Do the gods fear Technology? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Do the gods fear Technology? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gellion
07-04-03, 06:39 AM I know that Ogmha makes sure Gond doesnt give too much technology to his followers. My question is do the gods fear technology, do they fear that if it became advanced enough, that the mortals in the realms would overthrow them? The reason i dont think they fear magic is becasue Ao can control it, with Mystra, but he cannot really control technology. I am also unsure if smokepowder is an alchemical substance or magical, some people say it is alchemical, others say magical. Even if it is magical, they might still fear technology, if it got past the stage where smokepowder was considered an obsolte weapon. Or they found some other nonmgical means of making a powerful weapon.
Nei
07-04-03, 07:01 AM Ao can control technology too, with the help of Talos. "Oh, I see you have built a car... ::hurricane:: Oh, I see you have built a nuclear power plant... ::earthquake:: "

You see, the gods can always hinder man's progress. I don't think many of the gods will mind technological advancement. I think they mind it if it is operated by anyone other then their followers.

Nei
Dracoth
07-04-03, 07:04 AM Yeah like guns, planes, missiles, submarines, and nukes! If I were a god I'd sure be scared :P

Yeah they can hinder man's progress I guess, but an earthquake on a nuclear power plant would be devestating to the surrounding area in terms of radioactive poisoning (evidence in europe.) And repetetive hurricanes and natural disasters could spell doom for everyone living on the planet. :O !! The possibilities!!!! So the question is, could they halter man's progression without utterly destroying themselves and their world??? Well I just like to play Devil's advocate, sorry guys

At this point I don't think they would fear it too much :P

-Dracoth.
Gellion
07-04-03, 07:07 AM Im pretty sure the only god who would really approve of advancing technology would be Gond.

I think the reason most of the gods fear yechnology is becasue their power is tied to their level of worship. If the commonfolk realized they can just do it themselves with technology they might stop following a deity.

Okay maybe that a bad example becasue even with the technology we have today there are still plenty of religions.
Another Gnome
07-04-03, 07:08 AM Gond is technology in the Realms. Ultimately, no mortal can create an invention without Gond and Oghma approving the idea, just like no spell can be researched without Mystra's approval.

Regardless, no matter how advanced technology is, even a nuclear blast would be stopped by something as simple as a wall of force. Technology simply never will be on par with magic.
Gellion
07-04-03, 07:08 AM Originally posted by Dracoth
Yeah like guns, planes, missiles, submarines, and nukes! If I were a god I'd sure be scared :P

-Dracoth.

Im talking bout extremely advanced technology.

But they must at least dislike it, because it seems followers of Gond arent exactly liked in some places.
Gellion
07-04-03, 07:10 AM I dunno this is just the impression I get from a lot of FR novels.:P
Dracoth
07-04-03, 07:11 AM ACK!
I edited my post and 3 ppl replied already! at 4 in the morning! sorry please scroll and read my msg :P
Gellion
07-04-03, 07:14 AM I know there is a quote about advanced tech being indistinguishable from magic, but i cant remember it exactly.

Wow the FR boards are the only ones active this early.:)
Gellion
07-04-03, 07:18 AM Well if they dont now, THEY SHALL SOON!!!!!!!

*Starts writing up his Artificer Core Class*
FineasBoggs
07-04-03, 12:55 PM With magic so abundantly able to duplicate just about any effect that a machine could and in many cases surpassing that effect, I don't think the Gods have anything to fear from technology, nor do I feel that many people even have any desire for it when magic can give them what they would need.
Gadodel
07-04-03, 03:57 PM Do Gods fear Technology? No.

Do their Clerics and/or followers? Enough do to block its widespread advancement. Apart from Gond and a few others, most folks would rather listen to the Clergy or go along with "herd" or the rest of society.

Gods, by their very nature do not have to 'fear' much at all.
Gellion
07-04-03, 04:54 PM Originally posted by Gadodel
Do Gods fear Technology? No.

Do their Clerics and/or followers? Enough do to block its widespread advancement. Apart from Gond and a few others, most folks would rather listen to the Clergy or go along with "herd" or the rest of society.

Gods, by their very nature do not have to 'fear' much at all.

Except for other gods.:P
Gadodel
07-04-03, 05:08 PM Good Point.

:embarrass
jim9311
07-04-03, 05:46 PM Gods power comes from worshippers, right.

Dump your non technological gods and worship Gond and the other gods ability to squash tech will diminish.:smirk:
Gadodel
07-04-03, 05:54 PM There'ya go.

A Divine Industrial Revolution!!!
Psionycx
07-04-03, 08:31 PM Even in the classic AD&D adventure "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks", where PC's discover a crashed starship from another universe, the super high-tech, while different enough to be perplexing, does not exceed the capabilities of magic.
Consider all the things that spellcasters in D&D can do. Then cross-reference it to what WE can do in the real world. Obviously things like teleportation, controlling the weather, rapidly transforming raw materials into structures, healing the sick and raising the dead are all well beyond any technology we're capable of.

So how long, exactly, would it take for Realms civilizations to develop technology sufficient to supercede magic?

Remember that a lot of "technology" present in the Realms is magical in essential nature, this includes a lot of the work of Gondsmen. Even way back in 1E some fascinating instances of technology were in use back then even by the gods, notably Lolth's spider ship.

Which brings the key point. Possessing both generally greater magical power and vastly superior intellects, the gods could probably cook up gadgetry of their own to stay ahead of the curve even if mortals started to get technical.

But since I expect that a D&D cleric would be hailed as a miracle worker even in our real world, I doubt they, or their deities, would go obsolete in the Realms.
Gellion
07-04-03, 10:25 PM But then we'll have Gnomes with jetpacks, and frikkin laserbeams on their heads.

They will nuke the world killing all of the gods followers.:smirk:

*Runs away from all the Gnomes, because of the Tinker Gnome reference.*
Baron Phylos
07-04-03, 11:02 PM Didn't the Imaski Empire attain a higher level of technology than comtemporary Faerun and managed to mesh it well with Magic? And were even capable of blocking off Gods until Ao himself intervened to allow the Mulrohandi gods to come to Toril.
Gellion
07-04-03, 11:35 PM Ao is opressing us. FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!!!!!
Mirtek
07-05-03, 03:27 AM Originally posted by Baron Phylos
Didn't the Imaski Empire attain a higher level of technology than comtemporary Faerun and managed to mesh it well with Magic? And were even capable of blocking off Gods until Ao himself intervened to allow the Mulrohandi gods to come to Toril.

No, they used good old magic to do all this.

Although it was never explained which magic mortals could wield, that's powerfull enough to prevent a whole pantheon deities from etablishing a divine connection to a certain crystall sphere.

But kidnapin their slaves from annother world and building the blockade was done with magic.
WraithXIII
07-05-03, 12:39 PM Why would any god fear technology? A greater deity could blink it out of existence with but a thought, and lesser ones would find ways to cause it to fail. Since they are gods, they exist outside the realm of Physics, the foundation of technology. On top of that, magic itself would be more of a threat than tech could ever be on Faerun, like in Karsus' instance. The most reason I could see any god on Faerun fearing tech is because of the rule that Ao laid forth dictating that a god's power is tied into the amount of worshippers he/she has. If tech proved itself to be more efficient, then the gods could lose alot of power and eventually go dormant if they lost all of their followers. This is the only reason I can see.
FineasBoggs
07-05-03, 01:29 PM Well put psionycx:bow: I do agree. Anything tech can do macig can do better.
Alzrius
07-05-03, 01:49 PM We have lots of evidence, both direct and circumstantial, that the gods have no reason to fear technology in the Realms...though many mortals certainly do.

The idea that technology could "overthrow" the gods just doesn't work...technology won't ever allow them to build bullets or lasers that will overcome a god's DR. It won't lure their worshippers away from their churches either, because the people of the Realms know what happens to them if they die without having worshipped a god.

Smokepowder (which is a magical substance (different from gunpowder), since MoF retconned the FRCS by saying that it takes the Craft Wondrous Item feat to create), is actively being suppressed by many mages and such in Faerun (such as in Waterdeep, where is is contraband), but that is due to a fear of it supplanting magic, not religion.
Gadodel
07-05-03, 03:43 PM I tend to agree...the effects of Magic and Technology upon Gods is far different the effects they have on Mortals. I would say that they are mutually exclusive...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gellion 07-04-03, 06:39 AM	I know that Ogmha makes sure Gond doesnt give too much technology to his followers. My question is do the gods fear technology, do they fear that if it became advanced enough, that the mortals in the realms would overthrow them? The reason i dont think they fear magic is becasue Ao can control it, with Mystra, but he cannot really control technology. I am also unsure if smokepowder is an alchemical substance or magical, some people say it is alchemical, others say magical. Even if it is magical, they might still fear technology, if it got past the stage where smokepowder was considered an obsolte weapon. Or they found some other nonmgical means of making a powerful weapon.
Nei 07-04-03, 07:01 AM	Ao can control technology too, with the help of Talos. "Oh, I see you have built a car... ::hurricane:: Oh, I see you have built a nuclear power plant... ::earthquake:: " You see, the gods can always hinder man's progress. I don't think many of the gods will mind technological advancement. I think they mind it if it is operated by anyone other then their followers. Nei
Dracoth 07-04-03, 07:04 AM	Yeah like guns, planes, missiles, submarines, and nukes! If I were a god I'd sure be scared :P Yeah they can hinder man's progress I guess, but an earthquake on a nuclear power plant would be devestating to the surrounding area in terms of radioactive poisoning (evidence in europe.) And repetetive hurricanes and natural disasters could spell doom for everyone living on the planet. :O !! The possibilities!!!! So the question is, could they halter man's progression without utterly destroying themselves and their world??? Well I just like to play Devil's advocate, sorry guys At this point I don't think they would fear it too much :P -Dracoth.
Gellion 07-04-03, 07:07 AM	Im pretty sure the only god who would really approve of advancing technology would be Gond. I think the reason most of the gods fear yechnology is becasue their power is tied to their level of worship. If the commonfolk realized they can just do it themselves with technology they might stop following a deity. Okay maybe that a bad example becasue even with the technology we have today there are still plenty of religions.
Another Gnome 07-04-03, 07:08 AM	Gond is technology in the Realms. Ultimately, no mortal can create an invention without Gond and Oghma approving the idea, just like no spell can be researched without Mystra's approval. Regardless, no matter how advanced technology is, even a nuclear blast would be stopped by something as simple as a wall of force. Technology simply never will be on par with magic.
Gellion 07-04-03, 07:08 AM	Originally posted by Dracoth Yeah like guns, planes, missiles, submarines, and nukes! If I were a god I'd sure be scared :P -Dracoth. Im talking bout extremely advanced technology. But they must at least dislike it, because it seems followers of Gond arent exactly liked in some places.
Gellion 07-04-03, 07:10 AM	I dunno this is just the impression I get from a lot of FR novels.:P
Dracoth 07-04-03, 07:11 AM	ACK! I edited my post and 3 ppl replied already! at 4 in the morning! sorry please scroll and read my msg :P
Gellion 07-04-03, 07:14 AM	I know there is a quote about advanced tech being indistinguishable from magic, but i cant remember it exactly. Wow the FR boards are the only ones active this early.:)
Gellion 07-04-03, 07:18 AM	Well if they dont now, THEY SHALL SOON!!!!!!! Starts writing up his Artificer Core Class
FineasBoggs 07-04-03, 12:55 PM	With magic so abundantly able to duplicate just about any effect that a machine could and in many cases surpassing that effect, I don't think the Gods have anything to fear from technology, nor do I feel that many people even have any desire for it when magic can give them what they would need.
Gadodel 07-04-03, 03:57 PM	Do Gods fear Technology? No. Do their Clerics and/or followers? Enough do to block its widespread advancement. Apart from Gond and a few others, most folks would rather listen to the Clergy or go along with "herd" or the rest of society. Gods, by their very nature do not have to 'fear' much at all.
Gellion 07-04-03, 04:54 PM	Originally posted by Gadodel Do Gods fear Technology? No. Do their Clerics and/or followers? Enough do to block its widespread advancement. Apart from Gond and a few others, most folks would rather listen to the Clergy or go along with "herd" or the rest of society. Gods, by their very nature do not have to 'fear' much at all. Except for other gods.:P
Gadodel 07-04-03, 05:08 PM	Good Point. :embarrass
jim9311 07-04-03, 05:46 PM	Gods power comes from worshippers, right. Dump your non technological gods and worship Gond and the other gods ability to squash tech will diminish.:smirk:
Gadodel 07-04-03, 05:54 PM	There'ya go. A Divine Industrial Revolution!!!
Psionycx 07-04-03, 08:31 PM	Even in the classic AD&D adventure "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks", where PC's discover a crashed starship from another universe, the super high-tech, while different enough to be perplexing, does not exceed the capabilities of magic. Consider all the things that spellcasters in D&D can do. Then cross-reference it to what WE can do in the real world. Obviously things like teleportation, controlling the weather, rapidly transforming raw materials into structures, healing the sick and raising the dead are all well beyond any technology we're capable of. So how long, exactly, would it take for Realms civilizations to develop technology sufficient to supercede magic? Remember that a lot of "technology" present in the Realms is magical in essential nature, this includes a lot of the work of Gondsmen. Even way back in 1E some fascinating instances of technology were in use back then even by the gods, notably Lolth's spider ship. Which brings the key point. Possessing both generally greater magical power and vastly superior intellects, the gods could probably cook up gadgetry of their own to stay ahead of the curve even if mortals started to get technical. But since I expect that a D&D cleric would be hailed as a miracle worker even in our real world, I doubt they, or their deities, would go obsolete in the Realms.
Gellion 07-04-03, 10:25 PM	But then we'll have Gnomes with jetpacks, and frikkin laserbeams on their heads. They will nuke the world killing all of the gods followers.:smirk: Runs away from all the Gnomes, because of the Tinker Gnome reference.
Baron Phylos 07-04-03, 11:02 PM	Didn't the Imaski Empire attain a higher level of technology than comtemporary Faerun and managed to mesh it well with Magic? And were even capable of blocking off Gods until Ao himself intervened to allow the Mulrohandi gods to come to Toril.
Gellion 07-04-03, 11:35 PM	Ao is opressing us. FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!!!!!
Mirtek 07-05-03, 03:27 AM	Originally posted by Baron Phylos Didn't the Imaski Empire attain a higher level of technology than comtemporary Faerun and managed to mesh it well with Magic? And were even capable of blocking off Gods until Ao himself intervened to allow the Mulrohandi gods to come to Toril. No, they used good old magic to do all this. Although it was never explained which magic mortals could wield, that's powerfull enough to prevent a whole pantheon deities from etablishing a divine connection to a certain crystall sphere. But kidnapin their slaves from annother world and building the blockade was done with magic.
WraithXIII 07-05-03, 12:39 PM	Why would any god fear technology? A greater deity could blink it out of existence with but a thought, and lesser ones would find ways to cause it to fail. Since they are gods, they exist outside the realm of Physics, the foundation of technology. On top of that, magic itself would be more of a threat than tech could ever be on Faerun, like in Karsus' instance. The most reason I could see any god on Faerun fearing tech is because of the rule that Ao laid forth dictating that a god's power is tied into the amount of worshippers he/she has. If tech proved itself to be more efficient, then the gods could lose alot of power and eventually go dormant if they lost all of their followers. This is the only reason I can see.
FineasBoggs 07-05-03, 01:29 PM	Well put psionycx:bow: I do agree. Anything tech can do macig can do better.
Alzrius 07-05-03, 01:49 PM	We have lots of evidence, both direct and circumstantial, that the gods have no reason to fear technology in the Realms...though many mortals certainly do. The idea that technology could "overthrow" the gods just doesn't work...technology won't ever allow them to build bullets or lasers that will overcome a god's DR. It won't lure their worshippers away from their churches either, because the people of the Realms know what happens to them if they die without having worshipped a god. Smokepowder (which is a magical substance (different from gunpowder), since MoF retconned the FRCS by saying that it takes the Craft Wondrous Item feat to create), is actively being suppressed by many mages and such in Faerun (such as in Waterdeep, where is is contraband), but that is due to a fear of it supplanting magic, not religion.
Gadodel 07-05-03, 03:43 PM	I tend to agree...the effects of Magic and Technology upon Gods is far different the effects they have on Mortals. I would say that they are mutually exclusive...