Dambrathian Timeline -- Inconsistent? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dambrathian Timeline -- Inconsistent? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Erazmus
02-10-04, 04:23 PM Okay, I am gathering all the information for events in Dambrath's history to make a consistent timeline. But it seems I've come to an impasse. Really there are very few sources of information on Dambrath, and those sources aren't great with references to times and dates. The references I've used are:

The Shining South Accessory (1993)

and

Elaine Cunningham's "History of the Crinti"

I purchased The Shining South from Wizard of the Coast's website via download (PDF File).

Anyway, I am mainly looking for year references (Dale Reckoning) that are accurate with the major events that happened over the course of Dambrath's History. I'll describe the inconsistencies I've found below, but first I'd like to lead you through the timeline that I've discovered based on the dates available in the two sources.

802
(This year coincides with both sources)
(The Shining South says Cathyr ruled for 205 years)

Reinhar IX "the Foolish" reigns in Dambrath.

Reinhar IX marches into Gnollwatch and encounters T'lindhet, a
drow city. Reinhar attacks and is deafeated.

Reinhar encounters a band of pilgrims of Loviatar. He forms an
aliance with Cathyr, the leader of the pilgrims. A cleric was
placed in each military unit. Once the drow attacked, Cathyr
turned on the Arkaiun and slayed Reinhar IX.

Cathyr struck a deal with the drow of T'lindhet. The half-elven
clerics of Loviatar would rule the land but they would supply
the drow with access to the surface and trade that would
include weapons and slaves. The drow agreed.

Cathyr becomes the first Queen of Dambrath and rules for 205
years.

1007 = (205 years later)

Cathyr is killed by her daughter, Filina.

Filina becomes queen. (Shining South states Filina was Queen for 5 years)

1012 = (Five Years Later)

Filina is killed by her daughter, Cathakay.

Cathakay becomes Queen of Dambrath. (Shining South states Cathakay was Queen for 54 years)

1066 = (54 Years Later)

Cathakay dies in battle against a gold dragon.

Cathakay's niece Melanith becomes Queen of Dambrath. (Shining South states Melanith was Queen for 156 years)

1222 = (156 Years Later)

Melanith's rule ends.

Melanith's daughter, Ausitil becomes queen. (Shining South states Ausitil was Queen for 125 years)

Ausitil's rule ends.

1347 = (125 Years Later)
(The Shining South then goes on to say that "The current queen of Dambrath, Venandra... has been ruling for 71 years.")

1418 = (71 Years Later)

Okay, so far, seems kind of reasonable. Let me know if any of the above math is wrong...I really hope not! :eek:

Now, the next source (by Elaine Cunningham), states that the Current Year is 1372 and Hasafir is Queen and she also says that Venandra had ruled for almost 80 years. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Now I'm really lost. This throws everything above out the door. I mean, if Venandra became queen in 1347 and ruled for 71 or 80 years, there is no way that Hasafir could become queen in 1372,. At the soonest she'd have to wait till 1418. Now, aside from the yearly matters, all the events match up very nicely between the two sources. But I am really, really, really concerned about the dates of these events as I am using this information and adding new things into some campaign story lines. Now, I can only think of a few explanations for the above inconsistencies.

A) The scanning and OCR used for the PDF is wacky and the years shown on the PDF are not correct.

B) Elaine Cunningham changed some of the history and dates.

One thing I ask, is if someone has a more elaborate timeline, in-depth knowledge on this matter, or has an original copy of "The Shining South" and not the digital PDF copy, could you check to see what the years are in your copy (or timeline)?

If it is true that Elaine changed a few years and some of the history, I have absolutely no problem with that. But if that is the case, I would hope there would be a new reference to the dates that were changed.

Any help here is appreciated. Any help at all.
Kuje31
02-10-04, 04:53 PM Originally posted by Erazmus
The Shining South Accessory (1993)

and

Elaine Cunningham's "History of the Crinti"

A) The scanning and OCR used for the PDF is wacky and the years shown on the PDF are not correct.

B) Elaine Cunningham changed some of the history and dates.

One thing I ask, is if someone has a more elaborate timeline, in-depth knowledge on this matter, or has an original copy of "The Shining South" and not the digital PDF copy, could you check to see what the years are in your copy (or timeline)?

What is the History of the Crinti?

And if it came out after Shining South then that it is the most correct version. So going by that, I would say Elaine probably changed the dates since, again newer source material changes old source material.....

I'll look at my copy of the Shining South after dinner though and edit this reply or add more, but can you post where you found that History of the Crinti thing?
Erazmus
02-10-04, 04:58 PM Sure, I originally read it on the Wizards of the Coast website. I have yet since to find it again on the site. But, Candlekeep.com has it archived on their site. I'll post the link below.

http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/crinti.htm

Thanks for the quick response. If the numbers are the same in your copy of The Shining South and Elaine did change the dates, then I hope there is going to be a new version of The Shining South with a new timeline. I look forward for your reply.
Wooly Rupert
02-10-04, 05:18 PM If, in the current year, she's been ruling for 71 years, that means she took the throne in 1301. So at most, we have a discrepancy of 46 years... The numbers do appear to match the original text, so I'd simply assume that no one ever did the math, or, if they did, they started at the wrong point. I'd shorten the rule of the previous monarch to balance it out.

Another possibility: it says Yenandra has been ruling for 71 years. But that could be read to mean that she's been in a position of leadership for 71 years, and not on the throne for that whole time. I realize that that is reaching, but it's a possibility.
Kuje31
02-10-04, 06:07 PM I'd ignore what Elaine wrote because Faiths & Avatars also says Yenandra is the high priestess and ruler of Dambrath......

It's Yenandra not Venandra btw. :)

But your math is right as far as I can see......
Erazmus
02-10-04, 06:35 PM This seems to be a 2nd Edition versus a 3rd Edition discrepancy, as I think Elaine wrote "The History of the Crinti" after 3rd Edition was released. I believe Faiths and Avatars is 2nd Edition too if memory serves. Would it be possible to post what Faiths and Avatars says about Yenandra, if it's not too lengthy that is?

And I agree, Shining South calls he Yenandra but Elaine called her Venandra. I was unsure how many people have read Shining South, so to keep from confusion I just referred to her as Venandra. :)

It is difficult to not use what Elaine wrote because I want to incorporate all the lore that I can on the region. I can't deny the fact that time has lapsed and changes have happened. Do you guys happen to know what the current year is in Toril as of the most recent books / lore? It was 1372 as far as the Shining South is concerned, but I think I remember seeing 1377 somewhere.

Anyways, thanks a bunch for the help guys!
Kuje31
02-11-04, 01:48 AM Originally posted by Erazmus
This seems to be a 2nd Edition versus a 3rd Edition discrepancy, as I think Elaine wrote "The History of the Crinti" after 3rd Edition was released. I believe Faiths and Avatars is 2nd Edition too if memory serves. Would it be possible to post what Faiths and Avatars says about Yenandra, if it's not too lengthy that is?

And I agree, Shining South calls he Yenandra but Elaine called her Venandra. I was unsure how many people have read Shining South, so to keep from confusion I just referred to her as Venandra. :)

It is difficult to not use what Elaine wrote because I want to incorporate all the lore that I can on the region. I can't deny the fact that time has lapsed and changes have happened. Do you guys happen to know what the current year is in Toril as of the most recent books / lore? It was 1372 as far as the Shining South is concerned, but I think I remember seeing 1377 somewhere.

Anyways, thanks a bunch for the help guys!

It's officially 1373 and I posted the info about her that's in Faiths & Avatars and F&A also calls her Yenandra. It's only that one sentence that says she is the high priestess and the ruler. Since you are right the dates don't match up and even in F&A which took place some time after ToT's it still doesn't match up. I would say F&A takes place around 1369 because Xvim is a deity and he didn't become one until that year according to the FRCS.....

I don't know but I would still use the 2e material but that's me......
Harlamond
02-11-04, 03:10 AM Here’s some info on Dambrath (http://www.sorcerers.net/Fan_Worlds/FR/7.htm).

Hope it helps.
Erazmus
02-11-04, 11:20 AM Originally posted by Harlamond
Here’s some info on Dambrath (http://www.sorcerers.net/Fan_Worlds/FR/7.htm).

Hope it helps.

Harlamond,

Thanks for the link. The information there is pretty much a summary of the information from "The Shining South." I am just so glad to find that I wasn't making a mistake on the information I gathered. I'm hoping some other books or accessory material will be published on the Dambrath region. So far, the closest they've come to it is the Counselors & Kings trilogy by Elaine Cunningham. But that takes place more in the Halruaa region of the south. I guess there just isn't the interest factor in that region of Faerun for them to delve into its lore. If they wanted to stir interest in that area, they could always write some books on T'lendhet first. I mean, drow books tend to sell well. *sigh*. Oh well, one can only hope they'll do something with it, that's too much real estate to ignore.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Erazmus 02-10-04, 04:23 PM	Okay, I am gathering all the information for events in Dambrath's history to make a consistent timeline. But it seems I've come to an impasse. Really there are very few sources of information on Dambrath, and those sources aren't great with references to times and dates. The references I've used are: The Shining South Accessory (1993) and Elaine Cunningham's "History of the Crinti" I purchased The Shining South from Wizard of the Coast's website via download (PDF File). Anyway, I am mainly looking for year references (Dale Reckoning) that are accurate with the major events that happened over the course of Dambrath's History. I'll describe the inconsistencies I've found below, but first I'd like to lead you through the timeline that I've discovered based on the dates available in the two sources. 802 (This year coincides with both sources) (The Shining South says Cathyr ruled for 205 years) Reinhar IX "the Foolish" reigns in Dambrath. Reinhar IX marches into Gnollwatch and encounters T'lindhet, a drow city. Reinhar attacks and is deafeated. Reinhar encounters a band of pilgrims of Loviatar. He forms an aliance with Cathyr, the leader of the pilgrims. A cleric was placed in each military unit. Once the drow attacked, Cathyr turned on the Arkaiun and slayed Reinhar IX. Cathyr struck a deal with the drow of T'lindhet. The half-elven clerics of Loviatar would rule the land but they would supply the drow with access to the surface and trade that would include weapons and slaves. The drow agreed. Cathyr becomes the first Queen of Dambrath and rules for 205 years. 1007 = (205 years later) Cathyr is killed by her daughter, Filina. Filina becomes queen. (Shining South states Filina was Queen for 5 years) 1012 = (Five Years Later) Filina is killed by her daughter, Cathakay. Cathakay becomes Queen of Dambrath. (Shining South states Cathakay was Queen for 54 years) 1066 = (54 Years Later) Cathakay dies in battle against a gold dragon. Cathakay's niece Melanith becomes Queen of Dambrath. (Shining South states Melanith was Queen for 156 years) 1222 = (156 Years Later) Melanith's rule ends. Melanith's daughter, Ausitil becomes queen. (Shining South states Ausitil was Queen for 125 years) Ausitil's rule ends. 1347 = (125 Years Later) (The Shining South then goes on to say that "The current queen of Dambrath, Venandra... has been ruling for 71 years.") 1418 = (71 Years Later) Okay, so far, seems kind of reasonable. Let me know if any of the above math is wrong...I really hope not! :eek: Now, the next source (by Elaine Cunningham), states that the Current Year is 1372 and Hasafir is Queen and she also says that Venandra had ruled for almost 80 years. :confused: :confused: :confused: Now I'm really lost. This throws everything above out the door. I mean, if Venandra became queen in 1347 and ruled for 71 or 80 years, there is no way that Hasafir could become queen in 1372,. At the soonest she'd have to wait till 1418. Now, aside from the yearly matters, all the events match up very nicely between the two sources. But I am really, really, really concerned about the dates of these events as I am using this information and adding new things into some campaign story lines. Now, I can only think of a few explanations for the above inconsistencies. A) The scanning and OCR used for the PDF is wacky and the years shown on the PDF are not correct. B) Elaine Cunningham changed some of the history and dates. One thing I ask, is if someone has a more elaborate timeline, in-depth knowledge on this matter, or has an original copy of "The Shining South" and not the digital PDF copy, could you check to see what the years are in your copy (or timeline)? If it is true that Elaine changed a few years and some of the history, I have absolutely no problem with that. But if that is the case, I would hope there would be a new reference to the dates that were changed. Any help here is appreciated. Any help at all.
Kuje31 02-10-04, 04:53 PM	Originally posted by Erazmus The Shining South Accessory (1993) and Elaine Cunningham's "History of the Crinti" A) The scanning and OCR used for the PDF is wacky and the years shown on the PDF are not correct. B) Elaine Cunningham changed some of the history and dates. One thing I ask, is if someone has a more elaborate timeline, in-depth knowledge on this matter, or has an original copy of "The Shining South" and not the digital PDF copy, could you check to see what the years are in your copy (or timeline)? What is the History of the Crinti? And if it came out after Shining South then that it is the most correct version. So going by that, I would say Elaine probably changed the dates since, again newer source material changes old source material..... I'll look at my copy of the Shining South after dinner though and edit this reply or add more, but can you post where you found that History of the Crinti thing?
Erazmus 02-10-04, 04:58 PM	Sure, I originally read it on the Wizards of the Coast website. I have yet since to find it again on the site. But, Candlekeep.com has it archived on their site. I'll post the link below. http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/crinti.htm Thanks for the quick response. If the numbers are the same in your copy of The Shining South and Elaine did change the dates, then I hope there is going to be a new version of The Shining South with a new timeline. I look forward for your reply.
Wooly Rupert 02-10-04, 05:18 PM	If, in the current year, she's been ruling for 71 years, that means she took the throne in 1301. So at most, we have a discrepancy of 46 years... The numbers do appear to match the original text, so I'd simply assume that no one ever did the math, or, if they did, they started at the wrong point. I'd shorten the rule of the previous monarch to balance it out. Another possibility: it says Yenandra has been ruling for 71 years. But that could be read to mean that she's been in a position of leadership for 71 years, and not on the throne for that whole time. I realize that that is reaching, but it's a possibility.
Kuje31 02-10-04, 06:07 PM	I'd ignore what Elaine wrote because Faiths & Avatars also says Yenandra is the high priestess and ruler of Dambrath...... It's Yenandra not Venandra btw. :) But your math is right as far as I can see......
Erazmus 02-10-04, 06:35 PM	This seems to be a 2nd Edition versus a 3rd Edition discrepancy, as I think Elaine wrote "The History of the Crinti" after 3rd Edition was released. I believe Faiths and Avatars is 2nd Edition too if memory serves. Would it be possible to post what Faiths and Avatars says about Yenandra, if it's not too lengthy that is? And I agree, Shining South calls he Yenandra but Elaine called her Venandra. I was unsure how many people have read Shining South, so to keep from confusion I just referred to her as Venandra. :) It is difficult to not use what Elaine wrote because I want to incorporate all the lore that I can on the region. I can't deny the fact that time has lapsed and changes have happened. Do you guys happen to know what the current year is in Toril as of the most recent books / lore? It was 1372 as far as the Shining South is concerned, but I think I remember seeing 1377 somewhere. Anyways, thanks a bunch for the help guys!
Kuje31 02-11-04, 01:48 AM	Originally posted by Erazmus This seems to be a 2nd Edition versus a 3rd Edition discrepancy, as I think Elaine wrote "The History of the Crinti" after 3rd Edition was released. I believe Faiths and Avatars is 2nd Edition too if memory serves. Would it be possible to post what Faiths and Avatars says about Yenandra, if it's not too lengthy that is? And I agree, Shining South calls he Yenandra but Elaine called her Venandra. I was unsure how many people have read Shining South, so to keep from confusion I just referred to her as Venandra. :) It is difficult to not use what Elaine wrote because I want to incorporate all the lore that I can on the region. I can't deny the fact that time has lapsed and changes have happened. Do you guys happen to know what the current year is in Toril as of the most recent books / lore? It was 1372 as far as the Shining South is concerned, but I think I remember seeing 1377 somewhere. Anyways, thanks a bunch for the help guys! It's officially 1373 and I posted the info about her that's in Faiths & Avatars and F&A also calls her Yenandra. It's only that one sentence that says she is the high priestess and the ruler. Since you are right the dates don't match up and even in F&A which took place some time after ToT's it still doesn't match up. I would say F&A takes place around 1369 because Xvim is a deity and he didn't become one until that year according to the FRCS..... I don't know but I would still use the 2e material but that's me......
Harlamond 02-11-04, 03:10 AM	Here’s some info on Dambrath (http://www.sorcerers.net/Fan_Worlds/FR/7.htm). Hope it helps.
Erazmus 02-11-04, 11:20 AM	Originally posted by Harlamond Here’s some info on Dambrath (http://www.sorcerers.net/Fan_Worlds/FR/7.htm). Hope it helps. Harlamond, Thanks for the link. The information there is pretty much a summary of the information from "The Shining South." I am just so glad to find that I wasn't making a mistake on the information I gathered. I'm hoping some other books or accessory material will be published on the Dambrath region. So far, the closest they've come to it is the Counselors & Kings trilogy by Elaine Cunningham. But that takes place more in the Halruaa region of the south. I guess there just isn't the interest factor in that region of Faerun for them to delve into its lore. If they wanted to stir interest in that area, they could always write some books on T'lendhet first. I mean, drow books tend to sell well. sigh. Oh well, one can only hope they'll do something with it, that's too much real estate to ignore.