Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meta_FR_DM 06-18-05, 02:59 PM	.. Don't understand part of the Forgotten Realms? Tough luck, figure it out on your own, nobody official is going to stop and give you the time of day, much less answer your questions. Doesn’t sound right, does it? Yet in this post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6473030&postcount=14) in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6477182#post6477182) on these very forums, that’s exactly the claim a longtime forum member (and big-time Eberron fan) made just the other day, even though he knows it’s not true. Now, before cries of ‘we don’t need a boards war’ erupt, I want to make something clear: There are certain people who are longtime members of this community that are still to this day trying to hurt and destroy the Realms. Not Eberron Fans or whatever (I’ve been to the Eb boards and know everyone’s pretty cool over there), just a few people. I hope that if any of you see such false statements like the one above on other forums on this website you’ll calmly and rationally point out why they are false and give proof (as I did, later in that thread) that proves what you are saying is true. Combating disinformation is one way to ensure the Realms gets a fare shake in the minds of potential new fans to the setting, and will help keep it alive and kicking as a product. Dave M.
Sarig the Genie 06-18-05, 03:40 PM	I'm off the opinion that both settings are great, and can coexist nicely. Too bad not everyone thinks so...
Cole Deschain 06-18-05, 04:23 PM	Again with your "The Realms are imperiled as a setting" schtick. Listen. The default setting for 3E was to be Greyhawk, yes? And yet, it seems that FR keeps cranking out more material . Clearly, then, the setting is still being supported quite heavily, far more so than many worlds which I, for one, preferred. Instead of overreacting to the inane statements of a single anti-fan, perhaps you should worry if the release schedule starts to look like the one Ravenloft fans have to look forward to, of two or three notable releases per year.
Meta_FR_DM 06-18-05, 06:04 PM	Again with your "The Realms are imperiled as a setting" schtick. [Edited out my grumpy response. Sorry Cole.] All I'm saying is these forums play host to people who are longtime regulars that enjoy their status and use it to go out of their way heap crap on what they don't like. All I'm asking is for those who see such crap to disprove it, because yes, it can and will disuade new fans from the Realms. And that's not right. Period. Dave M.
Alac Luin 06-18-05, 06:42 PM	Combating disinformation is one way to ensure the Realms gets a fare shake in the minds of potential new fans to the setting, and will help keep it alive and kicking as a product. Really, this is no schtick. It's really part of our unoffical responsibility. There are a lot of gamers out there that have a bad opinion of the realms. Many times they had a DM that abused realms that left them with a bad taste in thier mouth. Much more offten, it is people who never actually DMed/played/read a realms source book/ read a realms novel that dislike the realms becouse they "heard stories". It's not like the realms is on it's last leg, but we can help it last another 20 some odd years if we help do our part and give people fair and informed information that may lead them to Faerun.
Meta_FR_DM 06-18-05, 10:43 PM	Thank you Alac. I'd like to reiterate I don't want people to come off like I do. I'm tempramental to a fault and I know that. All I'm asking is for calm, reasoned responses to the B.S. if it's encountered outside the Realms forums. Whenever we as Realms fans bring our own positive, legitimate experiences forth and post them, we almost always turn at least one person on to the setting. And that's a good thing. Better someone try it and decide they don't like it than assume the worst (based on someone else's false testimony) about the setting and never get an honest chance to see for themselves, you know? Dave M.
Iron Cobra 06-18-05, 10:58 PM	This might be with the "if it's popular, its ok to hate it for no reason" shtick. Similar things apply with Drizzt Do'Urden, i have seen a majority of hate and distaste leveled his way, purely because others hate him. And with no real justification. I can see where you're coming from, and I respect your view on the matter.
Cole Deschain 06-18-05, 11:23 PM	[Edited out my grumpy response. Sorry Cole.] No need to apologize. I myself am far too harsh. My apologies to you. It's nice to see someone who cares about their favored setting enough to make an aggressive case for it.
Yokinobu 06-19-05, 02:10 AM	Wow, I'm glad you brought this to my attention, Dave. A campaign setting requires fans to keep it going, otherwise it goes the way of the dinosaurs. Whether or not this has anything to do with it, I've become worried of late because of the need for cutting cost in publishing Realms material. You know what I mean, the decrease of book size to 160 pages and the addition of advertisements within the book. Therefore, I respect your desire to actively dissuade others from slandering(if that isn't too strong a word) the Realms, intentional or not, by defending the authors/designers' devotion to it's fan base. Those people take time to go out of their way and clarify things for little people like you and I, and they deserve every ounce of credit for it. One might say that the Realms doesn't need to be defended from petty untruths like the one linked to above. Honestly, thats how misconceptions spread, and hurts the view of the Realms in the eyes of potential fans. The signifcance of this can be compared to hearing one bad review of a movie, and deciding to pass it up in favor of another based on small criticism(which I admittedly have done before). But Alac explained it far better than I could.
Faraer 06-19-05, 10:45 AM	A lot of the reason I post here, as well as helping people with queries and trying to help distinguish the Realms wood from the trees, and to exchange ideas with people, is exactly to combat disinformation. Ignorance does flourish and proliferate in the dark.
Another Gnome 06-19-05, 01:15 PM	I can see the point of the original post, and yes, it is an outrageous claim that FR authors don't talk to their fans. But, public burning of a person for having an opinion, no matter how ill-informed the opinion may be, is not a constructive way to introduce the problem, or to suggest ways to fix it.
Meta_FR_DM 06-19-05, 03:18 PM	Gnome, I respect your opinion. But for me, it's a little different for three reasons. (1) The Forum Member in Question wasn't presenting his opinion, he was making (false) factual statements that were used to contrast one group of game authors with another. (2) The only way that longtime forum member could have know for sure that Realms Authors ignore the fan base is if he'd repeatedly tried to contact them, with no response ever coming back to him. Since many of us know from personal experience that this doesn't happen, we know that the forum member probably never bothered to field a question or two to a game author. If he didn’t do that, then his statements had no basis in truth. But he made them anyway, didn’t he? (3) That forum member has been here a long time, based on his profile. Add to that the length of time all of the Ask Rich Baker Threads have existed as well as Kuje31's longtime (and admirable) efforts to connect Realms-curious people in just about any sub-Forum on this website to the information in his signature compiled from the Questions for Ed Greenwood threads at Candlekeep. Now reflect on this in light of the forum member's claim that Official Realms designers don't answer fan questions on this (or other) websites. It's my view that it is far, far more likely the forum member in question has seen the Rich Baker thread or a link to Ed's responses at least once (if not more than once, given that he’s posted on the Realms Forums before) than he's never seen either at all. All of this serves to make even more outrageous his initial claim, because there's plenty of reason to believe the forum member knew what he was writing wasn't true. Dave –end part 1– M.
Edymnion 06-19-05, 04:42 PM	I hope that if any of you see such false statements like the one above on other forums on this website you’ll calmly and rationally point out why they are false and give proof (as I did, later in that thread) that proves what you are saying is true.Calmly and Rationally? You went off on me, claiming I was intentionally trying to destroy the campaign setting and maliciously spreading missinformation. Calmly and rationally would be to ask someone why they have the opinion that they do, not go on a page long rant. *holds up his copy of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting* I actually play in BOTH settings. One of my all time favorite characters is a Realms character. The OPINION that I gave is the opinion I have developed over the years. I have never had any of the core minds of the Forgotten Realms sit down and chat with me about random stuff. I have never had Ed volunteer his home address so I could send him my Forgotten Realms book to be autographed. Whenever I have tried to get in contact with one of the top guys, all I ever got were form letters and "What do you want?" type responces. I have a perfectly good reason to have my opinion. I play both settings, both settings are very nice, but the Realms have given me the cold shoulder one time too many for me to tell other people that its known for being actively helpful in settling new players and DMs in.
Alac Luin 06-19-05, 07:05 PM	This is funny, On these boards, I've "chatted" with Rich Baker about what music he listens to. I was glad to find out he is Blue Oyster Cult fan. I just recently had some seemingly silly questions about spellfire answered by Ed Greenwood himself. On these boards I've recieved information from Eric Boyd, Elain Cunningham (the later before the authors were drivin away with the novels), and other people involved with creation process of the realms, including Sean K. Reanolds defending "changes" I didn't like he made to the Realms. I'm not sure, but giving away a home adress is a bit much to ask.
FineasBoggs 06-19-05, 08:25 PM	There is a whole thread where you can go and ask questions about the realms and have it answered. To say that FR has given you the cold shoulder one too many times because Ed is so busy and so inundated with requests and questions and letters that he doesn't have time to answer them all is silly. Eberron is a new setting, and I'm sure Mr. Baker doesn't have THAT many slobbering fans picking and pestering him, so of course he has more time to do the things you obviously think are required of the authors to do for their readers. Personally, there are any number of other places I could ask quesions and have them answered by other fans. Chances are, any question I have has already been answered.
warlockco 06-19-05, 08:45 PM	The OPINION that I gave is the opinion I have developed over the years. I have never had any of the core minds of the Forgotten Realms sit down and chat with me about random stuff. I have never had Ed volunteer his home address so I could send him my Forgotten Realms book to be autographed. Whenever I have tried to get in contact with one of the top guys, all I ever got were form letters and "What do you want?" type responces. So you want Ed's Home Address? How about you start by posting YOUR Home Address on the Forums, see how long before you start getting all kinds of junk/bogus mail. I don't totally agree with Ed's policy of interacting only through intermediaries, but I can understand it. Especially if he has had bad encounters before. Plus, due to the NDA there are alot of things that Ed can't talk about and there are alot of people that can't take NO for an answer, even when told that to answer their question is a violation of the NDA. As to getting your copy of the FRCS signed by Ed, try going through WotC Customer Service, they might be able to help you out (doubtful, but the worse they can do is say No). Find out when he is due to appear at a Convention, and travel there to get it signed, or find out if anyone is going there, and see if they could do that for you.
GothicDan 06-19-05, 11:51 PM	I am just shocked at any statements about Ed's unapproachableness. Sure, he may work through intermediaries, but his actual tone of voice in his emails, his down-to-earthness, his approachableness (combined with a healthy dose of cheeky!) makes him absolutely at the top of my list of favorite game designers who is MORE than happy to provide us with answers, when he gets around to it. Look at Ed's answers in Kuje's signature. Look at how many of them there are, from his fans, and tell me that he gives his fans the cold shoulder. Look at how in depth they are, how much thought he has put into his world, and in his answers to his fans. I am shocked and offended that anyone would ever postulate such a thing about Ed Greenwood. And yes, this is coming from a person whose third favorite setting is Forgotten Realms.
Mr. FIXIT 06-20-05, 03:42 AM	Yeah, I agree with the above sentiments. There certainly does not seem to be a lack of available information nor official answers as far as the FR is concerned. Still, I would prefer civilized discussion over public burning any day of the week though... ;)
Ryltar Swordsong 06-20-05, 05:06 PM	All I'm saying is these forums play host to people who are longtime regulars that enjoy their status and use it to go out of their way heap crap on what they don't like. "Longtime regulars" do not have any status. If you accord them status because of their join date, post count, or any other stupid reason then that is your error. Anyone who thinks that they are "elite" because of those same reasons is a fool. All I'm asking is for those who see such crap to disprove it, because yes, it can and will disuade new fans from the Realms. Every poster is free to express their opinion. Every poster is free to express a contrary opinion. Edy expressed his. How he came to his opinion is his business. It's up to each individual to decide which opinion they prefer. The Realms are hardly in jeopardy because of Eberron. The Realms survived the plethora of settings put out by T$R. Now it's just the Realms and Eberron. In 2005, there are 3 times as many Realms releases as Eberron. Not a sign of impending doom for the Realms.
Iron Cobra 06-20-05, 06:35 PM	If anything, the release of Waterdeep proves the quality of Realms books is on the rise (despite shrinking page counts)
Meta_FR_DM 06-20-05, 08:37 PM	"Longtime regulars" do not have any status. If you accord them status because of their join date, post count, or any other stupid reason then that is your error. I wouldn't call the base expectation that longtime regulars should know what is and isn't on the website they regularly frequent as status. I would call evidence that newer forum members look to certain other members (particularly longtime members) for advice and opinions as a form of status. The error would be in pretending people don't do that, when they actually do. Anyone who thinks that they are "elite" because of those same reasons is a fool. "Elite" is hardly the term I'd use to describe some of the longtime regulars around here, especially those that can't come up with anything better than name-calling for their contribution to a discussion. Every poster is free to express their opinion.Actually no, they're not. Having an opinion isn't excuse enough to air it, particularly one that's uninformed. To claim otherwise is to say, "I think my 12-year old mentality is good enough for me, so it should be good enough for you, even though we're both adults. If not, **** off." The Realms are hardly in jeopardy because of Eberron. I already covered this; it's not the key issue at all. But thanks for reading the entire thread before posting! :rolleyes: Dave M.
GothicDan 06-20-05, 09:31 PM	Actually no, they're not. Having an opinion isn't excuse enough to air it, particularly one that's uninformed. To claim otherwise is to say, "I think my 12-year old mentality is good enough for me, so it should be good enough for you, even though we're both adults. If not, **** off." And that's your opinion, is it not? Note that there is a difference between can and should. We all can express our opinions. Should all of us express our opinions? Many of the most liberal-minded folks would say "Yes." Despite the fact that I am an atheistic homosexual, I do not fall into that category, so my answer is a resounding "No."
Kyle_the_DM 06-20-05, 09:54 PM	This is funny, On these boards, I've "chatted" with Rich Baker about what music he listens to. I was glad to find out he is Blue Oyster Cult fan. w00t! Anyway, just from reading some of the earlier posts, I agree that some people new to the Realms have a negative initial opinion. My initial opinion was a poor one and for a number of reasons. 1) As a DM I felt that FR had way too much history that I had to learn. 2) I always felt that the epic level NPC's would present a sort of deus ex machina whenever the world needed saved. 3) I didn't really like the way magic was set up. Now however, I love FR. I enjoy being a FR DM and I don't really want to play anything else. I think it's important to prevent people from spreading misinformation because the people they turn away are missing out on something great. :twocents: Kyle
Mystery Man 06-20-05, 10:17 PM	Calmly and Rationally? You went off on me, claiming I was intentionally trying to destroy the campaign setting and maliciously spreading missinformation. Calmly and rationally would be to ask someone why they have the opinion that they do, not go on a page long rant. *holds up his copy of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting* I actually play in BOTH settings. One of my all time favorite characters is a Realms character. The OPINION that I gave is the opinion I have developed over the years. I have never had any of the core minds of the Forgotten Realms sit down and chat with me about random stuff. I have never had Ed volunteer his home address so I could send him my Forgotten Realms book to be autographed. Whenever I have tried to get in contact with one of the top guys, all I ever got were form letters and "What do you want?" type responces. I have a perfectly good reason to have my opinion. I play both settings, both settings are very nice, but the Realms have given me the cold shoulder one time too many for me to tell other people that its known for being actively helpful in settling new players and DMs in. I'm a long time Realms fan and have always, since I've been on the internet ins some shape or form since 1994 recieved awsome advice and guidance from countless people regarding just about anything Realmsian. Maybe it's you?
Ryltar Swordsong 06-20-05, 10:20 PM	I wouldn't call the base expectation that longtime regulars should know what is and isn't on the website they regularly frequent as status.I've been coming to this website nearly everyday since Sep 2001, and I couldn't tell you what's on several boards. I read the forums that interest me, and ignore the rest. By your logic, you expect me to know what's on the M:tG boards, the RPGA boards, the Birthright boards, and so on. I don't. I would call evidence that newer forum members look to certain other members (particularly longtime members) for advice and opinions as a form of status. The error would be in pretending people don't do that, when they actually do. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But it is each person's choice who they accord "status". Hopefully, they are doing so by the post content, not length of registration. There are those I respect, but they have earned my respect with their post content. "Status" shouldn't be automatically given because of join date. "Elite" is hardly the term I'd use to describe some of the longtime regulars around here, especially those that can't come up with anything better than name-calling for their contribution to a discussion. I don't consider anyone here elite. I said that anyone who considered themselves to be elite was a fool. And who exactly was name-calling? Actually no, they're not. Having an opinion isn't excuse enough to air it, particularly one that's uninformed. Actually, yes they are. If you disagree with their opinion, that's fine. Hopefully, there can be mature debate over differences of opinion. If you feel someone is uninformed, discuss that with them. Don't attack like you have been. But thanks for reading the entire thread before posting! :rolleyes: Oooh, sarcasm. FYI, I did read the whole thead. I merely commented on the parts that I felt inclined to.
Bocklin 06-21-05, 03:51 AM	The OPINION that I gave is the opinion I have developed over the years. I have never had any of the core minds of the Forgotten Realms sit down and chat with me about random stuff. I have never had Ed volunteer his home address so I could send him my Forgotten Realms book to be autographed. So because a designer does not discuss non setting-related stuff with you and does not provide you with extra services like autographing you are claiming that you cannot get any in-setting support from the authors/designers?? Sounds like a strange logic to me... I do not expect Rich Baker, Eric L. Boyd or Ed Greenwood to invite me for a barbecue at their place, but I know that whenever I need some clarification about the setting I can get it for sure and easily, either through this Board or through Candlepkeep. That's what matters, isn't it? Bocklin
warlockco 06-21-05, 04:41 AM	So because a designer does not discuss non setting-related stuff with you and does not provide you with extra services like autographing you are claiming that you cannot get any in-setting support from the authors/designers?? Sounds like a strange logic to me... I do not expect Rich Baker, Eric L. Boy or Ed Greenwood to invite me for a barbecue at their place, but I know that whenever I need some clarification about the setting I can get it for sure and easily either through this Board or through Candlepkeep. That's what matters, isn't it? Bocklin :clap:
Iron Cobra 06-21-05, 06:57 AM	:clap:
Kuje31 06-21-05, 11:21 AM	I thought this was relevant to this, Ed said this as part of a reply on May 23rd of last year, "Of course I sign books for fans, at conventions and bookstore signings and the like, but please never, NEVER mail me a book in hopes of getting it signed. Somewhere in the Post Offal lurks a Realms book-collecting fairy, humming happily as her collection grows . . . and grows . . . Seriously, the things never reach me; they always vanish without trace."
Shemeska the Marauder 06-21-05, 12:29 PM	Does this entire thread have any relevance to the Realms at all outside of you going after a post by a person you don't seem to like? Without comment on the substance of you post that you're linking to, this is really just a bit tasteless. Was a PM between you and him not good enough, or was it absolutely required to drag this out into public?
WizO_Sith 06-21-05, 01:07 PM	Trolling and Flaming are violations of the Wizards Online Code of Conduct (http://www.wizards.com/coc). This thread will be locked. Do not restart it. *Click*