anything about replacing spells so it sort of suggests it shouldn't be spontaneous casting.
The Simbul 06-22-05, 03:44 AM	Aumvor the Undying is an invalid character. A 15th level Wizard who takes five levels of Archmage to get to level 20, and then proceeds to take seven levels in the Wizard class beyond CL 20, is not an "Epic Wizard 7", he is a Wiz22/Acm5. He will gain the class features that a Wizard recieves at levels 16-20, not the class features an Epic Wizard recieves at levels 21-27. Because of this error, he was given more Epic Feats than a character with his class levels would have, and as a result he "meets the requirements" for the Netherese Arcanist prestige class with feats that he didnt earn and by all rights should not possess. A Wizard22/Acm5 will not have the total number of Epic Feats needed to meet the requirements of the Netherese Arcanist prestige class. Either his Archmage levels have to be dropped for five additional Wizard levels, which will bring him to a Wiz27 and give him the number of bonus epic feats needed to become a Netherese Arcanist, or he simply cant be a Netherese Arcanist. P.S. I would also like to point out, that with the exception of Ioulaum, almost every other NPC in Lost Empires of Faerun that is listed as having Netherese Arcanist levels is likewise incapable of meeting the prerequisites for the prestige class, primarily due to the insistance that every ancient FR mage somehow must have the Archmage prestige class, which in turn causes them to have an inferior number of bonus epic feats when compared to an equal level Wizard or Sorcerer who didnt multiclass or take prestige class levels.
GothicDan 06-22-05, 10:13 AM	The Netherese Arcanist PrC as a whole is a bit laughable for an Epic PrC, in any event. I wouldn't even bother giving the PrC to Netherese survivors, myself. But I suppose that's not entirely on the topic of this thread, but eh. Since the book obviously deals with Netheril, one would think that it would have a PrC worthy of the Netherese's historically awesome arcane might. The Netherese Arcanist PrC certainly does not do that.
warlockco 06-22-05, 10:09 PM	For some reason Champions of Ruin has alot of 3.0E stuff mixed into it, despite it being a 3.5E book. And also uses the simplified rules for Epic Levels that were introduced in the FRCS before the Epic Level Handbook came out.
WALKAN 06-27-05, 05:43 AM	To point 8) Shouldn`t they. I thought they stacked. point 9) I think there`s no such thing as an enhancement bonus to natural armor (a bonus to a bonus? :thinks: ). The amulet provides a natural armor bonus and thus doesn`t stack with other natural armor boni. EDIT: I play 3.0 (and I am proud of it) and thus are not certain, if there have been changes to these rules in 3.5.