Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hawkinsthedm 10-24-07, 07:29 PM	Does anyone else have the feeling that they (read: WotC, and to some: The Man) purposely left these three accessories out of 3e so people who want updated Realmslore on them will have to buy the associated 4e accessories? Maybe it is just me, but it feels like an attempt at a forced conversion to 4e.
MarkusTay63 10-24-07, 07:37 PM	I don't think it was any sort of clandestine plot. :rolleyes: More likely we were just being ignored in favor of the WotC love-child, Eberron. :bored: You know the one... the one that won 1st place for originality despite the fact that it is a total rip-off of Iron Kingdoms... the one created by the guy with the same last name as Rich Baker... Now if you want conspiracy theories.... ;)
18DELTA 10-24-07, 10:18 PM	They will probably be the biggest regions in the "Living Realms":rolleyes:
Questing GM 10-25-07, 12:16 PM	Or also the fact that there were already sourcebooks for those regions in 2nd ed...
hawkinsthedm 10-25-07, 12:36 PM	Or also the fact that there were already sourcebooks for those regions in 2nd ed... There were also 2e accessories for most (if not all) of the region-specific accessories in 3e. I.E. Waterdeep, Shining South, Expedition to Undermountain, et cetera. That did not keep them from printing updated material on them. Why not the most popular places to play?
Questing GM 10-26-07, 07:51 AM	Well, the Dalelands has been mostly updated through the novels and Cormyr through the Cormyr trilogy and minor mentions here and there through unrelated novels... I had also really hoped that WoTC had come up with new source book material for those 3 regions you mentioned because they were the primary areas which i had been interested to run my campaigns in, but now that 4e is coming i guess it never happened. But given how much information can be found in the older source books and the amount fluff contained in them, i couldn't complain when I compared them to the content of the 3e era sourcebooks ;) Now with the Grand History of the Realm, i think it gives enough information to update the recent happenings of these 3 areas (just speculation since i haven't got my hands on it yet). In fact, with has been recently going on in the Dalelands (The Final Mythal and the Shadowdale adventure), a sourcebook published before those novels would have made it a little pointless. If there's anything i'm grumbling about WoTC not publishing any sourcebook material or regionbook during the 3E period-before 4E would be for the Western Heartlands (I want to adventure in the miles of miles upon miles of miles!).
hawkinsthedm 10-26-07, 11:45 AM	Well, the Dalelands has been mostly updated through the novels and Cormyr through the Cormyr trilogy and minor mentions here and there through unrelated novels... . . . If there's anything i'm grumbling about WoTC not publishing any sourcebook material or regionbook during the 3E period-before 4E would be for the Western Heartlands (I want to adventure in the miles of miles upon miles of miles!). I knew there was a region I was leaving out! So, anyways, I would like to see updated accessories for all for regions in 4e. Especially since Rich indicated that they would be more lore heavy and less mechanic heavy in 4e. (Somewhere in the Ask the Authors/Designers thread).
MarkusTay63 10-26-07, 12:23 PM	I want an Old Empires sourcebook. LEoF was good, but it it was too broad-reaching to get into any detail about the stuff covered in the original OE.
Questing GM 10-26-07, 12:42 PM	Another region that i would like to place in the list is the lovable neighbours of the Dalelands and Cormyr; Sembia. Don't know of any sourcebooks that has been released (2E, most definately not 3E) for this particular region and it has been the source of so much intrigue in the Dalelands and Cormyr. :weep:
johnkretzer 10-27-07, 06:16 AM	Another region that i would like to place in the list is the lovable neighbours of the Dalelands and Cormyr; Sembia. Don't know of any sourcebooks that has been released (2E, most definately not 3E) for this particular region and it has been the source of so much intrigue in the Dalelands and Cormyr. :weep: There is a reason why they didn't put out a souce book for Sembia. They promised not to so that DMs could develope on their own...it seems though that they have decided to do it anyway and we will propably see Sembia developed(as it has been in novels) as the Empire of the Shades who I believe will end up in control...
MarkusTay63 10-27-07, 12:54 PM	But, like usual, the authors destroyed another region that was supposed to be left up to DMs. Authors MUST be stopped!!! Another sourcebook we need is the Bloodstone Lands - but with a broader reach. ALL of the countries surrounding the Earthspur and Galena Mountains can mine Bloodstone, so besides Vaasa and Damara, one could include Impiltur, The Vast, and The Ride. Impiltur gets lumped into the UE all the time, but then they just give it a peripheral treatment in that book. By expanding the nations covered by the Bloodstone Lands, we can come up with a much-needed source for those areas BETWEEN the Heartlands and the Unapproachable East. Why re-do FR, when there is so much more they could have done with 3e FR? :confused:
johnkretzer 10-27-07, 03:45 PM	But, like usual, the authors destroyed another region that was supposed to be left up to DMs. Authors MUSt be stopped!!! Another sourcebook we need is the Bloodstone Lands - but with a broader reach. ALL of the countries surrounding the Earthspur and Galena Mountains can mine Bloodstone, so besides Vaasa and Damara, one could include Impiltur, The Vast, and The Ride. Impiltur gets lumped into the UE all the time, but then they just give it a peripheral treatment in that book. By expanding the nations covered by the Bloodstone Lands, we can come up with a much-needed source for those areas BETWEEN the Heartlands and the Unapproachable East. Why re-do FR, when there is so much more they could have done with 3e FR? :confused: Because they don't like what has been develope before hand?
Dark Wizard 10-27-07, 09:56 PM	They could reclaim Kara-Tur and have something like three times the landmass to work with. Given that the flavor is not for everyone and reducing appeal accordingly that's still probably twice as much territory as they have now, but that will never happen of course.
Mr_Miscellany 10-28-07, 03:42 AM	But, like usual, the authors destroyed another region that was supposed to be left up to DMs. ??? Wasn't it Cormyr, and not Sembia, that was to be left alone? Regardless, that comitment was made way back during 1E (IIRC). Things have obviously changed. Why re-do FR, when there is so much more they could have done with 3e FR? :confused: Because 4E is coming out. That was easy. Ask me another one! :P :::::::::::: I don't think there's any merit to the idea that we have no sourcebooks for Cormyr, the Dalelands, and the Lands of Intrigue because they're being 'saved' for 4E. Problems come, problems go. But if you go looking for them you're bound to find one, even if it's one of your own devising. :P :P
MarkusTay63 10-28-07, 09:06 AM	NO... it was definately Sembia. Cormyr was supposed to be developed in detail as one of the starter locations for campaigns. And my point was, which YOU obviously missed, that with each edition we keep getting the SAME sourcebooks. I'm tired of the south and east, Waterdeep and Undermountain. I want them to actually get creative this time out and give us something about the neglected regions. Oh... wait... thats right.... they arbitrarily decided no one cares about those regions because THEY haven't done any sourcebooks on them in years. Nice self-fulfilling prophecy, there. :rolleyes:
Mr_Miscellany 10-28-07, 03:00 PM	NO... it was definately Sembia. You're correct. I checked my old copy of the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms (circa 1987) and found Sembia listed along with The Serpent Hills (east of the High Moor), The Wood of Sharp Teeth and The Desertsedge Mountains (outside the Dales) --all as regions to be left alone for Realms DMs to use as they wished without fear of later modules invalidating a Realms DM's work. It's worth noting they also set aside the area accross the Dragon Reach near the River Vesper for RPGA gaming. Of course DMs could detail it themsevles if they wished. And my point was, which YOU obviously missed, that with each edition we keep getting the SAME sourcebooks. I'm tired of the south and east, Waterdeep and Undermountain. C'mon now, Markus. You're claimed the authors destroyed another reserved region. My response showed you were relying on information that's 20 years out of date. As to your new point: There's no good reason to make the claim that we're getting the 'same' sourcebooks, because it's a generalization that forgets each of the most popular areas needs to be updated as the timeline passes, and more importantly that new-to-the-setting gamers should not be expected to rely on older edition books for all of their information. It simply can't be avoided that we'll see certain of the same cities, regions and territories covered with each new edition (or after major events in the novels that touch on those areas). That said, IMO Cormyr is long overdue. I have found the novel trilogy centered around the War in Cormyr to be sufficient to build off of on my own for the last eight years, but I still want something new. I want to see (a 4E) treatment of Cormyr. I think Cormyr could be a kind of 'point of light' type location, but in the broader sense that Cormyr as a whole is (mostly) safe and civilized, but all lands around it -from war ravaged Sembia, to the Stonelands and further north to the unknowns in the depths of Anorauch/The Empire of Netheril, to the lands south and east where no nation rules proper- are areas full of danger and peril. I want them to actually get creative this time out and give us something about the neglected regions. Oh... wait... thats right.... they arbitrarily decided no one cares about those regions because THEY haven't done any sourcebooks on them in years. Nice self-fulfilling prophecy, there. :rolleyes: You really, really, really need to get a hold on yourself. Your seeming lack of knowledge of the processes that go into deciding what areas get covered (that is, your willingness to simply generalize for lack of a more informed opinion –to wit: “arbitrarily” ) borders on the insulting. Your conclusions….just don’t follow. You may not like the decisions that have been made, but that’s no excuse to denigrate WotC. Here, have a :cookie: and wipe your eyes :tissue:. It'll all be OK. Honest.
Dark Wizard 10-28-07, 05:39 PM	I would like a Cormyr book for 4E, enough has changed in the years of 3e and the potential changes of 4E to make it a very worthwhile subject to cover in a source book. I think it is important to maintain the release of supplements on core areas of the Realms for each new edition because they represent good starting areas that establish the basic feel of the setting, that's good for players of all types, new and old. However, I do think WotC's lack of coverage for the less-popular areas does strongly contribute to the disinterest in those regions.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-28-07, 06:44 PM	You really, really, really need to get a hold on yourself. Oh come on. Markus is who he is--I don't want him to change.:P