CotSQ and Player's Death [Archive] - Wizards Community

CotSQ and Player's Death [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LordArcheron
09-08-04, 01:34 AM Hi,

City of the Spider Queen has a huge scope.
I am wondering how you handle it if a player dies (for example in the middle of the adventure) and he/she has not the chance of resurrection.

Don't tell me to throw the book away. I don't want to make my hard earned money investment useless :-)
Kezghan
09-08-04, 02:52 AM well from what ive read, its highly recommended to have a cleric in the party, with access to raise dead and the various other ressurection spells. It is a deadly adventure, and should be seeing its all about drow.

I am starting running said adventure in a few weeks with an evil party based out of Sshamath, City of Dark Weavings. Most of the party is drow.
warlockco
09-08-04, 03:27 AM Just drop scrolls of raise dead, resurrection and true resurrection, or a staff of resurrection, and if the rogue in the party has worked on Use Magic Device, shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Personally, if given the choice between a Cleric or a Wizard in a party, I will pick the Cleric. Sure don't have the big bang spells, but I would rather have to fight harder and still be alive, then have to fight to just stay alive all the time.
LordArcheron
09-08-04, 04:46 AM Problem: No Clerics available :weep:

1 x Fighter, Druid, Wizard, Ranger

BTW: How does the "Use Magic Device" work?
Do all Spellcaster have automatically a success of using such devices?
Rods, Staff and Wands works automatically for them?
Can a Druid or a Wizard use Scrolls with Divine Spells?
(I am a bit confused, because on Neverwinter Nights i couldn't use Divine Spellcrolls as a Wizard)
Lovinda Coldeyes
09-08-04, 06:01 AM Don't you forget to monitor the progress of the weave disruptions.
Its effect on magic can be hazardous when they heat turns on...
Spells from wands, staffs and scrolls are likewise impeded.

The faerzeress can also be a threat to spellcasters using teleportspells to get back to safety between battles.

Not all of the characters will survive, that's for sure.
LordArcheron
09-08-04, 06:17 AM Don't you forget to monitor the progress of the weave disruptions.
Its effect on magic can be hazardous when they heat turns on...
Spells from wands, staffs and scrolls are likewise impeded.

The faerzeress can also be a threat to spellcasters using teleportspells to get back to safety between battles.

Not all of the characters will survive, that's for sure.

But only spells who uses posotive energy or those spells like Heal and so on.
So Clerics are a bit more "useless" in supporting with healing.

I hope they will (or do i really hope? :D ) survive. Maybe at last Irae will slap them all at last ;-)
But True Resurrection is really expensive 25000GP each, or?
Laucian Galailo
09-08-04, 05:35 PM The druid can use Reincarnate (a 4th grade Spell) to bring back the charakters from dead.

But most Players dont like being reborn as bugbars or something :D
Crust
09-08-04, 06:22 PM Just roll up another character. Give him a drow who is disguised as a surfacer. Play that out.
ruleslawyer
09-10-04, 01:43 PM Or give him a rogue drow. Or a desmodu. Or a svirfneblin. Or a half-dragon spawn of whatsisname the shadow dragon. If you do lose a PC, and there's no way to resurrect him/her, this can be an exciting opportunity to play a monstrous character. The levels in CotSQ are such that even high-ECL monster characters are possible.

Incidentally, Use Magic Device works according to the skill charts in the PHB. To use a spell-trigger item (such as a staff), the character must use the "emulate class feature" aspect of the ability. Spellcasters without ranks in UMD can use only those magic items for which they meet the prerequisites (i.e. having the spell on their class spell list for a wand or staff, or having the matching spell type (arcane or divine) AND having the spell on their spell list for a spell-completion item like a scroll). Rods can be used by everybody.

This means:
-A wizard can use scrolls of arcane spells that are on the sorc/wiz spell list. He cannot use any other scrolls unless he has ranks in UMD, in which case he can attempt to "emulate class feature" to use them. He can use wands or staves that trigger spells that are on the sorc/wiz spell list, regardless of whether those spells are arcane or divine.

-A druid can use scrolls of divine spells on the druid spell list, and use wands or staves that trigger spells on the druid spell list, whether those spells are arcane or divine. He can use items that are usable by anyone (like rods). He cannot use scrolls that have arcane spells, even if those spells are on his spell list, unless he has UMD and succeeds in a check to "Emulate Class Feature."
schulerta
09-10-04, 03:07 PM {THIS IS ASSUMING 3.5}
I don't think activating a scroll of a spell that isn't on your list is as easy as a DC 20 UMD check. Right above "Use a wand" is "Use a scroll". The DC is 20 + caster level of the scroll.

Assuming minimum caster level for the scrolls in question, the DC ranges from 21 (1st level) to 37 (9th level). On top of that if you are arcane, and the spell is divine, you have to have a high enough Wisdom score in order to cast that spell, which means you have to emulate a high enough Wisdom score (your emulated ability score is equal to your roll + UMD mod - 15).

For example, I have a tenth level Wizard with 13 ranks of UMD, 10 Wis, 20 Int, 14 Cha. Our party found a Scroll of Destruction (7th level Cleric [Death domain] Spell) and we don't have a Divine caster in our group that can use it, so my wizard has it.

So, in order for my wizard to use that scroll I would have to roll the following:

Emulate a 17 Wisdom: DC 15 + 17 = 32; I have a +15 UMD modifier. So I would need a 17 on a D20.
Then, Use a Scroll: DC 20 + 13 = 33; For scrolls my mod is +19, I have at least 5 ranks in Decipher Script and Spellcraft, so I would need a 14 or higher on my second D20 roll.

It is pretty tough and you really need a lot of ranks/high Charisma modifier. If you are a caster, and want to use UMD, look into the Loremaster. First it is a class skill for them. On top of that with a decent Intelligence mod (+3) you can max out your ranks in UMD at 8th level (11 ranks). Take the Instant Mastery Secret which grants 4 free ranks in any skill you don't have ranks in, and then dump 7 ranks into it.

Hope that helps,
Troy
Quinn the Dark
09-14-04, 04:27 PM A question:
The adventure is set for 10th-level chars, if i plan to play it with a group of drow, should they be of level 10 or 8 because of the level adjustment?
gss_000
09-14-04, 05:42 PM A question:
The adventure is set for 10th-level chars, if i plan to play it with a group of drow, should they be of level 10 or 8 because of the level adjustment?

Technically, 8, because with their ECL they will be effectively 10th level. However, I've just come off a game where I played a drow of this level and I must say that characters with ECL can easily be _less_ effective than normal PC races, especially drow, when they reach these levels. The benefits of being a drow are just not that good at these levels, and as I've also played this mod, I'd not recommend it unless you're willing to bump up the character level some. Especially at the later sections of the mod, the loss of spellcasting levels gets rough.

To solve your other problem of not having a cleric, you can do what has been mentioned before and have the ranger and druid pick up some of the slack. The party should buy the wands and scrolls they can use to make up for a lack of clerical magic and stock up on potions as well. PCs can also make benefit of the Leadership feat. Then you can have a cleric cohort join the party. Or you can give them a chance to hire/convince a cleric to join the party. You could even decide to have a cleric of Eliastree (sp) or another goodly god _ask_ to join. If you're worried about party balance with these last few options, don't be. The mod was challenging when we had 6 PCs.

BTW, I will say that I did have a blast playing it.
Quinn the Dark
09-14-04, 05:52 PM I just read the Dordrien Crypts part...
eh...2 bebiliths?...against 4 lvl 10 chars?...

i don't like my players to be overloaded with magic items though they are drow, but 2 bebiliths are a way to though i guess...

any experience with the Crypts or any tips for dm-ing?
Only let them encounter 1 bebilith?
Land Outcast
09-14-04, 06:16 PM Mabe I'm mad, or just raving mad, or just lost at all from sanity's sight

2 huge half-fiend(with no wings) monstrous spiders of 11HD.
ClobberinTime
09-15-04, 10:31 AM i think someone posted that the spell windwalk can be a huge help in moving around in the module and really cut down on the travel times, shadow walk might help too.

That being said, honestly I think the timeline is such that they might be able to make it up and back by just walking, otherwise put a portal in there, maybe where the giants are or close to it, have the giants tell them about it.

I think its great you guys don't have a cleric partys of all non-multiclassed iconic Fight-Cleric-Roque-Wiz seem the most effective. One fun thing to do is make the Group have a theme- i.e. everyone is a wizard, but one is a wiz-rogue-Arcane trickster, one is a mystic Theurge, one is an Arcane archer and one is a blade singer or eldritch knight, It just makes the RP more fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordArcheron 09-08-04, 01:34 AM	Hi, City of the Spider Queen has a huge scope. I am wondering how you handle it if a player dies (for example in the middle of the adventure) and he/she has not the chance of resurrection. Don't tell me to throw the book away. I don't want to make my hard earned money investment useless :-)
Kezghan 09-08-04, 02:52 AM	well from what ive read, its highly recommended to have a cleric in the party, with access to raise dead and the various other ressurection spells. It is a deadly adventure, and should be seeing its all about drow. I am starting running said adventure in a few weeks with an evil party based out of Sshamath, City of Dark Weavings. Most of the party is drow.
warlockco 09-08-04, 03:27 AM	Just drop scrolls of raise dead, resurrection and true resurrection, or a staff of resurrection, and if the rogue in the party has worked on Use Magic Device, shouldn't be too much of a problem. Personally, if given the choice between a Cleric or a Wizard in a party, I will pick the Cleric. Sure don't have the big bang spells, but I would rather have to fight harder and still be alive, then have to fight to just stay alive all the time.
LordArcheron 09-08-04, 04:46 AM	Problem: No Clerics available :weep: 1 x Fighter, Druid, Wizard, Ranger BTW: How does the "Use Magic Device" work? Do all Spellcaster have automatically a success of using such devices? Rods, Staff and Wands works automatically for them? Can a Druid or a Wizard use Scrolls with Divine Spells? (I am a bit confused, because on Neverwinter Nights i couldn't use Divine Spellcrolls as a Wizard)
Lovinda Coldeyes 09-08-04, 06:01 AM	Don't you forget to monitor the progress of the weave disruptions. Its effect on magic can be hazardous when they heat turns on... Spells from wands, staffs and scrolls are likewise impeded. The faerzeress can also be a threat to spellcasters using teleportspells to get back to safety between battles. Not all of the characters will survive, that's for sure.
LordArcheron 09-08-04, 06:17 AM	Don't you forget to monitor the progress of the weave disruptions. Its effect on magic can be hazardous when they heat turns on... Spells from wands, staffs and scrolls are likewise impeded. The faerzeress can also be a threat to spellcasters using teleportspells to get back to safety between battles. Not all of the characters will survive, that's for sure. But only spells who uses posotive energy or those spells like Heal and so on. So Clerics are a bit more "useless" in supporting with healing. I hope they will (or do i really hope? :D ) survive. Maybe at last Irae will slap them all at last ;-) But True Resurrection is really expensive 25000GP each, or?
Laucian Galailo 09-08-04, 05:35 PM	The druid can use Reincarnate (a 4th grade Spell) to bring back the charakters from dead. But most Players dont like being reborn as bugbars or something :D
Crust 09-08-04, 06:22 PM	Just roll up another character. Give him a drow who is disguised as a surfacer. Play that out.
ruleslawyer 09-10-04, 01:43 PM	Or give him a rogue drow. Or a desmodu. Or a svirfneblin. Or a half-dragon spawn of whatsisname the shadow dragon. If you do lose a PC, and there's no way to resurrect him/her, this can be an exciting opportunity to play a monstrous character. The levels in CotSQ are such that even high-ECL monster characters are possible. Incidentally, Use Magic Device works according to the skill charts in the PHB. To use a spell-trigger item (such as a staff), the character must use the "emulate class feature" aspect of the ability. Spellcasters without ranks in UMD can use only those magic items for which they meet the prerequisites (i.e. having the spell on their class spell list for a wand or staff, or having the matching spell type (arcane or divine) AND having the spell on their spell list for a spell-completion item like a scroll). Rods can be used by everybody. This means: -A wizard can use scrolls of arcane spells that are on the sorc/wiz spell list. He cannot use any other scrolls unless he has ranks in UMD, in which case he can attempt to "emulate class feature" to use them. He can use wands or staves that trigger spells that are on the sorc/wiz spell list, regardless of whether those spells are arcane or divine. -A druid can use scrolls of divine spells on the druid spell list, and use wands or staves that trigger spells on the druid spell list, whether those spells are arcane or divine. He can use items that are usable by anyone (like rods). He cannot use scrolls that have arcane spells, even if those spells are on his spell list, unless he has UMD and succeeds in a check to "Emulate Class Feature."
schulerta 09-10-04, 03:07 PM	{THIS IS ASSUMING 3.5} I don't think activating a scroll of a spell that isn't on your list is as easy as a DC 20 UMD check. Right above "Use a wand" is "Use a scroll". The DC is 20 + caster level of the scroll. Assuming minimum caster level for the scrolls in question, the DC ranges from 21 (1st level) to 37 (9th level). On top of that if you are arcane, and the spell is divine, you have to have a high enough Wisdom score in order to cast that spell, which means you have to emulate a high enough Wisdom score (your emulated ability score is equal to your roll + UMD mod - 15). For example, I have a tenth level Wizard with 13 ranks of UMD, 10 Wis, 20 Int, 14 Cha. Our party found a Scroll of Destruction (7th level Cleric [Death domain] Spell) and we don't have a Divine caster in our group that can use it, so my wizard has it. So, in order for my wizard to use that scroll I would have to roll the following: Emulate a 17 Wisdom: DC 15 + 17 = 32; I have a +15 UMD modifier. So I would need a 17 on a D20. Then, Use a Scroll: DC 20 + 13 = 33; For scrolls my mod is +19, I have at least 5 ranks in Decipher Script and Spellcraft, so I would need a 14 or higher on my second D20 roll. It is pretty tough and you really need a lot of ranks/high Charisma modifier. If you are a caster, and want to use UMD, look into the Loremaster. First it is a class skill for them. On top of that with a decent Intelligence mod (+3) you can max out your ranks in UMD at 8th level (11 ranks). Take the Instant Mastery Secret which grants 4 free ranks in any skill you don't have ranks in, and then dump 7 ranks into it. Hope that helps, Troy
Quinn the Dark 09-14-04, 04:27 PM	A question: The adventure is set for 10th-level chars, if i plan to play it with a group of drow, should they be of level 10 or 8 because of the level adjustment?
gss_000 09-14-04, 05:42 PM	A question: The adventure is set for 10th-level chars, if i plan to play it with a group of drow, should they be of level 10 or 8 because of the level adjustment? Technically, 8, because with their ECL they will be effectively 10th level. However, I've just come off a game where I played a drow of this level and I must say that characters with ECL can easily be _less_ effective than normal PC races, especially drow, when they reach these levels. The benefits of being a drow are just not that good at these levels, and as I've also played this mod, I'd not recommend it unless you're willing to bump up the character level some. Especially at the later sections of the mod, the loss of spellcasting levels gets rough. To solve your other problem of not having a cleric, you can do what has been mentioned before and have the ranger and druid pick up some of the slack. The party should buy the wands and scrolls they can use to make up for a lack of clerical magic and stock up on potions as well. PCs can also make benefit of the Leadership feat. Then you can have a cleric cohort join the party. Or you can give them a chance to hire/convince a cleric to join the party. You could even decide to have a cleric of Eliastree (sp) or another goodly god _ask_ to join. If you're worried about party balance with these last few options, don't be. The mod was challenging when we had 6 PCs. BTW, I will say that I did have a blast playing it.
Quinn the Dark 09-14-04, 05:52 PM	I just read the Dordrien Crypts part... eh...2 bebiliths?...against 4 lvl 10 chars?... i don't like my players to be overloaded with magic items though they are drow, but 2 bebiliths are a way to though i guess... any experience with the Crypts or any tips for dm-ing? Only let them encounter 1 bebilith?
Land Outcast 09-14-04, 06:16 PM	Mabe I'm mad, or just raving mad, or just lost at all from sanity's sight 2 huge half-fiend(with no wings) monstrous spiders of 11HD.
ClobberinTime 09-15-04, 10:31 AM	i think someone posted that the spell windwalk can be a huge help in moving around in the module and really cut down on the travel times, shadow walk might help too. That being said, honestly I think the timeline is such that they might be able to make it up and back by just walking, otherwise put a portal in there, maybe where the giants are or close to it, have the giants tell them about it. I think its great you guys don't have a cleric partys of all non-multiclassed iconic Fight-Cleric-Roque-Wiz seem the most effective. One fun thing to do is make the Group have a theme- i.e. everyone is a wizard, but one is a wiz-rogue-Arcane trickster, one is a mystic Theurge, one is an Arcane archer and one is a blade singer or eldritch knight, It just makes the RP more fun.