Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Green Elven Vampire 08-19-03, 08:30 PM	Okay, it's $30.00!!! Has anyone ran this one? Is it good? It looks great but a quick glance can end up costing me 30 dollars for a crap adventure. I have a group of 8 mid to high level characters. all between 11'th & 15'th level. Should I buy it? What's the mood of this adventure? Thank you everyone! :)
Dargoth 08-19-03, 09:30 PM	I havent run it but it has promise, if your willing to altar it a bit then yes its can be a good module. As written its a bit a slogfest.
Green Elven Vampire 08-19-03, 09:35 PM	Originally posted by Dargoth As written its a bit a slogfest. LoL, and what's a slogfest?
Dargoth 08-19-03, 09:42 PM	Originally posted by Green Elven Vampire LoL, and what's a slogfest? Alot of combat with very little role play (As written)
Sirius_Black 08-20-03, 12:07 AM	Originally posted by Dargoth Alot of combat with very little role play (As written) Excellent summary. If you're a hack and slash gamer pick this up quickly. If you're looking for something with more depth involving roleplaying, you might wish to look elsewhere.
Dargoth 08-20-03, 12:26 AM	Originally posted by Sirius_Black Excellent summary. If you're a hack and slash gamer pick this up quickly. If you're looking for something with more depth involving roleplaying, you might wish to look elsewhere. Im going to alter the module some what For example Im going to replace th Balor with a Pit Fiend (The Mines of Tethymar where invaded by Devils not demons!) Im going to include the Spirals of Manzesine module found in Dungeon Magazine and Im going to use material from"Underdark" when it comes out
Neblin of the Green 08-20-03, 02:05 AM	I bought it, and change alot of the content. Dargoth is correct in saying that its a hack-and-slasher's paradise. As written every single room has the opportunity to burst out in combat. But with tinkering, like removing roper's from a room, and changing some of the traps to normal spell traps or physical traps instead of summon monster traps it becomes quite decent. What saved me so far, has been that my roleplayers are descretion-better-part-of-valor gamers, so not much combat would have happend in the first place. My biggest problem, or not really problem but question, and I actually attempted a thread on this is, is the small maps. How does one use them for combat? But all in all, as an additional source its good, not standalone. IMHO.
Zanan 08-20-03, 03:43 AM	See the link below for some errata and revision thoughts (read the second article of that thread and ignore the German stuff). DnD-Gate (http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate2/media/forum/myforum.php?url=http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate2/de/forum/Forum.html&f=4&t=32295)
kedi 08-20-03, 04:04 AM	Return to the temple of elemental evil, play this, goddes of campaigns, pcs for 4 to 14 I know it's a greyhawk module, but you can stack her with FR, you're the dm!
Masakado 08-20-03, 10:08 AM	I didn't mind the lack of RP hooks because it's up to me as a DM to come up with that stuff anyway. My only gripe is with a few of the rather forced elements of the module. Without giving too much away, lets just say that the party that goes through this adventure without a good cleric is a dead party, and druids will be all but useless. I've run adventures in which there was no cleric in the party, yet the PC's did well. I don't see why this mega module should be any different. It disturbs me when adventures force the notion that there a "magic mix" has to be found in order for parties to be successful.
Zanan 08-20-03, 11:02 AM	Vendui! Masakado, I think there are and should be differences amongst the adventures. This one is clearly made for a strong fighter / cleric or possibly paladin bunch rather than the usual walk through the woods things. A druid is usually useless in the Night Below, as most of his more "effective" spells centre around nature, plants and animals. In the end, nothing is really forced. If the PCs decide to have a look then it is up to them and Tymora, not the adventure. I for one would not change the adventure to suit all the players and their classes in the group. People who do not have a cleric will have to track back and hire one or simply leave the Drow and all that alone. With regards to hooks, one may easily find other (side-) adventures in the portals section of this site.
Masakado 08-20-03, 11:24 AM	Originally posted by Zanan In the end, nothing is really forced. If the PCs decide to have a look then it is up to them and Tymora, not the adventure. I for one would not change the adventure to suit all the players and their classes in the group. People who do not have a cleric will have to track back and hire one or simply leave the Drow and all that alone. Bah. ;) While I agree that breeding in speciality sometimes breeds weakness, there's no reason why Druids, or any other class for that matter, should have to sit out of any scenario. Leaving the Drow alone in that particular scenario isn't exactly a viable, heroic option, given the timetable involved. And the adventure is all but tailor made for a pure cleric. Any dilution of pure clerical skills by PrC's will prove deadly, given the nature of nearly every monster you face in the adventure. I respect your points, but IMHO, the element of "fun" is sapped out of CoTSQ, at least for me, by the obvious slant that the adventure has towards certain classes. Blatant ones, not "law of averages" ones, because I realize that one day, your pyromaniac, fireball-hurling sorcerer will run up against a monster that eats fire for breakfast. There is a distinct difference between leaving your fate up to Tymora, and going though an adventure in which there is some essential element which must be present in the party makeup in order to succeed. Some PC choices should be suicidal, though. I can't imagine the type of masochist it would take to play a Drow Cleric of Lolth in that adventure.
Zanan 08-20-03, 12:41 PM	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Masakado I can't imagine the type of masochist it would take to play a Drow Cleric of Lolth in that adventure. Hey! Why that?!?! People always tell me that clerics are the pick of the bunch even without their spells, for they wear armor and have a decent AB and saves and ... oops. Well well, suddenly someone will realize that a cleric without spells is a pretty useless bystander unless the folk delve into battle again, where his stats can give him a bit of a lift. Anyway, there are not that many adventures who focus around the cleric and thus I still think it's a good one ;) . You see, at long last it's not all guns ... err ... fireballs blazing and and swords gleaming and hiding and sneaking and all that. :D
Donalbain of Deepingdale 08-20-03, 12:46 PM	My party is trough the first part of the adventure and altough their hafling cleric(9/rogue2) of Brandobaris is very useful, i don't think they couldn't have made it trough without him. He is mainly used for buffing and a little healing. But maybe the other parts will proof to be more cleric minded.
Kwyn 08-20-03, 12:49 PM	I know why a drow cleric would be a poor choice, but our group wants to take an all drow party through the adventure. I know that it was created with the intent that you could do so. Considering the limitation you referenced, I don't see how that's possible. We have an additional complication because we're actually going to start a 3.5 group and level them up from scratch and tackle CoTSQ in a few months when we're 10 or so. How do you tell that player, "umm, sorry buddy". Drow druid? :/
Donalbain of Deepingdale 08-20-03, 12:56 PM	Originally posted by Kwyn Considering the limitation you referenced, I don't see how that's possible. We have an additional complication because we're actually going to start a 3.5 group and level them up from scratch and tackle CoTSQ in a few months when we're 10 or so. How do you tell that player, "umm, sorry buddy". Drow druid? :/ There are other drow gods beside Lolth..... try Kiaransalee ;)
Masakado 08-20-03, 01:18 PM	Originally posted by Kwyn I know why a drow cleric would be a poor choice, but our group wants to take an all drow party through the adventure. I know that it was created with the intent that you could do so. Heh, I said it was a suicidal choice, not necessarily a poor one. It'd probably be entertaining purely because such a scenario would provide it's own roleplay. Imagine the satisfaction a Lolthite would receive in not only surviving the adventure, but bringing down the BBEG's. :smirk: I'd shower that player with extra EXP.
Masakado 08-20-03, 01:20 PM	Originally posted by Zanan Anyway, there are not that many adventures who focus around the cleric .. True words, friend Zanan.
Famder 08-20-03, 08:59 PM	I tried this game with an all drow party. There were two divine spell casters. A druid of Malar, I think and a cleric of Lolth. They got down to the second level with only two survivors, the drow wizard who was a red shirt and the suicidal fighter. The druid stopped showing up and the cleric was killed by a fight with the fiendish spider and some undead. The party started with 8 and ended with 2. Since the plot hook I gave them had the matrons saying "We don't want to expend more than we have to so don't come back until you are done" and they were in no shape to continue I ended the campaign there and decided I'd try it some other time when they might actually be capable of surviving. It's not that the battles were too difficult it's just that they rushed further than they should have without resting. And the rogue also happened to light the spider web on fire.
Damned Mage 10-16-03, 06:31 PM	Who says a cleric is required? Currenlty I'm running the campaign, and we're nearly into The Deep Wastes. The party consists of a Gold Elven Bladesinger (Ftr4/Sor4/Bld7), a Werefox Unarmed Rogue (Ftr4/Rog9), and a half-kobold Dragoon (Ftr4/Pal4/Drg7). I chose to start them at level 14 since there are only three (Thus party level 10.5), which gives them a hint of an advantage in the opening, but the lacking of numbers means they're going to have a lot of trouble in the lower regions of Szith Morcane and in most of Maerimydra. You'll note the lack of a true cleric in the party. Our Paladin hasn't used his 'clerical' abilities once (we've not needed them), the Bladesinger carries enough healing potions and wands of clw to act effectively in that capacity, and quite frankly: rope trick kicks bottomside when you need a break ;). They have a Centaur Druidess ally (leader of her tribe) and her tribe of 50 or so Centaurs standing guard at the entrance to the underdark to make sure no baddies make it out of the underdark while they're down there, so the timetable of attacks is rather unimportant. All in all, this party has managed to do the impossible by surviving this far. I've every faith they'll make it the rest of the way through. Why would we want a cleric? They're a waste of weakling god-begging flesh ;).
Celtavian 10-17-03, 02:17 AM	Originally posted by Masakado Bah. ;) While I agree that breeding in speciality sometimes breeds weakness, there's no reason why Druids, or any other class for that matter, should have to sit out of any scenario. Leaving the Drow alone in that particular scenario isn't exactly a viable, heroic option, given the timetable involved. And the adventure is all but tailor made for a pure cleric. Any dilution of pure clerical skills by PrC's will prove deadly, given the nature of nearly every monster you face in the adventure. I respect your points, but IMHO, the element of "fun" is sapped out of CoTSQ, at least for me, by the obvious slant that the adventure has towards certain classes. Blatant ones, not "law of averages" ones, because I realize that one day, your pyromaniac, fireball-hurling sorcerer will run up against a monster that eats fire for breakfast. There is a distinct difference between leaving your fate up to Tymora, and going though an adventure in which there is some essential element which must be present in the party makeup in order to succeed. Some PC choices should be suicidal, though. I can't imagine the type of masochist it would take to play a Drow Cleric of Lolth in that adventure. A druid shouldn't have to sit out, but they should understand that they will have to use different spells and tactics in the Underdark. I don't really understand why you need a good cleric? You using house rules that aren't commonly used in regular D&D? A neutral cleric will work just as well in City of the Spider Queen. The module is very open ended. It even states that running an evil group of drow might be an interesting party for the adventure.
Tankhangen 10-17-03, 11:28 PM	My group is a little more then a quarter of the way through CotSQ, we have 3 Clerics, and we have had 3 deaths so far. Keep in mind the group is much larger then normal at 7 PC's, so my DM has had to tweek things abit.