Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 10-05-07, 02:01 PM	This is a thread for sharing your initial reactions to the Great Time Skip and trying to adjust your minds around what it causes in you, feelings wise. Share your genuine feelings both good and bad here. No judgments on whether it's a good or bad idea, just what kind of weird things this makes you feel. Here's some of my reactions. * Holy :censored: Allusair is dead. My player character's girlfriend in 3 campaigns is gone. * Holy :censored: my friend's Ranger, Musim, is dead. * My Chosen of Shar is still alive. That's a big character changing thought. * The Elven Wizardess is also probably still alive. * Our Half Elf is probably now extraordinarily old if he's still alive. * Does Mystra's death impact our Priest of Mystra? How did he react or did another pop up?
Markustay 10-05-07, 02:18 PM	So, what is this... 4e thread #4012? :rolleyes:
Crazygx34 10-05-07, 04:34 PM	So, what is this... 4e thread #4012? :rolleyes: Wow do you count them all I was not tinking it have much.:eek: For me I think it a great thing to skip some time it bad for Alusair but change it a good thing sometimes..
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-05-07, 05:49 PM	To be fair we don't know how big the "time skip" is going to be. As far as "coping" goes, I'll cope by not moving my Realms ahead or introducing the Spellplague. In my Realms, it'll never happen.
Charles Phipps 10-05-07, 07:56 PM	I wonder if Elminster is still kicking about. I hope so. I just hope he got attacked by some Negative Material creatures and lost half his levels. ....You know, a mid-level 20th ;-)
msatran 10-05-07, 08:06 PM	I don't know how I'm going to cope yet. I haven't read any of the material. I know that from what they've been saying, I'd rather have an intrusive catheter inserted into my **** and take pictures of my genitals with a radioactive laser than put up with this. Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
GothicDan 10-05-07, 08:12 PM	Hot.
johnkretzer 10-05-07, 08:23 PM	To be fair we don't know how big the "time skip" is going to be. As far as "coping" goes, I'll cope by not moving my Realms ahead or introducing the Spellplague. In my Realms, it'll never happen. I agree...this is how I am coping with it. By just ignoring it.
msatran 10-05-07, 08:28 PM	Yeah. I'm pretty sure my love affair with the Realms is pretty much over. And Dan, a Catheter is a medical instrument. PUtting a camera on the other end of it isn't erotic, it's just painful.
GothicDan 10-05-07, 08:31 PM	... Hot. I'm a kinky kinda' guy.
Charles Phipps 10-05-07, 08:41 PM	After my initial reaction, I'm not necessarilly so troubled by the matter. Let's face it, this provides a unique opportunity for players and Gamemasters to be able to say "My current campaign is not going to be disrupted by metaplot" No longer will yearly events screw you over. All this takes place in the future.
GothicDan 10-05-07, 08:43 PM	That's true. Either way, it means there's no reason to buy WotC products...
johnkretzer 10-05-07, 08:51 PM	After my initial reaction, I'm not necessarilly so troubled by the matter. Let's face it, this provides a unique opportunity for players and Gamemasters to be able to say "My current campaign is not going to be disrupted by metaplot" No longer will yearly events screw you over. All this takes place in the future. Oh I agree I think this is the best thing for my game...looking on the bright side of things... 1)I don't have to deal with them taking artistic license with the rules anymore. 2) I now have the complete rules to run D&D. Sure they are are some hipcups along the way but now I can just write my house rules as a finale document. 3) And any new players join my game will be lost to WotC as a customer because they won't have to deal with these constant upheavals. And the PCs actualy have a greater effect in my game then they would be if anyone does try to follow the 'canon' of the Realms. Because three years down the line a god will make a action and destroy everything that the PCs have done...yup I guess that 4th edition is there to make the players the stars is just a myth. I agrue with the changes only because thay are soo badly done, won't actualy accomplish what they are trying to doing, and propably will end up destroying the Realms in popularity.
Charles Phipps 10-05-07, 09:35 PM	What exactly is so badly done? Let's face it, how are these going to impact your characters when it's a century in the future?
johnkretzer 10-05-07, 09:48 PM	What exactly is so badly done? Let's face it, how are these going to impact your characters when it's a century in the future? You don't know that it will be a 100 year in the future. And if it is I will continue to ignore because the game I run is a ongoing game where the PCs from the old campaign just don't disappear and start a new( wow I just realize something imagine the bad DMs who can't deal with powerful NPCs also dealing with powerful PCs...). My game won't ever jump a 100 years into the future. Even it it does some of them will still be around in a 100 years time. As to how is it badly done I have stated it many times on these boards in other threads.
Dark Wizard 10-05-07, 09:49 PM	Well that's the thing, my character will be dead. That's not so bad if the Spellplague landed in a hundred years, but it does land only 10 years (now 9 actually and in another game only 6) away from my current Realms game. Now I have to ignore everything that comes from the last page of the GHotR onwards. The new Realms have severely diminished value for me. I would rather have a published Realms I can more readily support. While some posters said I lack creativity because I have to be spoon-fed by WotC that is hardly the case, I can continue to run my game without their official support. I simply would just like their support. Who knows maybe by the time 4E FR hits it might be vastly different than what the doom and gloom last entries in GHotR.
Charles Phipps 10-05-07, 10:12 PM	I understand the support issue. For me, this is sort of like the Fifth Age of Dragonlance. All the Heroes of the Lance are dead from that time of Palin's Rise to power. That doesn't mean they murdered your characters.
Dark Wizard 10-05-07, 10:13 PM	I understand the support issue. For me, this is sort of like the Fifth Age of Dragonlance. All the Heroes of the Lance are dead from that time of Palin's Rise to power. That doesn't mean they murdered your characters. No, they just divorced my game. I don't think dead personal characters are a great major concern in all of this. How am I coping with the Great Skip? I get more time to work on my homebrews.
Charles Phipps 10-05-07, 10:29 PM	No, they just divorced my game. I don't think dead personal characters are a great major concern in all of this. How am I coping with the Great Skip? I get more time to work on my homebrews. Okay. I just don't see how its a problem. Though I confess, finding out you're operating in "The Past" might annoy some folk.
MerrikCale 10-05-07, 10:41 PM	I agree...this is how I am coping with it. By just ignoring it. Thats a difficult proposition assuming its a 100 or so year jump. I like reading the novels, sourcebooks etc. I like having my campaign where all the new materials (hence action) is. So this will suck canal water. And for what?
johnkretzer 10-05-07, 10:58 PM	Thats a difficult proposition assuming its a 100 or so year jump. I like reading the novels, sourcebooks etc. I like having my campaign where all the new materials (hence action) is. So this will suck canal water. And for what? I liked to even if I disagrred with some of the stuff. And this will suck for me as I liked the support, but they have decided I and people like me don't make then enough money and while I have a slight hope that they might listen to us(or their bosses might stop to and think wait my design team is too radical to we need to compromise here) I don't think that will happen till 5th ed. So for now I will continue my game and hopefuly the DM I play with will continue his game ignoring(as in not buying the books) till we grow old and gray.
18DELTA 10-06-07, 02:32 AM	I don't know how I'm going to cope yet. I haven't read any of the material. I know that from what they've been saying, I'd rather have an intrusive catheter inserted into my **** and take pictures of my genitals with a radioactive laser than put up with this. Richard Baker Must Be Stopped! :rofl: :bow: :w00t: :clap: :dancin: :cheer: :ayyyy!: :bounce: :heehee For the love of God man dont do it!:embarrass :P ;)
18DELTA 10-06-07, 02:36 AM	... Hot. I'm a kinky kinda' guy. :rofl: :bow: :heehee Stop it I am laughing so hard my stomach is starting to hurt.:D
Charles Phipps 10-06-07, 04:55 AM	Well, we've discussed the situation at great length and my adventuring troupe of players has decided that we're going to role with the 100 year Great Skip. This will kill some old favorites amongst the player characters while retiring others and leave a rare few amongst them alive. It's premature to start deciding when and where my player characters will be located with only the barest of outlines as to what my Realms have been up to all this time but it's important to strike while the iron is hot. I was curious if I could get some feedback from the folks here to help. * The middle aged Half-Elf Bard we've determined was allowed to journey to Evermeet and enter the forrests to die. I think this is a pretty mythic honor for a person whom would never normally be allowed amongst them. But our player characters participated in the TOT and helped kill The Dark Triad (for a time), so that's not too much of a problem, I think. * Our female human fighter we've determined just retired and naturally died of old age. The player has expressed interest in playing her great grand-daughter, which I think is appropriate for the storyline. * We've got another half-elf amongst the party but he was only in his forties, so I was debating whether or not he'd be alive or not. It occurred to me that we might do well to have him be sort of a crotchety old geezer surrounded by an extended family of grandkids. Which brings us to the player characters that are probably still alive a century later as well as active. * The Elven Wizard I'm thinking might just have gone off to spend the past century just doing the "elf" thing and reading, researching, etc rather than anything important. That seems a little boring but she was a very bookish type. * One of our player characters was the Chosen of Hoar (I renamed him Haar for the sake of my sanity during games). His abilities were pretty mild compared to the Chosen of Mystra but one was that he explicitly gained an extra year on his lifespan for every person he killed. That seems like functional immortality given the man was a wandering "Kane" from Kung Fu style figure, always seeking to right wrongs and kill bad men near and far. 10 questions that pop up 1. How do I describe the events of the past century, that seem pretty damn cataclysmic, to the characters who lived through it? 2. Should Hoar/Haar still be alive or should I have my Monk player character role with the idea his god is dead? 3. Do people even remember our player characters accomplishments a century later? Especially, since Bane is back. 4. Should I make Non-Evil Humanoids as a staple of the setting something magical or just a recognition of what was always true? 5. One of our player characters was Alusair's official consort (as opposed to the legion of unofficial). Should she have ever had children and if so, do they have a role in Cormyr? 6. Should I take this opportunity to lower the setting's overall power level? Most of the truly high level wizards now dead and maybe some folk like Elminster and company still powerful but weaker? (20th level or so?) 7. How bad should I portray the Realms? Drizzt's description was pretty bleak. 8. Irregardless of how canon portrays it, Fzoul was always a big enemy of the player characters. I was thinking it might be cool to give the man his own kingdom. Would that be too out there? What about Mashoon? 9. I replaced Velsharoon with Mykrul (who became Intermediate God of Necromancy, Evil Magic, and Undead when he destroyed Orcus). Where's he now, you think? 10. Any suggestions of "Realms fixes" you'd throw in?
poilbrun 10-06-07, 07:04 AM	Do we know for sure that the time skip is 100 years? From reading the grand history of the realms, nothing happens after 1385, so maybe it will only be a 10-year time skip. As far as I know, the only thing that supports the 100 year time jump is the prologue to the newest Salvatore book, but by reading the back page description, it seems quite clear that the rest of the book will take place in the present or the very near future, not 100 years forward. I might have missed some information, so if I have, can anyone enlighten me?
Fire_Wraith 10-06-07, 07:15 AM	I posed the question to Rich Baker in the 'Ask the Designers' thread, and he replied that he's not allowed to give an answer (yet) as to when the 4th edition FRCS setting will begin. So, we don't know just how big of a time skip there will be. Thus far, people's guesses have ranged mostly from 10 years (the date given in GHotR, 1385 DR) to 100 years (being what gets referenced in the future-history excerpt from the Orc King). However, this is all pure conjecture at this point, and we won't know for certain until Rich or someone else from WotC tells us more.
Charles Phipps 10-06-07, 07:56 AM	I'm all for a century. That leaves a century for PCs to develop as they see fit.
Calmar 10-06-07, 07:56 AM	I have never used more than the sourcebooks, so I do not care too much about the official metaplots. I prefer to create my own villains and plots, I am no fan of realmshaking events and if my players want to be impressed by the deeds of some NPCs they can read the novels. The rest is just used to give life to the parts of Faerūn my game does not play in. Besides that... The illithids should use the hurlyburly of the Spellplague to get more power and to become more of a serious threat to the world above.
Suin Bahhar 10-06-07, 09:07 AM	A century skip will ruin my campaigns. Period. The first 3.5 party will be mostly dead. The human cleric of Helm will have no patron god, my character (a lucky swordsman of the streets of BG) will end up in the boring House of the Triad instead of the beautiful Brightwater, the halfling druid justicar is dead, the reincarnated halfling (used to be half-orc) should be old or dead. Only our elf sorceress and expartymember elf cleric would remain.
Charles Phipps 10-06-07, 09:17 AM	A century skip will ruin my campaigns. Period. The first 3.5 party will be mostly dead. The human cleric of Helm will have no patron god, my character (a lucky swordsman of the streets of BG) will end up in the boring House of the Triad instead of the beautiful Brightwater, the halfling druid justicar is dead, the reincarnated halfling (used to be half-orc) should be old or dead. Only our elf sorceress and expartymember elf cleric would remain. Dude, I don't think they expect you to stop adventuring for 100 years. "Okay guys, we're adjusting to fourth edition. Nothing happens for a century that you're involved in..."
Charles Phipps 10-06-07, 09:18 AM	Okay, this is the introduction I've got written up for my PCs. How does it look? State of the Realms The Spell Plague drove most of the wizards insane that it didn't kill as they ravaged across the countryside, destroying everything in their path, and slaying with conquering hordes all that they could. Those wizards who survived unscathed paid a much worse toll for their sanity as they were forced to cut themselves from their magic as The Weave was undone. Millions of years of magical learning that dated back to the ancient Serpent Folk Empire was suddenly useless. The Kingdom of Thay fell in an orgy of violence with the slaves revolting with blades and steel. The Kingdom of Haruula burned with its ancient and vast libraries looted less than the rich estates. Worse, the people could not turn to the gods for all but the strongest gods were destroyed in the conflaguration. The flags of Bane, Shar, Talos, and Cyric reigned supreme amongst evil deities with those spirits beneath them being forced to bend their knee or die. The icy bite of mortality touched the souls of The Seven Sisters and the Old Sage. Larael, Selune, and Khelban were lost forever. In the North, the standard of Zhentil Keep became no more a mockery but a powerful nation with dominion over the Moonsea and Northern Dales. With so many clerics rendered powerless and the Weave gone, disease and starvation ravaged the land. Flood, famine, and pestilance were things that tore at the populous. The humanoids of many tribes ate well on the flesh of man as the age of the monsters began. Their numbers hold dominion over the wild untamed roads that separate the few lands left tamed. Gone was the welcome that magicians received and clerics of new gods became distrusted. Witch burnings, a sight never seen before on Toril, came to pass. Better to slay those who tried to practice the Art than unleash the plague again. The Harpers, always distrusted, were almost universally outlawed with membership in even goodly kingdoms meaning death. In the darkened wastes, Shar taught her own form of magic to the Netherese whom had survived the disaster with their minds twisted and debased but intact. Though their sorcery is a shadow of what it once was, they lord over the slaves and people from their diabolic ruins while mating with unspeakable serpentine things. The Old Magic was gone but that did not mean that it could not be rediscovered. Some say it was the Old Sage who returned with it, his power but a candle compared to what it once was before. Delivering it to Lhao was a book of spells that drew on the ambient magic that existed all around. It was a wild and untamed thing that was difficult to master while largely inaccurate. But from the ashes began once more the ways of the arcane to emerge. It is a troubled time with the Lady of Silverymoon living on the time she gains from Potions of Longevity while the Simbul broods on a throne with power to barely maintain her land let alone slay armies. The Old Sage still wanders the land, seeking yet further new types of magic. Wizards discovering their own way and he spreading the news from there. Darkness has come to the Realms and all good folk need a blade, a prayer, and a bit of the new magic. There are almost no heroes in this land and it is up to you to make up the difference.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-06-07, 11:21 PM	While some posters said I lack creativity because I have to be spoon-fed by WotC that is hardly the case, I can continue to run my game without their official support. I simply would just like their support. I agree, it's not that I feel beholden to canon (I wasn't before the 4E news hit), it's just that I did enjoy WotC's Realms products. I'd love to keep buying them, but I won't if the company won't make products that I like. And I find certain attitudes that some WotC employees have towards the Realms to be saddening, whether I'm going to buy 4E products or not.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-06-07, 11:23 PM	Well, we've discussed the situation at great length and my adventuring troupe of players has decided that we're going to role with the 100 year Great Skip. As I said before: we don't NOT know how far in the future the new FR campaign setting will take place in. Understand?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-06-07, 11:27 PM	The icy bite of mortality touched the souls of The Seven Sisters and the Old Sage. Larael, Selune, and Khelban were lost forever. Actually, Khelben is pretty well protected from this, because according to the Blackstaff novel: He's already dead. Sylune is protected as well, because according to the Shadowdale module: She's dead too--permanently. You have some catching up to do, Charles.
Charles Phipps 10-06-07, 11:37 PM	As I said before: we don't NOT know how far in the future the new FR campaign setting will take place in. Understand? It's in the guide. What happens in 4th edition is immaterial. *MY* next campaign will take place the year of what the last year of the Timeline happens to be and the year of the end/beginning of Orc King. I don't think there's anything wrong with assuming either. The worst thing is my game will be divorced from the current setting. The Guide is all I need then. :-D Actually, Khelben is pretty well protected from this, because according to the Blackstaff novel: He's already dead. Sylune is protected as well, because according to the Shadowdale module: She's dead too--permanently. You have some catching up to do, Charles. :confused: Isn't it kinda obvious that Khelban and all the other deaths world going to Hell is part of the the build up to the Great Skip? My campaign ended with the onset of the present realms more or less so those events are included as part of the "End of everything." I consider all the "removal of safeties" part of the Great Skip.
MerrikCale 10-07-07, 12:17 AM	It's in the guide. what guide?
Charles Phipps 10-07-07, 12:52 AM	http://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_fracc_9780786947317_lgpic.jpg :-)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-07-07, 01:19 AM	It's in the guide. What happens in 4th edition is immaterial. *MY* next campaign will take place the year of what the last year of the Timeline happens to be and the year of the end/beginning of Orc King. I don't think there's anything wrong with assuming either. The worst thing is my game will be divorced from the current setting. The Guide is all I need then. :-D Obviously you can do what you want with your campaign.:) But it's not known for a fact that the campaign will skip 100 years (though I personally have the feeling it will), and no, nothing in the GHotR states that. :confused: Isn't it kinda obvious that Khelban and all the other deaths world going to Hell is part of the the build up to the Great Skip? My campaign ended with the onset of the present realms more or less so those events are included as part of the "End of everything." I consider all the "removal of safeties" part of the Great Skip. Well...the way you wrote it implied that those two people I mentioned were alive at the time of the Spellplague.
Charles Phipps 10-07-07, 02:24 AM	My apologies then. But yeah, I feel that when Canon Atomics like this drop. It's best to stop worrying and love the bomb. Thus I embrace the century of skippery.
Fire_Wraith 10-07-07, 03:53 AM	I agree, it's not that I feel beholden to canon (I wasn't before the 4E news hit), it's just that I did enjoy WotC's Realms products. I'd love to keep buying them, but I won't if the company won't make products that I like. I think this sums up a lot of what I feel, as well, and serves as the primary answer to those who say "well, if you don't like it, don't use it in your own campaign." I play in the Realms because I liked the work that WoTC did, and enjoyed having a common frame of reference that others could easily dive into when first joining a new game. This has been particularly useful when running online games, such as with Neverwinter Nights. If, however, I'm going to be forced to make so many changes that what I end up with is totally divorced from the published Realms, I may as well just make my own gameworld, so that I don't have to worry about people coming in with lots of preconceived notions that don't hold true for my version. And I find certain attitudes that some WotC employees have towards the Realms to be saddening, whether I'm going to buy 4E products or not. Everyone has their own opinions on the Realms - my view of them is not yours, nor is either of our views' that of Rich's, or of Ed's. We may share so many points that we don't notice the differences, but they exist - and there's nothing wrong with it. Rich and the others (I cite him as he's been the public face of the design team, of late) have put a lot of effort into keeping the setting vibrant and lively. I've enjoyed a lot of the material they've put out, both game sourcebooks and novels. If they have made any errors, perhaps, it has been doing their job too well, or too enthusiastically, and I cannot fault them too much for that. Now, perhaps at higher levels, there are those that view these things less as we do, in terms of our beloved hobby, and more in terms of a pure business enterprise. However, this is the nature of the beast. The company does have to make money, in order to keep the product line going. Maybe they're going about it in a way that will ultimately show itself to be shortsighted, but only time will prove that. In the meantime, all we can do is offer our advice, our comments, suggestions, and make polite requests. I do think that some of the responses, such as Rich's recent blog post, may have come in part from some of the unnecessarily heated comments made on these forums (and elsewhere), some directed at him specifically. I think most of us have been fairly calm and level-headed in trying to explain why we have problems with what we have heard about the coming changes, and what we think could be done to fix them. Unfortunately, the calm and rational people are not often the loudest. While I understand the emotions that drive such comments (and I do feel them to a degree as well), they aren't constructive, and instead can work to hinder any sort of progress. Rich (and the rest of the designers) are not ultimately our enemies - quite the opposite.
Fingoldfin 10-08-07, 01:22 AM	It is very funny to me that we have to find a way to cope w/ WotC changing every thing about the Realms. It is a setting for an RPG it does not have to be static, but it should be at least as stable as Britney Spears. :rolleyes: Trying to DM a long term campaign in the Realms is like riding a bike while a monkey sits on your handle bars and throws **** in your face. I love the novels, but they make a mess. They should not be canon. All the PR problems that the Realms have are driven by the novels. To fix that they give us the Spellplague and the Great Skip. I will cope with it by ignoring it. My hope is that they will put out some new products for the 1375 time line. I wouldn't hold me breath waiting. Now that I am running a homebrew Realms I don't need to ever buy any Realms or 4e books. It gives me more money for the old LORE filled box sets.:dancin: :P
Charles Phipps 10-08-07, 02:23 AM	Hey, question, since no one answered my earlier one. Do you think this is an interesting way to handle the Spell Plague: Basically, not only does it cause Saving Throw vs. Insanity but those that suceed but choose to voluntarilly sever themselves from their magic. Thus, everyone loses their magical abilities and for a brief time it's a sane Sorcerer/Wizard-less society. Like Dragonlance's switchover to the Saga system. Thus the player characters have a bit of a chance climbing up the ladder herowise.
johnkretzer 10-08-07, 02:38 AM	Hey, question, since no one answered my earlier one. Do you think this is an interesting way to handle the Spell Plague: Basically, not only does it cause Saving Throw vs. Insanity but those that suceed but choose to voluntarilly sever themselves from their magic. Thus, everyone loses their magical abilities and for a brief time it's a sane Sorcerer/Wizard-less society. Like Dragonlance's switchover to the Saga system. Thus the player characters have a bit of a chance climbing up the ladder herowise. Um...mmm...since I not haveing the Spell Plague in my game I haven't much thought about it... But what about casters who can't cut themselves from the Weave? Like Sorcerers and Warlocks(well if spell-like abilties are linked to the Weave), Also if you are setting your game after the Spell Plague what is the point of determining it's effect? Also in the new PC-centric, the PCs always win are the coolest thing since slice bread ego trip...just rule that the PC aren't effect or anybody they need in their background. I think this will be the official answear since now D&D is about the PCs being the center of the universe instead just living in it....(sorry for the rant) But sure it looks ok.
johnkretzer 10-08-07, 03:00 AM	I was curious if I could get some feedback from the folks here to help. Ok I'll try. * The middle aged Half-Elf Bard we've determined was allowed to journey to Evermeet and enter the forrests to die. I think this is a pretty mythic honor for a person whom would never normally be allowed amongst them. But our player characters participated in the TOT and helped kill The Dark Triad (for a time), so that's not too much of a problem, I think. Unfortunaly I think this will be a meanless honor with the Weave's destruction as revealed in GHotR Evermeet was definitly strongly link to it. * Our female human fighter we've determined just retired and naturally died of old age. The player has expressed interest in playing her great grand-daughter, which I think is appropriate for the storyline. Sounds cool. * We've got another half-elf amongst the party but he was only in his forties, so I was debating whether or not he'd be alive or not. It occurred to me that we might do well to have him be sort of a crotchety old geezer surrounded by an extended family of grandkids. Sounds cool Which brings us to the player characters that are probably still alive a century later as well as active. * The Elven Wizard I'm thinking might just have gone off to spend the past century just doing the "elf" thing and reading, researching, etc rather than anything important. That seems a little boring but she was a very bookish type. Anyway it could be cool that she was of the founders for the new magical traditions. Which would require alot of book work. * One of our player characters was the Chosen of Hoar (I renamed him Haar for the sake of my sanity during games). His abilities were pretty mild compared to the Chosen of Mystra but one was that he explicitly gained an extra year on his lifespan for every person he killed. That seems like functional immortality given the man was a wandering "Kane" from Kung Fu style figure, always seeking to right wrongs and kill bad men near and far. I think this player will feel the most betrayed of your player as I doubt Hoar( or Haar) will be around...so I don't think it matters much. Though if he is I would be thinking he would looking for a way to kill Cyric. 10 questions that pop up 1. How do I describe the events of the past century, that seem pretty damn cataclysmic, to the characters who lived through it? Um...need more info. 2. Should Hoar/Haar still be alive or should I have my Monk player character role with the idea his god is dead? My opinion is Hoar( or Haar) should be very much alive and alot more powerful as the call of vengence will be great, but I think either he will die because they have already strongly hinted that they want Cyric alive and I can't fathom a reason why Hoar( or Haar) would not go kill Cyric. 3. Do people even remember our player characters accomplishments a century later? Especially, since Bane is back. Propably. Though it might be more regional base then world fame. As world fame really didn't exist before I doubt this upheaval would suddenly make it exist. 4. Should I make Non-Evil Humanoids as a staple of the setting something magical or just a recognition of what was always true? I don't get the question? 5. One of our player characters was Alusair's official consort (as opposed to the legion of unofficial). Should she have ever had children and if so, do they have a role in Cormyr? If you want sure...but be prepared to be contradicted by official Realms lore. 6. Should I take this opportunity to lower the setting's overall power level? Most of the truly high level wizards now dead and maybe some folk like Elminster and company still powerful but weaker? (20th level or so?) Considering they are raising the games power level I think you should wait till you get more comfortable with the new rules. Also they are lowering the power-level of good NPCs I expect evil will be just as powerful now then before. 7. How bad should I portray the Realms? Drizzt's description was pretty bleak. That is up to you...just be prepared for when WotC contradict you. 8. Irregardless of how canon portrays it, Fzoul was always a big enemy of the player characters. I was thinking it might be cool to give the man his own kingdom. Would that be too out there? What about Mashoon? It is a 100 years with almost no magic I doubt either will alive in 100 years. 9. I replaced Velsharoon with Mykrul (who became Intermediate God of Necromancy, Evil Magic, and Undead when he destroyed Orcus). Where's he now, you think? Same place as Velsharoon would be I imagine. 10. Any suggestions of "Realms fixes" you'd throw in? My fixes are heading completely from the weay you are going..if you have any specifics I might go into detail. Goog luck with this and happy gaming.
Charles Phipps 10-08-07, 03:03 AM	Actually, JohnKretzer, I think the Spell Plague is relatively recent in the Timeline. It's in 1385.
johnkretzer 10-08-07, 03:07 AM	Actually, JohnKretzer, I think the Spell Plague is relatively recent in the Timeline. It's in 1385. What is with the bold? Yes you are correct, and from my understanding you are planning on setting your game about 100 years in the future...considering rather or not it actualy lasts that long is unknown. So it's effect on future characts is irrevelant... Existing PCs I still stand by my first response.
Charles Phipps 10-08-07, 03:11 AM	What is with the bold? Yes you are correct, and from my understanding you are planning on setting your game about 100 years in the future...considering rather or not it actualy lasts that long is unknown. So it's effect on future characts is irrevelant... Existing PCs I still stand by my first response. Thank you for much for your comments, they're very helpful. I forgot to mention. But yes, I'll be starting the year of the Spell Plague. Which is a century from the "present" FR timeline.
Suin Bahhar 10-08-07, 08:24 AM	Nah that's only ten years (the Year of Blue Fire)
Charles Phipps 10-08-07, 08:51 AM	Oops, my bad. Well I guess my game just got very un-canon. :blush:
Suin Bahhar 10-08-07, 11:06 AM	It's all good, my friend. It all falls down how you (the DM) want it too.
MarkusTay63 10-08-07, 11:38 AM	Officially, the time between 1385 DR and the new FRCS (whatever it winds up being) will be a 'time of NO rules'. 3e officially ends in 1385, and 4e will begin much later, weather it be a decade or a century. In fact, without the need to write anything that conforms to game mechanics, it'll be a writer's paradise. How convenient, eh? ;) I'm totally screwed because my current game is set in 1390 DR. I've worked hard to keep all of the canon events in-line with my game, by keeping my players on the fringes of the 'busy' regions. Khelben was a bit of a problem, but since he wasn't the REAL Khelben Arunsun it turned out to be NO problem at all (IN fact, now we have BOTH a Khelben AND a Blackstaff ;) ). However, with the events of 1385 DR in the GHotR, WotC has thrown my campaign firmly into an 'alternate reality' setting. Since they so graciously did that, I no longer feel the need to keep my campaign in line with ANY future material. Liberation, at last. :dancin: If the new campaign setting (I REFUSE to call it FR) is truly excellent, I may use it down the road, but for now I will continue to allow my world to grow in creative ways I was unable to do while shackled to the 'canon monster'. I don't see why people need to cope with the Skip at all - it's YOUR game, do whatever the hell you want and don't let them bully you into anything. :P
Charles Phipps 10-08-07, 11:40 AM	Dude, what is so different that it's not FR?
Alediran 10-08-07, 12:46 PM	Dude, what is so different that it's not FR? No more Weave, no Mystra, no more X god (replace X with: Helm, Savras, some dwarven deities, etc), probably 2/3 thirds of the realms cities and regions will go kaboom, etc. No more Evermeet, no more Sun and Moon Elves. No more Archmage cold-war.
Charles Phipps 10-08-07, 02:57 PM	Where did you get the idea that Evermeet is gone? Only Luskan is going to be destroyed I thought.
Alediran 10-08-07, 03:28 PM	Evermeet is an island with powerful links to the Weave and to the planes, two things that are going to the 4ed FR grinder. If the developers did the logical thing, they'll blow up Evermeet. After all, they said that the map will also change.
Suin Bahhar 10-08-07, 03:57 PM	That's not logical, terraforming uses a lot of magic but once you create an island from minerals those minerals won't collapse if the magic is gone. The island Evermeet will only get destroyed by a volcanic eruption or some other massive disaster.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-08-07, 03:59 PM	Where did you get the idea that Evermeet is gone? Only Luskan is going to be destroyed I thought. We know Luskan gets hit...but that doesn't mean that's the ONLY place that gets hit. We don't know everything yet, and I'll bet there are going to be a lot of regions that get played around with.
johnkretzer 10-08-07, 05:16 PM	That's not logical, terraforming uses a lot of magic but once you create an island from minerals those minerals won't collapse if the magic is gone. The island Evermeet will only get destroyed by a volcanic eruption or some other massive disaster. While the island might still exist...it won't be the safe haven it once was...I guess there was just too many PoL for their PoL 'concept' of a RPG setting.
Suin Bahhar 10-08-07, 05:36 PM	I thought Evermeets defences were mostly powered by the Seldarine, not only the Weave.
johnkretzer 10-08-07, 05:55 PM	I thought Evermeets defences were mostly powered by the Seldarine, not only the Weave. Sorry but the revisionist history has striked again...seeing how I think the Realms elves are going to be mutated into the new 4th Editon elf...I think this will be there key on inflicting the changes.
Yaeri 10-08-07, 06:24 PM	SNIP If the new campaign setting (I REFUSE to call it FR) is truly excellent, SNIP I'm itching to start a thread asking for people's opinions on what this campaign setting should be called. I'm really curious. :D That probably means it's getting late and I should go to bed. What was this thread about? Oh yeah, the skip. As has been said, we don't know how big it's going to be. Coping with it is probably not going to be a problem for me as most likely I won't be buying anything 4th edition (not out of protest or hate or anything the like though). But that aside, I prefer a shorter (like 10 years) time jump as opposed to the rumoured 100 years. 100 years in the realms would really change a lot. In 100 years I'd expect only the geography to be the same. ...and Elminster. Hmm, I'm suddenly curious if some characters will get new make-overs, like in previous editions. For example, Gandalf the orange Elminster to the more ladies-man-Sean-Connery-esque Elminster. Good night.
Dark Wizard 10-08-07, 06:31 PM	Hmm, I'm suddenly curious if some characters will get new make-overs, like in previous editions. For example, Gandalf the orange Elminster to the more ladies-man-Sean-Connery-esque Elminster. Good night. I like Elminster's look on the cover of Temptation of Elminster, sort of the hawk-nosed, nerdy swashbuckler-scholar look with an expression like he just smelled something funny and is trying to figure out what it is. Older now of course, I suppose more like Highlander Spaniard Connery than The Rock/Entrapment Connery. At least that is how he would look in my games if my players after met him, but they never have and probably never will.
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 04:51 PM	That's not logical, terraforming uses a lot of magic but once you create an island from minerals those minerals won't collapse if the magic is gone. The island Evermeet will only get destroyed by a volcanic eruption or some other massive disaster.Read The Sundering vingette in the GHotR VERY carefully. Evermeet is NOT part of Toril - it is a piece of Arvandor being held in place by a concentration of the Weave. When the Weave goes bye-bye, so will Evermeet. Most likely, everything will 'snap-back' into place the way it should have been before the Elves meddled. THAT single event would explain EVERY SINGLE CHANGE they plan in 4e, including why Elves have been known by a different name for some 9000 years...
Suin Bahhar 10-10-07, 10:54 AM	I get my interpretation from E:IoE where the discription of creation of Evermeet feels like an terraforming spell. This would mean the actual island is physical and real. The weave and the blessing of the seldarine gives the area the planar traits of arvandor. So in a sense after the spellplague the island is Evermeet no more, but it would not collapse without real physical shakeups and a mundane island without special protections od blessings would remain. Unless the warping and shaping of Torils mutable land also severly effect Evermeet I see no reason for it popping out of existance.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 10:56 AM	Yes, but newer lore overwrites older, and the GHotR was written with 4e in mind... Obviously. :(
Charles Phipps 10-10-07, 12:20 PM	Unless Evermeet disappearing was mentioned, it's unlikely to have happened.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 12:30 PM	Once again, the designers have said that events in the GHotR was inclusive, not exclusive. What is contained therein is nothing more then a 'sneak peak' of things to come. Also, the last entry begins the Spellplague. NONE of the results of the Spellplague are listed, only that "the very substance of the world becomes mutable... Many Planes are shifted or destroyed... maintain their realms against the resultant chaos... the end of the old world, and the terrible beginning of the new". Note the word I highlighted: That means 'maps subject to change in 4e'. :eek: There are almost NO definates there, just a very vague description of a cataclysm so catastrophic that the very planes themselves are realigned. And THAT was just the beginning... WotC wonders why we are 'freakin' out'. :nonono:
Keahi19 10-10-07, 06:28 PM	I don't know and therefore can't say. My charecter would be dead, but I am writing from the time I picked and so I think it's all good. Either way if we play with it or not, ehhh. Still want Lanten to invade the rest of Toril. Also want a Lanten sourcebook.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 08:58 PM	Once again, the designers have said that events in the GHotR was inclusive, not exclusive. What is contained therein is nothing more then a 'sneak peak' of things to come. Also, the last entry begins the Spellplague. NONE of the results of the Spellplague are listed, only that "the very substance of the world becomes mutable... Many Planes are shifted or destroyed... maintain their realms against the resultant chaos... the end of the old world, and the terrible beginning of the new". Note the word I highlighted: That means 'maps subject to change in 4e'. :eek: There are almost NO definates there, just a very vague description of a cataclysm so catastrophic that the very planes themselves are realigned. And THAT was just the beginning... WotC wonders why we are 'freakin' out'. :nonono: That's correct. Just because the GHotR doesn't mention an event doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Charles Phipps 10-11-07, 10:43 PM	Uh huh. So instead, this huge history just excludes all the important events. Seriously. That's just making stuff up. Assume every major change was spoken of and you're probably right.
johnkretzer 10-12-07, 03:55 PM	Uh huh. So instead, this huge history just excludes all the important events. Seriously. That's just making stuff up. Assume every major change was spoken of and you're probably right. Actualy in parts it did but that is besides the point. We know they are going to kill alot of gods because they said so in the GHotR. They just didn't give us a list yet.
MarkusTay63 10-12-07, 04:23 PM	No. Most of that occurred BEFORE the Spellplague. Read the entries more carefully - what I said is we do NOT know what happens BECAUSE of the Spellplague - only a very vague description of 'badness'. Those gods we know about all died prior to the Spellplague, except for Mystra and Sevras, who deaths caused the spellplague. Except for Cyric being locked up, we have NO definates AFTER it is in effect. Seriously. That's just making stuff up. Assume every major change was spoken of and you're probably right.Actually, I've already been told I'm right, but whatever. You keep believing that everything is in that little book... even though the designers themselves have said that there is still much information left out, because they didn't want to ruin the endings of any novels or series. Shar has been behind everything... including the ToT... from the beginning, and all of that will be revealed in the coming year. Make you a deal - whichever of us is right will make a formal apology to the other. ;)
KismetRose 10-12-07, 04:58 PM	I just got to thinking about this in more personal terms. About four years ago, when I first started my FR campaign, I made a few decisions that helped me to distance my game from the canon. The first thing I did was create my own city. By placing it in the Realms and redesigning local history to account for it, I started the ball rolling - and it's never stopped. I set my game to start in 1379, several years after the official timeline (at the start of 3.0, the campaign setting's current year was 1372). I realize that did all of that so that I could pick and choose from the history at leisure. Although the wonderful and detailed history was a big part of what drew me to the Realms, I couldn't accept it whole cloth and I didn't want to. I had to be able to make my own mark on it. My PCs are making their marks on it, as well. What'm I going to do about the time leap, however large or small? Absolutely nothing. I haven't followed the canon progression for a while; why should I start now? And I can't say that I haven't anticipated some of the changes, honestly. Two of the Seven Sisters have been dead in my game for a couple years now. As I see it, only one or two out of the rest of the Sisters and Mystra will ultimately survive. But they'll die fighting, their deaths will make sense, and their deaths might just give new determination to the Realms. As for nixing some of the gods - I've been considering that for some time. Big changes that threaten major havoc? They've been brewing in my campaign for a good while and they're nearing fruition. However - if I like 4e, and if I like 4e Forgotten Realms, I will probably start a new game to explore it. My pre-established campaigns will continue under 3e and if we don't like 4e, we'll continue on our own. For a long time, I've heard people complain that they've felt crowded out of the Realms by all of the high level NPCs, gods, and history. Some folks really do not understand that many Realms fans enjoy those elements and have no difficulty using (or abandoning) them.
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 05:51 PM	Actually, I've already been told I'm right, but whatever. I sincerely doubt you are.
Inexorable 10-12-07, 07:15 PM	Coping implies dealing with something difficult or a problem of some sort and that really doesn't apply to me as I'm actually looking forward to the changes and the "great skip". I've always looked at all the realms specific products as one big story, whether they are actual novels or compendiums or whatever. Yea you can play in the realms and use the products and information to create your own games and the like but I've always just liked to read about the realms whether I use them in a game or not. I have my favorite characters/entities in the realms and I have those I don't like and whatever happens to them, good or bad, I'll still have an interest in the realms. Like when one of my favorite characters gets killed off in a show or movie or trilogy I keep reading/watching and I plan on doing the same thing here. I guess I like changes, big and small, and all the havoc that usually ensues with them.
MarkusTay63 10-12-07, 11:04 PM	I sincerely doubt you are.You amuse me. :D With all the blog entries, designer posts, and official announcements, you still think all the changes we are in for in 4e FR was covered in those 10 years? Even if the new setting starts the day after Mystra's death in 1385 DR, the text at the end of the GHotR clearly states that the world is going to hell in a handbag. But whatever, only time will tell. ;)
Fingoldfin 10-13-07, 01:41 AM	I sincerely doubt you are. He was told that he was correct in Chris Perkin's blog.
Charles Phipps 10-13-07, 09:38 AM	OH I'm sure SOME things have happened but that doesn't mean the setting itself is totally different.