| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| daneki12-19-07, 09:10 PM | When if ever are they going to remaster the original forgotten realms video games such as Eye of the Beholder, Secrets of the Silver Blade and all the FR games that were oldies but goodies. |
| Blibbering_Humdinger12-20-07, 12:18 AM | I say the time's ripe for a PS3 remake of the Baldur's Gate series! If they hurry, they may even beat Square Enix's much-rumored but never-to-be FF7 remake to the shelves! :D |
| Storm_Silverhand12-20-07, 12:20 AM | Heya, I hate to be a downer, but I really don't think they'll revisit any of those games... Especially in the light of the release of 4th Edition next year. |
| Lord Karsus12-20-07, 12:50 AM | -Many D&D games (such as Eye of the Beholder) were released for the Game Boy Advance a while ago. |
| Storm_Silverhand12-20-07, 04:07 AM | Heya, -Many D&D games (such as Eye of the Beholder) were released for the Game Boy Advance a while ago. Call me again when they're released for modern PCs (as in circa 2007), Wii, PS3, or Xbox 360. I think that's what the OP was hoping for. |
| Lord Karsus12-20-07, 04:18 AM | Call me again when they're released for modern PCs (as in circa 2007), Wii, PS3, or Xbox 360. -You'll be waiting a long time then. The games (at least EotB) were just rereleased. I doubt if they'll ever be rerereleased. |
| Stigger12-20-07, 07:01 AM | And good riddance, given that they were mired in the mess that was 2e/AD&D, which was even worse than the horror that is 3.x! /sarcasm |
| Storm_Silverhand12-20-07, 07:01 AM | Heya, -You'll be waiting a long time then. The games (at least EotB) were just rereleased. I doubt if they'll ever be rerereleased. I think that's what I was saying... though I'm really surprised there was a version of EotB released for the Gameboy Advance. If we see any CRPG DnD games, they will be new, using new material, and a new game engine (for 4th Edition). |
| Stigger12-20-07, 07:04 AM | And yet still probably won't implement the rules correctly despite all that... |
| Storm_Silverhand12-20-07, 07:42 AM | Heya, And yet still probably won't implement the rules correctly despite all that... Well what do you expect? A computer game is an imperfect medium for an RPG. ;) :) :cool: |
| Mad_Mickelson12-20-07, 08:22 AM | Heya, Well what do you expect? A computer game is an imperfect medium for an RPG. ;) :) :cool: Very true ... but they were fun, hell I just reinstalled Baldur's Gate I TotSC. |
| Stigger12-20-07, 09:43 AM | Heya, Well what do you expect? A computer game is an imperfect medium for an RPG. ;) :) :cool: I want perfection. I want to be able to implement any rule I see fit. I want complete and utter perfection in my CRPG experience. I'm not holding my breath for any of it... :D I want to get some sleep so I can think coherently... damned insomnia. |
| Redrake12-20-07, 05:58 PM | Many of the old GoldenBox SSI games were re-made as modules for NWN1. It is not the same feeling, but for nostalgics is a good call. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-20-07, 07:46 PM | As much as I love games like the BG series, I honestly wouldn't want them to be remade. Not only is it far more likely that any new games will be NEW (as Storm pointed out), but I actually prefer it that way. If I want Baldur's Gate, I'll play it. I want to enjoy NEW stories to play through, as well. |
| Blibbering_Humdinger12-20-07, 11:42 PM | As much as I love games like the BG series, I honestly wouldn't want them to be remade. Not only is it far more likely that any new games will be NEW (as Storm pointed out), but I actually prefer it that way. If I want Baldur's Gate, I'll play it. I want to enjoy NEW stories to play through, as well. Aw, but c'mon! Who wouldn't want to tackle a 3D Sarevok?! Or in the case of ToB, who wouldn't want to be one... :P Actually, I agree. I was kidding. (Though I would buy it if it came out.) I'd rather have an FR game in the new setting with a new story, myself. It would be neat if they made it like Baldur's Gate and similar games, rather than a hack 'n' slash in the neighborhood of the Demon Stone and Dark Alliance titles. They were good in their own way, but I'd like to see a full-blown D&D videogame. Or maybe something in the neighborhood of an action-RPG more like The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion--that'd be an awesome compromise. They could make it for the Wii! The possibilities are endless... we may even see Drizzt and Elminster in the next Smash Bros! :D |
| Storm_Silverhand12-21-07, 08:28 AM | Heya, Actually, I agree. I was kidding. (Though I would buy it if it came out.) I'd rather have an FR game in the new setting with a new story, myself. It would be neat if they made it like Baldur's Gate and similar games, rather than a hack 'n' slash in the neighborhood of the Demon Stone and Dark Alliance titles. They were good in their own way, but I'd like to see a full-blown D&D videogame. Or maybe something in the neighborhood of an action-RPG more like The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion--that'd be an awesome compromise. It would be nice if they made games of the same quality as Baldur's Gate... Here's a quick overview of some of the more recent (since 1998) titles... Keep in mind that this is strictly my opinion, and based on my memory and cursory glance at wikipedia (List of Dungeons and Dragons Computer and Video Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons_computer_and_video_games)). Baldur's Gate 1, TotSC, 2, TOB... Bioware. Wonderful series of games, great RP style play, excellent story, and in the case of BG2/BG2TOB in-depth characterization of the NPCs. Icewind Dale 1 + 2 plus expansions... Black Isle. I never got into them because I felt the games were rather bland story wise, and because you got to design your entire party there was none of the NPC interaction, banter, and so forth you that you could find in Baldur's Gate 2. Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor... Stormfront Studios. Not the gold box game of the same (similar) name, but one launched in conjunction with the 3rd Edition module. I've never played it, and only ever heard bad things about it (ie: very buggy). Neverwinter Nights... Bioware. Bioware's curtian call for the Forgotten Realms. Short game, limited number of NPCs (still excellent stories/characterization, but short, and really not all that in depth), plot holes you could drive a truck through (yes, the BG series had them too, but not anywhere near as large). Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance... BGDA1 Snowblind Studios. BGDA2 Black Isle. Because of the platform, these are action games more than RPGs. Think Gauntlet with a little bit more story. The first game was released before NWN, the second after NWN. Demonstone... Stormfront Studios. Like the Dark Alliance series, this was more an action based game than an RPG, in which you had to play one of three premade characters. Never played it, don't know much about it. Neverwinter Nights 2... Obsidian (some of Black Isle rebadged). I can't say too much for NWN2 really, but from what I have played (not much I have to admit) the game's tone is decidedly darker, the NPCs seem very shallow and two dimensional. I should really dig out the DVD again and give it another try, but it just hasn't got whatever it was that NWN had that caught me so thoroughly (as Stigger can attest, since I met him on the Bioware NWN forums! ;)). Other recent DnD games that aren't FR - Planescape Torment (Black Isle actually did do a CRPG on a par with Bioware's BG series), Temple of Elemental Evil (what a crock that was, bug ridden and censored), Dungeons and Dragons Tactics (PSP game, I know nothing except it got mediocre reviews), Dragonshard (the Eberron RTS), and Stormreach aka Dungeons and Dragons Online (WHO let Turbine get this license?!). Lets face it - the days of BG/PS:T are over. Unless there's a new developer waiting in the wings with the same attention to detail, the games will keep getting simpler and shallower. Personally, I probably wouldn't care that much since I think Dungeons and Dragons is best experienced around a table with your friends (or even over the internet, via IRC or other client that facilitates an electronic version of pencil and paper - with players and a DM). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-21-07, 11:10 AM | Actually, I agree. I was kidding. (Though I would buy it if it came out.) Me too, I have to admit.:) I'm enough of a fan. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-21-07, 11:13 AM | Neverwinter Nights... Bioware. Bioware's curtian call for the Forgotten Realms. Short game, limited number of NPCs (still excellent stories/characterization, but short, and really not all that in depth), plot holes you could drive a truck through (yes, the BG series had them too, but not anywhere near as large). Neverwinter Nights 2... Obsidian (some of Black Isle rebadged). I can't say too much for NWN2 really, but from what I have played (not much I have to admit) the game's tone is decidedly darker, the NPCs seem very shallow and two dimensional. I should really dig out the DVD again and give it another try, but it just hasn't got whatever it was that NWN had that caught me so thoroughly (as Stigger can attest, since I met him on the Bioware NWN forums! ;)). To be fair, there is a LOT more to these games than just the official campaigns that come with them. NWN1, for example, has some FR premium modules, and countless single player modules online for players to choose from (and many fan-made games actually feel very professional). I've played many of them, and therefore I can say my FR-experience via NWN has been top-notch. Whether one likes the included campaigns or not (and truth be told, even the game's designers know that is the game's attraction for the average buyer), they are just the tip of the iceberg. Whether you want to play online, play by yourself (my preference), or design your own games, there are tons of options there for you. |
| Storm_Silverhand12-21-07, 06:26 PM | Heya, To be fair, there is a LOT more to these games than just the official campaigns that come with them. NWN1, for example, has some FR premium modules, and countless single player modules online for players to choose from (and many fan-made games actually feel very professional). I've played many of them, and therefore I can say my FR-experience via NWN has been top-notch. You've been lucky then. There's at least one or two of the premium modules that aren't FR specific, and you have to be very picky about user made content... for every diamond, there's a hundred pieces of... umm... coal. The engines behind both games are very good though, and have an amazing amount of potential... I think Bioware caught onto the BG modding community, and decided to make it even easier for people to come up with their own content (a concept Obsidian followed through on). Whether one likes the included campaigns or not (and truth be told, even the game's designers know that is the game's attraction for the average buyer), they are just the tip of the iceberg. Whether you want to play online, play by yourself (my preference), or design your own games, there are tons of options there for you. I got the impression that the OC for the original NWN, at least, was rushed because they were concentrating more on the Aurora engine/toolset, and therefore the OC was more of an afterthought. But you are right, there is a lot of potential. |
| Stigger12-21-07, 07:38 PM | I have to admit, that despite NWN2 being much prettier, I still prefer NWN1 for some unknown reason. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-21-07, 08:34 PM | Heya, You've been lucky then. There's at least one or two of the premium modules that aren't FR specific, and you have to be very picky about user made content... for every diamond, there's a hundred pieces of... umm... coal. But the good stuff is very easy to find, in my opinion. :) That's not to say I've never played any "duds", but I think if one is pretty discerning, knows what kind of game they are looking for, and asks other NWN fans for advice, they can find a lot of great games. I got the impression that the OC for the original NWN, at least, was rushed because they were concentrating more on the Aurora engine/toolset, and therefore the OC was more of an afterthought. But you are right, there is a lot of potential. Indeed, although I certainly don't disagree with you regarding the original NWN OC. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-21-07, 08:35 PM | I have to admit, that despite NWN2 being much prettier, I still prefer NWN1 for some unknown reason. NWN2 is great in a lot of ways, but I can say that the loading time's a b*tch. And that's coming from someone who has a relatively new, pretty fast computer. |
| Stigger12-22-07, 11:35 AM | Doesn't take that long for me... 10-15 seconds or so at most. GR:AW 2 is a lot slower for me. |
| Redrake12-22-07, 12:48 PM | Other recent DnD games that aren't FR - Planescape Torment (Black Isle actually did do a CRPG on a par with Bioware's BG series), Temple of Elemental Evil (what a crock that was, bug ridden and censored), Dungeons and Dragons Tactics (PSP game, I know nothing except it got mediocre reviews), Dragonshard (the Eberron RTS), and Stormreach aka Dungeons and Dragons Online (WHO let Turbine get this license?!). Both Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment were made by Black Isle Studios. Bioware were the ones who owned the Infinity Engine, engine used in all the games including Icewind Dale games. It's just that in Baldur's Gate series, Bioware was involved in designing the game too. But the main work was done by BIS not Bioware. And Icewind Dale games are not bad at all. Sure they are more action oriented than Baldur's Gate, but they do have a very good feeling. The problem with Baldur's Gate games was that they were limited to human communities. Other races like dwarves or elves were barely touched. Also item-wise were very predictable, there were no random drops when it came to magical items. I never played NWN2, my computer is not that advanced. NWN1 otoh, I played a lot, despite the fact is not on par with the old BIS games. Not the original campaigns of NWN1, but rather various custom modules. I tend to play the modules that are set in Forgotten Realms for obvious reasons. Blackguard is without a doubt my favorite module, despite the fact that I do not usually play evil characters.:) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-23-07, 05:27 PM | And Icewind Dale games are not bad at all. Sure they are more action oriented than Baldur's Gate, but they do have a very good feeling. The problem with Baldur's Gate games was that they were limited to human communities. Other races like dwarves or elves were barely touched. Also item-wise were very predictable, there were no random drops when it came to magical items. Well, BG1 had the halfling village of Gullykin. And BG2 had the drow city. And the sahuagin city. And the deep gnome village. And the elven city... I do agree, though that the Icewind Dale games had a great atmosphere--however, I thought IWD1 was a lot more fun than IWD2. |
| GoldDragon12-23-07, 07:38 PM | Neverwinter Nights... Bioware. Bioware's curtian call for the Forgotten Realms. Short game, limited number of NPCs (still excellent stories/characterization, but short, and really not all that in depth), plot holes you could drive a truck through (yes, the BG series had them too, but not anywhere near as large). Neverwinter Nights 2... Obsidian (some of Black Isle rebadged). I can't say too much for NWN2 really, but from what I have played (not much I have to admit) the game's tone is decidedly darker, the NPCs seem very shallow and two dimensional. I should really dig out the DVD again and give it another try, but it just hasn't got whatever it was that NWN had that caught me so thoroughly (as Stigger can attest, since I met him on the Bioware NWN forums! ;)). Lets face it - the days of BG/PS:T are over. Unless there's a new developer waiting in the wings with the same attention to detail, the games will keep getting simpler and shallower. Personally, I probably wouldn't care that much since I think Dungeons and Dragons is best experienced around a table with your friends (or even over the internet, via IRC or other client that facilitates an electronic version of pencil and paper - with players and a DM). Uh,um THe Aurora RPG Gaming Engine and RPG Campaign development tools were designed to make so that a DM could make a campaign and make it where the game could be run without the DM intervention, partially with DM interverntion, or fully with DM intervention on a Single computer, Network of computers, or on the internet (making a Kaza P2p type linking) and thus is meant primarily as a means to bring D&D from Pen and Paper to the Desktiop and internet. I still say that is was folly to call the grouping of the Aurora RPG Gaming engine and RPG Campaign Development tools and the Demo module that was packaged with it to show what can be done with it after it's Demo Campaign Module Name "Neverwinter Nights" as it made it confused to be "just another game" I have played Fan made Campaign Modules in the NWN Comunity that were 10x better to 100x better then any of the "Offical Campains"...also played some very sucky campaign modules that made the OC seem "deep and Meaningful"...lol (Gauntlet and Golden AXe remakes in NWN..lol) I have also seen Persistant worlds made with "Neverwinter Nights" that knock the socks off of the older persistant worlds, and with NWN2 they can be visually comparable to World of Warcraft, Everquest,etc (Have to admit, NWN's graphics are "dated") |
| Storm_Silverhand12-23-07, 08:33 PM | Heya, THe Aurora RPG Gaming Engine and RPG Campaign development tools were designed to make so that a DM could make a campaign and make it where the game could be run without the DM intervention, partially with DM interverntion, or fully with DM intervention on a Single computer, Network of computers, or on the internet (making a Kaza P2p type linking) and thus is meant primarily as a means to bring D&D from Pen and Paper to the Desktiop and internet. And, like any Computer RPG, still does a poor job. The fact that it is a computer game makes it far too limited. To expand on that... If you're playing an RPG, you are only limited by your imagination on what you could do. Computer games can't emulate this, because you're always limited to what the game is programmed to be capable of. For example, you walk into a cave with kobolds in it... In a Computer RPG, you're limited to whatever actions the game will allow you to take - if the kobolds are hostile, you'll probably fight them. If the kobolds have been programmed to converse with you, you will be able to converse with them, but if they're not then you can't. If you have a DM running the module, and that DM is right on the ball, then it might be possible that you can negotiate with them if the DM possesses one of the kobolds, but that requires you have a DM running the module, who is right on the ball. In a pencil and paper RPG, the DM asks you what are you going to do, and then runs all the kobolds based on your actions. Don't get me wrong, I actually like CRPGs, but they don't hold a candle to pencil and paper games as far as actual Role Playing goes. I still say that is was folly to call the grouping of the Aurora RPG Gaming engine and RPG Campaign Development tools and the Demo module that was packaged with it to show what can be done with it after it's Demo Campaign Module Name "Neverwinter Nights" as it made it confused to be "just another game" They had to sell it somehow, and not everyone is interested in the engine and construction kit. Despite the fact that the OC was seriously lacking in depth, it still managed to draw me into it, and I'm not the only one. And I have to say the OC for NWN was way better than the OC for NWN2 IMHO, at least as far as catching my imagination... I played all the way through the OC for NWN, but I have yet to do the same for NWN2, and it's almost a year later (got NWN2 for Christmas last year). I have played Fan made Campaign Modules in the NWN Comunity that were 10x better to 100x better then any of the "Offical Campains"...also played some very sucky campaign modules that made the OC seem "deep and Meaningful"...lol (Gauntlet and Golden AXe remakes in NWN..lol) Well people keep saying they've played great modules for NWN, but I've yet to see anyone name a single one. (And yes, that's a hint! ;)) I have also seen Persistant worlds made with "Neverwinter Nights" that knock the socks off of the older persistant worlds, and with NWN2 they can be visually comparable to World of Warcraft, Everquest,etc (Have to admit, NWN's graphics are "dated") I don't like persistent worlds. Many NWN PWs hopped onto the HCR bandwagon, and turned me off them for life. (Seriously, I get enough of a grind in my MMOs, without having NWN/DnD turn into one long grind fest... which is essentially what the HCR stuff did.) As for graphics comparable to WoW or EQ2 (that's what I presume you mean, since EQ is very dated now even with its revamped engine)... Apples and Oranges... WoW is cartoony, EQ2 is photo "realistic", NWN2 is neither of them (which isn't to say it's bad, I think the NWN2 graphics engine is superb, and I loved the look of the game... pity about the campaign that was packaged with it.) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-23-07, 09:52 PM | I still say that is was folly to call the grouping of the Aurora RPG Gaming engine and RPG Campaign Development tools and the Demo module that was packaged with it to show what can be done with it after it's Demo Campaign Module Name "Neverwinter Nights" as it made it confused to be "just another game" To be fair, as I stated before the official campaign isn't just a "demo module", it's the MAIN ATTRACTION for most potential buyers in the first place. Bioware has stated on their forums that most people ONLY play the included campaigns, period. If the NWN games were sold without an official game to play and just had tools for makings one's own game, not nearly as many units would be sold, because only a tiny percentage of NWN buyers make their own games. I do agree, though, that the official campaigns are just the tip of the iceberg, whether they are great games or not. I have played Fan made Campaign Modules in the NWN Comunity that were 10x better to 100x better then any of the "Offical Campains" Same here. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-23-07, 10:26 PM | Well people keep saying they've played great modules for NWN, but I've yet to see anyone name a single one. (And yes, that's a hint! ;)) OK. I'll name stuff off the top of my head, although I AM on hiatus from NWN right now and the modules I've played aren't fresh in my mind. I won't try to name them all, either, because I've played so many I'm bound to forget a good number of them (and of course, I have played a few "duds", or modules that were OK but not particularly notable): All modules which aren't FR will be noted as such. All modules I'm listing are also NWN1 modules. All the premium modules, which can be purchased from Bioware's online store, are worth playing: --Wyvern Crown of Cormyr --Pirates of the Sword Coast --Infinite Dungeons (haven't played this one, though--from what I've read it's light on roleplaying and heavy on loot collecting) --Witch's Wake (not FR) --ShadowGuard (not FR) --Kingmaker (not FR) Some awesome community modules: --Saleron's Gambit series --Darkness over Daggerford --Bloodright: The Blood Royal (not FR) --The Hex Coda series(won't ever be finished, but it's highly unique and lots of fun; not FR) --Tradegy in Tragedor --Shadowlords/Dreamcatcher/Demon (very famous, but the older mods in the series are really old and will feel unpolished) --Black Thorn --CC1 and CC2 --Alazander's series: Siege of Shadowdale, Crimson Tides of Tethyr, Tyrants of the Moonsea --An Ancient Heart series --Sanctum of the Archmage series (not FR) --Tales of the Sundering series (not FR) --Avertine: A Nation Dreamed (not FR) --The Prophet series (not FR) --The Rose of Eternity (not FR) --Dragon's Edge --Cormyrean Nights --Caereena--Krakona Rising (not FR) --The Slavelord series (not FR--in fact, it's Greyhawk) --Lords of Darkness (not FR) --A Dance with Rogues series (not FR--highly popular but I must warn you, it features highly mature and controversial stuff in it; and I don't just mean it has sex in it, it can be much gritter than that...) --Almraiven --Dragon Dominant (not FR) --Tale of a Mage (not FR) --Perchance to Dream (you star as Khelben, believe it or not) --The Island, Revamped --Sands of Fate series (begins in FR, but takes place on a totally different world) --Tales of Arterra series (not FR) --Island Adventures series --Torslunda --Runes of Blood (not FR) --Midwinter Festival/Midsummer Knight's Dream/Midnight Calling (not FR) --A Hunt through the Dark series (play as a drow!) --Dastard's Morrow--Maiden Voyage (not FR) --Twilight/Midnight (not FR) --The Aielund Saga (not FR) --The Neverwinter Snowflake series by Sethai All of these modules are widely different (for example, not *all* of them are focused on heavy roleplaying) but these are ones that I recall be very good for what they were supposed to be. Remember also that the older the module, the less likely it is to be polished. Hope that helps. As you might see, a lot of great modules take place in Cormyr, a place you like.:) |
| Storm_Silverhand12-23-07, 11:04 PM | Heya, All of these modules are widely different (for example, not *all* of them are focused on heavy roleplaying) but these are ones that I recall be very good for what they were supposed to be. Remember also that the older the module, the less likely it is to be polished. Hope that helps. As you might see, a lot of great modules take place in Cormyr, a place you like.:) *cuts and pastes list to notepad then prints it off* Thank you very much for that! :) I shall check them out in the new year, I think. I presume they can be found on NWN Vault? |
| Redrake12-24-07, 07:00 AM | Don't forget about Blackguard Trilogy. Is one of the few modules that allows you to fight some Chosen of Mystra (Storm Silverhand :D ). |
| Storm_Silverhand12-24-07, 07:36 AM | Heya, Don't forget about Blackguard Trilogy. Is one of the few modules that allows you to fight some Chosen of Mystra (Storm Silverhand :D ). :P Meh. I'm not that interested in playing evil. I find it quite draining, even though I'm told I do a pretty good job. The only time I really want to play evil is if I'm DMing, and even then I'm secretly rooting for the PCs. When playing NWN and NWN2, I keep finding my character's alignments slowly being tugged towards Lawful and Good... Most of the time it is because the authors of the game modules (OC or otherwise) don't seem to have a really good grasp of the alignment system, particularly the Law/Chaos axis... Somehow Chaotic is equated with stealing, cheating, lying, and otherwise breaking the law. |
| GoldDragon12-24-07, 08:13 AM | Heya, Well people keep saying they've played great modules for NWN, but I've yet to see anyone name a single one. (And yes, that's a hint! ) Well off the top of my head some of my favorites were Return to Ravenloft http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3823 Return to Ravenloft 2 http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3990#Files THe Nether Scrolls http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=2385 I myself have a "tinkering" Module known as "Meril's Wayward Star" http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=16360&id=4197 that is used mostly as a way to equipt and go into any of the OC chapters, any module you name "redgate","Greengate" or "Bluegate" or any Module whose name you type exactly into the Shout/talk bar in the "stargate", as well as level-up or level down the PC with the trainer or get money from the Merchant.....as a bonus there are the OCs and alternative Hechies you can take into Chapter 2 HOTU, a Demo Module of OCs in CHapter 3 HOtu, and Deekin piloting a BattleMech in the "Lantan Lab" that can be taken into Chapter 2 or 3 HOtu...lol I know most people in the community usually use the module for those perks alone but there are a lot of talkative NPCs in there that have a lot to talk about not related to the OC trying to "flesh out" Meril's Wayward Star and it's Merchant Depots that span across the different worlds on different plane with their liitle problems that your PC can help solve...."Boring as a English Talkie" was the most amusing response Really do wonder how many people met the Interplainiar Assasin waiting for Oliandra in vain or the Black Dragon being experimented on by a insane Scientist type? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-24-07, 09:27 AM | Don't forget about Blackguard Trilogy. Is one of the few modules that allows you to fight some Chosen of Mystra (Storm Silverhand :D ). I never tried that, and because I'm not fond of playing evil PCs (OR fighting Chosen) I don't intend to try it either. The Gods Themselves trilogy is highly rated and seems pretty good, but I didn't put it on my list because I never tried it for the reasons mentioned above--it's an "evil" game (not "soft" evil either), and you wind up being the enemy of Mystra and Eilistraee, AND fighting (and most likely killing) the Simbul. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-24-07, 09:29 AM | Heya, *cuts and pastes list to notepad then prints it off* Thank you very much for that! :) I shall check them out in the new year, I think. I presume they can be found on NWN Vault? You're welcome!:) And yes, they are all on the Neverwinter Vault. Check out the module pages and see what ones sound interesting to you. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-24-07, 09:33 AM | Heya, :P Meh. I'm not that interested in playing evil. I find it quite draining, even though I'm told I do a pretty good job. The only time I really want to play evil is if I'm DMing, and even then I'm secretly rooting for the PCs. As I mentioned before, I feel much the same as you do regarding evil PCs, so modules designed solely around being evil aren't on my list. When playing NWN and NWN2, I keep finding my character's alignments slowly being tugged towards Lawful and Good... Most of the time it is because the authors of the game modules (OC or otherwise) don't seem to have a really good grasp of the alignment system, particularly the Law/Chaos axis... Somehow Chaotic is equated with stealing, cheating, lying, and otherwise breaking the law. I agree with you SO much here it's not even funny. I always prefer it when modules just leave PC alignments alone. There are some great ones that don't, but I always give a module "points" when it leaves my PC's alignment up to ME. |
| Redrake12-25-07, 01:18 PM | Heya, :P Meh. I'm not that interested in playing evil. I find it quite draining, even though I'm told I do a pretty good job. The only time I really want to play evil is if I'm DMing, and even then I'm secretly rooting for the PCs. When playing NWN and NWN2, I keep finding my character's alignments slowly being tugged towards Lawful and Good... Most of the time it is because the authors of the game modules (OC or otherwise) don't seem to have a really good grasp of the alignment system, particularly the Law/Chaos axis... Somehow Chaotic is equated with stealing, cheating, lying, and otherwise breaking the law. I do not like playing evil either. However, that module is without a doubt my favorite in NWN1. The module is heavy on roleplaying and evil makes so much sense in there. Besides, you can kill Drizzt and with so much pleasure.:D |
| Storm_Silverhand12-25-07, 05:25 PM | Heya, I do not like playing evil either. However, that module is without a doubt my favorite in NWN1. The module is heavy on roleplaying and evil makes so much sense in there. Besides, you can kill Drizzt and with so much pleasure.:D I'm not interested in killing NPCs of the Realms either. More often than not, I like the NPCs of the Realms... While Drizzt is one I'm neutral about, I hardly feel the urge to make a character just to kill him. |
| Fire_Wraith12-25-07, 08:37 PM | Neverwinter Nights and NWN2 are definitely more of a framework for building adventures, rather than a standalone. The initial campaigns that come with them both don't really live up to what is possible (though the expansion campaign for NWN2, Mask of the Betrayer, looks interesting so far). There are definitely a lot of good modules out there, many of them on NWVault. I'd also recommend checking out Wyvern Crown of Cormyr. As far as Persistent Worlds go, there is a lot of potential, though I'd agree that many fall short of what it could be. I have a wealth of opinions on the subject - the reason I finally got a group of friends together and started one was because I'd seen so many that fell short in my eyes, and I decided we could do it better. You're right in that tabletop gaming will always have more flexibility in what's possible. However, there are a variety of things a good online group game can manage that aren't possible with tabletop. Geographic distance and scheduling conflicts are just one example. I haven't had the opportunity to play in a regular tabletop group in years, but I've been able to stay very active online. I dislike the HCR, and a number of other common conventions I've seen in a lot of NWN gameworlds. We play to have fun, first and foremost - and why obsess about things like making the game "hard", when that winds up failing to make the game less fun? That's not to say there shouldn't be challenges, as getting things too easily gets boring fast. However, the overall ideal is roleplaying, creating storylines (both individual and larger overall stories), and having fun in the process. Of course, I (and others) put a lot of work into not only building the world, but also in making it work with updated rules, adding in 3.5e support, more spells, feats, prestige classes, and so on, which really isn't something the casual average DM could do... but then, one Persistent World server can support a lot more players and DMs than just one standard gaming group. |
| Storm_Silverhand12-26-07, 02:05 AM | Heya, There are definitely a lot of good modules out there, many of them on NWVault. I'd also recommend checking out Wyvern Crown of Cormyr. Might be the first one I check out then. :) (Yes, I know I'll need to pay for it. :)) You're right in that tabletop gaming will always have more flexibility in what's possible. However, there are a variety of things a good online group game can manage that aren't possible with tabletop. Geographic distance and scheduling conflicts are just one example. I haven't had the opportunity to play in a regular tabletop group in years, but I've been able to stay very active online. There are plenty of tools already available to help DMs and players run traditional pencil and paper style games over the internet... Sure there are a few things it lacks (like being able to see your friends faces and body language), but as a general rule, it's just as flexible as playing around a table. (I've played in one game (d20 Modern) run over IRC and using add ons for mIRC to roll dice so everyone can see them, it was very cool... but then the DM stopped running the game due to illness. :() NWN/NWN2 are only one step away from MMORPG style play (you subtract the M for Massive from the acronym), basically. I haven't ever played in a NWN/NWN2 game with an active DM (at least not that I remember!), so I'm not sure what that might change, but just playing a module with your friends is quite similar to playing multiplayer Diablo 2. (Most modules I've played seem to be designed with a single player in mind, and don't translate to multiplayer very well.) I dislike the HCR, and a number of other common conventions I've seen in a lot of NWN gameworlds. We play to have fun, first and foremost - and why obsess about things like making the game "hard", when that winds up failing to make the game less fun? That's not to say there shouldn't be challenges, as getting things too easily gets boring fast. However, the overall ideal is roleplaying, creating storylines (both individual and larger overall stories), and having fun in the process. The idea behind HCR was to make the game "more like pencil and paper" and it fell way short. All it did was turn the game into an unfun grindfest. :( Of course, I (and others) put a lot of work into not only building the world, but also in making it work with updated rules, adding in 3.5e support, more spells, feats, prestige classes, and so on, which really isn't something the casual average DM could do... but then, one Persistent World server can support a lot more players and DMs than just one standard gaming group. Maybe I'll check your PW out one day, if it's still going? :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-26-07, 11:42 AM | Heya, Might be the first one I check out then. :) (Yes, I know I'll need to pay for it. :)) I think it's definitely worth the money.:) In fact, all the premium modules are probably worth the money, considering you'll get several hours worth of entertainment for (usually) less than 10 dollars. One thing, though, in case you didn't know--all the premium modules require you to be online whenever you load them up, because that's when the game is "authorized" to prevent piracy. Just letting you know because it annoys some people. |
| Stigger12-26-07, 12:38 PM | Glad I never bought any then... |
| Fire_Wraith12-26-07, 01:56 PM | NWN/NWN2 are only one step away from MMORPG style play (you subtract the M for Massive from the acronym), basically. I haven't ever played in a NWN/NWN2 game with an active DM (at least not that I remember!), so I'm not sure what that might change, but just playing a module with your friends is quite similar to playing multiplayer Diablo 2. (Most modules I've played seem to be designed with a single player in mind, and don't translate to multiplayer very well.) Having an active DM makes for a world of difference. There are only a limited amount of creative solutions available in a pre-built module, and there's no way to deal with the needs or wants of individual players. ("Forget fighting those goblins, let's go see what's over in that ruined castle") The way ours works (and a few others have taken similar paradigms) is a mixture of freestyle play and session-based. DMs run both scheduled and ad-hoc sessions, and players are free to roleplay, plot, and scheme in the interim, as well as visit any number of open dungeons, explore the world, etc. The xp/leveling system is designed to reflect this. You can only "grind" freely on monsters at the first few levels. The higher in level you go, you start needing increasing amounts of experience from DM awards (for roleplaying, plot participation awards, character development awards, etc) to go up in level. By level 13, you can no longer gain even a fraction of your experience from killing monsters - it has to come entirely from DM awards. The idea behind HCR was to make the game "more like pencil and paper" and it fell way short. All it did was turn the game into an unfun grindfest. :( Agreed. Some rules that make sense in a pencil and paper game just don't translate to the computer well. Combat is a good example. In tabletop, you have time to think out what your character plans to do, and take that action. That's just not the case in a real-time or near real-time computer game, even if lag, latency, and connection problems don't come into play. This isn't to say it's impossible, just that you have to understand the issues that a different medium is going to introduce. Maybe I'll check your PW out one day, if it's still going? :) You're more than welcome to - feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions. :D |
| Birdman07612-29-07, 12:18 AM | I've been lurking here a bit from time to time and felt that this subject is something I should chime in on. I started with PnP back about 16 years ago, I have played every Crpg game available and cannot stand the new "trend" of cookie cutter MMORPGs which have less to do with RPG then most FPS games. Someone figured out a formula for todays A.D.D. youth that puts them in a game where they can hack and slash thier way to top level at thier leisure and called it oddly enough an MMORPG. Every game coming out on the horizon is following this format and I for one find it very disturbing as I like to use my brain when I play RPGs. I too fell in love with NWN 1 for its content creating ability, not for the OC or any of the expansions. They lacked depth, originality, imagination, and creativity but there were some high points to them. I have been playing NWN since it released and I have tried all Genre's of the game with the exception of "alternative" (just don't need to roleplay that aspect of my life). I too felt the same way, in that most of the available mods are lacking, fall very short, didn't live up to thier full potential, or just plain sucked. The tools and modifications available to the NWN community make practically anything you can think of possible with the game. Your scenario for instance with the goblin, that can be done through modifide AI engines that are available for download on the vault. Olanders system for instance has provisions for creature fleeing, factioning, behavior, regrouping, ambushing, and pretty much any other scenario a crafty DM could think up. With the enhancesments done on 3rd party software (Leto, NWNx, etc) you can make any change to anything in the game almost always on the fly with very few exceptions. What I'm getting at is the tools are not the limitation, the engine is not the limitation, the imagination and ingenuity of the people creating the worlds are the limitations. Everyone said modules couldn't go over 16,000 resources 3 years ago, guess what Haks don't count as resources and there are modules 2 and 3 times the 16,000 resource limit running fine with 0 issues and 90 players on thier servers. My own plans for a world myself and my team are creating are very robust in nature. I like some of HCR and other systems therefore we use what we like and disgard the rest. Example: using a bedroll and campfire to rest is part of the submersion, having to eat food and drink water every x amount of game time or die is part of an annoyance. I guess what I'm trying to say is that NWN offers people the ability to form a realm, world, cosmos, setting, campaign, or whatever to thier liking however they may envision it. My thoughts on NWN 2: I relate NWN 2 to one of those pick your path books that is already done for you. The walkmesh issues with NWN 2 only allow you to paint a pathway through areas, not make the whole area walkable. Kind of kills the free form feeling of a world when you can only stay on the path and not venture to the trees to check out that odd humming sound eminating from them? I'll stick with NWN 1 and the vast plethora of addons available for it. One more thing to address, the dated graphics. There are groups working on reskinning NWN 1 to bring it more up to date graphically, below is a link to one such gentleman who's work is in our world. http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=6631 The screeshots are nice, but walking around or riding a horse in the areas in game is breathtaking. And finally we are looking for a writer or three to help with our project. Background, conversations, history, pretty much everything to immerse the players in the world. I'll pop in from time to time now that I'm registered. :D |
| Storm_Silverhand12-29-07, 02:08 AM | Heya, I've been lurking here a bit from time to time and felt that this subject is something I should chime in on. I started with PnP back about 16 years ago, I have played every Crpg game available and cannot stand the new "trend" of cookie cutter MMORPGs which have less to do with RPG then most FPS games. Someone figured out a formula for todays A.D.D. youth that puts them in a game where they can hack and slash thier way to top level at thier leisure and called it oddly enough an MMORPG. Every game coming out on the horizon is following this format and I for one find it very disturbing as I like to use my brain when I play RPGs. *sigh* Always the bashing. I play a number of MMORPGs and I don't feel that I am suffering from Attention Deficit Disorder, or lack in imagination or brains. I just happen to like social games, and MMORPGs fit the niche nicely... At the moment I'm playing World of Warcraft, EverQuest 2, Pirates of the Burning Sea (beta), and Star Wars Galaxies... More heavily concentrating on EQ2 and PotBS right now (since they're both SOE games, and I have an all access pass) - but I most definitely wouldn't call any of them "cookie cutter" games, since they're all very different... In fact, there's three different genres represented right there (Fantasy (x2), Historical/Pirates, and Science Fiction)... Anyway, obviously these games aren't for you... But you are just one person, and there's a lot of people out there who happen to enjoy them. It doesn't mean that they are stupid, lacking in imagination, or have short attention spans - all of which you implied in your post. I too fell in love with NWN 1 for its content creating ability, not for the OC or any of the expansions. They lacked depth, originality, imagination, and creativity but there were some high points to them. I have been playing NWN since it released and I have tried all Genre's of the game with the exception of "alternative" (just don't need to roleplay that aspect of my life). I too felt the same way, in that most of the available mods are lacking, fall very short, didn't live up to thier full potential, or just plain sucked. The tools and modifications available to the NWN community make practically anything you can think of possible with the game. Your scenario for instance with the goblin, that can be done through modifide AI engines that are available for download on the vault. Olanders system for instance has provisions for creature fleeing, factioning, behavior, regrouping, ambushing, and pretty much any other scenario a crafty DM could think up. With the enhancesments done on 3rd party software (Leto, NWNx, etc) you can make any change to anything in the game almost always on the fly with very few exceptions. What I'm getting at is the tools are not the limitation, the engine is not the limitation, the imagination and ingenuity of the people creating the worlds are the limitations. Everyone said modules couldn't go over 16,000 resources 3 years ago, guess what Haks don't count as resources and there are modules 2 and 3 times the 16,000 resource limit running fine with 0 issues and 90 players on thier servers. My own plans for a world myself and my team are creating are very robust in nature. I like some of HCR and other systems therefore we use what we like and disgard the rest. Example: using a bedroll and campfire to rest is part of the submersion, having to eat food and drink water every x amount of game time or die is part of an annoyance. I guess what I'm trying to say is that NWN offers people the ability to form a realm, world, cosmos, setting, campaign, or whatever to thier liking however they may envision it. You also presume a lot here. First of all, you're expecting every fan of NWN to be a technical wizard, or have the time and patience (and bandwidth and computing power) to piece together a good game. You're also assuming that a lot of people run games with DMs, or play them with a group of friends, neither of which is true (the vast majority of NWN players played the OC and that was it, some play user created modules as stand alone single player games, and a minority play PWs with DMs or have played modules with a group of friends one of which is a DM). You also imply that anyone who doesn't have the time, patience, or technical know how somehow lacks imagination. Honestly, IMHO, preparing a table top game is easier, requires far less time investment, and lacks any of the limitations of a computer based game engine (yes, I still maintain the game engine is limited - adding a DM to the equation frees it up only marginally IMHO... If you want to swing from a chandelier down into a tavern tap room to rescue that cute guy from the half ogress pawing at him, you can't do it since there's no option for swinging on a chandelier... Or if you want to climb a tree to look over yonder hill to see where the orcish forces are, you can't in NWN, since there's no option to climb a tree... I could go on, but I think you probably see my point by now). And finally we are looking for a writer or three to help with our project. Background, conversations, history, pretty much everything to immerse the players in the world. I'll pop in from time to time now that I'm registered. :D Good luck with that. |
| Stigger12-29-07, 02:16 AM | Somehow I have a hard time seeing you swinging from a chandelier to rescue a cute guy Zandi... :P |
| Birdman07612-29-07, 10:20 AM | I certainly hoped no one took it as bashing but there is always someone who is offended by ones point of view. Cookie cutter meant every game MMORPG coming out uses the same formula regardless of setting. All of the games you listed have very minimal depth that one usually associates with an RPG. When every "quest" is the same mundane go kill x amount of creatures it becomes a grindfest and not an RPG IMHO. Again IMHO that caters to people with attention issues or perhaps at the very minimum people who don't have time to devote to playing a game for hours on end (hence the power leveling for real money, ability to buy in game resources for real money, etc). As far as MMORPGs go I have played WoW, POTBS, SRO, 2Moons, Last Chaos, Rappelz, Eve Online, FlyFF, and many other I can't remember. Social they may be but how social can one get over killing mob after mob in an effort to get to the top only to wait for the next uncap and grind some more. All I am saying is MMO would be more appropriate then trying to associated any RPG aspect to them at all. NWN Toolset while daunting when first poking around does not require you to be "tech savvie" or a programmer in the least, that would be NWN 2. My 58 year old father navigates around in toolset just fine and can barely manage to check his email lol. As far as your scenario with flying in off a chandelier, yes with advanced scripting even that can be pulled off to some degree. While you wouldn't come swinging in on a rope, a rope could be dropped in and the animation played to traverse down the rope into the room. Climbing can be done the same way and there are systems that are available to do that in existence already. Yes setting up a world in a computer game is far more involved then a table top world. It's like putting on a play with actors, props, stunts, etc to put the person playing the game where you want them to be and feel what you want them to feel. Anyways I did not intend to offend anyone, just mearly toss a view point out that most if not all games have the same basic concept and that we are lucky enough to have resources that allow us to bring our PnP adventures to the computer for many others to enjoy. Sorry if I offended anyone. |
| Storm_Silverhand12-29-07, 05:01 PM | Heya, Somehow I have a hard time seeing you swinging from a chandelier to rescue a cute guy Zandi... :P That definitely wouldn't be me, you're quite right. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-30-07, 06:36 PM | I've heard many times that you need to know scripting in order to create a NWN game (NWN1 or NWN2) that's even passable. I believe it. That being said, the consensus does seem to be that NWN1's toolset is much, MUCH easier to use than NWN2's. And of course, so many great modules have been made by this point that no one should feel that they need to make their own (and of course, then you'd know all the plot twists in advance, wouldn't you?).:) |
| Stigger12-30-07, 06:43 PM | Lilac's script generator mostly works for NWN2's toolset, so that makes things a bit easier at least... but yeah, if you want to pull off something that you can't do with narrative, it's going to be extremely difficult without some scripting knowledge. Unfortunately, scripting for is like trying to grab smoke with my hands... |
| Fire_Wraith01-01-08, 04:37 AM | MMOs are what you make of them. With the right crowd, or perhaps more specifically excluding those who aren't of such a mindset, you can have a great roleplaying server in the context of WoW, or elsewhere. I do a fair bit of roleplaying in WoW, even if it is not nearly as immersive or in-depth as what I do on the NWN PW I play/run. None of that means it isn't fun for other reasons, though. NWN does require a lot of special knowledge, if you want wring every single last ounce of possibility out of it. Even without any knowledge of 3D modelling, though, I can still use the wealth of models and haks created by others and posted to the web. The same goes for scripts. Of course, I do know quite a bit about scripts, but that's beside the point. I also find that having a DM, and a willingness to use one's imagination, helps out quite a bit in the hypothetical tree-climbing or chandelier swinging (regardless of whom is to be saved) situations. In terms of NWN vs NWN2, yes, NWN's toolset is far easier to use, and easier to learn. This is primarily because NWN2 has so many more options, and is so much more powerful, that it became commensurately more complex and difficult to learn. While I've only messed around with it casually, those builders from my PW who have tried it have said that it is more difficult, but that truly amazing areas can be built using it, far moreso than was possible even with highly modified NWN1. |
| Storm_Silverhand01-01-08, 05:38 PM | Heya, MMOs are what you make of them. With the right crowd, or perhaps more specifically excluding those who aren't of such a mindset, you can have a great roleplaying server in the context of WoW, or elsewhere. I do a fair bit of roleplaying in WoW, even if it is not nearly as immersive or in-depth as what I do on the NWN PW I play/run. None of that means it isn't fun for other reasons, though. I was in an RPing guild on Scarlet Crusade for a while. We did some RPing together, it was a lot of fun for a time until drama tore the guild apart (there was a power play and other stuff was going on (some was partially my fault - but I was RPing a spurned lover, so what did they honestly expect when they were rubbing their new relationship in my character's face?), and it split the guild). So I left, and wasn't able to find a new RPing guild I was happy with joining... so no RP for me. Then, of course, my parents began to play on a non-RP server, and I moved over there... *sigh* I did try to convince them to play on SC... I also find that having a DM, and a willingness to use one's imagination, helps out quite a bit in the hypothetical tree-climbing or chandelier swinging (regardless of whom is to be saved) situations. But if you don't have a DM, you can't resolve those kinds of actions. You can't play a pencil and paper game without a DM. ;) |
| Stigger01-01-08, 07:35 PM | Technically you could... not sure why you would, but it is technically possible to play P&P without a DM. Of course you'd have to be a freak like LK or something, but still... :D ;) :P |
| XHereticX01-01-08, 07:41 PM | Heya, :P Meh. I'm not that interested in playing evil. I find it quite draining, even though I'm told I do a pretty good job. The only time I really want to play evil is if I'm DMing, and even then I'm secretly rooting for the PCs. When playing NWN and NWN2, I keep finding my character's alignments slowly being tugged towards Lawful and Good... Most of the time it is because the authors of the game modules (OC or otherwise) don't seem to have a really good grasp of the alignment system, particularly the Law/Chaos axis... Somehow Chaotic is equated with stealing, cheating, lying, and otherwise breaking the law. Seriously, I always find my characters being dragged the other direction. I have a munchkind minset, I do whatever I can to uber up my character, which means I am going to be breaking a lot of rules. |
| Storm_Silverhand01-02-08, 03:43 AM | Heya, Seriously, I always find my characters being dragged the other direction. If they do it right, you should get just as much a reward from being LG as you do from being CE. I have a munchkind minset, I do whatever I can to uber up my character, which means I am going to be breaking a lot of rules. Mmm... Munchkin... ~ DebugMode 1 dm_givexp 10000000 SetSTR 255 etc... :P Well, I cheat sometimes (nowhere near as badly as above! ;))... But I play games like NWN2 for the story, not for the challenge. |
| Stigger01-02-08, 03:56 AM | Stats won't go above 50 in NWN2 as far as I know... not that I would ever try anything so suspect at home... :D |
| Storm_Silverhand01-02-08, 06:03 PM | Heya, Stats won't go above 50 in NWN2 as far as I know... not that I would ever try anything so suspect at home... :D Hmm... well I've never tried to set a stat to 255. :) |
| Stigger01-02-08, 06:41 PM | I tried to set it to 210 to see if I could get a +100 ability mod once... :D |
| XHereticX01-02-08, 06:45 PM | Heya, If they do it right, you should get just as much a reward from being LG as you do from being CE. Mmm... Munchkin... ~ DebugMode 1 dm_givexp 10000000 SetSTR 255 etc... :P Well, I cheat sometimes (nowhere near as badly as above! ;))... But I play games like NWN2 for the story, not for the challenge. same here actually, I just unconsciously try to power-up my character along the way. :) Remains of my old Diablo 2 days. |