Common Patron Diety in Roleplaying terms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Common Patron Diety in Roleplaying terms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
meto30
10-12-07, 10:31 PM I'm a Newbie DM. My players and I just started our campaign. We've had a succesful second session yesterday night, and one of my players, who plays a bard, has shown great enthusiasm about role-playing. She had a question about what two characters who both worship Lathander would do about their shared faith. I would like advice on how they make prayers, if they coordinate any joint prayers, and also Lathander's worship in general, because my knowledge is shallow on FR religion.

Last session, as Caila(bard) woke up, she went downstairs and found Joy(cleric) praying for spells. It was at this moment that the bard's player realized his character worshipped the same diety as the cleric, a coincidence even I did not notice, as Caila's patron diety was decided on the fly, in the first session.

Caila watched as Joy finished her prayer, and asked her how was it to serve Lathander as a cleric. Joy never bothered to find out about the party member's religion up to this point, and was surprised and delighted to learn that the bright and talented bard was a comrade in faith.

Caila started asking questions about the church of Lathander - the on-the-fly explanation for this was that she inherited her religion from her father, who was also a bard, and while she knew how to pray to her god and what the god's dogma was, her visits to church was infrequent and brief, and for reasons that Caila doesn't know and is not interested in, her father never taught her the finer aspects of the worship of the Morninglord. Thus, while she believed in the goodness of Lathander, and adhered to the dogma, she did not have intricate knowledge of her religion, and feared she might be deemed false by her god, and also Kelemvor when she faced him in the fugue plane.

Joy calmed her by saying that while she may not know her god's history, she knew his cause truly, and told her that Lathander will know of her commitment to his church, as long as she remained faithful. After that conversation, every morning after Joy and Caila finished their prayers they would converse on Lathander.

Of course, since both players don't know anything about Lathander, it was actually I, the DM, who answered those questions. The time proved useful as a role-playing tool, and I answered any rules question the other players had at this time as well. It was at this time that the party's wizard/sorcerer wrestled with his turbulent inner power (in-game term for the player asking about magic mechanism and difference between wizard and sorcerer magic), the rogue trained by himself in the yard, and a dwarf cleric of Moradin talked about honor in battle with a samurai from Kara-Tur.

But as the session progressed, at one of these mornings Caila's player suddenly asked me,

"Roleplay question. Is what I am doing right? Am I not doing anything wrong? Is it right to have a joint prayer with a cleric, who prays for spells, while I am only a bard and won't gain any spells? Also, is it true that Lathander will deem Caila as faithful?"

To that I had no answer, because I too didn't know anything about Lathander except what is written in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Also, my answers to Caila's question in-game were not drawn from Realmslore but actually my personal religious belief (I am a christian).

If anyone has something to tell me, I'd like to know.

Also, if anyone has suggestions on interesting things that might happen in this party related to religion, I'd like to hear them, too.

For information, the party's race/class/alignment/diety is:

Brottor /male dwarf/cleric/LG/Moradin
Caila /female human/bard/NG/Lathander
Dorn /male gnome/rogue/NG/Tymora
Joy /female human/cleric/NG/Lathander
Quarrion /male elf/wizard,sorcerer/LN/Azuth
Sang-hoon /male human/samurai/LG/Bahamut

Sang-hoon's choice of diety is influenced by backstory, which involves a platinum knight rescuing Sang-hoon (I helped shape it. Sang-hoon's player is yet undecided on wether to persue the class himself or concentrate on Samurai). He has the Dragonfriend feat.
Charles Phipps
10-13-07, 09:41 AM I think, in general, that Priests of Lathander are far less uptight about ritual than most religions in Faerun. As such the clergy praying with the Laity would not be a problem that it might be in certain other religions (and most find it alright anyway).

You sound like you have excellent players and it'd be interesting to use their various deities as opportunities to enjoy potential roleplaying hooks for the religions and perhaps some minor interparty conflict like perhaps some artifact sought by multiple faiths.
The_Shaman
10-13-07, 10:08 AM I wouldn't see any problem with it. Definitely, the cleric would not mind someone else worshipping with her at the same time - heck, as a cleric she might even try to ask a few of her other comrades to join them. Converting other people to your deity's worship would be considered a definite plus in most religions ;). Lathander certainly wouldn't frown on a lay worshipper getting guidance from one of his clergy, either. The only problem that the cleric might find with this is that the bard can be a distraction. Clerics their spells by "meditation", which seems to imply a certain concetration and a personal link between the cleric and the deity. On the other hand, eventually the spells come from the deity, so if it is happy with the cleric what form this "meditation" takes is irrelevent. Given that these "meditations" are supposed to take place at certain times and manner, I'd say 90% of their purpose is to propitiate the deity anyway. The personal meditation can take place at other times.

In your case, I'd say it will practically be a plus - Lathander iirc is very appreciative of things of beauty, including songs, and a joyous paean by both the cleric and the bard would likely only bring further favor upon the cleric. In cases of a more complex problem, I'd say the cleric should try a knowledge (religion) or wisdom check with DC 10 or 15 (it's her own religion, for crying out loud, she studied it for years), but in this case it's only leading a simple ceremony, and as an ordained minister it should be presumed that she knows how to do that just fine. It would be like assigning a DC 5 difficulty and asking her to take 10.
meto30
10-14-07, 07:02 PM Thank you people for your helpful replies.

I think, in general, that Priests of Lathander are far less uptight about ritual than most religions in Faerun. As such the clergy praying with the Laity would not be a problem that it might be in certain other religions (and most find it alright anyway).

Then I will allow them to continue in this pattern.

You sound like you have excellent players and it'd be interesting to use their various deities as opportunities to enjoy potential roleplaying hooks for the religions and perhaps some minor interparty conflict like perhaps some artifact sought by multiple faiths.

Thank you. I agree that I am lucky to have such a promising group of players.

Clerics their spells by "meditation", which seems to imply a certain concetration and a personal link between the cleric and the deity. On the other hand, eventually the spells come from the deity, so if it is happy with the cleric what form this "meditation" takes is irrelevent. Given that these "meditations" are supposed to take place at certain times and manner, I'd say 90% of their purpose is to propitiate the deity anyway. The personal meditation can take place at other times.

My setting book mentions that a cleric of Lathander prays six times a day. Is there a specific rule on when she prays, like Islam? Perhaps there is a sacred land or a headquaters temple?

Converting other people to your deity's worship would be considered a definite plus in most religions.

Ah, yes, that is a great idea. Both clerics are young and energetic characters, so a converting mission will be natural to them. I'll speak of this with my players at next session.

By the way, does anyone know what Lathander's holy symbol is supposed to look like? Is it a wooden replica of the symbol illustrated in FRCS? The symbol entry reads rose, red and yellow gems, which would be too expensive for Joy, and thus I don't believe this is the case.
Charles Phipps
10-14-07, 07:10 PM I think that most Lathander prayers are fairly common "give thanks to the Sun God" type deals as opposed to formalized on your knees type prayer. Lathander's religion is a very ectastic one as opposed to one that relies on regulated tradition.
The_Shaman
10-14-07, 09:12 PM Given both Lathander's portfolio and the information from F&P (some of it also available in wikipedia) I'd say prayers to Lathander are best done at daybreak. You can have them at other times, of course - the Morninglord is hardly a dogmatic deity - but sunrise is held as the best time for honorary ceremonies, and a cleric should devote this time for meditations to Lathander whenever possible.

For a symbol, I think it would be a point of pride for a full cleric to have a symbol similar to what you see in F&P/FRCS. It need not be gem-studded, of course, but it would be good to have at least the same shape. Having an ornate or jeweled one would imo be a point of personal honor, and the cleric should try to have one when possible: beauty is one of the best ways to show the glory of the Morninglord, and who is more fit to display this glory than one of his chosen?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
meto30 10-12-07, 10:31 PM	I'm a Newbie DM. My players and I just started our campaign. We've had a succesful second session yesterday night, and one of my players, who plays a bard, has shown great enthusiasm about role-playing. She had a question about what two characters who both worship Lathander would do about their shared faith. I would like advice on how they make prayers, if they coordinate any joint prayers, and also Lathander's worship in general, because my knowledge is shallow on FR religion. Last session, as Caila(bard) woke up, she went downstairs and found Joy(cleric) praying for spells. It was at this moment that the bard's player realized his character worshipped the same diety as the cleric, a coincidence even I did not notice, as Caila's patron diety was decided on the fly, in the first session. Caila watched as Joy finished her prayer, and asked her how was it to serve Lathander as a cleric. Joy never bothered to find out about the party member's religion up to this point, and was surprised and delighted to learn that the bright and talented bard was a comrade in faith. Caila started asking questions about the church of Lathander - the on-the-fly explanation for this was that she inherited her religion from her father, who was also a bard, and while she knew how to pray to her god and what the god's dogma was, her visits to church was infrequent and brief, and for reasons that Caila doesn't know and is not interested in, her father never taught her the finer aspects of the worship of the Morninglord. Thus, while she believed in the goodness of Lathander, and adhered to the dogma, she did not have intricate knowledge of her religion, and feared she might be deemed false by her god, and also Kelemvor when she faced him in the fugue plane. Joy calmed her by saying that while she may not know her god's history, she knew his cause truly, and told her that Lathander will know of her commitment to his church, as long as she remained faithful. After that conversation, every morning after Joy and Caila finished their prayers they would converse on Lathander. Of course, since both players don't know anything about Lathander, it was actually I, the DM, who answered those questions. The time proved useful as a role-playing tool, and I answered any rules question the other players had at this time as well. It was at this time that the party's wizard/sorcerer wrestled with his turbulent inner power (in-game term for the player asking about magic mechanism and difference between wizard and sorcerer magic), the rogue trained by himself in the yard, and a dwarf cleric of Moradin talked about honor in battle with a samurai from Kara-Tur. But as the session progressed, at one of these mornings Caila's player suddenly asked me, "Roleplay question. Is what I am doing right? Am I not doing anything wrong? Is it right to have a joint prayer with a cleric, who prays for spells, while I am only a bard and won't gain any spells? Also, is it true that Lathander will deem Caila as faithful?" To that I had no answer, because I too didn't know anything about Lathander except what is written in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Also, my answers to Caila's question in-game were not drawn from Realmslore but actually my personal religious belief (I am a christian). If anyone has something to tell me, I'd like to know. Also, if anyone has suggestions on interesting things that might happen in this party related to religion, I'd like to hear them, too. For information, the party's race/class/alignment/diety is: Brottor /male dwarf/cleric/LG/Moradin Caila /female human/bard/NG/Lathander Dorn /male gnome/rogue/NG/Tymora Joy /female human/cleric/NG/Lathander Quarrion /male elf/wizard,sorcerer/LN/Azuth Sang-hoon /male human/samurai/LG/Bahamut Sang-hoon's choice of diety is influenced by backstory, which involves a platinum knight rescuing Sang-hoon (I helped shape it. Sang-hoon's player is yet undecided on wether to persue the class himself or concentrate on Samurai). He has the Dragonfriend feat.
Charles Phipps 10-13-07, 09:41 AM	I think, in general, that Priests of Lathander are far less uptight about ritual than most religions in Faerun. As such the clergy praying with the Laity would not be a problem that it might be in certain other religions (and most find it alright anyway). You sound like you have excellent players and it'd be interesting to use their various deities as opportunities to enjoy potential roleplaying hooks for the religions and perhaps some minor interparty conflict like perhaps some artifact sought by multiple faiths.
The_Shaman 10-13-07, 10:08 AM	I wouldn't see any problem with it. Definitely, the cleric would not mind someone else worshipping with her at the same time - heck, as a cleric she might even try to ask a few of her other comrades to join them. Converting other people to your deity's worship would be considered a definite plus in most religions ;). Lathander certainly wouldn't frown on a lay worshipper getting guidance from one of his clergy, either. The only problem that the cleric might find with this is that the bard can be a distraction. Clerics their spells by "meditation", which seems to imply a certain concetration and a personal link between the cleric and the deity. On the other hand, eventually the spells come from the deity, so if it is happy with the cleric what form this "meditation" takes is irrelevent. Given that these "meditations" are supposed to take place at certain times and manner, I'd say 90% of their purpose is to propitiate the deity anyway. The personal meditation can take place at other times. In your case, I'd say it will practically be a plus - Lathander iirc is very appreciative of things of beauty, including songs, and a joyous paean by both the cleric and the bard would likely only bring further favor upon the cleric. In cases of a more complex problem, I'd say the cleric should try a knowledge (religion) or wisdom check with DC 10 or 15 (it's her own religion, for crying out loud, she studied it for years), but in this case it's only leading a simple ceremony, and as an ordained minister it should be presumed that she knows how to do that just fine. It would be like assigning a DC 5 difficulty and asking her to take 10.
meto30 10-14-07, 07:02 PM	Thank you people for your helpful replies. I think, in general, that Priests of Lathander are far less uptight about ritual than most religions in Faerun. As such the clergy praying with the Laity would not be a problem that it might be in certain other religions (and most find it alright anyway). Then I will allow them to continue in this pattern. You sound like you have excellent players and it'd be interesting to use their various deities as opportunities to enjoy potential roleplaying hooks for the religions and perhaps some minor interparty conflict like perhaps some artifact sought by multiple faiths. Thank you. I agree that I am lucky to have such a promising group of players. Clerics their spells by "meditation", which seems to imply a certain concetration and a personal link between the cleric and the deity. On the other hand, eventually the spells come from the deity, so if it is happy with the cleric what form this "meditation" takes is irrelevent. Given that these "meditations" are supposed to take place at certain times and manner, I'd say 90% of their purpose is to propitiate the deity anyway. The personal meditation can take place at other times. My setting book mentions that a cleric of Lathander prays six times a day. Is there a specific rule on when she prays, like Islam? Perhaps there is a sacred land or a headquaters temple? Converting other people to your deity's worship would be considered a definite plus in most religions. Ah, yes, that is a great idea. Both clerics are young and energetic characters, so a converting mission will be natural to them. I'll speak of this with my players at next session. By the way, does anyone know what Lathander's holy symbol is supposed to look like? Is it a wooden replica of the symbol illustrated in FRCS? The symbol entry reads rose, red and yellow gems, which would be too expensive for Joy, and thus I don't believe this is the case.
Charles Phipps 10-14-07, 07:10 PM	I think that most Lathander prayers are fairly common "give thanks to the Sun God" type deals as opposed to formalized on your knees type prayer. Lathander's religion is a very ectastic one as opposed to one that relies on regulated tradition.
The_Shaman 10-14-07, 09:12 PM	Given both Lathander's portfolio and the information from F&P (some of it also available in wikipedia) I'd say prayers to Lathander are best done at daybreak. You can have them at other times, of course - the Morninglord is hardly a dogmatic deity - but sunrise is held as the best time for honorary ceremonies, and a cleric should devote this time for meditations to Lathander whenever possible. For a symbol, I think it would be a point of pride for a full cleric to have a symbol similar to what you see in F&P/FRCS. It need not be gem-studded, of course, but it would be good to have at least the same shape. Having an ornate or jeweled one would imo be a point of personal honor, and the cleric should try to have one when possible: beauty is one of the best ways to show the glory of the Morninglord, and who is more fit to display this glory than one of his chosen?