| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Reneshat12-11-07, 08:09 AM | Has this ever happened to anyone else? You have a favorite peice of Realms Lore that is also in a novel that you have never read. Then when you finally get around to reading the novel, not only does it not go down in any way shape or form like you had invisioned it, but the writer is mediocre, and the entire ordeal is the novelization of one of your favorite moments is very dissapointing and tedious? Here I am, once again, just finished with a Realms novel that I chose to read because it covered one of my favorite parts of Lore, and now I wish I never picked it up. I pretty much just want to know if this happens to anyone else, or if I'm the odd one out here. |
| Kenzuki12-11-07, 08:26 AM | Thinking of the Baldur's Gate series here... Could have been great but they bastardized much of it. Actually let me explain why. I'll review "Throne of Bhaal" for you now. This novel is the third in a trilogy based (loosely some say!) on the Balder's Gate computer games. The plot is: the god Bhaal, of the Forgotten Realms D&D game setting, the deity of murder, spawned hundreds of children of various species (polymorphing himself as necessary) before he was killed; a decade on, they are now adults and adolescents and his former high priestess, the Chosen of Bhaal, has gathered together five of the most powerful "Bhaalspawn" ("the Five") in a plot to slaughter all of the others, releasing what fragments of "the essence of Bhaal" were contained within them. The Chosen's goal is the rebirth of Bhaal from the re-asssembled bits o' Bhaal. The goal of the Five is to suck up Bhaal essence from their half-sibs and become super-villains. The novel opens with Bhaalspawn Abdel Adrian, around whom the trilogy revolves, travelling through a forest with his half-sister (from whom he sucked out the Bhaal juice in one of the earlier books) and his lover WHO IS A BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF. We know that she is a HALF-ELF and BEAUTIFUL because author Karpyshyn *tells us* that she is -- often. Abdel Adrian is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR; we know this because author Karpyshyn tells us that he is every second page or so. He is also INVULNERABLE TO MELEE ATTACKS; we know this because Karpyshyn tells us ... constantly, apparently believing that anyone who would read this book must be doing so only because it is named after a video game and must therefore suffer from such severe Attention Defecit Disorder that if something is not repeated at least twice in every three pages the reader will forget it. Did I mention that Abdel Is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR? Because he is. And his girlfriend is a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF. Who loves him despite his being a Bhaalspawn and prone to suddenly turning into a four-armed bug which is twelve feet tall and prone to quoting Kafka. The bug, called The Ravager, is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR and delights in slaughter, which is awkward for Abdel's half-sister and his girlfriend (who is a BEUTIFUL HALF-ELF, by the way). BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR Abdel, his half-sister and Abdel's BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF girlfriend are attacked by one of the Five, who is killed within four pages, so don't worry about her name. She uses rune-inscribed arrows to shoot Abdel's BIG, MUSCULAR, STRONG body, causing wounds which don't heal. This surprises him, because his body HEALS ITS OWN DAMAGE (we know this because Karpyshyn tells us at least four times in every single chapter). Surprised that the arrows prevent his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR BODY from HEALING ITS OWN DAMAGE, Abdel goes to some nether plane and there meets his dead half-brother -- another Bhaalspawn, whom he had killed in Book 1 or 2 -- and lets him have some Bhaal juice, which makes him come back to life. This half-brother, Sarevok, is an essential character because Abdel is as stupid as a brick and couldn't figure out that when you are in a nether plane in which *nothing* exists except for five doors hanging in mid-nothingness, the way to get home is to click your heels and say ... I mean, the way to get home is to OPEN A FRIGGIN' DOOR WHICH HAS YOUR HOME ON THE OTHER SIDE AND STEP THROUGH. Sarevok, who wears BLADED ARMOR -- which has BLADES on it, don't forget, because those BLADES will be important later on! -- tells his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR half-brother to open the door which has the big neon sign reading "THIS WAY TO THE FOREST WHERE YOUR HALF-SISTER AND BEUATIFUL HALF-ELF GIRLFRIEND ARE LOOKING FOR YOU," and there is the forest where his half-sister and BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF girlfriend are wondering where his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR BODY (which HEALS ITS OWN DAMAGE, remember) has got to! What a surprise! (Bet you didn't see *that one* coming from five pages earlier!) The four of them then go to Saradush, where lots of Bhaalspawn are gathered. Saradush is under siege, but they manage to walk through a sewer outflow and enter the city. The sewer is large enough for Sarevok, who wears BLADED ARMOR and Abdel, who is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR (and seven feet tall, by the way) to walk through with no problem. Twenty thousand besieging soldiers failed to notice this open grate in the wall at any time in the past six months, presumably because Karpyshyn didn't write up a neon sign for it, saying, "THIS WAY TO THE SECRET ENTRANCE!!! BHAALSPAWN! BHAALSPAWN! BHAALSPAWN!" Sarevok, in his BLADED ARMOR and Abdel, with his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR BODY, and their half-sister, and Abdel's girlfriend, the BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF, are immediately caputured by the defenders, who seem to have forgotten that there was an eight-foot wide hole in the city wall, and blah, blah, blah, they meet Melisaan, who was the one who gathered hundreds of Bhaalspawn here "for their own safety." (If you haven't already figured out who the Chosen of Bhaal is by this point in the novel, don't worry, you're no more stupid than the characters.) Abdel is sent out to fight the besieging general, who is EVEN MORE BIGGER AND STRONGERER AND MORE MUSCULARARERER THAN ABDEL and whose WOUNDS ALSO HEAL THEMSELVES. The latter surprises Abdel, who, being slightly more a dullard than George of the Jungle, was not quick to realize that a guy who is nine feet tall and EVEN MORE BIGGER AND STRONGERER AND MORE MUSCULARARERER THAN HE, and who goes half-naked into battle against a seven foot tall BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR BHAALSPAWN who can turn into A FOUR ARMED, 12-FOOT TALL BUG could *also* HEAL HIS OWN WOUNDS -- doh! (Don't forget that Abdel's girlfriend is a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF -- not that it matters much at this point.) Abdel wins. Did I mention that the enemy general, who was EVEN MORE BIGGER AND STRONGERER AND MORE MUSCULARARERER THAN ABDEL, had a rune-inscribed axe, too? This surprises Abdel. It surprises him so much that he leaves it lying on the ground and walks away from it despite the fact that many bad things still exist in the world and want to kill him and his half-sister and kill (re-kill?) his half-brother (who wears BLADED ARMOR, don't forget), and these rune-weapons are the only things which can wound BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR BHAALSPAWN who HEAL THEIR OWN WOUNDS. Then ... oh, God. Why bother telling more? There are dragons, who seem to exist only to be killed for experience points, being invulnerable before twenty thousand soldiers but dropping life gnats when fighting twelve-on-one against some schmuck in BLADED ARMOR who has no weapon but his BLADED ARMOR, and there are still more of the Five (three more, in fact!), and a mysterious monastery with a bad abbot and blah, blah, blah. This book reads like a first draft penned by a bright twelve-year-old -- someone who can put together a good story but who does not yet know how to write it well. When a writer with a good story and an execrable writing style submits material to a publisher, it is the responsibility of an editor to either fix the problems or else send the manuscript back to the author and tell him to rewrite it and keep rewriting until people like me won't be tempted to write reviews like this. Obviously no one at Wizards of the Coast bothered to do this. No *competent* editor would have allowed such sloppy, amateurish writing as this to hit the stands. Those who have played the game have complained here about the book failing to mention huge amounts of the material which is covered by the game. Had the book an editor who was even passably competent, at least one-eighth of it (which consisted of telling us that Abdel was BIG AND STRONG, etc., that his girlfriend was a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF, that his brother wore BLADED ARMORER, etc.) could have been cut and replaced with new information. That this was not done is entirely the fault of The slap-dash editorial policy of Wizards of the Coast, whose parent company, Hasbro, apparently thinks that, "If you publish it, they will buy it." Not this dreck! What is most galling about this lousy writing and editing is that there *is* an exciting, ripping yarn to be told about this chapter of Faerun's recent history. Except for Gregor Samsa -- er, Abdel Adrian --turning into a twelve foot bug just before the end, the last couple of chapters in this novel are very good (albeit somewhat flawed), and *I* honestly did not know who would win in the end. One character makes a surprising revelation which elicits a major shift in sympathy from one character to another and leaves Bhaal's plan to be reborn through his children in doubt -- up until the last couple of pages the outcome is uncertain, and not in a phoney, mock-suspense way, either -- there really is no certainty of who will win in the last two chapters. This uncertainty is dashed by the most obnoxious character in the entire book, an angel (for want of a term recognizable to non-gamers) who works for Ao, the Overpower, who gives marching orders to the gods. I know that this is what Ao does because I have read many other Forgotten Realms books. Karpyshan seems not to have known or cared who Ao is; he sticks this angel in the book *only* to pull off an _angelus_ _ex_ _machina_, thwarting the high level of suspense created just before the end and forcing it into the result that 99.99% of readers will have expected just from reading the blurb on the back cover. The angel (who wears a robe of black with a psychedelic star pattern, which I interpreted as indicating that this creature *was* Ao until events proved otherwise), constantly prattles about what is permitted and not permitted, and then proceeds to do what is not permitted. Ao, mind you, threw every god but one out of heaven because a few of them cheesed him off. We are to believe that he is going to let a mere angel disobey orders and alter the theological history of Faerun forever? I don't think so! A competent editor would have cut that thing from the book and told Karpyshyn to figure out some other way for Abdel to move around and know what he knows. This book did not have a competent editor. (About the protagonist's name: I don't know who is to be blamed for the name "Abdel Adrian," but as anyone who is even slightly familiar with Arabic, or who has ever read a baby name book -- or the AD&D book "Arabian Adventures"! -- knows, "abd-el" means "servant of" and is meaningless on its own; it must be followed by another word/name to show of whom the person so designated is the servant. In this series the central character's name literally translates as "servant of Adrian" -- as roughly *one billion people* could have told anyone at Wizards who cared enough to ask. Every time I came across his stupid "name" I kept wondering: "Who's Adrian?" Every page of this book burns with the result of such sloppy editing.) |
| Stigger12-11-07, 09:26 AM | Pretty much why I don't bother reading the novels Reneshat. |
| Lord Karsus12-11-07, 09:27 AM | Thinking of the Baldur's Gate series here... -Sounds...riveting. -But, as to the original question, no, this really hasn't happened to me. But, if I continue reading FR novels into 4e, I am sure it will. :( |
| selunatic239712-11-07, 09:49 AM | I quit reading the novels long ago...for pretty much the same reasons as mentioned above. Plus since they are all "CANON!!!!!!!!" thay always screw with how my gamers and me view our decidedly non-canon campaign. I only read the Blackstaff due to my friendly neighborhood gaming store owner Dan seriously recomending it. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-11-07, 10:08 AM | I'll have to go with the Baldur's Gate series as well. But I think in some ways it's unfair to call out Drew Karpyshen, the author of the third novel (who, by the way, worked on the BG2 and ToB games), as he had to work with the facts that were established in the first two novels by Phil Athans. The absolute worst book was the first one, based (*snort!*) on Baldur's Gate 1. |
| Alrunic Silverfyre12-11-07, 10:29 AM | Kenzuki, You are now funnier than Eddie Murphy. Regards, Silver |
| Lord Karsus12-11-07, 10:47 AM | Kenzuki, You are now funnier than Eddie Murphy. Regards, Silver -Is that a compliment, or an insult? :P |
| Fire_Wraith12-11-07, 11:52 AM | It's probably worth keeping in mind, though, that the Baldur's Gate trilogy is a video game adaptation novel, which puts it in a slightly different class than most of the 'standard' FR novels. That being said, all that's really missing here is Uwe Boll to turn it into an utterly horrible movie. :D |
| Redrake12-11-07, 12:50 PM | Stigger, are you the same guy who wrote the review on Amazon for the book? Because I do remember reading that review, especially due to that part with Half-Elf and Beautiful. If you are not, I think you just qualified as a good copy/paste user.:D Link (http://www.amazon.com/Baldurs-Gate-II-Throne-Forgotten/dp/078691985X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197395170&sr=1-2) |
| Alrunic Silverfyre12-11-07, 01:20 PM | Well in that case, allow me to amend my compliment. Kenzuki, You are a better copy/paster than Eddie Murphy. He always forgets the last two words. Regards, Silver |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-11-07, 01:33 PM | It's probably worth keeping in mind, though, that the Baldur's Gate trilogy is a video game adaptation novel, which puts it in a slightly different class than most of the 'standard' FR novels. Very true. I didn't expect the novels to fit in everything from the games (that'd be impossible in a total of about 900 pages), but I felt that Phil Athans, especially, didn't even get the theme of the story correct! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-11-07, 01:34 PM | Stigger, are you the same guy who wrote the review on Amazon for the book? Because I do remember reading that review, especially due to that part with Half-Elf and Beautiful. If you are not, I think you just qualified as a good copy/paste user.:D Link (http://www.amazon.com/Baldurs-Gate-II-Throne-Forgotten/dp/078691985X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197395170&sr=1-2) That's not Stigger.:) |
| Fire_Wraith12-11-07, 01:55 PM | Very true. I didn't expect the novels to fit in everything from the games (that'd be impossible in a total of about 900 pages), but I felt that Phil Athans, especially, didn't even get the theme of the story correct! My point was also that video game adaptation novels tend to be... well, how shall I put it... not exactly paragons of literary excellence. :P But hey, at least it's not as bad as someone making a movie about a video game, and not even getting the setting remotely right. (Let's see, the game is about a half-vampire that kills Nazis, so let's make sure there's no Nazis, and that it isn't set anywhere remotely near the WWII time period... :rolleyes: ) |
| Redrake12-11-07, 01:56 PM | In that case he just broke the 8th Google Commandment.:D http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/Scripture/10_Commandments.html Jokes aside, I do agree that Baldur's Gate books are atrocious. They made me very suspicious towards anything written by Philip Athans. |
| Lord Karsus12-11-07, 02:00 PM | -I hate Google. Yahoo, FTW! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-11-07, 04:10 PM | My point was also that video game adaptation novels tend to be... well, how shall I put it... not exactly paragons of literary excellence. :P There's truth to that, too...but if WotC is going to publish novels based on Realms video games, there's no good reason for them not to be at least as good as any other Realms book. |
| Stigger12-11-07, 04:40 PM | Nope, wasn't me, just some pretender to my greatness... whom I shall send trained flying monkeys to torture until he alters his avatar... or they get lost and come home, one of the two... |
| Redrake12-11-07, 05:32 PM | Then he must be the inventor of the time machine. He read what you just wrote here and went back 2 and a half years to write it at Amazon.:P |
| Lord Karsus12-11-07, 05:41 PM | -Chronomancy at it's best. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-11-07, 06:51 PM | That review was in Kenzuki's post, not Stigger's... |
| Stigger12-11-07, 07:18 PM | That review was in Kenzuki's post, not Stigger's... Which was why I said pretender to my greatness... ;) |
| Blibbering_Humdinger12-12-07, 01:08 AM | Thinking of the Baldur's Gate series here... HEY! *I* was gonna say that! :mad: Could have been great but they bastardized much of it. Actually let me explain why. I'll review "Throne of Bhaal" for you now. They made Jon Irenicus lame. Somehow, they made Irenicus lame. That's, like, all you need to know... The novel opens with Bhaalspawn Abdel Adrian *pained hiss* AHHHH, speak not the name, speak not the name! It burnssss our earses, gollum, burns, burns! *shelters head between knees in a fetal curl* around whom the trilogy revolves, travelling through a forest with his half-sister (from whom he sucked out the Bhaal juice in one of the earlier books) and his lover WHO IS A BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF. We know that she is a HALF-ELF and BEAUTIFUL because author Karpyshyn *tells us* that she is -- often. Abdel Adrian is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR; we know this because author Karpyshyn tells us that he is every second page or so. He is also INVULNERABLE TO MELEE ATTACKS; we know this because Karpyshyn tells us ... constantly, apparently believing that anyone who would read this book must be doing so only because it is named after a video game and must therefore suffer from such severe Attention Defecit Disorder that if something is not repeated at least twice in every three pages the reader will forget it. Did I mention that Abdel Is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR? Because he is. And his girlfriend is a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF. Who loves him despite his being a Bhaalspawn and prone to suddenly turning into a four-armed bug which is twelve feet tall and prone to quoting Kafka. The bug, called The Ravager, is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR and delights in slaughter, which is awkward for Abdel's half-sister and his girlfriend (who is a BEUTIFUL HALF-ELF, by the way). Ah! I've read this same review almost word-for-word on Amazon! Heck, maybe it IS word-for-word. There are certainly enough BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELVES and BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR fellows running around in there... BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR Abdel, his half-sister and Abdel's BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF girlfriend are attacked by one of the Five, who is killed within four pages, so don't worry about her name. Well, Illesara was killed within fifteen second when I faced her, so she's actually more prominent in the book. ^_^' This book reads like a first draft penned by a bright twelve-year-old -- someone who can put together a good story but who does not yet know how to write it well. When a writer with a good story and an execrable writing style submits material to a publisher, it is the responsibility of an editor to either fix the problems or else send the manuscript back to the author and tell him to rewrite it and keep rewriting until people like me won't be tempted to write reviews like this. Obviously no one at Wizards of the Coast bothered to do this. No *competent* editor would have allowed such sloppy, amateurish writing as this to hit the stands. Those who have played the game have complained here about the book failing to mention huge amounts of the material which is covered by the game. Had the book an editor who was even passably competent, at least one-eighth of it (which consisted of telling us that Abdel was BIG AND STRONG, etc., that his girlfriend was a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF, that his brother wore BLADED ARMORER, etc.) could have been cut and replaced with new information. That this was not done is entirely the fault of The slap-dash editorial policy of Wizards of the Coast, whose parent company, Hasbro, apparently thinks that, "If you publish it, they will buy it." Not this dreck! Someone obviously bought it to review it, granted, but those reviews stop others from buying it. Someone will buy it, they got that much right, but, um, someone forgot to teach their marketing crew that they need more than one customer to make a profit. ^_^ (About the protagonist's name: I don't know who is to be blamed for the name "Abdel Adrian," but as anyone who is even slightly familiar with Arabic, or who has ever read a baby name book -- or the AD&D book "Arabian Adventures"! -- knows, "abd-el" means "servant of" and is meaningless on its own; it must be followed by another word/name to show of whom the person so designated is the servant. In this series the central character's name literally translates as "servant of Adrian" -- as roughly *one billion people* could have told anyone at Wizards who cared enough to ask. Every time I came across his stupid "name" I kept wondering: "Who's Adrian?" Every page of this book burns with the result of such sloppy editing.) I think the name "Abdel" comes from Philip Athans's BG player character, but I'm not sure where I heard that, so I could be wrong. |
| Redrake12-12-07, 02:27 AM | That review was in Kenzuki's post, not Stigger's... Ah yes, now I see. The avatar confused me.:D |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-12-07, 10:44 AM | Well, Illesara was killed within fifteen second when I faced her, so she's actually more prominent in the book. ^_^' True--having her killed off very quickly at the beginning of the book is actually pretty accurate, since she also gets killed off at the very beginning of the game, as well. I think the name "Abdel" comes from Philip Athans's BG player character, but I'm not sure where I heard that, so I could be wrong. I'm not sure if Phil Athans has ever even played the BG series. I would not be surprised at all if he didn't. At least Drew Karpyshen worked on the game he wrote his book based off of. Regardless of the source of the name "Abdel Adrian", I have to agree that it's a pretty stupid name. Get this--it's supposed to be Netherese and translate to "son of the dark".:rolleyes: Really. |
| Redrake12-12-07, 02:24 PM | I think that Athans received certain guidelines from WotSC (or TSR) about the game. In the game the main character grew up in the library city of Candlekeep (kind of Cadderly). In the book however, the character is already an experienced barbarian with lots of battles in his past. The books are simply horrible. There's a lot of gore and senseless battles. And the thing I hate the most is that they are also considered canon while the games are not. All in all, the books were a really bad idea. It is understandable why the games were not considered canon, because there are plenty of canon NPC's that show up in those games. But the idea to write a book after a successful game was bad in this case. It is better to read the journal in the game (and more fun) than read the books. |
| Kenzuki12-12-07, 02:28 PM | Then he must be the inventor of the time machine. He read what you just wrote here and went back 2 and a half years to write it at Amazon.:P Yeah I was going to write my own judgement, but I remember that one from Amazon so I used it instead as it pretty much summed up all my thoughts. They could have been written MUCH much better. But so far the novels of the Realms I've liked so far are the following. The Avatar Series was pretty interesting. I've began collecting the Legend of Drizzt series and I've got the whole Dark Elf Trilogy and Icewind Dale Trilogy. I'm collecting all the new covered editions which is why I didn't go out and buy the old series. I'm open to others so if you know any good ones do tell. |
| Redrake12-12-07, 03:18 PM | Yeah I was going to write my own judgement, but I remember that one from Amazon so I used it instead as it pretty much summed up all my thoughts. Right. I am a lawyer. I heard that argument before.:P Try Starlight and Shadows of Elaine Cunningham. |
| Kenzuki12-12-07, 03:26 PM | Right. I am a lawyer. I heard that argument before.:P Try Starlight and Shadows of Elaine Cunningham. The evil dragon head gave you away:) |
| MagSgamE12-12-07, 11:52 PM | Thinking of the Baldur's Gate series here... No *competent* editor would have allowed such sloppy, amateurish writing as this to hit the stands. Every page of this book burns with the result of such sloppy editing.) You have obviously never read the MtG novels, which are even MORE AWESOME :eek: Khamal. who is well over 7 feet tall, and POWERFUL AND STRONG starts the book by climbing a unclimbable road and, with a flick of his foot, sending a dead mule flying a mile away, because he is so POWERFUL AND STRONG that he can do a regular coin toss and toss a coin through several walls, armors and shields like an arrow through ricepaper walls. And dont forget hes so strong he can choke giant monsters with his bare hands, and did i mention the villains in this book actually toss mountains at him? Check the Odyssey cycle novels for more awesome proof of the editorial/writting talents at WotC. Its just awesome! Is this kind of respect for the readers that pushed me away from any WotC novels altogether a few years ago, and why I dislike playing FR especifically, and any official setting in general. |
| Lord Karsus12-13-07, 12:03 AM | Is this kind of respect for the readers that pushed me away from any WotC novels altogether a few years ago, and why I dislike playing FR especifically, and any official setting in general. -How is novel editing reflective on the gaming setting? |
| MagSgamE12-13-07, 12:13 AM | Players grow used to expecting things to work that way "What do you mean my barbarian cant hold open the Gate spell?! it worked on the books!" "My drow can SO do that!" "My dwarf doesnt need no stinking magic to craft magical, returning hammers!" Plus, is plain out a slap on the face of the fans. Each book is of a higher degree, smoking QUALITY than the last. |
| Lord Karsus12-13-07, 12:18 AM | "What do you mean my barbarian cant hold open the Gate spell?! it worked on the books!" -According to the Gate spell on pg. XYZ of the PHB...Your Barbarian cannot do that. "My drow can SO do that!" -Well, it's not on your character sheet. Sorry. "My dwarf doesnt need no stinking magic to craft magical, returning hammers!" -Not according to pg. XYZ of the PHB...Once you hit XYZ level, you can take the feat Craft Magical Item. Until then... Plus, is plain out a slap on the face of the fans. -Not hardly. The ample amount of fans who continue to play in the Realms, and have begun since the release of said novel don't exactly agree. |
| GreenKnight12-13-07, 12:28 AM | Thinking of the Baldur's Gate series here... Could have been great but they bastardized much of it. Actually let me explain why. I'll review "Throne of Bhaal" for you now. This novel is the third in a trilogy based (loosely some say!) on the Balder's Gate computer games. The plot is: the god Bhaal, of the Forgotten Realms D&D game setting, the deity of murder, spawned hundreds of children of various species (polymorphing himself as necessary) before he was killed; a decade on, they are now adults and adolescents and his former high priestess, the Chosen of Bhaal, has gathered together five of the most powerful "Bhaalspawn" ("the Five") in a plot to slaughter all of the others, releasing what fragments of "the essence of Bhaal" were contained within them. The Chosen's goal is the rebirth of Bhaal from the re-asssembled bits o' Bhaal. The goal of the Five is to suck up Bhaal essence from their half-sibs and become super-villains. The novel opens with Bhaalspawn Abdel Adrian, around whom the trilogy revolves, travelling through a forest with his half-sister (from whom he sucked out the Bhaal juice in one of the earlier books) and his lover WHO IS A BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF. We know that she is a HALF-ELF and BEAUTIFUL because author Karpyshyn *tells us* that she is -- often. Abdel Adrian is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR; we know this because author Karpyshyn tells us that he is every second page or so. He is also INVULNERABLE TO MELEE ATTACKS; we know this because Karpyshyn tells us ... constantly, apparently believing that anyone who would read this book must be doing so only because it is named after a video game and must therefore suffer from such severe Attention Defecit Disorder that if something is not repeated at least twice in every three pages the reader will forget it. Did I mention that Abdel Is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR? Because he is. And his girlfriend is a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF. Who loves him despite his being a Bhaalspawn and prone to suddenly turning into a four-armed bug which is twelve feet tall and prone to quoting Kafka. The bug, called The Ravager, is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR and delights in slaughter, which is awkward for Abdel's half-sister and his girlfriend (who is a BEUTIFUL HALF-ELF, by the way). BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR Abdel, his half-sister and Abdel's BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF girlfriend are attacked by one of the Five, who is killed within four pages, so don't worry about her name. She uses rune-inscribed arrows to shoot Abdel's BIG, MUSCULAR, STRONG body, causing wounds which don't heal. This surprises him, because his body HEALS ITS OWN DAMAGE (we know this because Karpyshyn tells us at least four times in every single chapter). Surprised that the arrows prevent his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR BODY from HEALING ITS OWN DAMAGE, Abdel goes to some nether plane and there meets his dead half-brother -- another Bhaalspawn, whom he had killed in Book 1 or 2 -- and lets him have some Bhaal juice, which makes him come back to life. This half-brother, Sarevok, is an essential character because Abdel is as stupid as a brick and couldn't figure out that when you are in a nether plane in which *nothing* exists except for five doors hanging in mid-nothingness, the way to get home is to click your heels and say ... I mean, the way to get home is to OPEN A FRIGGIN' DOOR WHICH HAS YOUR HOME ON THE OTHER SIDE AND STEP THROUGH. Sarevok, who wears BLADED ARMOR -- which has BLADES on it, don't forget, because those BLADES will be important later on! -- tells his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR half-brother to open the door which has the big neon sign reading "THIS WAY TO THE FOREST WHERE YOUR HALF-SISTER AND BEUATIFUL HALF-ELF GIRLFRIEND ARE LOOKING FOR YOU," and there is the forest where his half-sister and BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF girlfriend are wondering where his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR BODY (which HEALS ITS OWN DAMAGE, remember) has got to! What a surprise! (Bet you didn't see *that one* coming from five pages earlier!) The four of them then go to Saradush, where lots of Bhaalspawn are gathered. Saradush is under siege, but they manage to walk through a sewer outflow and enter the city. The sewer is large enough for Sarevok, who wears BLADED ARMOR and Abdel, who is BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR (and seven feet tall, by the way) to walk through with no problem. Twenty thousand besieging soldiers failed to notice this open grate in the wall at any time in the past six months, presumably because Karpyshyn didn't write up a neon sign for it, saying, "THIS WAY TO THE SECRET ENTRANCE!!! BHAALSPAWN! BHAALSPAWN! BHAALSPAWN!" Sarevok, in his BLADED ARMOR and Abdel, with his BIG, STRONG, MUSCULAR BODY, and their half-sister, and Abdel's girlfriend, the BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF, are immediately caputured by the defenders, who seem to have forgotten that there was an eight-foot wide hole in the city wall, and blah, blah, blah, they meet Melisaan, who was the one who gathered hundreds of Bhaalspawn here "for their own safety." (If you haven't already figured out who the Chosen of Bhaal is by this point in the novel, don't worry, you're no more stupid than the characters.) Abdel is sent out to fight the besieging general, who is EVEN MORE BIGGER AND STRONGERER AND MORE MUSCULARARERER THAN ABDEL and whose WOUNDS ALSO HEAL THEMSELVES. The latter surprises Abdel, who, being slightly more a dullard than George of the Jungle, was not quick to realize that a guy who is nine feet tall and EVEN MORE BIGGER AND STRONGERER AND MORE MUSCULARARERER THAN HE, and who goes half-naked into battle against a seven foot tall BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR BHAALSPAWN who can turn into A FOUR ARMED, 12-FOOT TALL BUG could *also* HEAL HIS OWN WOUNDS -- doh! (Don't forget that Abdel's girlfriend is a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF -- not that it matters much at this point.) Abdel wins. Did I mention that the enemy general, who was EVEN MORE BIGGER AND STRONGERER AND MORE MUSCULARARERER THAN ABDEL, had a rune-inscribed axe, too? This surprises Abdel. It surprises him so much that he leaves it lying on the ground and walks away from it despite the fact that many bad things still exist in the world and want to kill him and his half-sister and kill (re-kill?) his half-brother (who wears BLADED ARMOR, don't forget), and these rune-weapons are the only things which can wound BIG AND STRONG AND MUSCULAR BHAALSPAWN who HEAL THEIR OWN WOUNDS. Then ... oh, God. Why bother telling more? There are dragons, who seem to exist only to be killed for experience points, being invulnerable before twenty thousand soldiers but dropping life gnats when fighting twelve-on-one against some schmuck in BLADED ARMOR who has no weapon but his BLADED ARMOR, and there are still more of the Five (three more, in fact!), and a mysterious monastery with a bad abbot and blah, blah, blah. This book reads like a first draft penned by a bright twelve-year-old -- someone who can put together a good story but who does not yet know how to write it well. When a writer with a good story and an execrable writing style submits material to a publisher, it is the responsibility of an editor to either fix the problems or else send the manuscript back to the author and tell him to rewrite it and keep rewriting until people like me won't be tempted to write reviews like this. Obviously no one at Wizards of the Coast bothered to do this. No *competent* editor would have allowed such sloppy, amateurish writing as this to hit the stands. Those who have played the game have complained here about the book failing to mention huge amounts of the material which is covered by the game. Had the book an editor who was even passably competent, at least one-eighth of it (which consisted of telling us that Abdel was BIG AND STRONG, etc., that his girlfriend was a BEAUTIFUL HALF-ELF, that his brother wore BLADED ARMORER, etc.) could have been cut and replaced with new information. That this was not done is entirely the fault of The slap-dash editorial policy of Wizards of the Coast, whose parent company, Hasbro, apparently thinks that, "If you publish it, they will buy it." Not this dreck! What is most galling about this lousy writing and editing is that there *is* an exciting, ripping yarn to be told about this chapter of Faerun's recent history. Except for Gregor Samsa -- er, Abdel Adrian --turning into a twelve foot bug just before the end, the last couple of chapters in this novel are very good (albeit somewhat flawed), and *I* honestly did not know who would win in the end. One character makes a surprising revelation which elicits a major shift in sympathy from one character to another and leaves Bhaal's plan to be reborn through his children in doubt -- up until the last couple of pages the outcome is uncertain, and not in a phoney, mock-suspense way, either -- there really is no certainty of who will win in the last two chapters. This uncertainty is dashed by the most obnoxious character in the entire book, an angel (for want of a term recognizable to non-gamers) who works for Ao, the Overpower, who gives marching orders to the gods. I know that this is what Ao does because I have read many other Forgotten Realms books. Karpyshan seems not to have known or cared who Ao is; he sticks this angel in the book *only* to pull off an _angelus_ _ex_ _machina_, thwarting the high level of suspense created just before the end and forcing it into the result that 99.99% of readers will have expected just from reading the blurb on the back cover. The angel (who wears a robe of black with a psychedelic star pattern, which I interpreted as indicating that this creature *was* Ao until events proved otherwise), constantly prattles about what is permitted and not permitted, and then proceeds to do what is not permitted. Ao, mind you, threw every god but one out of heaven because a few of them cheesed him off. We are to believe that he is going to let a mere angel disobey orders and alter the theological history of Faerun forever? I don't think so! A competent editor would have cut that thing from the book and told Karpyshyn to figure out some other way for Abdel to move around and know what he knows. This book did not have a competent editor. (About the protagonist's name: I don't know who is to be blamed for the name "Abdel Adrian," but as anyone who is even slightly familiar with Arabic, or who has ever read a baby name book -- or the AD&D book "Arabian Adventures"! -- knows, "abd-el" means "servant of" and is meaningless on its own; it must be followed by another word/name to show of whom the person so designated is the servant. In this series the central character's name literally translates as "servant of Adrian" -- as roughly *one billion people* could have told anyone at Wizards who cared enough to ask. Every time I came across his stupid "name" I kept wondering: "Who's Adrian?" Every page of this book burns with the result of such sloppy editing.) Sooo... should I pick it up or not? :thinks: |
| MagSgamE12-13-07, 12:39 AM | Sooo... should I pick it up or not? :thinks: It seems good for many lulz |
| Blibbering_Humdinger12-13-07, 12:39 AM | Sooo... should I pick it up or not? :thinks: Avoid the book as if it were some new super-evolved form of Black Death. Play the games as if doing so were the only way to save the human race from nuclear winter. |
| MagSgamE12-13-07, 12:40 AM | -Not hardly. The ample amount of fans who continue to play in the Realms, and have begun since the release of said novel don't exactly agree. Untold numbers of flies eat garbage and feces, untold numbers, I say!! XD |
| Pz.Az.04Maus12-13-07, 12:52 AM | From what little WoTC I've read, I've not been too disappointed. Read one of the Sharn short stories sets (Forget what) and from what I've seen, it was decent. Not incredible, but A Denny'sish quality good, with some exaggeration. Else, I haven't seen it. The sad part is that I know WoTC is capable of much better, and does much worse than you'd expect from a corperation that thrives only on a fanbase of loyal gamers. Update: MagsGame is also correct in the sheer EPIC OWNING that Kamhal delivers. It's true, he BEATS Chuck Norris by lightyears. |
| Alediran12-13-07, 12:59 AM | Players grow used to expecting things to work that way "What do you mean my barbarian cant hold open the Gate spell?! it worked on the books!" "My drow can SO do that!" "My dwarf doesnt need no stinking magic to craft magical, returning hammers!" There is one reason: playability and some kind of frame to work. If everybody wanted to do what they want then the rules aren't needed, you just tell stories. BTW: Wulfgar wasn't holding a Gate Spell, he was holding a magical artifact that emulates the Gate Spell effects, it's different because the magic artifact does have a physical frame while the Gate Spell is just a merge of planes. In that case it could be allowed. |
| Dark Wizard12-13-07, 01:02 AM | Thus highlighting the need for some separation between the novels and the game setting, if not a complete declaration of the novels being non-canon to the game setting. It could be fun, it could be like parallel Torils. Novel Toril will be Toril 1, game Toril will be Toril 2. Regular PC: "Hey, how come the fictional characters get to be Toril 1, what are we chopped liver?" Novel Uber-Character: "We have preference afforded us by the millions we make WotC each year. We get the best of everything." Regular PC: "That sucks! The Spellplague killed my grandfather for nothing!" Enlightened WotC in the near Future: "There, there, little PC. Novel Toril will be Toril A, game Toril will be Toril 1. Get it? Toril A because novels have lots of letters, Toril 1 because you use numbers for the game. We are magnificent." (Last part stated matter-of-factly as halo surrounds WotC) Regular PC: "Yay! WotC you're the best." Novel Uber-Character: "Sounds good to me. More RSEs for EVERYONE! You too Cyric, time to have your cronies bust you out of divine prison." Cyric: "Redrum, redrum." |
| Lord Karsus12-13-07, 01:15 AM | Untold numbers of flies eat garbage and feces, untold numbers, I say!! XD -True. But, that has no impact on my statement. |
| Kenzuki12-13-07, 09:46 AM | The Baldur's Gate novel trilogy is actually something I'de WANT Wizards to retcon.....Then follow the GAME more closely. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-13-07, 11:37 AM | Untold numbers of flies eat garbage and feces, untold numbers, I say!! XD So what lured you here to the FR boards, then?:rolleyes: |
| Redrake12-13-07, 01:07 PM | The Baldur's Gate novel trilogy is actually something I'de WANT Wizards to retcon.....Then follow the GAME more closely. You're joking, right? Some of them don't even play PnP D&D and you want them to try CRPGs?:D They should have wrote a book about Icewind Dale 1&2 games. Those games were careful not to impact on anything considered canon (by placing them about 80-50 years before the most novels). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-13-07, 01:27 PM | You're joking, right? Some of them don't even play PnP D&D and you want them to try CRPGs?:D Novels based on CRPGs probably don't involve the writer playing the game--I believe what usually happens (based on what I've read over the years) is that the writer receives an outline of the game and/or a summary of the game's story, then writes the novel based on that. |
| Redrake12-13-07, 01:38 PM | Exactly, this is what I said several posts earlier. They receive certain guidelines. But IMO, if you never played the game, then don't try to write a book. It's like trying to explain a painting without actually seeing it, but only from what other people told you about it. |
| Kenzuki12-13-07, 08:26 PM | I'm just saying that the Phil Athans could have been more true to the story and ideals that are in the game. Like for example how Khalid is portrayed or the horrid performance of Abdel which by the way is a retarded name..... |
| MarkusTay6312-13-07, 08:32 PM | Don't blame the editor... after all, he is only a Chimpanzee, and he tries really hard... :rolleyes: You try to edit that garbage for 5 bannanas a day. Besides, he flung his feces at the Return of the Archwizards series, so you know he at least has good taste. :P |
| Kenzuki12-13-07, 08:37 PM | Well an angry mob has to blame something.... |
| Lykor12-14-07, 08:57 PM | They should have wrote a book about Icewind Dale 1&2 games. I'll save you the trouble: while (!found_ancient_evil) { DestroyZone(); } You spend the entire game running to the next zone destroying random things. Is the tomb filled with undead a problem? No? Well, it won't be for long! What about the temple of Auril worshipers? No? Well, itwon't be for long! Repeat ad naseum. The games were fun, but not much plot or character development. |
| msatran12-14-07, 09:22 PM | Well, that was actually kind of weird. The events of Icewind Dale II were mentioned in 3.0, but NOT in GHOTR. It's the year that mercenaries come to sack Luskan, your PC's are mercenaries and get thrown off course, and that's where the misery begins. I loved that game. The Tan family still runs around doing stuff in my game. The players love to hate them. :) The PC's exit the lair of Illyrikos the Gaunt, a notorious Pirate Wizard, to find two Red Wizards of Thay, having tea and sandwiches under an umbrella. Inaaric Tan: Ahh, I see they've made it. Maalyric Tan: Oh, yes, they most assuredly have. The Bard looks at the Wizard. "Do you have any spells left?" The Wizard, an Air Genasi, turns to the Bard and says "Not that could handle those guys. Say, didn't we kill him some time ago?" Indicating Mallryic. Mallyric Tan: It seems, brother, that I owe you money. Innaric sighs: Yes, you do. She is indeed a powerful wizard, despite being tossed out the door of our embassy and abandoned to die on the streets of Calimport. Pay up. Mallyric Tan: Here you go...one copper piece.... (Dead silence from the PC's. Zasheida, the wizard, turns an ugly shade of bluish purple) Zasheida: YOU RUINED MY LIFE FOR A COPPER PIECE? The other characters all look at each other, having a feeling that this is going to end in bloodshed. Mostly theirs. Shalaria, a Fey'ri masquerading as an elf, says "Hold on, I have a solution." She gets two copper pieces out of her purse, and offers them to Innaric Tan. "Give her the copper piece." Inaaric Tan: Well...I suppose it's all right. (Gives Zasheida the copper piece.) Zasheida: That's...that's just...this...this isn't over... Zora, Zasheida's paramour and nominal group leader: Zasheida, we're leaving. Zasheida sighs and stalks crankily down the stairs back into the dungeon. I will probably never forget that scene.... |
| Lord Karsus12-15-07, 12:47 AM | Well, that was actually kind of weird. The events of Icewind Dale II were mentioned in 3.0, but NOT in GHOTR. It's the year that mercenaries come to sack Luskan, your PC's are mercenaries and get thrown off course, and that's where the misery begins. -Ah, that's right. We were looking for it. -And, there were also two "Years of the Banner". |
| msatran12-15-07, 03:00 AM | It's 1310 that the misery begins, I think. |
| Redrake12-15-07, 06:38 AM | I'll save you the trouble: while (!found_ancient_evil) { DestroyZone(); } You spend the entire game running to the next zone destroying random things. Is the tomb filled with undead a problem? No? Well, it won't be for long! What about the temple of Auril worshipers? No? Well, itwon't be for long! Repeat ad naseum. The games were fun, but not much plot or character development. That's exactly the point. In Baldur's Gate games there is character development, so a book is just going to be different when it comes to those characters. However, since in Icewind Dale games there is no character development, an author can put any characters he wants as long as he keeps to the story. And the story does not contradict in any way what is considered canon. You won't find Drizzt&Co (although clan Battlehammer is mentioned some times as being in Icewind Dale) or any other FR NPCs. The plot is however interesting. A linear story, but interesting nonetheless. From a linear story you can go along and implement any side-stories you want. You can even involve Harpers if you want. No one is going to blame you for changing the main story. Lord Karsus, AFAIK, in Icewind Dale 2, there is nothing to do with the mercenaries sacking Luskan. The story was that both cities of Neverwinter and Luskan sent help, Luskan first by luring mercenaries with the promise of riches. It was a way to keep themselves from committing their own militia while mercenaries were fighting for Luskan at the Ten Towns expense. I didn't know that those events were considered canon though. I don't remember ever reading something about it.:confused: |
| Lord Karsus12-15-07, 01:15 PM | Lord Karsus, AFAIK, in Icewind Dale 2, there is nothing to do with the mercenaries sacking Luskan. -Uh, I didn't say that it did? :confused: I didn't know that those events were considered canon though. I don't remember ever reading something about it.:confused: -Computer games and whatever aren't canon, unless they get mentioned in some kind of official sourcebook. For example, the events of Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide were recently made canon (mostly) in AGHotR, as it lists Undrentide as a Netherese Enclave. |
| Spirithawkfellow12-15-07, 01:27 PM | Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Adrian Does mean " dark one" If you look up the meaning of the name. I'm not sure if Abdel is son but it could be. So the name Abdel Adrian Is not to far off if he was making it into a type of actual netherese name and using the old meaning for names for it. Is it a cool name? Of course it is lol, I wouldn't walk around with it all my life if it wasn't, lol. |
| Stigger12-15-07, 04:12 PM | Why does the misery begin in 1310? Just completely lost me there... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-15-07, 07:14 PM | -Computer games and whatever aren't canon, unless they get mentioned in some kind of official sourcebook. For example, the events of Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide were recently made canon (mostly) in AGHotR, as it lists Undrentide as a Netherese Enclave. Indeed, that enclave is canon (and being a fan of NWN as a whole, I was happy about that), but since the timeline didn't mention any actual events of the game (ie. the city of Undrentide temporarily returning to the sky thanks to the story's villain) I had assumed that the events of the game itself weren't canon. But those events did happen in MY Realms.:) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-15-07, 07:16 PM | Rinonalyrna Fathomlin Adrian Does mean " dark one" If you look up the meaning of the name. I'm not sure if Abdel is son but it could be. So the name Abdel Adrian Is not to far off if he was making it into a type of actual netherese name and using the old meaning for names for it. Is it a cool name? Of course it is lol, I wouldn't walk around with it all my life if it wasn't, lol. *shrug* Whether the name means something or not (and no offense to you if your name is Adrian, or Abdel :) ), I still thought most of what was in that novel was pretty silly, and at times outrageously bad. |
| Kenzuki12-16-07, 07:37 AM | Indeed, that enclave is canon (and being a fan of NWN as a whole, I was happy about that), but since the timeline didn't mention any actual events of the game (ie. the city of Undrentide temporarily returning to the sky thanks to the story's villain) I had assumed that the events of the game itself weren't canon. But those events did happen in MY Realms.:) Well, one would have to assume that some of the game's stuff did happen. If the Wailing Death really did hit Neverwinter and we all know what the source of the Wailing Death was so that should still be in there, just not written down. Didn't Nasher get all pissy at the hero because the hero wanted to spare Aribeth and the whole city wanted to execute her so he had revisionists take him out of the story or something? |
| Stigger12-16-07, 10:29 AM | The NWN OC storyline was so contrived as far as Realms canon goes it wasn't even funny... still a fun adventure sure, but it doesn't mesh well with the known facts of the Neverwinter area. Don't even get me started on the rest of it. |
| Zanan12-16-07, 12:02 PM | The faith of Kiaransalee got a decent enough write-up in Demihuman Deities, spiced up recently with a few bits of info in City of the Spider Queen, Champions of Ruin and the like. Enter Storm of the Dead. About half the info from DD is missing or ignored, while the clerics of Kiaransalee running about are essentially nothing but near-mad hags (in every sense of the word) using rancid fat to color their skulls and what have you. If it was some never-described hobgoblin cult, fair enough, but dear me. That was probably the worst bit of the whole series, even worse than the ongoing deiicide. |
| Lord Karsus12-16-07, 12:55 PM | Enter Storm of the Dead. About half the info from DD is missing or ignored, while the clerics of Kiaransalee running about are essentially nothing but near-mad hags (in every sense of the word) using rancid fat to color their skulls and what have you. -Well, in fairness to everyone, they do do that, what, with the ashes of the dead and everything. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-16-07, 08:34 PM | Well, one would have to assume that some of the game's stuff did happen. Of course not. I certainly don't assume that. I agree with Stigger--the NWN OC was atrocious from an FR lore standpoint. |
| Lord Karsus12-16-07, 09:47 PM | Of course not. I certainly don't assume that. -All we know if that a plague swept through Neverwinter. How it was resolved...Well, that's up to you... |
| Stigger12-17-07, 04:12 AM | Won't happen in my campaign, I can tell you that much... |
| Zanan12-17-07, 08:29 AM | -Well, in fairness to everyone, they do do that, what, with the ashes of the dead and everything. :) But that is only half the story. I'd expect orcs and hobgoblins and Orcus cultist (Couldnae resist :D ) to use rancid fat doing this, but drow? Anyway, much of the lore of DD and even CotSQ was simply chucked or ignored, and given the author's eloquence describing the other faiths, especially all the "beautiful" Eilistraeen stuff, it was a major disappointment. |
| Kenzuki12-17-07, 01:28 PM | On this topic of novels, is the War of the Spider Queen series a good one? I'm thinking of getting it to more familarize myself with the dark elves. |
| Lord Karsus12-17-07, 03:56 PM | Anyway, much of the lore of DD and even CotSQ was simply chucked or ignored... -What's new? On this topic of novels, is the War of the Spider Queen series a good one? I'm thinking of getting it to more familarize myself with the dark elves. -Eh, yes and no. It shows the nature of Drow fairly accurate, but because it takes place during trying times, it doesn't necessarily portray Drow society as it normally is. |
| Kenzuki12-17-07, 10:21 PM | Is it a good series to read though? I'm hungry for something good to read. |
| Lord Karsus12-18-07, 12:26 AM | Is it a good series to read though? I'm hungry for something good to read. -Yeah, overall, it's a good bunch of six books. |
| Zanan12-18-07, 07:39 AM | -What's new? Do you refer to the fact that stuff get'S ignored or do you want to know what is new in the recent books? Regarding the latter, Champions of Ruin is telling us about a cleric of Kiaransalee about to convert a bunch of wild elves / drow to the worship of Kia ... on the surface and thus away from the influence of the magic cast by Q'arlynd through faerzress. Unless you assume that the drow all carry their own bit of faerzress about wherever they go and thus were always caught. Yet, imagine that the cleric had already converted a wild elf or two?: Coming into the tent were the priestess lives and finds her with a questioning look on her face, as she simply cannot give the true name of her deity, just the aliases spring to her mind. "Heck, I just can't remember ..." The Wild Elf bows down as s/he enters and utters the usual greeting: "Kiaransalee be praised, all victory is her doing!" The drow snips her fingers: "Cheers for that." And back to business ... |
| Kenzuki12-18-07, 09:40 AM | It won't matter since Kia is now dead. I bet Orcus had a good laugh over that one. |
| MarkusTay6312-18-07, 12:47 PM | I have never played ANY of the FR computer games, but someone has just given me the original Baldur's gate. Is it worth installing and playing? :confused: Sorry if this is not on-topic, but since the game/book was discussed, I just figured I'd ask. |
| Alediran12-18-07, 01:00 PM | I have never played ANY of the FR computer games, but someone has just given me the original Baldur's gate. Is it worth installing and playing? :confused: Sorry if this is not on-topic, but since the game/book was discussed, I just figured I'd ask. Play it, every person I know that played the game loved it (I haven played it:() |
| Redrake12-18-07, 01:13 PM | The NWN OC storyline was so contrived as far as Realms canon goes it wasn't even funny... still a fun adventure sure, but it doesn't mesh well with the known facts of the Neverwinter area. Don't even get me started on the rest of it. I really hate the OC campaign. Is so boring. And there are plenty of good modules around (I usually play the ones in FR setting). I don't know if a game like Planescape Torment is considered canon, since I don't know much about that setting. I do know that there is a book of some sort about that game. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-18-07, 01:49 PM | I have never played ANY of the FR computer games, but someone has just given me the original Baldur's gate. Is it worth installing and playing? :confused: Absolutely. |
| Kenzuki12-18-07, 01:58 PM | Baldur's Gate introduced me to the Realms, so yeah I'de play it if I were you. |
| Redrake12-18-07, 02:06 PM | Unless he hates 2E.:) |
| Lord Karsus12-18-07, 03:01 PM | Do you refer to the fact that stuff get'S ignored or do you want to know what is new in the recent books? -The fact that random things are ignored, deleted, replaced, remembered at opportune times, etc... Is it worth installing and playing? :confused: -If you know 2e, probably. I have the second Baldur's Gate (Shadows of Amn), and I installed it, but I could never get into it much, 'cause it was all 2e. I was like, "Ha! My AC is 22! No one can stop me now!......What!? I'm dead!? With a 22 AC!? WTF!?" :embarrass |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin12-18-07, 03:58 PM | Also, the graphics will no doubt feel dated, as BG1 come out back in 1998. But I had a lot of fun with it, so...I recommend it.:) |
| Stigger12-18-07, 07:25 PM | Might be hard to run though... it won't work on my computer at all unless I install BG2 and run that BG1 TuTu conversion so that it runs on the BG2 engine. Highly worth it though if you don't mind 2d graphics that look pretty crap over 800x600 resolution. |