Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uzzy 12-23-07, 09:24 AM	WoTC_Bruce on the Realms Campaign Setting (http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Pages/Communities/blogpost.aspx?blogpostid=30172&pagemode=2) At least he gives us all a few reasons why the 4th Edition Realms will be 'awesome' this time.
Suin Bahhar 12-23-07, 10:03 AM	I like his enthousiasm.
Fingoldfin 12-23-07, 10:10 AM	I don't doubt that the art will be great. As for the "awesome" and "sweet" stuff in the campaign setting, I'll believe it when I see it. The one weird thing I noticed was the claim that you can pick up the campaign setting and start a game in 10 minutes. I hope he's exaggerating. The only way that line could be true is if they really did make the Realms nothing more than a backdrop for pre-constructed adventure mods. My fear is that all the rich detail of the Realms is gone and all we're left with is a half-paragraph description of each location. I doubt they'll be able to give us any real understanding about the new state of the Realms other than, "it's a dark world with few points of light." With no real context it will only be useful as a backdrop for adventure mods.
Suin Bahhar 12-23-07, 10:31 AM	The one weird thing I noticed was the claim that you can pick up the campaign setting and start a game in 10 minutes. I hope he's exaggerating. The only way that line could be true is if they really did make the Realms nothing more than a backdrop for pre-constructed adventure mods. I think he was aiming at the ease of use of the book with the detailed city it describes.
GothicDan 12-23-07, 11:26 AM	I dunno. His post says a whole lot of nothing. Art, I can take or leave, and I actually laughed a little in real life when I read 'sick.' The thing about forgotten parts of the Realms and neglected parts is good. But the part about advancing timelines/plots? NO. STOP IT, WOTC.
Faraer 12-23-07, 12:46 PM	Ignoring the self-praise (what, is ninja now a base class?): "exciting updates, advancing stories": I don't doubt they are excited by them. I prefer the talk about stories we're going to tell, "leave room for new heroes to take up sword and spell and defend the Realms and have fabulous adventures while doing so", even if it's garbage, since there's more room in the existing Realms than anyone could ever want. As with some of Chris Perkins's comments, what conclusion are we to draw except that Bruce doesn't understand the Realms or that this is insincere hype? "the format for the release is going to be the most useful we've ever utilized for a campaign setting". Coupled with Rich's recent comments about focus, I can well believe this.
GothicDan 12-23-07, 12:52 PM	Ignoring the self-praise (what, is ninja now a base class?): <3
Rauric 12-23-07, 12:55 PM	Lot's of people read FR stuff just for the story and timeline advancement I think. They never even play the game. I think this is why we have to deal with a bunch of the nonsense.
Fingoldfin 12-23-07, 12:55 PM	<3 :confused:
GothicDan 12-23-07, 12:57 PM	Lot's of people read FR stuff just for the story and timeline advancement I think. They never even play the game. I think this is why we have to deal with a bunch of the nonsense. I don't get this. I don't play in FR.
Fingoldfin 12-23-07, 01:02 PM	I just thought of a drinking game for Gen Con and podcast interviews. Take a shot every time a Realms designer uses the words awesome, cool, sick, or wicked to describe the new Forgotten Realms. You'll get ****-faced in no time. :)
Stigger 12-23-07, 02:33 PM	That said pretty much nothing of substantive value... joy.
Green Elven Vampire 12-23-07, 03:32 PM	That blog could've been written by Paris Hilton for I care. It had no substance, no value, and said a plethora of absolutely nothing. All it told me was that the Senior designers are excited about changing a setting that they don't even run a campaign in enough to warrant said changes.
Kenzuki 12-23-07, 04:09 PM	I would certainly expect the plot and story to have advanced considering it's 100 years in the future....that's just me though. Of course I tend to enjoy reading about it even more than playing it these days so that might be my thing....
GothicDan 12-23-07, 04:15 PM	That's IF it's a 100 year jump, which I don't think we've even had verified yet. And some of us didn't want this jump in the first place. It felt like WotC trying to find an avenue of escape after having painted themselves into the corner.
Kenzuki 12-23-07, 04:20 PM	You can play in the past then, it won't hurt you. And those who want a fresh start with new possibilities can play in the future. It's all good.
Mr_Miscellany 12-23-07, 04:26 PM	And the obvious, for those that ‘overlooked’ it: The game designers are stoked, naturally. It’s like a movie producer or a director at a comic book or gaming convention addressing fans; of course said person will be enthusiastic. They’ve put their time and energy into something and they like what they’re doing and they’re the kind of people that like to share that enthusiasm because A) they want to see their work succeed and B) they want as many people to enjoy it as possible. Doesn’t mean the movie (or in this case gaming product) won’t flop, but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong to be stoked. Further, they (the designers) can’t tell us specifics about what’s in the product because it’s way too early. They can only talk about it peripherally. Pretty much every person that’s posted a criticism knows this. But hey, who am I to point out the obvious and ruin everyone’s “w00t let’s all be negative!” fun? :::::::::::::::::: I summarized some of your complaints and criticisms and posted it to Bruce’s blog....I’m curious to see how he responds.
Green Elven Vampire 12-23-07, 04:48 PM	And the obvious, for those that ‘overlooked’ it: The game designers are stoked, naturally. It’s like a movie producer or a director at a comic book or gaming convention addressing fans; of course said person will be enthusiastic. They’ve put their time and energy into something and they like what they’re doing and they’re the kind of people that like to share that enthusiasm because A) they want to see their work succeed and B) they want as many people to enjoy it as possible. Doesn’t mean the movie (or in this case gaming product) won’t flop, but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong to be stoked. Further, they (the designers) can’t tell us specifics about what’s in the product because it’s way too early. They can only talk about it peripherally. Pretty much every person that’s posted a criticism knows this. But hey, who am I to point out the obvious and ruin everyone’s “w00t let’s all be negative!” fun? :::::::::::::::::: I summarized some of your complaints and criticisms and posted it to Bruce’s blog....I’m curious to see how he responds. Ohhh, so being negative is fun? Do you think I like being negative about the changes? I'm negative because the changes are destroying a large part of Faerunian history and lore! But hey, you're the one who's got it all right, so what do I know about how I feel. Yeah, I'm having sooooooo much fun being negative! As much fun as a one legged poodle swimming!
Green Elven Vampire 12-23-07, 04:53 PM	I summarized some of your complaints and criticisms and posted it to Bruce’s blog....I’m curious to see how he responds. You did that cause you're an instigator and a feminine hygiene container!!! Seriously, do you really need to start trouble here?
Mr_Miscellany 12-23-07, 04:58 PM	:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I don't think I've ever been called a "feminine hygiene container", even by Miss Miscellany. But she thought that was damn funny. She says I ought not to report you, for the sake of impacting any future comic relief. :::::::::::::: Faerar doesn't strike me as someone who'll shy away from what he's written. On the contrary, he stands behind what he says, is firmly grounded in his understanding of things as he sees it, and will probably look forward to what Cordell has to say. Fin...don't know him that well, but his concerns are valid. He could be right, you know. You...well, whatever. We'll see. :schemes:
Green Elven Vampire 12-23-07, 05:11 PM	:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I don't think I've ever been called a "feminine hygiene container", even by Miss Miscellany. But she thought that was damn funny. She says I ought not to report you, for the sake of impacting any future comic relief. :::::::::::::: Faerar doesn't strike me as someone who'll shy away from what he's written. On the contrary, he stands behind what he says, is firmly grounded in his understanding of things as he sees it, and will probably look forward to what Cordell has to say. Fin...don't know him that well, but his concerns are valid. He could be right, you know. You...well, whatever. We'll see. :schemes: LoL, my girlfriend laughed at that as well. I'm glad you found that funny and not taking it personal. I have nothing against you, but you still are a instigator, lol.
Rauric 12-23-07, 05:30 PM	I don't see him as an instigator though. He thinks people are overly negative and speaks his mind. I feel the same way but am just starting to cope that people who love repeating themselves on these boards. Good times. I am turning into one. Heh. I really do like what they are doing to the races so far. I figure they will make the Lore match the Realms Lore. They should make it an easy fit just because it is their job to do so as game designers. If not I will be perturbed and handle it myself. Time will tell.
Mr_Miscellany 12-23-07, 05:31 PM	Well then, now that we're all friends (for the moment, heh): I hope we get the other continents of Faerûn thrown in. This is what I hope Bruce is talking about when he says, "Two, realms forgotten will be forgotten no more, and Ed Greenwood is personally behind that vision; who better? It is awesome." Plus, wouldn’t it be great to learn that the stuff we’re getting is coming from Ed’s personal notes? Things he’s always wanted to throw in but couldn’t until now? Then, I could sit back and say to the detractors, “Ah ah ah! *waves finger* No more whining until you eat crow.” Idle speculation, I know. It’s just that the possibility of getting new, genuine lore and having the chance to shove it down the negative nelly’s throats is too much not to ignore. *daydreams some more*
Rauric 12-23-07, 05:40 PM	I would love to see a bit more detail as well. I understand why they are left alone but I would like to see some minimal coverage. Especially if it is from Ed's head.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 06:07 PM	deleted
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 06:08 PM	I have to agree that this blog didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. And I agree that there's already plenty of "room" in the Realms for all kinds of adventures.
Faraer 12-23-07, 06:22 PM	Yes, some people have learned to enjoy the Realms as a chronological conveyor belt, and meeting these needs and those of people who want a setting that's less of a moving target is one of the tasks I don't envy anyone. I think Bruce's post is a bit more informative if you read between the lines and squint a bit. We know from the Chris Perkins interview that "a lot of the work [Ed Greenwood's] doing on the campaign guide is focused on places beyond Faerûn". As I said elsewhere, it's something definite to look forward to. I'd like to hear more about the art, whether there's a coherent new direction. On the face of it, "epic" isn't what we need more of, or is that just another vague superlative?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 06:34 PM	I'd like to hear more about the art, whether there's a coherent new direction. Indeed. I *can* say that I like what I've seen so far regarding 4E art in general. On the face of it, "epic" isn't what we need more of, or is that just another vague superlative? Probably.
Fingoldfin 12-23-07, 07:04 PM	Ok, time for a new drinking game. Every time Rauric or Mr. Miscellany use the words negative or whiner in a post take a shot. :P No offense meant guys. I just think if we all get drunk we'll like the new Realms a whole lot more. ;)
Fingoldfin 12-23-07, 07:09 PM	[QUOTE=Mr_Miscellany;14655394]Well then, now that we're all friends (for the moment, heh): I hope we get the other continents of Faerûn thrown in. This is what I hope Bruce is talking about when he says, "Two, realms forgotten will be forgotten no more, and Ed Greenwood is personally behind that vision; who better? It is awesome." Plus, wouldn’t it be great to learn that the stuff we’re getting is coming from Ed’s personal notes? Things he’s always wanted to throw in but couldn’t until now? Well Mr. Miscellany, I have to agree with you that I am looking forward to Ed's stuff. It's a Point of Light in a World of Darkness. :P
GothicDan 12-23-07, 07:10 PM	When I grow up, I'd like to be Faraer. Mr. Miscellany: Faerar doesn't strike me as someone who'll shy away from what he's written. On the contrary, he stands behind what he says, is firmly grounded in his understanding of things as he sees it, and will probably look forward to what Cordell has to say. Fin...don't know him that well, but his concerns are valid. He could be right, you know. You...well, whatever. We'll see. What about me, eh? EH? ;)
Fingoldfin 12-23-07, 07:22 PM	I don't see him as an instigator though. He thinks people are overly negative and speaks his mind. I feel the same way but am just starting to cope that people who love repeating themselves on these boards. Good times. I am turning into one. Heh. I really do like what they are doing to the races so far. I figure they will make the Lore match the Realms Lore. They should make it an easy fit just because it is their job to do so as game designers. If not I will be perturbed and handle it myself. Time will tell. I don't see Mr. Miscellany as an instigator. Sometimes he gets a little emotive and posts with out thinking. I can't knock him for it though because I've done that as much as anyone on the forums. Why do you like the changes to the races? :confused: I don't care about the cosmetic changes at all. I dislike the changes to the elves and hate the changes between demons and devils.
Stigger 12-23-07, 07:35 PM	I'd say he was a little bit of an instigator... though not alarmingly so. No more than a lot of other people around here at any rate. Sure he can get on my nerves at time, but that's true of most people everywhere, I'm easily irritated that way.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 09:32 PM	People, it's not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it. If you post in a way that violates the CoC, you might end up getting reported. Now, getting back to topic? We were discussing Bruce Cordell's blog, not Mr. Miscellany.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 09:36 PM	I dislike the changes to the elves and hate the changes between demons and devils. I enjoy the new 4E racial concepts and look forward to using them in a setting like the "core" setting, or some other custom campaign setting that was designed around those concepts specifically. It looks like 4E designers are coming up with a specific history for their world (the core setting), and I'm finding it very intriguing so far. I hope they don't drop the ball with it--I'd really love to see a core setting that was crafted with love. I do *not* plan on using many of the new 4E concepts for the Realms, though, as I am happy with the old lore that's already there.
Old Sage 12-23-07, 10:15 PM	Plus, wouldn’t it be great to learn that the stuff we’re getting is coming from Ed’s personal notes? Things he’s always wanted to throw in but couldn’t until now?An important point. And one worthy of support, especially when we consider that many of the places beyond Faerûn that Ed has only ever had the chance to hint about -- in either published Realmslore or through his replies at Candlekeep -- now have a real chance of being fleshed-out in some fashion should Ed decide to draw on his boxes and boxes of notes when contributing material for the "Campaign Guide." I, for one, am looking forward to this particular aspect.
Butterface 12-23-07, 10:52 PM	Ok, time for a new drinking game. Every time Rauric or Mr. Miscellany use the words negative or whiner in a post take a shot. :P No offense meant guys. I just think if we all get drunk we'll like the new Realms a whole lot more. ;) I think a better drinking game would be to take a shot every time someone posts an off topic statement, rather than a question for Rich Baker on the "Ask The Designers. . " thread. :cool:
Green Elven Vampire 12-23-07, 11:32 PM	I think a better drinking game would be to take a shot every time someone posts an off topic statement, rather than a question for Rich Baker on the "Ask The Designers. . " thread. :cool: I think a better drinking game would be to take a shot every time someone complains about people posting off topic statements on certain threads meant for this or that. Butterface, no thread on these forums EVER stay on topic.
MarkusTay63 12-23-07, 11:50 PM	I think a whole lot of you guys need to attend an AA meeting... :rolleyes: The game designers are stoked, naturally. It’s like a movie producer or a director at a comic book or gaming convention addressing fans; of course said person will be enthusiastic.The creators of the new Flash Gordon series were pretty stoked about their 'interpretation' as well... and it was quite possibly one of the worst things ever put on television. Not to be belligerant (since we are all playing nice ATM). but people usually are pretty enthusiatic about something they poured their heart and soul into for two years - that doesn't neccessarily mean the rest of the world will admire their 'genius'. ;) But, we will all wait and see, and hope they pull pull off a freakin' miracle here. You did that cause you're an instigator and a feminine hygiene container!!!:rofl: You really need to get your own HBO special - you make ME look like little Miss Sunshine.
Dark Wizard 12-24-07, 02:38 AM	I think Bruce's comments were nice. Nice meaning a mild, generally positive impression of his statements but nothing specific. I've always thought he had good ideas most of the time. Though you know what all these guys need? Someone to rein them in a bit sometimes. Not sure who. The new Realms so far lacks ... a subtle touch. Hopefully more of that will emerge as we get closer to release.
johnkretzer 12-24-07, 03:20 AM	I find it odd giving that R. Baker over on ask the designers thread have been saying areas outside of the Realms proper(Dalelands, Sword Coast, etc.) won't be touched upon all that much in 4th. Sooo...maybe WotC should get the right hand talking to left hand and maybe I'll have more faith in what they are trying to do...because some things in the Preview book as even made me more worried about it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-24-07, 09:24 AM	Though you know what all these guys need? Someone to rein them in a bit sometimes. Not sure who. The new Realms so far lacks ... a subtle touch. I think there might be some truth to that.
mortellan 12-24-07, 09:48 AM	Open question: When is the last time you picked up a game -setting- book and ran it within 10 minutes? :confused:
Rauric 12-24-07, 09:49 AM	Ok, time for a new drinking game. Every time Rauric or Mr. Miscellany use the words negative or whiner in a post take a shot. :P No offense meant guys. I just think if we all get drunk we'll like the new Realms a whole lot more. ;) :) Good times. If we cannot laugh at all our boards antics than we should just get off of them. I also think Mr Baker's hands are tied at the moment and his mouth has a bomb in it that is he leaks any real info it will take his head clean off. I hope he enjoys the Holidays, I think he really deserves it. All this not saying anything of real importance could be really stressing him out.
msatran 12-24-07, 10:49 AM	I think the problem is that the right hand is doing one thing while the left hand is holding onto the handicapped bar in the bathroom, if you know what I mean. Only WE'RE the ones whose cranks are getting yanked.
Faraer 12-24-07, 10:58 AM	There are a number of seeming contradictions in what we're being told, but it's too early to know which are real and which just represent slight misstatements, parts of a larger approach, our overreading from too little information, etc. J., please don't repost me out of context like that. Of course I stand by what I say, but when I want to e-talk to Bruce, I will, and not in brief references to an ongoing discourse here.
Green Elven Vampire 12-24-07, 11:24 AM	Open question: When is the last time you picked up a game -setting- book and ran it within 10 minutes? :confused: Simply put, never! Getting ready to START a game in 10 minutes is a sheer indication that something is just wrong.
Alediran 12-24-07, 11:27 AM	Simply put, never! Getting ready to START a game in 10 minutes is a sheer indication that something is just wrong. Exactly, just making characters takes at least one hour.
Rauric 12-24-07, 12:14 PM	It will of course take longer than 10 minutes.
MerrikCale 12-24-07, 12:24 PM	Simply put, never! Getting ready to START a game in 10 minutes is a sheer indication that something is just wrong. I thought you liked 4E
18DELTA 12-24-07, 11:27 PM	An important point. And one worthy of support, especially when we consider that many of the places beyond Faerûn that Ed has only ever had the chance to hint about -- in either published Realmslore or through his replies at Candlekeep -- now have a real chance of being fleshed-out in some fashion should Ed decide to draw on his boxes and boxes of notes when contributing material for the "Campaign Guide." I, for one, am looking forward to this particular aspect. :cool: :ayyyy!: :cloud9: Amen to that brother!!!:D
Dark Wizard 12-24-07, 11:36 PM	Ed working on the places outside of Faerun or even lesser known areas of Faerun could be great, or at the very least half decent. He has proved himself to be decent even at his worst when it comes to world creation, that's a hard thing to accomplish. It's not that I don't want to trust the rest of the 4E design team, it's just that what they've shown so far is not as enticing as I would hope. It's all about establishing credibility, a very delicate balance between new ideas and old lore. They've shown plenty of the former but very little of the latter. There needs to be more of a mix, a real mix and not simple posturing or esoteric hints. I hope they pull through for everyone, their sake and ours.
selunatic2397 12-25-07, 12:33 AM	I run a 1ED game. For years anything that I bought had to be seriously rewritten to work with my campaign. With what I have been reading from the devs, I no longer have the need or motivation to do that anymore... It won't be what I think the Realms are anymore. I seem to keep finding their target audience is a ADHD 12 year old with their parents credit card... I just turned 44, and have been gaming since 1978. I really loathe and detest being talked down to by devs that only recently seemed to be mature and intelligent adults. All he seemed to have to say was just the same old same old empty enthusiasm that I get from network tv reps. Y'all go and play 4Ed, I'm sure it will be COOL, AWESOME, and SICK. It just won't be what my players and I think the Realms are any more.
GothicDan 12-25-07, 12:34 AM	Hey, don't knock us ADHD folk. ;)
Fingoldfin 12-25-07, 01:23 AM	I think a whole lot of you guys need to attend an AA meeting... :rolleyes: Come on MarkusTay. Get into the Holiday "Spirits." ;) Seriously, I just wanted to bring a little levity to the boards during the holiday season. :)
Diffan 12-25-07, 01:30 AM	As far as the elves are concerned, I can understand why people are mad. Changing one's racial name to something different would have that effect, but only in game terms. People think that the elves in Faerun will be called Eladrin while they probably will not. They'll keep which ever name they first had, Sun elf for example, but have the stats of the Eladrin from the PHB. Not much change from the things are now in 3.5, considering that grey elves in Greyhawk were pretty much like Sun elves in Faerun. Simply put, never! Getting ready to START a game in 10 minutes is a sheer indication that something is just wrong. Character creation aside, I think it's fairly easy to get a game going with about 10 minutes prep time for the DM. I've done it numerous times that have turned out exceptionally well. Though character creation does take time, alot more than 10 minutes but I don't think that's what the author had in mind of getting a campaign going (unless maybe 1st level *shruggs*). I think a better drinking game would be to take a shot every time someone complains about people posting off topic statements on certain threads meant for this or that. Darn straight, i'm already 3 sheets to the wind. ;) Hey, don't knock us ADHD folk. ;) For once, I actually agree with GD! :eek: Selunatic, do you only play 1ED games, or other editions as well? I ask because, if you don't, i don't see why a newer edition would bother you. You've been through countless RSE's, so what makes this one any different?
Fingoldfin 12-25-07, 01:35 AM	I enjoy the new 4E racial concepts and look forward to using them in a setting like the "core" setting, or some other custom campaign setting that was designed around those concepts specifically. It looks like 4E designers are coming up with a specific history for their world (the core setting), and I'm finding it very intriguing so far. I hope they don't drop the ball with it--I'd really love to see a core setting that was crafted with love. I do *not* plan on using many of the new 4E concepts for the Realms, though, as I am happy with the old lore that's already there. I don't care what they do to core, but I think that all core cosmology and races will be applied to the Realms. The problem I see is that the alignment changes require cosmology and race changes that can only be made in the Realms with absurd retcons. An example I used earlier is the Army of Darkness in the Weeping War. Law and Chaos don't exist in 4e. That means no NE. No NE means no Yugoloths so who led the Army of Darkness?
Diffan 12-25-07, 02:00 AM	I don't care what they do to core, but I think that all core cosmology and races will be applied to the Realms. The problem I see is that the alignment changes require cosmology and race changes that can only be made in the Realms with absurd retcons. An example I used earlier is the Army of Darkness in the Weeping War. Law and Chaos don't exist in 4e. That means no NE. No NE means no Yugoloths so who led the Army of Darkness? The Yugoloths, though now they're just evil. Does it really matter that they were also Neutral? A malevolent force of Yugoloths led the Army of Darkness in the Weeping War. Why does it have to be so darn specific??! And, still there's no actual proof that they're doing away completly with the Law/Chaos axis of aligment, just changing it. We dont know for certain anything beyond that they're changing it.
Fingoldfin 12-25-07, 03:09 AM	The Yugoloths, though now they're just evil. Does it really matter that they were also Neutral? A malevolent force of Yugoloths led the Army of Darkness in the Weeping War. Why does it have to be so darn specific??! And, still there's no actual proof that they're doing away completly with the Law/Chaos axis of aligment, just changing it. We dont know for certain anything beyond that they're changing it. I thought that the alignment change was official. Am I wrong? As for the Yugoloths, they are retconning the Baaetzu, Tanar'ri, and Eladrin. I believe these retcons are a result of the alignment change. I expect the lore for the Yugoloths to change completely if they still exist. In 2e and 3e they constantly switch sides in the eternal Blood War between the Tanar'ri and the Baaetzu to maintain a neutral balance among the forces of evil in the multi-verse. (That maybe the dorkiest thing I ever typed.) Why should they exist at all if there are no Law and Chaos alignments? I know most people don't care, but I'm a big Planescape fan. I use Planescape, Forgotten Realms, Maztica, Kara-Tur, and Al-Qadim as one big mega-setting. I think everyone can see why the designer's stated goal of making the Realms smaller and simpler doesn't appeal to me. To me thats like trying to make a PB&J without the peanut butter and jelly. All Planescape Fanatics know that fiends and undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil. Right Gothic Dan. ;)
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 04:08 AM	-I really don't want to see WotC "unveil" all of those undetailed continents. I like being able to wonder what's there. The only exception is Anchorome. We know it's there, north of Maztica, and teeny-tiny little bit about it. I'd like to see Ed come out and say, definitivley, Anchorome is "such and such". Not a series of unlimited and random dungeons, though. Boo-ring. Well, boring if that's it, anyway. -As a side note, why are they constantly using dumb words like 'sick' and 'stoked'? The first, I remember hearing when I was like in 6th grade (1997), and the latter, I've never even heard before.
Rauric 12-25-07, 07:01 AM	If Ed gives us details on those lost places I will be very happy. If it strictly someone else, I will he somewhat happy. I am curious as to see what ED had planned for the whole worl.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 07:38 AM	If Ed gives us details on those lost places I will be very happy. If it strictly someone else, I will he somewhat happy. I am curious as to see what ED had planned for the whole worl. -You wouldn't want to leave large parts of terra incognita for posterity's sake?
Diffan 12-25-07, 08:14 AM	I thought that the alignment change was official. Am I wrong? As for the Yugoloths, they are retconning the Baaetzu, Tanar'ri, and Eladrin. I believe these retcons are a result of the alignment change. I expect the lore for the Yugoloths to change completely if they still exist. In 2e and 3e they constantly switch sides in the eternal Blood War between the Tanar'ri and the Baaetzu to maintain a neutral balance among the forces of evil in the multi-verse. (That maybe the dorkiest thing I ever typed.) Why should they exist at all if there are no Law and Chaos alignments? All that's been released about alignments is that they are changing. Something about people's character forced to fit and play the role of their alignment or some such. I think it'll have a game impact that deals with spells, abilities, and requirements. From what i've heard about devils and demons is that Devils are now mostly fallen angels or celestials, which I for one like. It certainly has a Christian theme to it, but I think it's not far off the mark. While Demons are more beastial and (for lack of a better word) chaotic creatures. There isn't that much "retconning" and it doesn't even mess with lore really, what with Malkizid already a fallen celestial for example.
selunatic2397 12-25-07, 11:41 AM	As far as the elves are concerned, I can understand why people are mad. Changing one's racial name to something different would have that effect, but only in game terms. People think that the elves in Faerun will be called Eladrin while they probably will not. They'll keep which ever name they first had, Sun elf for example, but have the stats of the Eladrin from the PHB. Not much change from the things are now in 3.5, considering that grey elves in Greyhawk were pretty much like Sun elves in Faerun. Character creation aside, I think it's fairly easy to get a game going with about 10 minutes prep time for the DM. I've done it numerous times that have turned out exceptionally well. Though character creation does take time, alot more than 10 minutes but I don't think that's what the author had in mind of getting a campaign going (unless maybe 1st level *shruggs*). Darn straight, i'm already 3 sheets to the wind. ;) For once, I actually agree with GD! :eek: Selunatic, do you only play 1ED games, or other editions as well? I ask because, if you don't, i don't see why a newer edition would bother you. You've been through countless RSE's, so what makes this one any different? It bothers me because in the past RSEs the Realms were still...the Realms. But now with the setting being butchered by inept refugees from a slasher flick, something that I have loved and cared for for the last 20 years has been turned into something that I can not even recognize anymore. My posts to Rich only got answered due to my calling him facetious, and even then he just restated his original answers without really answering anything. I am losing an old and valued friend in the name of making it NEW and AWESOME, COOL and SICK! We all know that the new target audience will just go back to WOW the moment that the new expanded content flavor of the month comes out, which it will when WOTC starts getting a few monthly subscribers for their online content. I ate so much fecal matter from my group when 2ED came out and 2 minor NPCs became gods...I had to let them read the modules to save my good name and honest/fair reputation. 3ED did not have a real RSE, so I didn't have to do much except ignore it and rewrite all the support materials I bought. 4ED will change the Realms so much that my players have told me that it will not be what they think of when the Realms come to mind. I work full time in retail and just do not have the time to create as much as I used to. The 3ED material saved me a nice chunk of time for my every other fridays. Since the novels are also being 4ED CANON, only my one RAS fan will probably buy his books. None of the rest even bother anymore. By the time 5ED hits, my campaign will have gone far enough that even if it's a partial to complete reset...it would take too much time that I no longer can spare to rework it. I value and cherish my players opinions and views and breathed a sigh of relief when the told me to just don't bother anymore. So that is why 4ED bothers me so much, something I love has been sacrificed on the online MMORPG altar to the god of NEW, AWESOME, COOL, and SICK. To me, the Realms are not the Realms anymore. Have fun with 4ED...that is why we play this game after all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-25-07, 02:20 PM	-I really don't want to see WotC "unveil" all of those undetailed continents. I like being able to wonder what's there. Agreed, I think SOME places should be left to the imagination. I like some mystery, that's part of what the setting is all about.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 03:30 PM	It bothers me because in the past RSEs the Realms were still...the Realms. -That's true. The Time of Troubles, the Dracorage, all that...They had large impacts on the Realms, but the Realms still were the Realms. There were no permanent radical changes, in the long run. Agreed, I think SOME places should be left to the imagination. I like some mystery, that's part of what the setting is all about. -Exactly.
MerrikCale 12-25-07, 11:13 PM	All that's been released about alignments is that they are changing. I believe they have also said that no intelligent monster will have a fixed alignment
Fire_Wraith 12-25-07, 11:31 PM	I believe they have also said that no intelligent monster will have a fixed alignment Would this include demons and devils? :P
Mr_Miscellany 12-26-07, 01:02 AM	Open question: When is the last time you picked up a game -setting- book and ran it within 10 minutes? :confused:Truth be told? The Anourach Adventure. I left my copy at home so had to go to the local independent book store near where we game (much closer than my house, let me tell you) to grab another copy. I'd day it took me 15 minutes to grab food for the guys, then drive home, but then I cracked the book open and was using it right away. Yeah yeah, prior-reading of it helped. But hey, you do what'cha gotta do to keep the game going.
Mr_Miscellany 12-26-07, 01:04 AM	J., please don't repost me out of context like that. Of course I stand by what I say, but when I want to e-talk to Bruce, I will, and not in brief references to an ongoing discourse here. (It's "M" round these parts.) I tried posting a hyperlink and reformatting, but damn if that text format isn't as limited as all get out. Gleemax "Alpha" indeed.
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 01:10 AM	Gleemax "Alpha" indeed. -The way of the future, don't you know. :rolleyes:
Hanali-in-Love 12-26-07, 01:18 AM	-The way of the future, don't you know. :rolleyes: I hate the new realms. At least I'll save money since I won't buy a single 4E book.
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 01:37 AM	I hate the new realms. At least I'll save money since I won't buy a single 4E book. -I was talking about Gleemax, but okay.