| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Chloramantis08-07-06, 09:36 PM | Dragons of Faerun is probably one of the best yet! I can't believe the list of dragons in the back of the book. Info on Chessenta, Threskel, and Unther is great. Bravo! |
| EytanBernstein08-07-06, 09:57 PM | Thanks. I'm still not entirely sure where it's been released. It's not become available in my local book stores on Long Island. I know it will be at Gen Con, though. |
| Yokinobu08-08-06, 02:26 AM | I think it was an admirable piece of work as well. However I did post a long whiney rant at Candlekeep, about what I wanted in it and didn't find, and I think most people ignored it. (I wouldn't blame them :) ) Most what I was dissappointed and confused about was the artwork. It almost entirely depicted Chromatic and Metallic dragons, which there is already plenty of art for thanks to Dragon/Dungeon Magazine, Draconomicon, and other sourcebooks. There was only one piece of a gem dragon, and that looked almost exactly like the presentation in MMII, only one piece depicting a Faerunian dragon(a fang dragon), and only ONE of the THREE new true dragons was graced by representative artwork, the other two of which we still have no real clue what they look like in 3E beyond their vague description(unless you count the Confluence emblem). I didn't point any fingers partly because pointing is rude, but mainly because I know nothing about commissioning artists to do cetain pieces of artwork. The only justification for this I can come up with is the fact that, due to existing artwork, the artists had a much better idea of how to go about metallic and chromatic dragons, but somebody's gotta pioneer the new ones. ;) |
| EytanBernstein08-08-06, 04:20 AM | I can't really comment on the artwork. As designers, we do submit some of our ideas for snazzy pieces of art, but ultimately, it is up to the artists and the others who have final say. I happen to like most of the art in the book. |
| Yokinobu08-08-06, 05:18 AM | Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally agree that most of what's in there is great. I just felt other types could have gotten some much needed representation as well. |
| sweetmisery08-08-06, 07:14 AM | Is this mostly based on gaming material(stats, and such) or background of dragons? I mean, which is more? Cuz due to my business, I dont have time yet to play yet, but interested in reading it. |
| Chloramantis08-08-06, 11:17 AM | Is this mostly based on gaming material(stats, and such) or background of dragons? I mean, which is more? Cuz due to my business, I dont have time yet to play yet, but interested in reading it. Good background material! That's the stuff I love, for I don't play so I love reading everything Forgotten Realms!!! That's probably why I still like 2E? |
| yarethon08-08-06, 11:55 AM | I don't have the book yet, but now i want it ehhehe |
| Derren S.08-08-06, 12:31 PM | Its interesting to see (from the excerpts) that draconic deities are so prominent in the book. But am I correct that they are still as weak as in the Draconimicon and without a greater god? And looking at the map-a-week aren't the lairs a bit small? I know page count etc. but dragons are supposed to have big, elaborate and dangerous lairs full of traps, but those lairs are nothing more then a big room with a dragon in it. Some questions: Are there 3.5 stats for Song dragons in the book? 3.5 stats of gem dragons which reference the XPH? Any mention how the Dragon Ascendant PRC interacts with AOs "I havve to approve every deity" rule? |
| yarethon08-08-06, 12:36 PM | Any mention how the Dragon Ascendant PRC interacts with AOs "I havve to approve every deity" rule? Good question I would like to know that myself |
| johnnype08-08-06, 05:20 PM | Are there 3.5 stats for Song dragons in the book? 3.5 stats of gem dragons which reference the XPH? I don't think they update gem dragons at all although from what I saw, the book does include a page or so on a particular gem dragon (crystal I think). I don't remeber seeing any stats for it though. The section is more about its territory and goals. As far as song dragons are concerned, they do receive an update of sorts but it's just a paragraph at the bottom of the page. Two other types of dragons are updated as well (I can't remember which). BTW, what book did song dragons first show up? |
| allenchan08-08-06, 11:47 PM | I just picked up the book, and have a quick question... what the heck is a drow-dragon? There are some listed in the appendix, but I havent been able to find any more information on -what- they are. |
| ericlboyd08-09-06, 12:13 AM | I just picked up the book, and have a quick question... what the heck is a drow-dragon? There are some listed in the appendix, but I havent been able to find any more information on -what- they are. THere's a sidebar in Chapter 1 that defines them. You'll see a lot more on drow-dragons in the web enhancement. --Eric |
| EytanBernstein08-09-06, 01:06 AM | I don't think they update gem dragons at all although from what I saw, the book does include a page or so on a particular gem dragon (crystal I think). I don't remeber seeing any stats for it though. The section is more about its territory and goals. As far as song dragons are concerned, they do receive an update of sorts but it's just a paragraph at the bottom of the page. Two other types of dragons are updated as well (I can't remember which). BTW, what book did song dragons first show up? There isn't an update of gem dragons, but there is a set of stats for a gem dragon and a gem dracolich. |
| EytanBernstein08-09-06, 01:07 AM | Its interesting to see (from the excerpts) that draconic deities are so prominent in the book. But am I correct that they are still as weak as in the Draconimicon and without a greater god? And looking at the map-a-week aren't the lairs a bit small? I know page count etc. but dragons are supposed to have big, elaborate and dangerous lairs full of traps, but those lairs are nothing more then a big room with a dragon in it. Some questions: Are there 3.5 stats for Song dragons in the book? 3.5 stats of gem dragons which reference the XPH? Any mention how the Dragon Ascendant PRC interacts with AOs "I havve to approve every deity" rule? The first map Antasillix's lair is small because he's only a large dragon. His lair is an abandoned bathouse. |
| Derren S.08-09-06, 01:29 AM | BTW, what book did song dragons first show up? Monsters of Faerun and so far that has been the only book that mentions them. |
| GothicDan08-09-06, 03:06 AM | Song Dragons have been around since 2E, where they were first known as Weredragons. |
| Faraer08-09-06, 10:37 AM | I think weredragons/song dragons were first mentioned in FR7 Hall of Heroes (1989; a 1E/2E cusp product with the 2E logo but 1E contents). |
| Derren S.08-09-06, 10:40 AM | Weren't Weredragons humans who could turn into dragons? If yes then they were very different from the Song dragons we have now. |
| Faraer08-09-06, 10:44 AM | No -- thought by some to be, but in fact "a race of dragonkind that can assume female human form whenever desired" (FA1 p. 47). |
| allenchan08-09-06, 06:17 PM | THere's a sidebar in Chapter 1 that defines them. You'll see a lot more on drow-dragons in the web enhancement. --Eric Sigh. I really wish wotc could reliably make ToCs with sidebars listed, or have an index. Thanks, in any case :) |
| Krash08-09-06, 07:53 PM | I think weredragons/song dragons were first mentioned in FR7 Hall of Heroes (1989; a 1E/2E cusp product with the 2E logo but 1E contents). Actually, Ed first showcased them in a Dragon magazine monster article. One of the creature catalogs ...? -- George Krashos |
| GothicDan08-09-06, 08:59 PM | Krash knows all. |
| Faraer08-09-06, 10:59 PM | Right, #134, "The Dragon's Bestiary", along with the fang dragon. I was blanking on Dragons entirely when I posted that. |
| runestar08-09-06, 11:43 PM | Yeah, but now, there are apparently male song dragons now, so I doubt wotc is following 2ed lore too closely... :rolleyes: |
| Yokinobu08-10-06, 01:10 AM | Well, they gotta reproduce somehow right? I mean, since they aren't really were-dragons... Then again, I've never heard of a male song dragon, and the fact that ALL of them naturally transform into females is kinda odd. Makes you wonder how a half-song dragon half-human could possibly have a song dragon father if he didn't have access to polymorph spells... :P |
| BrianCritchley08-10-06, 07:22 PM | Yeah, but now, there are apparently male song dragons now, so I doubt wotc is following 2ed lore too closely... yeah god forbid WOTC realize that an entire species that is just one gender isn't gonna work and thus change it. |
| Ardashir08-10-06, 07:38 PM | Yeah, but now, there are apparently male song dragons now, so I doubt wotc is following 2ed lore too closely... :rolleyes: I thought they reproduced by mating with either male dragons or male humanoids. |
| GothicDan08-10-06, 07:47 PM | yeah god forbid WOTC realize that an entire species that is just one gender isn't gonna work and thus change it. You mean like nymphs? Yes, I love how they arbitrarily changed that lore! And, as previously noted, Song Dragons/Weredragons bred with males of other species. FANTASY. :) |
| Derren S.08-11-06, 01:21 AM | Haven't I read somewhere that Song dragons mate with Copper dragons? But I am not sure. |
| yarethon08-11-06, 03:15 AM | Yes, I love how they arbitrarily changed that lore! Yeah I "love" that also "sniff" I will start a campaign "let the song dragons mate with other species... that is very cool" |
| Ombre08-11-06, 04:17 AM | As far as I'm concerned, my first encounter with a song-dragon/Were-Dragon, as a DM,was inHalls of the High King, an action-packed adventure set in the Moonshaes... Is the part about Chessenta interesting, I mean background-wise on things other than purely dragon-related ? (side question, even if it's not necessarily the right place: does anybody know of a good address to get roleplaying games in New York City?) |
| EytanBernstein08-12-06, 02:42 AM | As far as I'm concerned, my first encounter with a song-dragon/Were-Dragon, as a DM,was inHalls of the High King, an action-packed adventure set in the Moonshaes... Is the part about Chessenta interesting, I mean background-wise on things other than purely dragon-related ? (side question, even if it's not necessarily the right place: does anybody know of a good address to get roleplaying games in New York City?) Yes. Go to Neutral Ground - 122 West 26th Street. 4th fl. NY, NY 10001. |
| BrianCritchley08-13-06, 03:46 AM | You mean like nymphs? Yes, I love how they arbitrarily changed that lore! And, as previously noted, Song Dragons/Weredragons bred with males of other species. FANTASY. :) actually the passgae suggesting there are male song dragons also notes that even the males human form is female. (making finding a male song dragon a difficult prospect). |
| Yaeri08-15-06, 09:48 AM | I only just read the latest dragons of faerun excerpt and have a little question, since we're playing in Chessenta and have met Melissanda and Aeron Morieth in Cimbar. Are there a few details in the book about what happened to those characters? PS: I started the first campaign in Chessenta. Now someone else is DM'ing the same PC's through campaign 2, more in south-Chessenta and the Shaar. After his campaign I'm taking over the reigns again for campaign 3. And this new event with Tchazzar is certainly going to come in handy for my plot. |
| shandiris08-17-06, 03:44 AM | How much in there is for Fang Dragons? thanks |
| EytanBernstein08-17-06, 03:30 PM | There's a block of text detailing Nartheling, a fang dragon that rules an enormous isolated mountain (and it also talks about his troubles with a gaggle of rather nasty beholders). I intend to expand this in the future. |
| BelRex08-19-06, 01:48 PM | Quick couple of questions about the book I noticed(and may have overlooked the answer in a obvious place). I am enjoying the book a great deal. 1. Gildenfire, p12-13 is missing wildshape as a class feature. I did notice that under his alternate form entry that he can chose any size from large or anything smaller. I'm assuming it was all just rolled into a single ability, even though wildshape is slightly different and allows more uses? Should he also have Initiate of Nature, since he is so deeply involved with his church? He also seems to be missing spontaneous casting(summon natures ally) 2. Daurgothoth, p148 has a CR of 50. Is this correct? As a GW black dracolich he should have a base CR of 24 and with 20 levels of wizard (10 cr) and another 5 of archmage(3) he should have a CR of 37? Since wizard is not an associated class for him, archmage could be if it was applied to his sorcerer casting. That's all I noticed right off, any light that could be shed would be great. |
| primemover00308-24-06, 03:51 PM | Eytan is there going to be anymore info on the resumption of the Dragonfall war in any upcoming products? Beyond a scant paragraph or so in Races of the Dragon and the Turning of the Great Cycle section of DoF is there anywhere else I can look for more on the battles between Bahamut and Tiamat? I'm looking to expand on this in my next campaign. I think there might be some in MMIV too... |
| ericlboyd08-25-06, 12:07 PM | Eytan is there going to be anymore info on the resumption of the Dragonfall war in any upcoming products? Beyond a scant paragraph or so in Races of the Dragon and the Turning of the Great Cycle section of DoF is there anywhere else I can look for more on the battles between Bahamut and Tiamat? I'm looking to expand on this in my next campaign. I think there might be some in MMIV too... Never say never, but at this point, I imagine WoTC will leave dragons of the Realms alone for a while. That said, the situation in Unther / Threskel / Chessenta is NOT stable, so I imagine more will have to be said about that area sooner rather than later. It all depends on the products individual designers get to work on and whether there's a way to work in a bit of info or not. All of which is another way of saying, we've given you some tools and some ideas, hopefully, so have at it! :-) --Eric |
| ericlboyd08-25-06, 12:13 PM | Quick couple of questions about the book I noticed(and may have overlooked the answer in a obvious place). I am enjoying the book a great deal. 1. Gildenfire, p12-13 is missing wildshape as a class feature. I did notice that under his alternate form entry that he can chose any size from large or anything smaller. I'm assuming it was all just rolled into a single ability, even though wildshape is slightly different and allows more uses? Should he also have Initiate of Nature, since he is so deeply involved with his church? He also seems to be missing spontaneous casting(summon natures ally) Yes, they were so similar it seemed to make more sense to roll them together. Not everyone deeply involved in his or her church has the corresponding Initiate feat. I don't have the book handy, but I suspect based on what you said that spontaneous casting of summon nature's ally is due to gold dragon's getting divine spells as well on their sorcerer table. 2. Daurgothoth, p148 has a CR of 50. Is this correct? As a GW black dracolich he should have a base CR of 24 and with 20 levels of wizard (10 cr) and another 5 of archmage(3) he should have a CR of 37? Since wizard is not an associated class for him, archmage could be if it was applied to his sorcerer casting. It's believe it's correct, but I don't have the sources handy to doublecheck. Don't half the CR benefit of the levels, IIRC, in this case. --Eric |
| EytanBernstein08-25-06, 03:15 PM | Eytan is there going to be anymore info on the resumption of the Dragonfall war in any upcoming products? Beyond a scant paragraph or so in Races of the Dragon and the Turning of the Great Cycle section of DoF is there anywhere else I can look for more on the battles between Bahamut and Tiamat? I'm looking to expand on this in my next campaign. I think there might be some in MMIV too... On top of what Eric said about Unther, Chessenta, and Threskel, there is also a thread in the entry for Protanther that has room for expansion. His awakening and subsequest crusade against a horde of monsters emerging in a rift in the ice is definitely something that could play a role in future work. |
| soulthief08-25-06, 06:35 PM | Some of the artwork from Dragons of Faerun didn't make it into the book. The art gallery has the steel dragon and a few pics of dragons. The book is great. I hope the web enhancement comes out soon. I am really looking forward to more on the drow dragons of Chaulssin. Some more on deep dragons would have been great too. |
| Dxzauvrinn08-26-06, 12:20 AM | I hope the web enhancement comes out soon. I am really looking forward to more on the drow dragons of Chaulssin. Some more on deep dragons would have been great too. Ditto. |
| Lord Karsus08-27-06, 12:04 AM | -I was a little disappointed that there were not pictures of the Steel Dragon and the Mist Dragon. But, other than that little grievance, I was quite pleased. I note that Jivex, the Faerie Dragon main character from the Rogue Dragons Trilogy was missing from that great list, though... |
| runestar08-27-06, 10:48 AM | It's believe it's correct, but I don't have the sources handy to doublecheck. Don't half the CR benefit of the levels, IIRC, in this case. 50 is correct in this case, a great wyrm black dragon is cr22 in 3.5, +3 from dracolich template, +25 from class lvs, there you go.:) I think the biggest controversy here is not counting his wiz lvs as non-associated class lvs, but since Eric is sticking by his original decision, everything is in order then.:) |
| primemover00308-27-06, 01:14 PM | On top of what Eric said about Unther, Chessenta, and Threskel, there is also a thread in the entry for Protanther that has room for expansion. His awakening and subsequest crusade against a horde of monsters emerging in a rift in the ice is definitely something that could play a role in future work. Unfortunately Unther, Chessenta, and Threskel are primarily different aspects of Tiamats church or powerful evil dragons fighting amongst themselves. Sure you could run a campaign where the PC's are the goodly forces trying to minimize the damage to innocent bystanders beneath the wings of these powerful wyrms, but I was looking for something else. I was looking for more Bahamut info, especially since Damara is apparently the "center" of his worship by non-dragons in the Realms. Protanther's awakening on the Great Glacier may be something closer to my campaign idea. I was thinking of starting in Impiltur and having the Cult of Tiamat and the Cult of the Dragon seeking tearfall sites in the uplands of the Forgotten Kingdom while Bahamut's servants in Damara move south to prevent either from finding them. My players want a Dragonslaying campaign, but the Old Empires aren't really their style of Region. |
| Asadeseth08-27-06, 02:19 PM | Actualy I think they missed 2 dragons in the Roll Call. There was a powerfull Female Psion Amathest Dragon in Elversult as well as a unique Ruby dragon (vaugly simlar in some ways to a song dragon in that its part Humanoid part dragon) who is the addopted daughter of the citys leader. |
| Aramaysis08-27-06, 10:40 PM | The beginning of the appendix states that "A sortable electronic spreadsheet version of this table..." is on the Wizards site. I would love to see this since it says it includes the sources for the dragons. Has anyone been able to find it? If so can you post a link? |
| Faraer08-27-06, 11:06 PM | It isn't up yet; it may appear before or after the book's web expansion(s) detailing the draconic gods and a third adventure. We must be patient, as the web team is overworked. (Hope Eric & Eytan will have Azazarrundoth (Swords of Eveningstar p. 105), too.) |
| ericlboyd08-28-06, 10:28 AM | It isn't up yet; it may appear before or after the book's web expansion(s) detailing the draconic gods and a third adventure. We must be patient, as the web team is overworked. (Hope Eric & Eytan will have Azazarrundoth (Swords of Eveningstar p. 105), too.) Nope. Didn't know about him. ;-) Obviously, there's a date before which we tried to be correct and after which we don't know about new developments and new Realmslore. It is my hope we can have a thread in which corrections and additions are posted and periodically we can get a revised version posted on the site. --Eric |
| Janos Antero08-29-06, 07:52 PM | -I was a little disappointed that there were not pictures of the Steel Dragon and the Mist Dragon. But, other than that little grievance, I was quite pleased. I note that Jivex, the Faerie Dragon main character from the Rogue Dragons Trilogy was missing from that great list, though... Jivex was recently statted out in Dragon Magazine when they did the Rogue's Gallery for the Trilogy if you wanted some stats on him. |
| Lord Karsus08-29-06, 10:26 PM | Jivex was recently statted out in Dragon Magazine when they did the Rogue's Gallery for the Trilogy if you wanted some stats on him. -No, but I just found it a little odd that one of the few "main character" dragons was missing. |
| allenchan08-29-06, 11:11 PM | Jivex was recently statted out in Dragon Magazine when they did the Rogue's Gallery for the Trilogy if you wanted some stats on him. Which one? :) |
| Derren S.08-30-06, 02:11 AM | -No, but I just found it a little odd that one of the few "main character" dragons was missing. Jivex is no true dragon so unless they also list every wyvern, dragon turtle and pseudodragon too he does't belong into that list. |
| Demetrios08-30-06, 02:18 AM | Jivex is no true dragon so unless they also list every wyvern, dragon turtle and pseudodragon too he does't belong into that list. They did. Well, the dragon turtles and pseudodragons at least... |
| Lord Karsus08-30-06, 02:22 AM | Jivex is no true dragon so unless they also list every wyvern, dragon turtle and pseudodragon too he does't belong into that list. -They did list Newt, and Zyx, which made me find it odd that Jivex wasn't there. |
| ericlboyd08-30-06, 09:50 AM | -They did list Newt, and Zyx, which made me find it odd that Jivex wasn't there. We tried to list all named true dragons and faerie dragons. (We included faerie dragons, as there had been so many interesting named ones in Realmslore.) --Eric |
| WingedFairyWolf08-30-06, 11:45 AM | Maybe the dragon's that they didn't list will be in the individual books such as the Moonsea book (sorry, I haven't even looked at that book yet) Speaking of the Moonsea book... is Nymmuh's stats listed in there? All it said on the great watcher of the Silmurhelves family is that during the Dracorage is he accidentally teleported himself to a different plane. |
| Teh_username08-30-06, 01:55 PM | THere's a sidebar in Chapter 1 that defines them. You'll see a lot more on drow-dragons in the web enhancement. --Eric YAY. ...er, I mean "damn the heretical-"...oh, who am I kidding? We all love the Chaulssin. |
| EytanBernstein08-30-06, 09:48 PM | They did. Well, the dragon turtles and pseudodragons at least... No matter how thorough we are, a few are always going to slip through the cracks. |
| Lord Karsus08-30-06, 11:28 PM | No matter how thorough we are, a few are always going to slip through the cracks. -That's where we come in. Neurotic fans always find every little mistake, and make sure nothing falls through the cracks! :cool: |
| johnnype08-31-06, 12:37 AM | Which one? :) I think its issue number 326. |
| Chloramantis08-31-06, 01:27 PM | -That's where we come in. Neurotic fans always find every little mistake, and make sure nothing falls through the cracks! :cool: I was gonna say the same thing! People need to chill out a bit. |
| Chloramantis08-31-06, 02:10 PM | I love Dragons of Faerun for it's information on Threskel, Chessenta and Unther. I especially like the information on Threskel, for there is not much anywhere. What I don't like is the apparent rulers of these nations are dragons. How will Tchazzar's rebirth affect Chessenta? I can only imagine Chessenta being more chaotic now with his return. Also, I was hoping Marduk would return to defend Unther. Isn't Marduk an alias of Bahamut? What I don't understand is, why are there so many evil dragons in this region? What happened to the good dragons? Marduk could return to Unther like Tchazzar returned to Chessenta? Marduk would give Unther some hope in defeating Mulhorand. Or, Bane could return Gilgeam to Unther and defeat Tiamat driving her to Chessenta. If Bane thinks Tiamat is encroaching on this portfolio of Tyranny, then Gilgeam would be a good choice. The people of Unther may actually like Gilgeam/Bane with the influx of trade the Zhentarim will bring. In conclusion, Bane could easily defeat Tiamat if he wanted, no. Finally, Kabarrath Telthaug, Imperceptor of Bane leads the largest temple of Bane, right? Even bigger than Fzoul Chembryl's temples in Mulmaster and Zhentil Keep? If so, have these two high tyrants ever met? Is Telthaug an orthodox Banite like the ones Fzoul purged in the north, or for that matter all over Faerun? If he is, I would imagine him as having facial tattoos and wearing black and red (like Bane originally wished, in addition to being more evil looking)? Anyways, if they were to meet, what do you think would happen? Would the Zhentarim gain another foothold in Faerun? I think Telthaug would make a great ally for the Zhentarim. Back to the Gilgeam/Bane disguise. |
| biomante08-31-06, 03:22 PM | Well, it is funny, I REALLY want to like a lot Dragons of Faerun , but I feel like it falls short in some places..., I can't really point a finger to it. Probably what I was expecting will be in the web enhancement (Chaulssin baby!!). In some parts the book is similar in scope to Misteries of the moonsea :yuck: Well, just my honest opinion. Also, they screwed up the credit for the cover artist, the piece is from Todd Lockwood, and the book credits (if I remember correctly) Parillo (sp?) |
| Khaelieth09-01-06, 06:01 AM | I just picked up the book, and have a quick question... what the heck is a drow-dragon? There are some listed in the appendix, but I havent been able to find any more information on -what- they are. Drow dragons have a little sidebar. It's explained there. |
| Jiggawha09-02-06, 01:28 PM | Does the book has something about the Land of Alabaster towers considering the dragon blood of their sorcerers ? |
| Ardashir11-20-07, 11:52 AM | I am really looking forward to more on the drow dragons of Chaulssin. Some more on deep dragons would have been great too. Didn''t that extra and updated information make it into the Dragon Magic and Drow of the Underdark books? BTW, once again to all concerned with the actual book: I still love it. |
| Laerekh_Jaelre11-21-07, 02:49 PM | Anyone else notice Despayr's stats in the back of the book are different than the ones in the Cormyr: the Tearing of the Weave adventure? |
| Mr_Miscellany11-28-07, 07:57 PM | Anyone else notice Despayr's stats in the back of the book are different than the ones in the Cormyr: the Tearing of the Weave adventure? I didn't, though now you've got me headed towards my bookshelf to have a look. ;) |
| OrderofUhlrik11-29-07, 09:52 AM | I have the original song dragon (weredragon) write up I believe. Its from a monster compendium and are not those compiled from the dragon articles? I don't recall them being called song dragons, or mating with copper dragons though. >.> <.< |