Crunchy stuff in Power of Faerun book? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crunchy stuff in Power of Faerun book? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
greymarch
03-06-06, 02:48 PM So, is there any crunchy stuff in the Power of Faerun book due next week? You know...feats, spells, monster stats, npc stats, prestige classes, etc?

From the previews I have read so far, it sounds like the book is chalked full of roleplaying ideas and has very little, if any, crunchy stuff.
Dark Wizard
03-06-06, 02:52 PM From what I gather on the Candlekeep forums, two PrCs, the Court Herald and the Merchant Prince. And about 5-6 feats, most having to do with religion. Maybe a handful of magic items. I think I heard Eric Boyd say all the crunch will be dispersed through the book rather than in a discrete section.

I rather like the flavor and lore heavy format. I like crunch too, but we've had quite a bit of that recently.
greymarch
03-06-06, 05:00 PM I rather like the flavor and lore heavy format. I like crunch too, but we've had quite a bit of that recently.

Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books, they would go out of business, and bye bye D&D.

My friends and I have been running a Forgotten Realms campaign for almost 20 years. When 2nd edition ended, our characters were all above level 20, so we couldnt play them when 3rd edition was first released.

WoTC released the Epic Level handbook, and it allowed us to go back to our favorite characters. But now, we have burned through all the of the content the Epic level handbook provides, and there is very little epic-level material published by WoTC. I was really hoping that the Power of Faerun book would have plenty of crunchy material for Epic level campaigns. I would honestly pay twice the cover-price for this book, if it contained epic level feats, prestige classes, monsters, magic items, etc.

I own all the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms books. There is plenty of "fluff" material for running any kind of Forgotten Realms campaign, or epic Forgotten Realms campaign in those books. What we need is more material to expand on the Epic level handbook. We need more epic crunchy stuff!
BobROE
03-06-06, 05:28 PM We need more epic crunchy stuff!

But the sales of the Epic Level Handbook may not make WotC think that more EL stuff would sell (I know I wouldn't buy it).
Zevox
03-06-06, 06:26 PM Considering the way 3.Xe books are, I'd say you're guaranteed plenty. Frankly, at this point I'd call a lorebook without this "crunchy" stuff a Godsend - I don't even have many sourcebooks, but of those I do only the FRCS, LEoF, and F&P have anywhere near a sufficient amount of lore for my liking. The number of spells, feats, PrCs, variants rules, etc that gets crammed into these books is simply shocking.

Zevox
EytanBernstein
03-06-06, 06:56 PM I know I mentioned this in answer to Gremarch's post about some epic material, but I'm sure that this book will have at least some material of worth. As said before though, Dragons of Faerun, coming out in the summer, is more likely to have some epic crunch simply because it deals with dragons who by their very nature, frequently going into epic CRs.

Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books, they would go out of business, and bye bye D&D.

My friends and I have been running a Forgotten Realms campaign for almost 20 years. When 2nd edition ended, our characters were all above level 20, so we couldnt play them when 3rd edition was first released.

WoTC released the Epic Level handbook, and it allowed us to go back to our favorite characters. But now, we have burned through all the of the content the Epic level handbook provides, and there is very little epic-level material published by WoTC. I was really hoping that the Power of Faerun book would have plenty of crunchy material for Epic level campaigns. I would honestly pay twice the cover-price for this book, if it contained epic level feats, prestige classes, monsters, magic items, etc.

I own all the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms books. There is plenty of "fluff" material for running any kind of Forgotten Realms campaign, or epic Forgotten Realms campaign in those books. What we need is more material to expand on the Epic level handbook. We need more epic crunchy stuff!
Evergreen_Aldaron
03-06-06, 08:17 PM Epic level material is nice, but the epic levels are also a great place to flex your creative muscles. If you have characters that you have played all the way to epic level, then you should have plenty of knowledge and experience to draw from and create some exciting material on your own. I am sure that Power of Faerun will have excellent background, stories, and information; but the real draw of being a very powerful character is your ability to change the course of your campaign itself. You can develop feats, prestige classes, and abilities to suit your campaign which makes sense with your past experiences.
That is what makes D&D so great - there are guidelines, but in the end...it is your campaign!
:)

Okay....now where did I leave that darn Holy Devestator.....?
;)
Faraer
03-07-06, 01:54 AM Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books, they would go out of business, and bye bye D&D.Even WotC has given up this simplistic notion. Lore-heavy Realms sourcebooks have been among TSR's best sellers.We need more epic crunchy stuff!Are you after rules for their own sake, or are there specific gaps in the rules you want to see filled?
Link182
03-07-06, 02:17 AM I'm running a campaign of 22nd level PCs. I'm dying for more Epic material and I'd kill to see the Epic spell DCs revamped. Can't wait for Powers of Faerun, these guys need to start acting like epic PCs!
Ranger REG
03-07-06, 02:39 AM Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books.
I'm not asking for an all-fluff book, nor do I want an all-crunch book. From my POV, there are too much crunch for one to keep track of. We need a healthy balance between the two. I was hoping that the book would teach my players how to conduct themselves before a court or a meeting, instead of "Yo Kingy! Wassuuuuup!"
ClobberinTime
03-07-06, 04:16 PM Well I'm assuming since Most of you caught the preview of the 1300+ hp, cr-40, interplanar Red that people are realizing there will be at least some crunch.

Personally I like both, it doesn't matter to me if they end up together in the same book or not, and for the most part for me it just depends on the topic.

However in the case of Power of Faerun, I am totally leaning towards crunch.. Here is why: To my knowledge there has never been a non-third party book with Crunch on this subject, i.e. the number crunching behind raising an army, determining loyalty, using diplomacy and charisma to raise an army, feeding an army, the nuts and bolts of running a kingdom, etc... All of these things have been left in the roleplaying arena, and for me at least since I am neither a Sociologist, nor an Industrial Psychologist it has always been hard to get my head around.....

i.e. I always felt that as DM or PC that what would end up happening in these situations was both arbitrary and a Deus Ex Machina... I am much more comfortable in the end with Set a DC and role some dice.

So in this sense I am on this particular topic looking forward to some serious crunch. Also it should be noted that as far as 'roleplaying' information in the same Genre, that there is already just a ton of information in all of the regional sourcebooks, i.e. If I want to bring life to Halruaa, there are already multiple descriptions of personalities that I can use for Role Play in that regional source book. And that the levels of the NPCs in this case just don't matter. On the other hand take Shade Enclave, we know an awfull lot about their motivations and goals, what we don't know alot about is why would a 35th level Netherese arcanist coming back to Faerun collectively make the chosen say "Gulp, uh oh, what the heck are we are we going to do to counter this mean old SOB' If it makes them scared it should make your PCs scared as well, but the way NPCs are statted out now for FR the only question PCs ask themselves when they look at their stats is: Hmmm Elminster is CR-29, that means that by 18th level I should be able to take him.

Since this book is inherently Faerun wide, I just don't see a role for lots of 'what does elminster eat for breakfast' kind of info, especially since the realms is already awash in this material.

Also some of us really dig Epic Level Material, and the Realms has always been Epic Level Friendly, however most of the NPCs we have seen statted have been done so at a much lower power level than their 1e and 2e incarnations where many of them were just described as 29th level plus because there wasn't really room in the collective imagination for statting out how powerfull some of the Iconic Characters really were. However now we have the Machinery to do so with the ELH, and so why not go for it.

Along the same lines I mean, do we really need to make the FR a world where someone actually believes that given how Kezref the Chaos Hound was statted out in CoR that he would have gotten anywhere close to Mask or Tyr. I mean this is like Michael Palin trying to convince John Cleese that the Parrot is still alive in the famous Monty Python Skit.

Anyways, can't wait for this one and am going to order it friday so I get it mailed as soon as it comes out.
Ranger REG
03-07-06, 08:57 PM Boy, I would hate it if WotC used this book as an experimental platform before redesigning the Epic-Level Handbook v3.5e.

:nonono:
Evergreen_Aldaron
03-07-06, 09:04 PM Now THAT would not be funny.....
:banghead:
ClobberinTime
03-07-06, 11:00 PM I think that this material is supplementary on an aspect of the game not covered much in the ELH, besides the ELH and 3.5 go together just great, I'd rather just have a web enhancement identifying the changes rather than having to buy a new book and then spend hours searching through it to see what was switched.

Oh wait we do have a 3.5 update to the ELH, its called the SRD, or at least I'm assuming its been updated since alot of the feats have been re-written and the 3.5 DRs have been added to the monsters.
Ranger REG
03-08-06, 12:34 AM Oh wait we do have a 3.5 update to the ELH, its called the SRD, or at least I'm assuming its been updated since alot of the feats have been re-written and the 3.5 DRs have been added to the monsters.
Well, you know what happens if you ... "assume."

:smirk:
ClobberinTime
03-08-06, 11:34 AM Its not 3.5????

Did you figure out which parts had been upgraded and which hadn't?
Ranger REG
03-08-06, 07:31 PM Its not 3.5????

Did you figure out which parts had been upgraded and which hadn't?
Only the epic-level material that are included in the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5e are updated into the SRD. The rest of the Epic-Level Handbook material may not be updated.
ClobberinTime
03-09-06, 12:17 PM When you looked at it which parts did you think were updated, thats what I was getting at?
Ranger REG
03-11-06, 02:21 AM When you looked at it which parts did you think were updated, thats what I was getting at?
Wish I could tell you. I'm waiting for WotC to release a Special Edition Printing of the DMG v3.5e, that comes out AFTER the leatherbound edition. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
greymarch 03-06-06, 02:48 PM	So, is there any crunchy stuff in the Power of Faerun book due next week? You know...feats, spells, monster stats, npc stats, prestige classes, etc? From the previews I have read so far, it sounds like the book is chalked full of roleplaying ideas and has very little, if any, crunchy stuff.
Dark Wizard 03-06-06, 02:52 PM	From what I gather on the Candlekeep forums, two PrCs, the Court Herald and the Merchant Prince. And about 5-6 feats, most having to do with religion. Maybe a handful of magic items. I think I heard Eric Boyd say all the crunch will be dispersed through the book rather than in a discrete section. I rather like the flavor and lore heavy format. I like crunch too, but we've had quite a bit of that recently.
greymarch 03-06-06, 05:00 PM	I rather like the flavor and lore heavy format. I like crunch too, but we've had quite a bit of that recently. Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books, they would go out of business, and bye bye D&D. My friends and I have been running a Forgotten Realms campaign for almost 20 years. When 2nd edition ended, our characters were all above level 20, so we couldnt play them when 3rd edition was first released. WoTC released the Epic Level handbook, and it allowed us to go back to our favorite characters. But now, we have burned through all the of the content the Epic level handbook provides, and there is very little epic-level material published by WoTC. I was really hoping that the Power of Faerun book would have plenty of crunchy material for Epic level campaigns. I would honestly pay twice the cover-price for this book, if it contained epic level feats, prestige classes, monsters, magic items, etc. I own all the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms books. There is plenty of "fluff" material for running any kind of Forgotten Realms campaign, or epic Forgotten Realms campaign in those books. What we need is more material to expand on the Epic level handbook. We need more epic crunchy stuff!
BobROE 03-06-06, 05:28 PM	We need more epic crunchy stuff! But the sales of the Epic Level Handbook may not make WotC think that more EL stuff would sell (I know I wouldn't buy it).
Zevox 03-06-06, 06:26 PM	Considering the way 3.Xe books are, I'd say you're guaranteed plenty. Frankly, at this point I'd call a lorebook without this "crunchy" stuff a Godsend - I don't even have many sourcebooks, but of those I do only the FRCS, LEoF, and F&P have anywhere near a sufficient amount of lore for my liking. The number of spells, feats, PrCs, variants rules, etc that gets crammed into these books is simply shocking. Zevox
EytanBernstein 03-06-06, 06:56 PM	I know I mentioned this in answer to Gremarch's post about some epic material, but I'm sure that this book will have at least some material of worth. As said before though, Dragons of Faerun, coming out in the summer, is more likely to have some epic crunch simply because it deals with dragons who by their very nature, frequently going into epic CRs. Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books, they would go out of business, and bye bye D&D. My friends and I have been running a Forgotten Realms campaign for almost 20 years. When 2nd edition ended, our characters were all above level 20, so we couldnt play them when 3rd edition was first released. WoTC released the Epic Level handbook, and it allowed us to go back to our favorite characters. But now, we have burned through all the of the content the Epic level handbook provides, and there is very little epic-level material published by WoTC. I was really hoping that the Power of Faerun book would have plenty of crunchy material for Epic level campaigns. I would honestly pay twice the cover-price for this book, if it contained epic level feats, prestige classes, monsters, magic items, etc. I own all the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms books. There is plenty of "fluff" material for running any kind of Forgotten Realms campaign, or epic Forgotten Realms campaign in those books. What we need is more material to expand on the Epic level handbook. We need more epic crunchy stuff!
Evergreen_Aldaron 03-06-06, 08:17 PM	Epic level material is nice, but the epic levels are also a great place to flex your creative muscles. If you have characters that you have played all the way to epic level, then you should have plenty of knowledge and experience to draw from and create some exciting material on your own. I am sure that Power of Faerun will have excellent background, stories, and information; but the real draw of being a very powerful character is your ability to change the course of your campaign itself. You can develop feats, prestige classes, and abilities to suit your campaign which makes sense with your past experiences. That is what makes D&D so great - there are guidelines, but in the end...it is your campaign! :) Okay....now where did I leave that darn Holy Devestator.....? ;)
Faraer 03-07-06, 01:54 AM	Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books, they would go out of business, and bye bye D&D.Even WotC has given up this simplistic notion. Lore-heavy Realms sourcebooks have been among TSR's best sellers.We need more epic crunchy stuff!Are you after rules for their own sake, or are there specific gaps in the rules you want to see filled?
Link182 03-07-06, 02:17 AM	I'm running a campaign of 22nd level PCs. I'm dying for more Epic material and I'd kill to see the Epic spell DCs revamped. Can't wait for Powers of Faerun, these guys need to start acting like epic PCs!
Ranger REG 03-07-06, 02:39 AM	Crunch sells, that's why you have seen so much of it. If WoTC changed course, and started printing fluff books. I'm not asking for an all-fluff book, nor do I want an all-crunch book. From my POV, there are too much crunch for one to keep track of. We need a healthy balance between the two. I was hoping that the book would teach my players how to conduct themselves before a court or a meeting, instead of "Yo Kingy! Wassuuuuup!"
ClobberinTime 03-07-06, 04:16 PM	Well I'm assuming since Most of you caught the preview of the 1300+ hp, cr-40, interplanar Red that people are realizing there will be at least some crunch. Personally I like both, it doesn't matter to me if they end up together in the same book or not, and for the most part for me it just depends on the topic. However in the case of Power of Faerun, I am totally leaning towards crunch.. Here is why: To my knowledge there has never been a non-third party book with Crunch on this subject, i.e. the number crunching behind raising an army, determining loyalty, using diplomacy and charisma to raise an army, feeding an army, the nuts and bolts of running a kingdom, etc... All of these things have been left in the roleplaying arena, and for me at least since I am neither a Sociologist, nor an Industrial Psychologist it has always been hard to get my head around..... i.e. I always felt that as DM or PC that what would end up happening in these situations was both arbitrary and a Deus Ex Machina... I am much more comfortable in the end with Set a DC and role some dice. So in this sense I am on this particular topic looking forward to some serious crunch. Also it should be noted that as far as 'roleplaying' information in the same Genre, that there is already just a ton of information in all of the regional sourcebooks, i.e. If I want to bring life to Halruaa, there are already multiple descriptions of personalities that I can use for Role Play in that regional source book. And that the levels of the NPCs in this case just don't matter. On the other hand take Shade Enclave, we know an awfull lot about their motivations and goals, what we don't know alot about is why would a 35th level Netherese arcanist coming back to Faerun collectively make the chosen say "Gulp, uh oh, what the heck are we are we going to do to counter this mean old SOB' If it makes them scared it should make your PCs scared as well, but the way NPCs are statted out now for FR the only question PCs ask themselves when they look at their stats is: Hmmm Elminster is CR-29, that means that by 18th level I should be able to take him. Since this book is inherently Faerun wide, I just don't see a role for lots of 'what does elminster eat for breakfast' kind of info, especially since the realms is already awash in this material. Also some of us really dig Epic Level Material, and the Realms has always been Epic Level Friendly, however most of the NPCs we have seen statted have been done so at a much lower power level than their 1e and 2e incarnations where many of them were just described as 29th level plus because there wasn't really room in the collective imagination for statting out how powerfull some of the Iconic Characters really were. However now we have the Machinery to do so with the ELH, and so why not go for it. Along the same lines I mean, do we really need to make the FR a world where someone actually believes that given how Kezref the Chaos Hound was statted out in CoR that he would have gotten anywhere close to Mask or Tyr. I mean this is like Michael Palin trying to convince John Cleese that the Parrot is still alive in the famous Monty Python Skit. Anyways, can't wait for this one and am going to order it friday so I get it mailed as soon as it comes out.
Ranger REG 03-07-06, 08:57 PM	Boy, I would hate it if WotC used this book as an experimental platform before redesigning the Epic-Level Handbook v3.5e. :nonono:
Evergreen_Aldaron 03-07-06, 09:04 PM	Now THAT would not be funny..... :banghead:
ClobberinTime 03-07-06, 11:00 PM	I think that this material is supplementary on an aspect of the game not covered much in the ELH, besides the ELH and 3.5 go together just great, I'd rather just have a web enhancement identifying the changes rather than having to buy a new book and then spend hours searching through it to see what was switched. Oh wait we do have a 3.5 update to the ELH, its called the SRD, or at least I'm assuming its been updated since alot of the feats have been re-written and the 3.5 DRs have been added to the monsters.
Ranger REG 03-08-06, 12:34 AM	Oh wait we do have a 3.5 update to the ELH, its called the SRD, or at least I'm assuming its been updated since alot of the feats have been re-written and the 3.5 DRs have been added to the monsters. Well, you know what happens if you ... "assume." :smirk:
ClobberinTime 03-08-06, 11:34 AM	Its not 3.5???? Did you figure out which parts had been upgraded and which hadn't?
Ranger REG 03-08-06, 07:31 PM	Its not 3.5???? Did you figure out which parts had been upgraded and which hadn't? Only the epic-level material that are included in the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5e are updated into the SRD. The rest of the Epic-Level Handbook material may not be updated.
ClobberinTime 03-09-06, 12:17 PM	When you looked at it which parts did you think were updated, thats what I was getting at?
Ranger REG 03-11-06, 02:21 AM	When you looked at it which parts did you think were updated, thats what I was getting at? Wish I could tell you. I'm waiting for WotC to release a Special Edition Printing of the DMG v3.5e, that comes out AFTER the leatherbound edition. :D