Chaotic Good Paladin? Where? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chaotic Good Paladin? Where? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nerhesi
05-24-07, 10:39 AM Curious if FR has any prestige class or even a paladin variant that allows for a CG Paladin.

I know there is an unearthed Arcana option as well various dragon magazines.. but.. anything else?

Sam W.
Dielzen
05-24-07, 12:44 PM None that I know of offhand.

I know that Sune (CG) may have Paladin followers (exception to the one-step rule) but I don't know of any actual CG Paladins in realms lore.
Steelwind
05-24-07, 01:38 PM In realmslore there is none I know of but in D&D theres a couple of ways to go about this. First like you said Unearthed Arcana has a CG paladin varient called the Paladin of Freedom, also is the Holy Liberator PrC from Complete Warrior, and finally for an alternate option the Champion of Gwynharwyf PrC that is kind of a barbarianish prestige class that gets most of the paladin abilities. Also, while Sune is CG and can have paladins she doesnt grant the ability to be a standard PHB paladin and be CG. Hope this helps. ;)
Dielzen
05-24-07, 02:22 PM oh, well...if you're wanting (tho you didn't ask about it) ways to be "paladin-like" in the FR as a CG character....that's another story, and there's quite a few options.

Also, if elven, check out the Champion of Correllon PrC in Races of the Wild.
JamondAshwood
05-27-07, 02:02 PM Another option is the Divine Champion from the FRCS. It allows you paladin like abilities with a few bonus feats for any diety. CG, all you like!
MerrikCale
05-27-07, 03:38 PM In Champions of Valor they refer to Paladins of Selune. So you can be a paladin of a CG God, if that helps
ElberethSilverleaf
05-27-07, 04:05 PM oh, well...if you're wanting (tho you didn't ask about it) ways to be "paladin-like" in the FR as a CG character....that's another story, and there's quite a few options.

Also, if elven, check out the Champion of Correllon PrC in Races of the Wild.

I consider Bladesingers as basically the Elven version of a Paladin, but I'll have to borrow a look at Races of the Wild.

Sounds interesting.
MerrikCale
05-27-07, 08:32 PM Also, if elven, check out the Champion of Correllon PrC in Races of the Wild.

I never did bother with that book. Maybe I should have.
Dielzen
05-27-07, 10:40 PM Here's a teaser on the Champion of Corellon (sorry, can't post it all, copyright laws and all)

Many evil warriors believe that elves, while dangerous in ranged combat, have no stomach for melee. They expect that elves would fall like leaves in an autumn windstorm once the battle becomes the work of sword and axe rather than arrow and spell. These warriors have never encountered a champion of Corellon Larethian.
The champion of Corellon is a noble elf fighter, an elf knight or lord who can stand up to any orc or human warrior. All elves admire the grace, discipline, and skill necessary to become a swordmaster, and the champion of Corellon is the very paragon of elven swordsmanship. Clad in shining elven mail or plate, the champion relies on quickness, agility, and an almost scholarly study of the most difficult and advanced techniques of swordplay instead of brute power.
As the name suggests, a champion of Corellon Larethian holds a special place in elf society. Large temples of Corellon Larethian often host groups of champions who serve as elite temple guards, advisors and bodyguards to elf rulers, and questing knights in the service of the whole elf race.

And the entry requirements for said PrC:

Race: Elf or half-elf.
Alignment: Any nonevil.
Base Attack Bonus: +7.
Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks.
Feats: Proficient with all martial weapons and heavy armor, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mounted Combat.
Special: Must worship Corellon Larethian.
Special: In addition to the feats above, you must also take either Weapon Focus (longsword) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven thinblade or elven courtblade).
MerrikCale
05-27-07, 11:07 PM merci beau coup and danke schoen. Maybe I should get the book?
Valgard
05-28-07, 08:38 AM It is curious that you, MerrikCale, are using an image of Races of the Wild as an avatar and you don't even have that book.
MerrikCale
05-28-07, 08:50 AM It is curious that you, MerrikCale, are using an image of Races of the Wild as an avatar and you don't even have that book.

I just liked the avatar. I didn't even realize it came from that book. Frankly, I have the Races of Destiny book and was disappointed. I gaves the Dwarf/Gnome a good read and thought it was OK
Lord Karsus
05-30-07, 12:57 AM -Ugh, don't get me started on Chaotic "Paladins"...:nonono:

I never did bother with that book. Maybe I should have.

merci beau coup and danke schoen. Maybe I should get the book?

-No, you did the right thing. Save your money, buy something nice for yourself.
BrennonGoldeye
05-30-07, 08:20 AM -Ugh, don't get me started on Chaotic "Paladins"...:nonono:
OK, the more I have researched it I must agree that the only class that should be called paladin is the LG paladin.

Here is the list of the class names for the Dragon #106 variants.:)
* Myrikhan - Neutral Good
* Garath - Chaotic Good
* Lyan - Lawful Neutral
* Paramander - Neutral(balance of the extremes)
* Paramandyr - Neutral(destruction of the extremes)
* Fantra - Chaotic Neutral
* Illrigger - Lawful Evil
* Arrikhan - Neutral Evil

These variants were published in Dragon #310 and #312

* Anarch - Chaotic Neutral
* Avenger - Chaotic Good
* Sentinel - Neutral Good
* Incarnate - Neutral
* Enforcer - Lawful Neutral
* Despot - Lawful Evil
* Corrupter - Neutral Evil
* Anti-Paladin - Chaotic Evil

There ya go LK, no more chaotic paladins.;)
Lord Karsus
05-30-07, 09:40 AM OK, the more I have researched it I must agree that the only class that should be called paladin is the LG paladin.

-It's the only sensible thing.
BrennonGoldeye
05-30-07, 10:00 AM -It's the only sensible thing.

Sense is for wusses.;)
Lord Karsus
05-30-07, 10:07 AM -Except for the sense of smell.
Leukrythus
05-30-07, 10:29 AM Historically speaking (IRL), the Paladin evolved from the Roman Praetorian Guard. Later in the Middle ages Paladins were nobles in service of the Pope and the Imperial Roman Catholic Church. Since D&D is not about role playing Christianity and its claim of being Lawful Good (the victors rewrite the history), Paladins should (IMO) not be limited to that alignment, especially when our own history has shown that they were not alway on the side of "Good".
BrennonGoldeye
05-30-07, 11:07 AM The only reason I say the title should be relegated to LG holy warriors is that it was based on a LG ideal. I would just as soon kiss Bel as have dinner with most of the Triad's folk. Anarchs are the only ones who truly understand. Well, maybe Garaths. ;)
Leukrythus
05-30-07, 11:57 AM The only reason I say the title should be relegated to LG holy warriors is that it was based on a LG ideal. I would just as soon kiss Bel as have dinner with most of the Triad's folk.

It is based on the LG ideal because that's the way it was written, which was based on an idealized version of our history.

From a historic perspective a Paladin should be an elite religious guard (any religion), and in game be a prestige class. A new prestige class called a Praetorian should be an elite non-religious guard (like Purple Dragons).

But the game is not about accuracy to our history... so carry on!
Lord Karsus
05-30-07, 01:14 PM But the game is not about accuracy to our history... so carry on!

-Exactly. By definition, Paladins in D&D must be Lawful and Good.

-Those other "Paladin" classes are just bad excuses for lousy roleplayers who want to be Paladins, but don't have the self-control to actually play them. I played a Paladin in a campaign once. It was kind of fun. Wait, never mind. I was playing a LG Cleric of Torm. The other player was the Paladin. LG Clerics of Torm and Paladins are basically interchangable, though.

-My character was the definition of holy hubris. My name, and I always made sure to introduce myself properly was, "Lord Gafgarion Dragonsbane, son of Aldric Dragonsbane, defender of the Citadel, and humble servant of the Torm the True."
Leukrythus
05-30-07, 02:08 PM But the game is not about accuracy to our history... so carry on!

-Exactly. By definition, Paladins in D&D must be Lawful and Good.

Agreed. But there should be no issue then if the Gods of the Coast wrote in a paladin-like character class of any other alignment that was also a champion of his religion.

-Those other "Paladin" classes are just bad excuses for lousy roleplayers who want to be Paladins, but don't have the self-control to actually play them. I played a Paladin in a campaign once. It was kind of fun. Wait, never mind. I was playing a LG Cleric of Torm. The other player was the Paladin. LG Clerics of Torm and Paladins are basically interchangable, though.

I guess that lousy roleplaying could've been the problem. Or perhaps they wanted to play a champion of a religion that was something other than Lawful Good?

-My character was the definition of holy hubris. My name, and I always made sure to introduce myself properly was, "Lord Gafgarion Dragonsbane, son of Aldric Dragonsbane, defender of the Citadel, and humble servant of the Torm the True."

Best intro ever... "My name is Sue! How do you do! Now you gonna die!!"
Lord Karsus
05-30-07, 02:16 PM Agreed. But there should be no issue then if the Gods of the Coast wrote in a paladin-like character class of any other alignment that was also a champion of his religion.

-Nope, I'd have no problem, so long as they weren't called "Paladins". I like that list Brennon made a few posts back. Instead of a Paladin of Freedom, dedicated to Finder Wyvernspur, you'd have an Avenger of Finder Wyvernspur. Much better. :)

I guess that lousy roleplaying could've been the problem. Or perhaps they wanted to play a champion of a religion that was something other than Lawful Good?

-Well, one also need not be a Paladin to be a champion of a religion. So long as you roleplayed the character as a zealous defender of the faith, what's wrong with being a Fighter dedicated to, say, Finder Wyvernspur again? Or a Cleric?
Leukrythus
05-30-07, 03:00 PM -Well, one also need not be a Paladin to be a champion of a religion. So long as you roleplayed the character as a zealous defender of the faith, what's wrong with being a Fighter dedicated to, say, Finder Wyvernspur again? Or a Cleric?

You might as well be saying that the Paladin-type character should not exist at all. Why prohibit all other alignments from having their religious champions?
MerrikCale
05-30-07, 08:59 PM I like GothicDan's idea of having a base class, Crusader, which would be a Holy warrior for any religion, I believe he said it would be similar to a Divine Champion PrC. That would leave the Paladin well enough alone but would allow holy warriors for religions like Selune's and the Elves
Lord Karsus
05-31-07, 12:06 AM You might as well be saying that the Paladin-type character should not exist at all. Why prohibit all other alignments from having their religious champions?

-Well, now we have all of these other base classes/PrCs.
Leukrythus
05-31-07, 06:51 AM I like GothicDan's idea of having a base class, Crusader, which would be a Holy warrior for any religion, I believe he said it would be similar to a Divine Champion PrC. That would leave the Paladin well enough alone but would allow holy warriors for religions like Selune's and the Elves

That would work, it sounds like it would duplicate the Paladin in all but name and alignment.

It would be great if all these new classes and prestige classes could be compiled in one location.
Dielzen
05-31-07, 02:43 PM Like this?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists
Leukrythus
05-31-07, 04:04 PM Like this?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists

I do have that page bookmarked, but I can't run a prestige class with a one line description.

My point is that I would be willing to pay to access an on-line database where I could get the specifics on all those classes and other info.
Dielzen
05-31-07, 11:12 PM The rumormill suggests that with yanking the rights from both CMP and Paizo, that WotC is going to come up with some sort of online character repository and ezine format that are linked somehow (or at least the character section will have all the new options from the latest issue of the ezine) that they can charge you $X/month for.
ElberethSilverleaf
05-31-07, 11:35 PM I my mind, overzealous defenders of the faith wouldn't fit into most CG deities ideologies.
zerodeviere
06-01-07, 12:53 PM I'm pretty sure they have to be lawful because they have to follow their *religions doctrine to the letter to be able to serve the way a zealot should serve and reap the abilities of a paladin. Any chaotic version just rapes what it means to be a Paladin.
rjfras
06-15-07, 09:00 PM I my mind, overzealous defenders of the faith wouldn't fit into most CG deities ideologies.
True most wouldn't but look at someone who is CG like Eilistraee and her dogma and ideology concerning the poor, homeless, etc and how to treat people who are rude to you and how to treat evil.

Dogma: Be always kind, except in battle with evil. Encourage happiness everywhere. Learn and teach new songs, dances and the flowing dance of skill swordwork. Promote harmony between the races. Befriend strangers, shelter those without homes and feed the hungry. Repay rudeness with kindness. Repay violence with swift violence so that those who cause it are quickly dealt with.

I think if you followed her dogma, you would make a pretty good paladin even as CG.
BrennonGoldeye
06-15-07, 09:19 PM I my mind, overzealous defenders of the faith wouldn't fit into most CG deities ideologies.

I'm not quite sure where the overzealousness came from. That isn't a requirement for Paladin. Zealousness is. Thats something all aligns can attain. :)
MerrikCale
06-15-07, 09:38 PM How about the Crusader from Tome of Battle? Would that make a good CG holy warrior?
GothicDan
06-15-07, 11:24 PM That would work, it sounds like it would duplicate the Paladin in all but name and alignment.

In my vision, the Crusader class would have more generic abilities. They would be given a Smite ability that would affect targets defined by their religion, not their alignment; not all would have Lay on Hands, or even its reverse, based on alignment. Seeing as alignment is by far secondary to culture and religion in the Realms, I think that it's only fitting that such traditions directly (mechanically) affect the divine champions that would arise.
MerrikCale
06-16-07, 12:03 AM In my vision, the Crusader class would have more generic abilities. They would be given a Smite ability that would affect targets defined by their religion, not their alignment; not all would have Lay on Hands, or even its reverse, based on alignment. Seeing as alignment is by far secondary to culture and religion in the Realms, I think that it's only fitting that such traditions directly (mechanically) affect the divine champions that would arise.

I do love that idea. I don't care what everyone else says on these boards, you're very clever

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nerhesi 05-24-07, 10:39 AM	Curious if FR has any prestige class or even a paladin variant that allows for a CG Paladin. I know there is an unearthed Arcana option as well various dragon magazines.. but.. anything else? Sam W.
Dielzen 05-24-07, 12:44 PM	None that I know of offhand. I know that Sune (CG) may have Paladin followers (exception to the one-step rule) but I don't know of any actual CG Paladins in realms lore.
Steelwind 05-24-07, 01:38 PM	In realmslore there is none I know of but in D&D theres a couple of ways to go about this. First like you said Unearthed Arcana has a CG paladin varient called the Paladin of Freedom, also is the Holy Liberator PrC from Complete Warrior, and finally for an alternate option the Champion of Gwynharwyf PrC that is kind of a barbarianish prestige class that gets most of the paladin abilities. Also, while Sune is CG and can have paladins she doesnt grant the ability to be a standard PHB paladin and be CG. Hope this helps. ;)
Dielzen 05-24-07, 02:22 PM	oh, well...if you're wanting (tho you didn't ask about it) ways to be "paladin-like" in the FR as a CG character....that's another story, and there's quite a few options. Also, if elven, check out the Champion of Correllon PrC in Races of the Wild.
JamondAshwood 05-27-07, 02:02 PM	Another option is the Divine Champion from the FRCS. It allows you paladin like abilities with a few bonus feats for any diety. CG, all you like!
MerrikCale 05-27-07, 03:38 PM	In Champions of Valor they refer to Paladins of Selune. So you can be a paladin of a CG God, if that helps
ElberethSilverleaf 05-27-07, 04:05 PM	oh, well...if you're wanting (tho you didn't ask about it) ways to be "paladin-like" in the FR as a CG character....that's another story, and there's quite a few options. Also, if elven, check out the Champion of Correllon PrC in Races of the Wild. I consider Bladesingers as basically the Elven version of a Paladin, but I'll have to borrow a look at Races of the Wild. Sounds interesting.
MerrikCale 05-27-07, 08:32 PM	Also, if elven, check out the Champion of Correllon PrC in Races of the Wild. I never did bother with that book. Maybe I should have.
Dielzen 05-27-07, 10:40 PM	Here's a teaser on the Champion of Corellon (sorry, can't post it all, copyright laws and all) Many evil warriors believe that elves, while dangerous in ranged combat, have no stomach for melee. They expect that elves would fall like leaves in an autumn windstorm once the battle becomes the work of sword and axe rather than arrow and spell. These warriors have never encountered a champion of Corellon Larethian. The champion of Corellon is a noble elf fighter, an elf knight or lord who can stand up to any orc or human warrior. All elves admire the grace, discipline, and skill necessary to become a swordmaster, and the champion of Corellon is the very paragon of elven swordsmanship. Clad in shining elven mail or plate, the champion relies on quickness, agility, and an almost scholarly study of the most difficult and advanced techniques of swordplay instead of brute power. As the name suggests, a champion of Corellon Larethian holds a special place in elf society. Large temples of Corellon Larethian often host groups of champions who serve as elite temple guards, advisors and bodyguards to elf rulers, and questing knights in the service of the whole elf race. And the entry requirements for said PrC: Race: Elf or half-elf. Alignment: Any nonevil. Base Attack Bonus: +7. Skills: Diplomacy 4 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks. Feats: Proficient with all martial weapons and heavy armor, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mounted Combat. Special: Must worship Corellon Larethian. Special: In addition to the feats above, you must also take either Weapon Focus (longsword) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven thinblade or elven courtblade).
MerrikCale 05-27-07, 11:07 PM	merci beau coup and danke schoen. Maybe I should get the book?
Valgard 05-28-07, 08:38 AM	It is curious that you, MerrikCale, are using an image of Races of the Wild as an avatar and you don't even have that book.
MerrikCale 05-28-07, 08:50 AM	It is curious that you, MerrikCale, are using an image of Races of the Wild as an avatar and you don't even have that book. I just liked the avatar. I didn't even realize it came from that book. Frankly, I have the Races of Destiny book and was disappointed. I gaves the Dwarf/Gnome a good read and thought it was OK
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 12:57 AM	-Ugh, don't get me started on Chaotic "Paladins"...:nonono: I never did bother with that book. Maybe I should have. merci beau coup and danke schoen. Maybe I should get the book? -No, you did the right thing. Save your money, buy something nice for yourself.
BrennonGoldeye 05-30-07, 08:20 AM	-Ugh, don't get me started on Chaotic "Paladins"...:nonono: OK, the more I have researched it I must agree that the only class that should be called paladin is the LG paladin. Here is the list of the class names for the Dragon #106 variants.:) * Myrikhan - Neutral Good * Garath - Chaotic Good * Lyan - Lawful Neutral * Paramander - Neutral(balance of the extremes) * Paramandyr - Neutral(destruction of the extremes) * Fantra - Chaotic Neutral * Illrigger - Lawful Evil * Arrikhan - Neutral Evil These variants were published in Dragon #310 and #312 * Anarch - Chaotic Neutral * Avenger - Chaotic Good * Sentinel - Neutral Good * Incarnate - Neutral * Enforcer - Lawful Neutral * Despot - Lawful Evil * Corrupter - Neutral Evil * Anti-Paladin - Chaotic Evil There ya go LK, no more chaotic paladins.;)
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 09:40 AM	OK, the more I have researched it I must agree that the only class that should be called paladin is the LG paladin. -It's the only sensible thing.
BrennonGoldeye 05-30-07, 10:00 AM	-It's the only sensible thing. Sense is for wusses.;)
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 10:07 AM	-Except for the sense of smell.
Leukrythus 05-30-07, 10:29 AM	Historically speaking (IRL), the Paladin evolved from the Roman Praetorian Guard. Later in the Middle ages Paladins were nobles in service of the Pope and the Imperial Roman Catholic Church. Since D&D is not about role playing Christianity and its claim of being Lawful Good (the victors rewrite the history), Paladins should (IMO) not be limited to that alignment, especially when our own history has shown that they were not alway on the side of "Good".
BrennonGoldeye 05-30-07, 11:07 AM	The only reason I say the title should be relegated to LG holy warriors is that it was based on a LG ideal. I would just as soon kiss Bel as have dinner with most of the Triad's folk. Anarchs are the only ones who truly understand. Well, maybe Garaths. ;)
Leukrythus 05-30-07, 11:57 AM	The only reason I say the title should be relegated to LG holy warriors is that it was based on a LG ideal. I would just as soon kiss Bel as have dinner with most of the Triad's folk. It is based on the LG ideal because that's the way it was written, which was based on an idealized version of our history. From a historic perspective a Paladin should be an elite religious guard (any religion), and in game be a prestige class. A new prestige class called a Praetorian should be an elite non-religious guard (like Purple Dragons). But the game is not about accuracy to our history... so carry on!
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 01:14 PM	But the game is not about accuracy to our history... so carry on! -Exactly. By definition, Paladins in D&D must be Lawful and Good. -Those other "Paladin" classes are just bad excuses for lousy roleplayers who want to be Paladins, but don't have the self-control to actually play them. I played a Paladin in a campaign once. It was kind of fun. Wait, never mind. I was playing a LG Cleric of Torm. The other player was the Paladin. LG Clerics of Torm and Paladins are basically interchangable, though. -My character was the definition of holy hubris. My name, and I always made sure to introduce myself properly was, "Lord Gafgarion Dragonsbane, son of Aldric Dragonsbane, defender of the Citadel, and humble servant of the Torm the True."
Leukrythus 05-30-07, 02:08 PM	But the game is not about accuracy to our history... so carry on! -Exactly. By definition, Paladins in D&D must be Lawful and Good. Agreed. But there should be no issue then if the Gods of the Coast wrote in a paladin-like character class of any other alignment that was also a champion of his religion. -Those other "Paladin" classes are just bad excuses for lousy roleplayers who want to be Paladins, but don't have the self-control to actually play them. I played a Paladin in a campaign once. It was kind of fun. Wait, never mind. I was playing a LG Cleric of Torm. The other player was the Paladin. LG Clerics of Torm and Paladins are basically interchangable, though. I guess that lousy roleplaying could've been the problem. Or perhaps they wanted to play a champion of a religion that was something other than Lawful Good? -My character was the definition of holy hubris. My name, and I always made sure to introduce myself properly was, "Lord Gafgarion Dragonsbane, son of Aldric Dragonsbane, defender of the Citadel, and humble servant of the Torm the True." Best intro ever... "My name is Sue! How do you do! Now you gonna die!!"
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 02:16 PM	Agreed. But there should be no issue then if the Gods of the Coast wrote in a paladin-like character class of any other alignment that was also a champion of his religion. -Nope, I'd have no problem, so long as they weren't called "Paladins". I like that list Brennon made a few posts back. Instead of a Paladin of Freedom, dedicated to Finder Wyvernspur, you'd have an Avenger of Finder Wyvernspur. Much better. :) I guess that lousy roleplaying could've been the problem. Or perhaps they wanted to play a champion of a religion that was something other than Lawful Good? -Well, one also need not be a Paladin to be a champion of a religion. So long as you roleplayed the character as a zealous defender of the faith, what's wrong with being a Fighter dedicated to, say, Finder Wyvernspur again? Or a Cleric?
Leukrythus 05-30-07, 03:00 PM	-Well, one also need not be a Paladin to be a champion of a religion. So long as you roleplayed the character as a zealous defender of the faith, what's wrong with being a Fighter dedicated to, say, Finder Wyvernspur again? Or a Cleric? You might as well be saying that the Paladin-type character should not exist at all. Why prohibit all other alignments from having their religious champions?
MerrikCale 05-30-07, 08:59 PM	I like GothicDan's idea of having a base class, Crusader, which would be a Holy warrior for any religion, I believe he said it would be similar to a Divine Champion PrC. That would leave the Paladin well enough alone but would allow holy warriors for religions like Selune's and the Elves
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 12:06 AM	You might as well be saying that the Paladin-type character should not exist at all. Why prohibit all other alignments from having their religious champions? -Well, now we have all of these other base classes/PrCs.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 06:51 AM	I like GothicDan's idea of having a base class, Crusader, which would be a Holy warrior for any religion, I believe he said it would be similar to a Divine Champion PrC. That would leave the Paladin well enough alone but would allow holy warriors for religions like Selune's and the Elves That would work, it sounds like it would duplicate the Paladin in all but name and alignment. It would be great if all these new classes and prestige classes could be compiled in one location.
Dielzen 05-31-07, 02:43 PM	Like this? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 04:04 PM	Like this? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists I do have that page bookmarked, but I can't run a prestige class with a one line description. My point is that I would be willing to pay to access an on-line database where I could get the specifics on all those classes and other info.
Dielzen 05-31-07, 11:12 PM	The rumormill suggests that with yanking the rights from both CMP and Paizo, that WotC is going to come up with some sort of online character repository and ezine format that are linked somehow (or at least the character section will have all the new options from the latest issue of the ezine) that they can charge you $X/month for.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-31-07, 11:35 PM	I my mind, overzealous defenders of the faith wouldn't fit into most CG deities ideologies.
zerodeviere 06-01-07, 12:53 PM	I'm pretty sure they have to be lawful because they have to follow their *religions doctrine to the letter to be able to serve the way a zealot should serve and reap the abilities of a paladin. Any chaotic version just rapes what it means to be a Paladin.
rjfras 06-15-07, 09:00 PM	I my mind, overzealous defenders of the faith wouldn't fit into most CG deities ideologies. True most wouldn't but look at someone who is CG like Eilistraee and her dogma and ideology concerning the poor, homeless, etc and how to treat people who are rude to you and how to treat evil. Dogma: Be always kind, except in battle with evil. Encourage happiness everywhere. Learn and teach new songs, dances and the flowing dance of skill swordwork. Promote harmony between the races. Befriend strangers, shelter those without homes and feed the hungry. Repay rudeness with kindness. Repay violence with swift violence so that those who cause it are quickly dealt with. I think if you followed her dogma, you would make a pretty good paladin even as CG.
BrennonGoldeye 06-15-07, 09:19 PM	I my mind, overzealous defenders of the faith wouldn't fit into most CG deities ideologies. I'm not quite sure where the overzealousness came from. That isn't a requirement for Paladin. Zealousness is. Thats something all aligns can attain. :)
MerrikCale 06-15-07, 09:38 PM	How about the Crusader from Tome of Battle? Would that make a good CG holy warrior?
GothicDan 06-15-07, 11:24 PM	That would work, it sounds like it would duplicate the Paladin in all but name and alignment. In my vision, the Crusader class would have more generic abilities. They would be given a Smite ability that would affect targets defined by their religion, not their alignment; not all would have Lay on Hands, or even its reverse, based on alignment. Seeing as alignment is by far secondary to culture and religion in the Realms, I think that it's only fitting that such traditions directly (mechanically) affect the divine champions that would arise.
MerrikCale 06-16-07, 12:03 AM	In my vision, the Crusader class would have more generic abilities. They would be given a Smite ability that would affect targets defined by their religion, not their alignment; not all would have Lay on Hands, or even its reverse, based on alignment. Seeing as alignment is by far secondary to culture and religion in the Realms, I think that it's only fitting that such traditions directly (mechanically) affect the divine champions that would arise. I do love that idea. I don't care what everyone else says on these boards, you're very clever