Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Green Elven Vampire 01-10-04, 04:20 PM	Okay, a bard in my group cast the dissmissal spell on a Bebilith (Tanar'ri) and sent the beastie back to Avernus. Now the PC is asking if he gets XP's for sending it back without destroying it first. Does he? Thanks.
Kuje31 01-10-04, 04:39 PM	Originally posted by Green Elven Vampire Okay, a bard in my group cast the dissmissal spell on a Bebilith (Tanar'ri) and sent the beastie back to Avernus. Now the PC is asking if he gets XP's for sending it back without destroying it first. Does he? Thanks. I would say yes. You get exp for "defeating" a encounter. This could be killing it, using diplomacy or other skills, using spells, etc.
Tebryn14 01-10-04, 04:40 PM	BTW, Avernus is the first layer of Baator, so unless you have a new spell. Anyway, I would award for that, maybe not full, but at least almost full. It is a safe bet that they will never again meet that particular Demon, unless a Drizzt/Errtu-like situation ensues.
Cunning Linguist 01-10-04, 04:49 PM	Okay, a bard in my group cast the dissmissal spell on a Bebilith (Tanar'ri) and sent the beastie back to Avernus. Now the PC is asking if he gets XP's for sending it back without destroying it first. Does he? Depends.. who summond it? Did they kill him after that? You don't get xp for getting rid of summond monsters. Much like you don't get exstra xp for counterspelling a spell.
Zanan 01-10-04, 05:07 PM	Dunno about this. Usually, any kill of a summoned monster gets XP from me if the players defeat it in combat. Same goes for simulacra. The rules say that summoned creatures make up the EL of the summoner, but it really depends on the actual case. Maybe the player / character knowledge needs to be tested here (not that I doubt the integrity of your player) as in: Knowledge Planes / Spellcraft / etc. check?
Another Gnome 01-10-04, 06:11 PM	A creature -called- outside combat should be no different from one come on its own free will where experience is concerned, and I doubt the XP rule on -summoned- creatures really is referring to non-combat summoning anyway (same with simulacrum or anything else created outside combat for that matter - denying XP from things like that is like saying that a bad guy killed and later raised from the dead is only worth XP the first time around). Anyway, as was already mentioned, the "combat experience" the CR of a creature measures is awarded from -overcoming- the challenge. That doesn't require actually killing the creature or even rendering it unconscious - or fighting it at all. Note that surviving a trap, for example, gives the same CR-based XP award no matter if it was disarmed or simply, blindly walked into. Circumstances -may- adjust the final XP count up or down (I'd not give -full- XP award from surprising and delivering a coup-de-grace on an already sleeping monster, for example, but I would give full XP for using the sleep spell in combat and then finishing off the helpless foe), but simply ignoring the context of the encounter and awarding normal XP every time should also balance out in the end. To sum it up: unless the bebilith in question was there as a result of a spell or other ability used during combat, I say the bard definitely deserves the experience. Dismissal should be no different from any other spell that ends a fight before it even gets to start. [As a side note, in case of those one-hit-kill battles, I give the other party members their share of XP even if they didn't yet have the chance to act, as long as they at least -could- have been able to participate.]
Zanan 01-11-04, 04:27 AM	Originally posted by Another Gnome ... [As a side note, in case of those one-hit-kill battles, I give the other party members their share of XP even if they didn't yet have the chance to act, as long as they at least -could- have been able to participate.] Let me echo that. While a one-spell kill / dismissal sounds to easy, one has to remember that such spells exist much earlier (Hold Person / Monster) and e.g. a rogue at those levels, and the right selection of feats (not even maxed) can hand out sneak attack damage with a couple of hits that essentially kills the bebilith as well. As I said, it depends on the situation. NB: Even though it is somewhat hard to believe that a mage 15 has the same CR than a fighter of the same level. While the fighter stands there and boast nice AC and hundreds of HP, the mage can turn invisible, fly and summon a handful of kytons to keep the party busy while laying into them with fingers of deaths and all from safe distance :rolleyes:
Green Elven Vampire 01-11-04, 06:20 AM	Here is the layout... 8 PC's... 6 elves 2 humans. Tanar'ri's were gated in by Countess Sarya Dlardrageth and sent to the nameless dungeon to ambush the PC's on behest of Grazzt. (note: long time hatred between the Fey'ri and the PC's). During the first round of melee/spell battle the Star elf Bard casts Dissmissal and sends the Bebilith back to the Abyss (not avernus as i previously stated) leaving the party still with another Bebilith, a Retriver, Hezrou, Marilith and Glabrezu. The PC's still have a good chance of having their butts handed to them no doubt.
Another Gnome 01-11-04, 06:56 AM	Well, I'm not quite sure what the new rules say on defeated monsters in an ultimately lost battle, but in the first printing of the 3.0 PH there is the "survival guide" (really official these days, isn't it... :D ) that clearly says that if the PCs lose the battle (or escape from it) nobody gets XP for any defeated monster because the overall challenge was never overcome. (Outdated or not, I still stick to that ruling myself, as it's balanced out by giving full experience from retreating opponents.)
Bifford 01-11-04, 08:43 AM	Unlike slaying, however, the outsider immediately reappears on its home plane unscathed. If the extraplanar has access to plane shift and teleport (bebiliths possess the former but not the latter), it could rejoin the battle in a few rounds. I'd still say you should get full XP for defeating it, though.