Doom of Daggerdale & Sword of the Dales [Archive] - Wizards Community

Doom of Daggerdale & Sword of the Dales [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Francius
07-18-05, 05:10 PM Hello citizens of the Realms.
I 'm an Italian guy typing from Rome.
I 've been playing D&D since 1995 and by the same time i was introduced to the FR world as well.
Recently i found at a hobby store the Sword of the Dales Trilogy.Needless to say i bought all of the three books and tried to tie their adventures with the Doom of Daggerdale ones.
The strange thing is that Doom happens while Tren is still the constable of Dagger Falls whilst the sword trilogy shows Malyk as the constable although the books were written later(Doom in 1993 and Sword in 1995).Strange fact still is that Randal Morn killed Malyk in 1353 DR and in 1369 DR he reclaimed Dagger Falls.

Has anybody been deeper into this sory and explain me what the real story of Daggerdale is and in which order should these four adventure be played?
Faraer
07-18-05, 06:12 PM Where in the trilogy is Malyk said to be the constable?

The timeline is something like:
?-1316 DR: Morn family rules Daggerdale
1316: Malyk rules Daggerdale (after the fall of Teshendale); Morns go into hiding
1336: Zhent rule of Daggerdale consolidated
1353: Randal Morn slays Malyk
1353?-13xx: Tren Noemfor constable of Dagger Falls (FRQ3)
13xx-1369: Guthbert Golthammer second and last constable of Dagger Falls, Ilthond (from Spellfire) his Zhentarim superior
1369: Randal Morn regains Daggerdale

I don't think an exact date for FRQ3 has been set. In my opinion, it's dramatically very weak for the trilogy to conclude with the PCs retaking Daggerdale almost by accident, when Randal's fought for it for decades. Not that the PCs shouldn't do it, but they should work for it and do it on purpose!

Here's more from Ed:Colderan Morn, the Mage-Lord (who ruled Daggerdale over a century ago) married Belesaria Arfeather, who was poisoned by his drow “allies.” Her death enraged and embittered Colderan, who presumed his young son Belard (who simply vanished at the time of Belesaria’s murder) had been murdered. His spells never found any trace of Belard, who’d been spirited away by the drow to be held captive and used in bargaining to ensure Colderan’s obedience - - but promptly “rescued” from the dark elves by certain Harpers, including Elminster and Storm, to keep him hidden from both the drow and Colderan, and rear him with none of Colderan’s cruel tyranny.

Belard “Crownthorn” never knew his true heritage. A hardy, energetic, and amiable youth, he was raised as a Harper in Secomber, Everlund, and the lands between, by the Crownthorn ranger family. While serving with the Harpers, Belard met, loved, and wed a fellow Harper, a commoner from Firefall Vale by the name of Danathra Ilkwood.

After being sorely wounded in winter skirmishes with trolls, Belard and Danathra retired from active Harper service to Deepingdale, where they became coopers (and were much enriched by trade with Harpers in need of good kegs and barrels) and had a son and a daughter, Flars and Yethtrae.

When winter-fever killed Danathra, the grieving Belard went wolf-hunting, taking increasingly reckless risks until he met his end in the woods nigh Myth Drannor, fighting something far deadlier than a wolf. By then Harpers posing as brigands had “captured” Flars (then a young lad) and Yethtrae (scarcely more than a toddler).

Yethtrae they carried off to Waterdeep, where she was taken in by the Elondar family of scribes and raised as their own. She married the scribe she was apprenticed to, and as “Yethtrae Delraven,” she’s still alive today, as a respected, retired, elderly and frail accomplished scribe, bookbinder, and artist, with only faint memories of her childhood. Yethtrae and Deraun Delraven have two daughters, Elessra and Ilimbara, but no sons. (The Harpers regard this branch of the family as a ‘backup’ in case the Morn bloodline descending through Flars becomes extinct).

Flars was raised as a minstrel and forester (ranger) by Harpers of the Heartlands, who ranged along the western verges of the High Forest. On a rare visit to Silverymoon, he met Maerindra Elrproast, a young weaver of Amn brought to the Gem of the North by Ultos Dreahond, a crooked and lecherous Athkatlan weaver who’d hoped to make his fortune there but had fallen into Silvaeren disfavour and swiftly lost nigh-everything.

Flars and Maerindra were smitten by each other on sight, in a true “match made by the gods,” and were wed in a matter of days. Draehond was living on the dwindling prentice-fee paid to him by Maerindra’s parents, and tried to have her hunted and brought back to his custody on the (false) grounds that he was her bonded guardian. Harpers took advantage of the hunt to swoop in, spirit Flars and Maerindra away from the city, reveal his heritage to the dumbstruck Flars, and offer to assist them in reclaiming Daggerdale.

To make a long tale short, Flars accepted, Daggerdale was wrested from the various outlaws (supported by various lords of Zhentil Keep, many of whom were sponsoring various lawless “blade bands” to gain them wealth in the area, and keep all thrones weak, and lands perilous and troubled, except Zhentil Keep itself) who were ruling bits and pieces of it, and House Morn was restored to their rightful lands.

Flars and Maerindra had two children, Randal (named for Maerindra’s grandsire) and his younger sister Silver (named for Silverymoon), who grew to adolescence before Flars and Maerindra were brutally slain by Zhent hireswords seeking to install puppet lordlings in Daggerdale.

Once again the Harpers rode to the rescue, and Randal grew to manhood fighting alongside them to regain Daggerdale and scour out both his own lands and the valley of the Tesh (Zhentish ‘mercenary encampment’ territory by then, from which Zhent-sponsored warbands raided all surrounding lands).

They succeeded—thrice, the “last” time decisively, and the Harpers persuaded Randal Morn (who hated ruling, but loved wandering and fighting) to go adventuring in the Sword Coast lands under the direction of Khelben Blackstaff (I’ll say a little more about that in a later answer) and leave his sister Silver Morn as Lady of Daggerdale, ruling in his name until his return. (Again, the Harpers were cold-bloodedly separating the siblings in hopes of keeping Randal alive and to hasten his fathering of children of his own.)

The Zhents swept in again, with sizable armies this time, and overran Daggerdale. Silver Morn went into hiding (to prevent being forcibly married to the Zhentarim-installed “Lord of Daggerdale”), and Randal had to leave off his life of adventuring and come riding back to win his dale AGAIN - - with the Harpers both weakened and busy on many fronts, and greater wars about to descend on the Dales.
Francius
07-18-05, 06:43 PM Thanks for the reply.

I presume that with the end of the "Return of R.Morn" adventure the timedate is set in 1369.In Doom FRQ3, the PCs just manage to free it from the plague,no attempt to free it from Zhent rule.

After the death of his sister Silver,Randal rode back to Daggerdale and we can say that this campaign of his to retake Daggerdale begun in 1336 or shortly after that date.(official Zhent occupation of Daggerdale).Then with the TSR 9488 module,Daggerfalls is freed form Zhents and the whole Daggerdale area for extension.

Tren took over after Malyk was slain by Randal.Guthbert substituted Tren.Ok,so the order in which the adventures are displayed is correct. By whom did Tren meet his end?

The quotes from Ed:were they pubblished in a Dragon or Dungeon magazine?Do i have to read some novel in order to find out more about the young Randal and the Morns in general?
Kuje31
07-18-05, 07:05 PM The quotes from Ed:were they pubblished in a Dragon or Dungeon magazine?Do i have to read some novel in order to find out more about the young Randal and the Morns in general?

Ed has discussed Silver Morn recently, see my 05 file in my sig and do a search/find for Morn. :) Or you can read my stickied thread at the top of this forum, since it has a table of contents by date.
Faraer
07-18-05, 07:09 PM Yes, Jim Butler's trilogy is set in 1369; this was stated in Volo's Guide to the Dalelands.

Silver Morn wasn't slain, that was Randal's parents. Not sure exactly when Randal starts fighting to retake Daggerdale.

Malyk hasn't been named as the constable of Dagger Falls; likely his role was more senior, since the later constables are mere Zhent pawns. We don't know for sure that Tren was appointed at once: he might have been, or might have had a predecessor. I don't believe Tren's replacement by Guthbert has been detailed.

The quote is from one of Ed's posts to the candlekeep.com message boards. Check Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, but there's no detailed source on the Morns, though quite a few scattered references. This, for instance, from The Seven Sisters:[Randal Morn] and his trusted aides frequently slip into and out of Shadowdale in disguise to confer with Storm. (These aides include a lady named Shree, the shapechanging sorceress of Spiderhaunt Wood, who is a magical human-doppleganger half-breed and Randal Morn's intimate companion, and Talath Hawksund, a Harper ranger Storm trained, who has become the love of Randal Morn's sister Silver Morn.)
Francius
07-18-05, 07:23 PM Well, you said that [PHP]the Harpers persuaded Randal Morn (who hated ruling, but loved wandering and fighting) to go adventuring in the Sword Coast lands under the direction of Khelben Blackstaff (I’ll say a little more about that in a later answer) and leave his sister Silver Morn as Lady of Daggerdale, ruling in his name until his return. (Again, the Harpers were cold-bloodedly separating the siblings in hopes of keeping Randal alive and to hasten his fathering of children of his own.)

The Zhents swept in again, with sizable armies this time, and overran Daggerdale. Silver Morn went into hiding (to prevent being forcibly married to the Zhentarim-installed “Lord of Daggerdale”), and Randal had to leave off his life of adventuring and come riding back to win his dale AGAIN - - with the Harpers both weakened and busy on many fronts, and greater wars about to descend on the Dales.[PHP]

In the aforementioned adventures Silver is not mentioned anywhere and when Malyk took up Daggerfalls he either killed her or drove her out.I believe the latter is the case 'cause Silver isn't even mentioned when the PCs retake Daggerdale alongside Randal in "the return of R.Morn".
Faraer
07-19-05, 01:33 PM We just don't know the exact dates of the events referred to in the last three quoted paragraphs (but feel free to ask Ed on candlekeep.com). In any case, Silver Morn has not been killed; she's alive in the 'current' official timeline. Bear in mind that the four modules in question are not the greatest (or the worst) for reliable Realmslore.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Francius 07-18-05, 05:10 PM	Hello citizens of the Realms. I 'm an Italian guy typing from Rome. I 've been playing D&D since 1995 and by the same time i was introduced to the FR world as well. Recently i found at a hobby store the Sword of the Dales Trilogy.Needless to say i bought all of the three books and tried to tie their adventures with the Doom of Daggerdale ones. The strange thing is that Doom happens while Tren is still the constable of Dagger Falls whilst the sword trilogy shows Malyk as the constable although the books were written later(Doom in 1993 and Sword in 1995).Strange fact still is that Randal Morn killed Malyk in 1353 DR and in 1369 DR he reclaimed Dagger Falls. Has anybody been deeper into this sory and explain me what the real story of Daggerdale is and in which order should these four adventure be played?
Faraer 07-18-05, 06:12 PM	Where in the trilogy is Malyk said to be the constable? The timeline is something like: ?-1316 DR: Morn family rules Daggerdale 1316: Malyk rules Daggerdale (after the fall of Teshendale); Morns go into hiding 1336: Zhent rule of Daggerdale consolidated 1353: Randal Morn slays Malyk 1353?-13xx: Tren Noemfor constable of Dagger Falls (FRQ3) 13xx-1369: Guthbert Golthammer second and last constable of Dagger Falls, Ilthond (from Spellfire) his Zhentarim superior 1369: Randal Morn regains Daggerdale I don't think an exact date for FRQ3 has been set. In my opinion, it's dramatically very weak for the trilogy to conclude with the PCs retaking Daggerdale almost by accident, when Randal's fought for it for decades. Not that the PCs shouldn't do it, but they should work for it and do it on purpose! Here's more from Ed:Colderan Morn, the Mage-Lord (who ruled Daggerdale over a century ago) married Belesaria Arfeather, who was poisoned by his drow “allies.” Her death enraged and embittered Colderan, who presumed his young son Belard (who simply vanished at the time of Belesaria’s murder) had been murdered. His spells never found any trace of Belard, who’d been spirited away by the drow to be held captive and used in bargaining to ensure Colderan’s obedience - - but promptly “rescued” from the dark elves by certain Harpers, including Elminster and Storm, to keep him hidden from both the drow and Colderan, and rear him with none of Colderan’s cruel tyranny. Belard “Crownthorn” never knew his true heritage. A hardy, energetic, and amiable youth, he was raised as a Harper in Secomber, Everlund, and the lands between, by the Crownthorn ranger family. While serving with the Harpers, Belard met, loved, and wed a fellow Harper, a commoner from Firefall Vale by the name of Danathra Ilkwood. After being sorely wounded in winter skirmishes with trolls, Belard and Danathra retired from active Harper service to Deepingdale, where they became coopers (and were much enriched by trade with Harpers in need of good kegs and barrels) and had a son and a daughter, Flars and Yethtrae. When winter-fever killed Danathra, the grieving Belard went wolf-hunting, taking increasingly reckless risks until he met his end in the woods nigh Myth Drannor, fighting something far deadlier than a wolf. By then Harpers posing as brigands had “captured” Flars (then a young lad) and Yethtrae (scarcely more than a toddler). Yethtrae they carried off to Waterdeep, where she was taken in by the Elondar family of scribes and raised as their own. She married the scribe she was apprenticed to, and as “Yethtrae Delraven,” she’s still alive today, as a respected, retired, elderly and frail accomplished scribe, bookbinder, and artist, with only faint memories of her childhood. Yethtrae and Deraun Delraven have two daughters, Elessra and Ilimbara, but no sons. (The Harpers regard this branch of the family as a ‘backup’ in case the Morn bloodline descending through Flars becomes extinct). Flars was raised as a minstrel and forester (ranger) by Harpers of the Heartlands, who ranged along the western verges of the High Forest. On a rare visit to Silverymoon, he met Maerindra Elrproast, a young weaver of Amn brought to the Gem of the North by Ultos Dreahond, a crooked and lecherous Athkatlan weaver who’d hoped to make his fortune there but had fallen into Silvaeren disfavour and swiftly lost nigh-everything. Flars and Maerindra were smitten by each other on sight, in a true “match made by the gods,” and were wed in a matter of days. Draehond was living on the dwindling prentice-fee paid to him by Maerindra’s parents, and tried to have her hunted and brought back to his custody on the (false) grounds that he was her bonded guardian. Harpers took advantage of the hunt to swoop in, spirit Flars and Maerindra away from the city, reveal his heritage to the dumbstruck Flars, and offer to assist them in reclaiming Daggerdale. To make a long tale short, Flars accepted, Daggerdale was wrested from the various outlaws (supported by various lords of Zhentil Keep, many of whom were sponsoring various lawless “blade bands” to gain them wealth in the area, and keep all thrones weak, and lands perilous and troubled, except Zhentil Keep itself) who were ruling bits and pieces of it, and House Morn was restored to their rightful lands. Flars and Maerindra had two children, Randal (named for Maerindra’s grandsire) and his younger sister Silver (named for Silverymoon), who grew to adolescence before Flars and Maerindra were brutally slain by Zhent hireswords seeking to install puppet lordlings in Daggerdale. Once again the Harpers rode to the rescue, and Randal grew to manhood fighting alongside them to regain Daggerdale and scour out both his own lands and the valley of the Tesh (Zhentish ‘mercenary encampment’ territory by then, from which Zhent-sponsored warbands raided all surrounding lands). They succeeded—thrice, the “last” time decisively, and the Harpers persuaded Randal Morn (who hated ruling, but loved wandering and fighting) to go adventuring in the Sword Coast lands under the direction of Khelben Blackstaff (I’ll say a little more about that in a later answer) and leave his sister Silver Morn as Lady of Daggerdale, ruling in his name until his return. (Again, the Harpers were cold-bloodedly separating the siblings in hopes of keeping Randal alive and to hasten his fathering of children of his own.) The Zhents swept in again, with sizable armies this time, and overran Daggerdale. Silver Morn went into hiding (to prevent being forcibly married to the Zhentarim-installed “Lord of Daggerdale”), and Randal had to leave off his life of adventuring and come riding back to win his dale AGAIN - - with the Harpers both weakened and busy on many fronts, and greater wars about to descend on the Dales.
Francius 07-18-05, 06:43 PM	Thanks for the reply. I presume that with the end of the "Return of R.Morn" adventure the timedate is set in 1369.In Doom FRQ3, the PCs just manage to free it from the plague,no attempt to free it from Zhent rule. After the death of his sister Silver,Randal rode back to Daggerdale and we can say that this campaign of his to retake Daggerdale begun in 1336 or shortly after that date.(official Zhent occupation of Daggerdale).Then with the TSR 9488 module,Daggerfalls is freed form Zhents and the whole Daggerdale area for extension. Tren took over after Malyk was slain by Randal.Guthbert substituted Tren.Ok,so the order in which the adventures are displayed is correct. By whom did Tren meet his end? The quotes from Ed:were they pubblished in a Dragon or Dungeon magazine?Do i have to read some novel in order to find out more about the young Randal and the Morns in general?
Kuje31 07-18-05, 07:05 PM	The quotes from Ed:were they pubblished in a Dragon or Dungeon magazine?Do i have to read some novel in order to find out more about the young Randal and the Morns in general? Ed has discussed Silver Morn recently, see my 05 file in my sig and do a search/find for Morn. :) Or you can read my stickied thread at the top of this forum, since it has a table of contents by date.
Faraer 07-18-05, 07:09 PM	Yes, Jim Butler's trilogy is set in 1369; this was stated in Volo's Guide to the Dalelands. Silver Morn wasn't slain, that was Randal's parents. Not sure exactly when Randal starts fighting to retake Daggerdale. Malyk hasn't been named as the constable of Dagger Falls; likely his role was more senior, since the later constables are mere Zhent pawns. We don't know for sure that Tren was appointed at once: he might have been, or might have had a predecessor. I don't believe Tren's replacement by Guthbert has been detailed. The quote is from one of Ed's posts to the candlekeep.com message boards. Check Volo's Guide to the Dalelands, but there's no detailed source on the Morns, though quite a few scattered references. This, for instance, from The Seven Sisters:[Randal Morn] and his trusted aides frequently slip into and out of Shadowdale in disguise to confer with Storm. (These aides include a lady named Shree, the shapechanging sorceress of Spiderhaunt Wood, who is a magical human-doppleganger half-breed and Randal Morn's intimate companion, and Talath Hawksund, a Harper ranger Storm trained, who has become the love of Randal Morn's sister Silver Morn.)
Francius 07-18-05, 07:23 PM	Well, you said that [PHP]the Harpers persuaded Randal Morn (who hated ruling, but loved wandering and fighting) to go adventuring in the Sword Coast lands under the direction of Khelben Blackstaff (I’ll say a little more about that in a later answer) and leave his sister Silver Morn as Lady of Daggerdale, ruling in his name until his return. (Again, the Harpers were cold-bloodedly separating the siblings in hopes of keeping Randal alive and to hasten his fathering of children of his own.) The Zhents swept in again, with sizable armies this time, and overran Daggerdale. Silver Morn went into hiding (to prevent being forcibly married to the Zhentarim-installed “Lord of Daggerdale”), and Randal had to leave off his life of adventuring and come riding back to win his dale AGAIN - - with the Harpers both weakened and busy on many fronts, and greater wars about to descend on the Dales.[PHP] In the aforementioned adventures Silver is not mentioned anywhere and when Malyk took up Daggerfalls he either killed her or drove her out.I believe the latter is the case 'cause Silver isn't even mentioned when the PCs retake Daggerdale alongside Randal in "the return of R.Morn".
Faraer 07-19-05, 01:33 PM	We just don't know the exact dates of the events referred to in the last three quoted paragraphs (but feel free to ask Ed on candlekeep.com). In any case, Silver Morn has not been killed; she's alive in the 'current' official timeline. Bear in mind that the four modules in question are not the greatest (or the worst) for reliable Realmslore.