Drow Sign Language [Archive] - Wizards Community

Drow Sign Language [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Inspired_Mage
08-26-05, 04:33 AM Hi All,

Is the Drow Sign Language a learnable language for a non-drow character?

I was sure I read something in PGtF that says it is but for the life of me I could not find that again.

I am trying to justify it by the fact that my pc is an elven cleric of Shevarash and surely the church would find a way to obtain that language and teach it to their priests so that when in combat against them there will be no suprises ala the phrase "Know thy enemy".

Do you think this may be justified?
FriendoftheDork
08-26-05, 05:54 AM Hi All,

Is the Drow Sign Language a learnable language for a non-drow character?

I was sure I read something in PGtF that says it is but for the life of me I could not find that again.

I am trying to justify it by the fact that my pc is an elven cleric of Shevarash and surely the church would find a way to obtain that language and teach it to their priests so that when in combat against them there will be no suprises ala the phrase "Know thy enemy".

Do you think this may be justified?

Learnable? Yes. But a Drow would never give away his secrets unless perhaps tortured, and I don't think even Sheverash clerics go THAT far.

So no I don't think your PC should know it... but why not try to learn it? Capture or even befriend a Drow and try it.

Also... the sign language my differ a bit from city to city, as these are enemies.
Zanan
08-26-05, 06:00 AM Have a look on this in the Races thread .. we discussed a similar topic before.

Ruleswise, Drow Sign Language is "just" another language, though probably as unique as Druidic. Well, at least with regard to the possibility to learn it.

In general, I would require the Shevarashan to get him-/herself a drow teacher (hardly likely, but who knows). A willing drow teacher! Remember: drow tend to be paranoid and utterly suspicious, even Eilistraeens. The latter tend to redeem the drow, not to kill them ... something 99,9 % of the Shevarashans are up to. So it is not only unlikely that the Shevarashan will co-operate with a drow, it is also unlikely that an Eilistraeen will help.

Force a drow to do it? Only by spell. If you have read WotSQ - or any other drow sourcebook - you will know that drow are hard to break by normal ... and non-normal means.

Best way might be some sort of UD trader (e.g., duergar) who has snapped up the odd signal here and there.

As in: this depends very much on the background. IMHO
Inspired_Mage
08-26-05, 07:59 AM Thanks folks,

I dont think my character will be able to sit and learn things from a drow as his brother was killed by one and thus bred his hatred of the drow and converted him to the Church of Shevarash, I dread the day my DM puts in a good Drow in our campaign but it will make some interesting role playing!
warlockco
08-26-05, 09:51 PM According to the old material, only Drow had the correct "hands" for doing the Silent Tongue (as it was known in the old material), I could see other Elves being able to learn (fluently use) it also, but that is as far as I would go. Since material from at least one piece of old material (Cormanthyr, I think), specifically expressed that Elven hands in structure while similar to Human hands, were quite different.
At best I could see other races being back to read the Silent Tongue, but not be able to use it to effectively communicate anything beyond the very basic.
BrianCritchley
08-26-05, 10:57 PM on the other hand drizzt offered to teach it to a deep gnome...
warlockco
08-27-05, 01:12 AM on the other hand drizzt offered to teach it to a deep gnome...

Also remember back at that time, Drizzt was more ignorant than a hillbilly in the middle of new york city.
Another Gnome
08-27-05, 04:26 AM Well, Entreri learned the basics of it (Jar-Jar taught him, I'd imagine).

In game terms that would be sufficient to communicate -- i.e. conversing on the same level of detail as one would "realistically" do with Common (which is simply a last-resort option when there's no "real" language mutually understood by each participant of a conversation).
warlockco
08-27-05, 06:40 AM I thought Jaraxle only taugh Artemis how to read the Signs, but not how to effectively form them.
Thraen
08-27-05, 07:23 AM I don't think Drow should be any harder to learn than Abyssal or Infernal. I'd say the main reason anybody can learn any language is because so many scrolls are written in this or that language. Drow may be secretive about their language, but if an outsider offers twice the price of a Drow-written scroll than a fellow Dark Elf, why should he care? As far as I'm concerned, information on any language (except Druidic, of course,) should be readily available for a price.
warlockco
08-27-05, 07:43 AM I don't think Drow should be any harder to learn than Abyssal or Infernal. I'd say the main reason anybody can learn any language is because so many scrolls are written in this or that language. Drow may be secretive about their language, but if an outsider offers twice the price of a Drow-written scroll than a fellow Dark Elf, why should he care? As far as I'm concerned, information on any language (except Druidic, of course,) should be readily available for a price.

We aren't referring to Spoken Drow we are referring to the Drow Sign Language.
Which is supposed to be unique to the Drow because of differences in physiology between Elves (especially Drow) and other humanoids.
Zanan
08-27-05, 09:57 AM Drow Sign Language is a unique one and, according to The Drow of the Underdark a ... soundless language of gestures and expressions developed by drow long ago. This "silent language" of drow, sometimes called the "hand code," is a language as detailed as the spoken word. .

So rulewise it is technically "just" another language, but surely pretty hard to come by.
Saccoon
08-27-05, 10:07 AM Very good post i find it very interesting i preffer the Drow they are an intelligent race indeed to have created such a language. But heres a task for you..........Try to find the symbols for the language ....i would like to see what the language looks like.
Zanan
08-28-05, 08:47 AM Very good post i find it very interesting i preffer the Drow they are an intelligent race indeed to have created such a language. But heres a task for you..........Try to find the symbols for the language ....i would like to see what the language looks like.

Ed goes on in the very same book:
Its specifics are not given in this book for two reasons: First, Elminster believes that some secrets should be kept, and I agree. Second, development of gestures and expressions is an ideal area for DM creativity, to encourage PC roleplaying and uncertainty. Moreover, showing and describing the nuances and combinations of the unspoken tongue requires months of concentrated tutoring.

As in: so far, nothing has been written about the way drow sign language looks like. We only know that the drow use them. The rest is up for players and DMs to make up. Yet, mark my words: it is not worth the effort. For players (not characters) will hardly ever use different languages if they want to talk with one another ... trying to emulate that their characters speak Common and say Chondathan. Then again, there may be LARP'ers around :shocked:
Inspired_Mage
08-29-05, 03:56 AM My main reason for wanting to learn the language is more for being able to read it not to speak it as such, as a cleric of Shevarash and I will be venturing into the Underdark then I would like to know what they are saying if they try to communicate with each other during combat so I can try and counter accordingly...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Inspired_Mage 08-26-05, 04:33 AM	Hi All, Is the Drow Sign Language a learnable language for a non-drow character? I was sure I read something in PGtF that says it is but for the life of me I could not find that again. I am trying to justify it by the fact that my pc is an elven cleric of Shevarash and surely the church would find a way to obtain that language and teach it to their priests so that when in combat against them there will be no suprises ala the phrase "Know thy enemy". Do you think this may be justified?
FriendoftheDork 08-26-05, 05:54 AM	Hi All, Is the Drow Sign Language a learnable language for a non-drow character? I was sure I read something in PGtF that says it is but for the life of me I could not find that again. I am trying to justify it by the fact that my pc is an elven cleric of Shevarash and surely the church would find a way to obtain that language and teach it to their priests so that when in combat against them there will be no suprises ala the phrase "Know thy enemy". Do you think this may be justified? Learnable? Yes. But a Drow would never give away his secrets unless perhaps tortured, and I don't think even Sheverash clerics go THAT far. So no I don't think your PC should know it... but why not try to learn it? Capture or even befriend a Drow and try it. Also... the sign language my differ a bit from city to city, as these are enemies.
Zanan 08-26-05, 06:00 AM	Have a look on this in the Races thread .. we discussed a similar topic before. Ruleswise, Drow Sign Language is "just" another language, though probably as unique as Druidic. Well, at least with regard to the possibility to learn it. In general, I would require the Shevarashan to get him-/herself a drow teacher (hardly likely, but who knows). A willing drow teacher! Remember: drow tend to be paranoid and utterly suspicious, even Eilistraeens. The latter tend to redeem the drow, not to kill them ... something 99,9 % of the Shevarashans are up to. So it is not only unlikely that the Shevarashan will co-operate with a drow, it is also unlikely that an Eilistraeen will help. Force a drow to do it? Only by spell. If you have read WotSQ - or any other drow sourcebook - you will know that drow are hard to break by normal ... and non-normal means. Best way might be some sort of UD trader (e.g., duergar) who has snapped up the odd signal here and there. As in: this depends very much on the background. IMHO
Inspired_Mage 08-26-05, 07:59 AM	Thanks folks, I dont think my character will be able to sit and learn things from a drow as his brother was killed by one and thus bred his hatred of the drow and converted him to the Church of Shevarash, I dread the day my DM puts in a good Drow in our campaign but it will make some interesting role playing!
warlockco 08-26-05, 09:51 PM	According to the old material, only Drow had the correct "hands" for doing the Silent Tongue (as it was known in the old material), I could see other Elves being able to learn (fluently use) it also, but that is as far as I would go. Since material from at least one piece of old material (Cormanthyr, I think), specifically expressed that Elven hands in structure while similar to Human hands, were quite different. At best I could see other races being back to read the Silent Tongue, but not be able to use it to effectively communicate anything beyond the very basic.
BrianCritchley 08-26-05, 10:57 PM	on the other hand drizzt offered to teach it to a deep gnome...
warlockco 08-27-05, 01:12 AM	on the other hand drizzt offered to teach it to a deep gnome... Also remember back at that time, Drizzt was more ignorant than a hillbilly in the middle of new york city.
Another Gnome 08-27-05, 04:26 AM	Well, Entreri learned the basics of it (Jar-Jar taught him, I'd imagine). In game terms that would be sufficient to communicate -- i.e. conversing on the same level of detail as one would "realistically" do with Common (which is simply a last-resort option when there's no "real" language mutually understood by each participant of a conversation).
warlockco 08-27-05, 06:40 AM	I thought Jaraxle only taugh Artemis how to read the Signs, but not how to effectively form them.
Thraen 08-27-05, 07:23 AM	I don't think Drow should be any harder to learn than Abyssal or Infernal. I'd say the main reason anybody can learn any language is because so many scrolls are written in this or that language. Drow may be secretive about their language, but if an outsider offers twice the price of a Drow-written scroll than a fellow Dark Elf, why should he care? As far as I'm concerned, information on any language (except Druidic, of course,) should be readily available for a price.
warlockco 08-27-05, 07:43 AM	I don't think Drow should be any harder to learn than Abyssal or Infernal. I'd say the main reason anybody can learn any language is because so many scrolls are written in this or that language. Drow may be secretive about their language, but if an outsider offers twice the price of a Drow-written scroll than a fellow Dark Elf, why should he care? As far as I'm concerned, information on any language (except Druidic, of course,) should be readily available for a price. We aren't referring to Spoken Drow we are referring to the Drow Sign Language. Which is supposed to be unique to the Drow because of differences in physiology between Elves (especially Drow) and other humanoids.
Zanan 08-27-05, 09:57 AM	Drow Sign Language is a unique one and, according to The Drow of the Underdark a ... soundless language of gestures and expressions developed by drow long ago. This "silent language" of drow, sometimes called the "hand code," is a language as detailed as the spoken word. . So rulewise it is technically "just" another language, but surely pretty hard to come by.
Saccoon 08-27-05, 10:07 AM	Very good post i find it very interesting i preffer the Drow they are an intelligent race indeed to have created such a language. But heres a task for you..........Try to find the symbols for the language ....i would like to see what the language looks like.
Zanan 08-28-05, 08:47 AM	Very good post i find it very interesting i preffer the Drow they are an intelligent race indeed to have created such a language. But heres a task for you..........Try to find the symbols for the language ....i would like to see what the language looks like. Ed goes on in the very same book: Its specifics are not given in this book for two reasons: First, Elminster believes that some secrets should be kept, and I agree. Second, development of gestures and expressions is an ideal area for DM creativity, to encourage PC roleplaying and uncertainty. Moreover, showing and describing the nuances and combinations of the unspoken tongue requires months of concentrated tutoring. As in: so far, nothing has been written about the way drow sign language looks like. We only know that the drow use them. The rest is up for players and DMs to make up. Yet, mark my words: it is not worth the effort. For players (not characters) will hardly ever use different languages if they want to talk with one another ... trying to emulate that their characters speak Common and say Chondathan. Then again, there may be LARP'ers around :shocked:
Inspired_Mage 08-29-05, 03:56 AM	My main reason for wanting to learn the language is more for being able to read it not to speak it as such, as a cleric of Shevarash and I will be venturing into the Underdark then I would like to know what they are saying if they try to communicate with each other during combat so I can try and counter accordingly...