Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bladesong 08-11-06, 04:39 AM	Hey guys. I just joined my cousin's DnD group and need help making a character for a high-level adventure. I read a lot of the novels and played some of the PC games but have no experience making a PnP character. The stats I rolled for my character are Str12 Dex18 Con12 Int16 Wis14 Cha15. The DM was nice enough to give me some liberties with the ability scores since this would be my first time playing though did not extend that compliment to helping me build my character. He is a lawful good moon elf named Sarion Evrilow. The other guys in the group are levels 14-18 so I was recommended to create a 16th level character. I want to make him a level 10 monk, level 4 fighter, and level 2 ninja but have no idea how to make it work. His background is a little bare so far but I'll flesh it out later on. During the fall of Ascalhorn, the young elf warrior, Elavel Evrilow, and his wife fled at the height of the battle in cowardice. Consequently, the family's moonblade found Elavel unworthy and became dormant. In shame, he journeyed to the Far East of the world, searching for a purpose. When his son, Sarion, was born centuries later, he educated him in the truest values of the elven race, with the hope that Sarion could restore the family's honor. The shamed elf died when Sarion was still very young, though not before bestowing upon him the dormant moonblade. He journeyed and adventured in Kara-Tur, growing stronger along the way. He journeys now to the west and Faerun, in the hopes of discovering the knowledge of how to awaken the moonblade and restore his family's honor. So now come the questions. How do I build this character? What powers would the moonblade have? Which skills and feats do I need to make this character? Does his history make sense? :confused: Please help me start my DnD career on the right foot!!
dragonheart 08-11-06, 07:28 AM	lets take it one step at a time I would say that if your going ninja you are never going to waken the moonblade - realisticlly if yoru already level 16 and havent your not. I would change the story line so that the moonblade was left behind in the care of eihter a family baelnorn, the leader of the family or with the queen on evermeet for later scions of the family to awaken and so you are now coming west to try to find the moonblade and awaken it. If I could do anything I would change the alignment of the character to NG, and lower the levels in monk replacing them with a couple of levels in bard (I think you qualify) and ranger. THere is a feat in complete adventurer - ascetic hunter - that lets you combine ranger and monk levels for unarmed damage. THen add to the back story with a section on something happening to force the change of alignment - perhaps your lord or one of the lead monks being corrupted and using you against elves or nature spirits and you being forced to stop following orders and rules and have to think for yourself. so something like monk 8, ranger 4 (several years out in the wilds after the events coming to terms with your new self), bard 4 - finding your true self and and starting your journey back west learning more and more of your new world as you travel. as for other feats - I would take the two weapon fighting line in the ranger. you should know from family history what type of sword (long/rapier/elven thinblade/etc) the family moonblade is and have focused in it so wepon focus(moonblade) weapon specialization (moonblade) and probably others based on dex like weapon finese, two weapon defense, etc
Bladesong 08-11-06, 11:21 AM	Thanks, sound advice. I'll definitely change my history. Keep the advice coming please!! :D
void7shade 08-11-06, 10:01 PM	I mostly agree with Dragonheart except for if you adventured in Kara-Tur your character you have most likely have spent most of his time fighting. So I would take levels mostly in a martial oriented classes i.e. fighter, ranger, or maybe even swashbuckler. Then, if you want to spice him up a little bit, think about a spellcasting class. And, not to be an ass, Moonblades are always longswords. For more on Moonblades, see Magic of Faerun. Or, with your DM's permission, why not take an interesting template, say maybe lycanthrope(afflicted) or half-elemental(for this choice you are still considered a full Elf for purposes of your Moonblade). Just a thought! Personally I'm not fond of just playing a "regular" race, unless it's Drow. Nothinthing beats a ******-off Dark Elf with a fist full of spells, especially at 16th level :devil:
Bladesong 08-11-06, 10:29 PM	Hmm... but I really like the monk's versatility. I'm also more into combat than spellcasting. However, thanks to you guys, I think I'm forming an idea of what to do. Dragonheart's ranger idea is good but the fighter levels come from his time of tutelage under his father. I think I'm good as a regular moon elf, templates and subraces seem a bit of a bother. Do the two weapon fighting and ambidexterity feats affect unarmed strike? You know, just in case he loses his weapons somehow.
GothicDan 08-11-06, 10:46 PM	And note that Moonblades are not always Longswords. They are just a common form. Elaine Cunningham, who created them, said this. :)
void7shade 08-11-06, 11:42 PM	Where did you read this?
dragonheart 08-12-06, 10:02 AM	well lets start with the first moonblade - Arylin's I believe its a bastard sword which she frequently weilds 2 handed. :D :D As for storyline I take it you start off as fighter (under your father ) and then become a monk once he is dead. I actually like the monk as a warior class - its not strictly an upfront fighter but like the ranger it can hold its own for a time at least. And it has a lot of other skills and abilities that make it a useful backup to everyone. like many others I do like the fighter-mage combo but I don't push it too much when the character concept doesn't call for it as this one didn't. If you do go that way I would suggest sorceror or wu-jen (complete arcane) as its a kara-turian spellcaster. basically yoru back story needs to cover why you were Kara-tur (you've done that - born there after dad fled to there when the moonblade wouldn't work for him), why you joined the monks (this is still not clear - especially if your father lived long enough for you to gain 4 levels of fighter under his training - traditionally the monks only took in orphans or children not adults so that part of the back story is difficult. Bards can't be lawful (I believe off hand) so if you go this route you need ot explain the alignment change (perhaps wiht the option I gave) other possibilities would be going sorceror and then (now that yoru back in faerun) going bladesinger and recovering your family moonblade after that.
Bladesong 08-12-06, 02:08 PM	Hmm... well elves take a long time to develop, 120 years, correct? Drizzt is only in his 70s and not even a fully grown dark elf and is already level 16. By maybe 20 years, an elf might still seem very childlike and so was able to be accepted by the monks. Hate to be a bother but no ideas on how to make the ninja class work? My first gaming session is tomorrow!! I'm so excited!! :D :D :D
dragonheart 08-12-06, 02:49 PM	ny complaint with the ninja class is that it is focused on the storybook ninja (aka assasin) and so is at best a neutral alignment. Your moonblade is going to be looking for a good alignment at the very least and probably either a LG or NG alignment which doesn't fit well with the ninja class - yes today we have movies etc with good aligned ninjas but its a very recent thing. traditionally the ninja were neutral nature loving monk/warriors or monk/rangers so its possible to do but will call for a good detailed backstory and good solid role play. You might want to rent and watch the American Ninja movies to get a glimpse of a particular possible backstory you could use to fit this in (ie n orphan trained by a lone ninja master in hidding etc.) good luck and enjoy :D
Bladesong 08-13-06, 03:06 PM	Whoooo this was more fun that I thought it would be, though my cousin's friends did nothing to alleviate the "Cheetos" stereotype. In the end, I chose the 4 ftr, 10 mnk, and 2 nja that I wanted to do. I wanted to go with the ranger/monk but no one had heard about the prestige class dragonheart had mentioned. They met me on the border of Thay and Aglarond and offered to accompany me in my quest to reclaim my moonblade in the High Forest. Then we fought undead sent by a red wizard. Hmm... I guess experiencing it was more fun than I make it seem here. Thanks again guys. I am truly appreciative of your advice.
dragonheart 08-14-06, 01:55 PM	glad you enjoyed the game. I wanted to go with the ranger/monk but no one had heard about the prestige class dragonheart had mentioned. its not a prestige class - its a feat in complete adventurer (same book as the ninja class) called Ascetic Hunter - it lets your levels in monk and ranger stack for determining the amount of unarmed damage you do as a monk. if you really like the ranger/monk idea see if yoru DM has teh Players Handbook II (PHII). It has a whole chapter on rebuilding characters in play - maybe yoru DM will let you do this as part of the campaign.
Bladesong 08-16-06, 08:19 PM	After a couple of days, the bladesinger idea started looking very attractive. So, I asked the DM if I could rebuild the character. He agreed at the cost of all my XP leading up to 16th level and beyond. Meh oh well. His history is still the same. His new stats are Str 14 Dex 21 Con 15 Int 18 Wis 14 Cha 15. New levels are 10 mnk/4 ftr/1 wiz. All levels after this would be bladesinger. That is, when he reclaims the moonblade. Any thoughts, dragonheart? Guys?
dragonheart 08-18-06, 09:28 AM	I have never really liked the way bladesingers were written up so I redid it to meet waht I thought they were like - see the post in classes. Again I would suggest using ranger instead of fighter this not only give you TWF so you have lower penalties when you do use yoru unarmed strikes as a second weapon but it also allows you access to the ascetic hunter feat which lets you combine ranger and monk levels for unarmed damage. in your case the second weapon would really be the unarmed attacks rahter than a second melee weapon, in fact given the dmage potential of the monk/ranger combo (about 2D8 I believe) unarmed might actually be your primary and secondary weapons :D leaving both hands available for spell casting and presenting a very differnt look to foes when you don't even have a blade just an arsenal of monk weapons (or maybe a spiked chain as primary weapon) (chaindancer anyone?)
Bladesong 08-18-06, 01:21 PM	Oh wow. 2d8? Now I'm going to have to do it. I still don't understand why it should be sorcerer and not wizard.
dragonheart 08-18-06, 04:42 PM	I still don't understand why it should be sorcerer and not wizard. basically a wizard has to haul around a bunch of spellbooks and is lost without them. They do have greater range of spells than a sorceror but they cast fewer spells each day. given the monk/ranger (ie loner on the move wiht minimal equipment) background the sorceror makes more sense. You don't need the spellbooks, you get more actual spells each day (if fewer to choose from) you cast the best of what you do know when you want it as many times (up to your limit for that level) as you want it all without memorizing the exact spells that day. so it fits much better with the monk's philosophy of travel and action - think of it as sort of an expanded version of the monk's special abilities.
Bladesong 08-18-06, 10:04 PM	Nifty. I guess that makes sense.
Bladesong 08-19-06, 01:49 PM	Oh and would bard work instead of sorcerer? It might make more sense with the "singing" aspect of bladesong.
GothicDan 08-19-06, 01:52 PM	Where did you read this? Elaine Cunningham, who created them, has said this. On these boards. Fairly recently. :)
Ashathar 08-19-06, 05:44 PM	Bard seems to be a nice way to get into the Bladesinger class, especially since all the skills required for entry into the class are class skills for a Bard. I almost went Bard/Fighter to recreate my old 2nd Ed. Bladesinger character as a 3E character, but I didn't like the Bard's spell selection for a character with such a martial emphasis, so I scrapped that idea and took the more pleasing (to me) and "pure" Fighter/Wizard route. Still, a level or two (or more) in Bard will make meeting the skill rank requirements for Bladesinger easy if you're so inclined. You're probably still going to want some Fighter levels, though, or enough Wizard levels to take Still Spell as your bonus metamagic feat unless you actually want to use every last feat you get from normal advancement from levels 1-12 on just the feats required to take the Bladesinger class, and then take Bladesinger at level 13 (minimum). Getting the required martial feats out of the way via Fighter levels early on will let you use the feats you get from normal advancement to add some additional flavor/versatility/capability to your character.
GothicDan 08-19-06, 07:53 PM	Swashbuckler seems pretty Elven to me - purely style-wise/mechanically, I mean.
Bladesong 08-20-06, 12:58 AM	Sigh... the drama continues :raincloud . I will be allowed to rebuild my character once again, this time at the cost of 5,000 XP. Does monk10/ranger4/sorcerer1 sound good or should I make it bard? I should start making the history and powers of the moonblade, so which powers should it have? Please help me one more time so as to not to annoy the DM even more (he retrieved his copy of Draconomicon after we talked about this, as I was leaving).
dragonheart 08-20-06, 09:36 AM	THanks GD - that suggests an interesting twist on bladesinger : bard-swashbuckler - I'll have to look those up when I get my books back out of boxes.
Eisel 08-20-06, 10:29 AM	Just on an off note - your GM is aware that you are a first time player, right? Because he should have helped you build your character, offering advice and warnings, and he shouldn't be penalizing you, since you really don't understand what you are doing yet. Sheesh. Back to subject, I'd go with bard . . .but that's me.
Ashathar 08-20-06, 01:53 PM	Sigh... the drama continues :raincloud . I will be allowed to rebuild my character once again, this time at the cost of 5,000 XP. Does monk10/ranger4/sorcerer1 sound good or should I make it bard? I guess that depends on who you want your character to be. How do you imagine him acting both in and out of combat? Is he a graceful, nimble, and deadly spell-slinging warrior who fights in the more traditional ways of the elves, or is he more unconventional? Do you see him as a Bard? Does he appreciate art, music, song, dance and ancient lore to such an extent that being a Bard would make sense for him? Flesh out his personality, behaviors, ambitions, history, etc., then work from there. In my opinion and experience, it really helps to narrow your focus and goals by first nailing down your personal vision of your character separate from the game's mechanics, and then using the game's mechanics to construct this vision and facilitate your role-playing goals. I believe that if you approach building (or re-building) your character with a narrowed focus and distinct goals in mind, you're more likely to build something you'll be satisfied with and are less likely to get dragged down by the tyranny of choices D&D can sometimes present.
Bladesong 08-20-06, 11:14 PM	You're absolutely right. However, I'm worried about giving him TOO much natural talent and so why I'm cautious about giving him sorcerer levels. However, with sorcerer levels, I could also give him the ascetic mage feat to stack the monk/sorcerer levels into my AC. Ah the conflict...
dragonheart 08-21-06, 06:57 AM	Flesh out his personality, behaviors, ambitions, history, etc., then work from there. In my opinion and experience, it really helps to narrow your focus and goals by first nailing down your personal vision of your character separate from the game's mechanics, and then using the game's mechanics to construct this vision and facilitate your role-playing goals. this is always good advice but I'm going to turn things ontheir head a little here. You are a 1st time player and taking on athe full combos of classes is going to lead to some hard ROLE play as it is so I would warn agasint bard - simply too many personality pieces to keep in mind. so monk/ranger/sorceror with ascetic hunter and ascetic mage works well from a mechanics point of view. Save the concept of the monk/ranger/bard/bladesinger for another later character once you have some experience with this one.
Ashathar 08-24-06, 11:11 PM	I agree with dragonheart on it being wise to avoid a Bard as your first character. A character with a more specialized role and simpler set of options and abilities, like a monk, is probably a very good idea until you have a good grasp of the classes and other options available to you and how they all work together.
Riodrian 08-25-06, 12:58 AM	You have 10 levels invested in monk, you might as well pick up level 11 to get the greater flurry...an extra attack is always nice.
Riodrian 08-25-06, 01:01 AM	Or even better, use Shou Disciple from Unapproachable East so you can flurry with your Moonblade.
Bladesong 08-26-06, 03:37 PM	Thanks but it's a little too late. I've already officially rebuilt for the third time. I went with 8 levels in monk and 5 in ranger to get as much as I could out of the ascetic hunter feat. Shou Disciple would have a background conflict with my character. Shou Disciples are residents of Faerun who emulate the unarmed styles of the Shou. However, my character was born in Kara-Tur so he got the real deal training.