Ed, Elminster, and RPG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ed, Elminster, and RPG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Valgard
08-08-07, 07:16 AM If after Ed Greenwood and Elminster met for the first time, Ed created the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and he played and encouraged people to play... Does Elminster play d20 Modern in Toril? Does he encourage people in Faerūn to roleplay in a game based in our world?
captaincarot
08-08-07, 07:51 AM no elminster plays a starwars derivative
Diffan
08-08-07, 07:55 AM no elminster plays a starwars derivative

and scoffs at such notions as the "Force".
Faraer
08-08-07, 03:12 PM C'mon, Papers & Paychecks campaign in Storm Silverhand's farmhouse.
Francius
08-08-07, 05:06 PM If after Ed Greenwood and Elminster met for the first time, Ed created the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and he played and encouraged people to play... Does Elminster play d20 Modern in Toril? Does he encourage people in Faerūn to roleplay in a game based in our world?

That would be impossible.

Folks in the Realms are still in the medieval times.

How would they immagine about a far future technological world?

They only go as far as oil lamps.
Calmar
08-08-07, 06:50 PM Just the idea of people dreaming of a future with highly developed technology is ridiculous. :D
Francius
08-08-07, 07:02 PM Just the idea of people dreaming of a future with highly developed technology is ridiculous. :D

It depends on the era in which people are making fantastic thoughts of it.

If the civilization of that era (say the 20th century) is already somehow ahead with basic technology, then it's normal that science fiction will be even more immaginative.

But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world?

Could they dream about spaceships, hovercrafts, missiles, lazer guns, and light swords when they still had not invented electricity and gun-powder?
Dark Wizard
08-08-07, 08:08 PM "But the check-out girl has +7 Sass!"
Lord Karsus
08-08-07, 11:30 PM But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world?

Could they dream about spaceships, hovercrafts, missiles, lazer guns, and light swords when they still had not invented electricity and gun-powder?

-Ever hear of DaRoni?
Valgard
08-09-07, 08:57 AM That would be impossible.

Folks in the Realms are still in the medieval times.

How would they immagine about a far future technological world?

They only go as far as oil lamps.
Well, technically speaking, anybody in Earth know anything about Toril after Ed Greenwood met Elminster (or at least, that is what Ed says), so Ed learn everything about Toril from Elminster. Why wouldn't Ed say how our world is to Elminster?
Francius
08-09-07, 01:02 PM Well, technically speaking, anybody in Earth know anything about Toril after Ed Greenwood met Elminster (or at least, that is what Ed says), so Ed learn everything about Toril from Elminster. Why wouldn't Ed say how our world is to Elminster?

Yeah, well, they 'd still have a tough time to even immagine those descriptions Ed would give them.

I 'll say it again, if the civilization of an era is way too primitive in technology (like the medieval times), its people cannot immagine about a high-tech future world.
Francius
08-09-07, 01:06 PM -Ever hear of DaRoni?

He doesn't seem to me very different from a "Dragonlancian" tinker gnome.

What makes him related to our discussion here?

Nadul DaRoni (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20040114a)
Eli_the_Tanner
08-10-07, 01:19 PM In a wizard's three artcicle while hanging out in Ed's house Rauthnee comments

"Bright blistering basilisks. These 'DVD's' he was blathering about had better be worth all this." Elminster replies

"Aha!" Elminster said waving a finger at her. "They are-just ye wait!"

Clearly El is well-versed in our technologies courtesy of Ed.
Lord Karsus
08-10-07, 11:24 PM He doesn't seem to me very different from a "Dragonlancian" tinker gnome.

What makes him related to our discussion here?

Nadul DaRoni (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20040114a)

-You said, "But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world?". By flipping through Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, and looking at some of the stuff the Gnome was designing, there are plenty of things that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world".
GoldDragon
08-12-07, 03:09 PM Yeah, well, they 'd still have a tough time to even immagine those descriptions Ed would give them.

I 'll say it again, if the civilization of an era is way too primitive in technology (like the medieval times), its people cannot immagine about a high-tech future world.

heh,heh, High Tech?

You do know the "Dark Ages" had to do with the Dominant Religion of the time destroying anything it didn't consider essential to keeping people under their thumb (as in anything that would allow the people to think for themselves or be free of Religious brainwashing and arrogance/ignorance).

With things being discovered such as a 2500 year old brass clockwork device (astronomical "computer"), the covered remains of a City with buildings that rival if not exceed modern engineering of buildings in the Mediterranean ("Atlantis" remains), Giant Murals that can be seen from space double as "runways", and the fact that Chinese had access to guns at least 5000bc ("firesticks")....I say that the we are hardly as advanced as we were in the past.

considering that there is 30 million different species on earth, I still think that any space explorer types wondering around (UFOs) are of Human decent from an era before we blasted ourselves back into the Stone age if not being blasted back to the stone age by a natural disaster.

Looking at the fossil records in the "right" way we can see where Orcs, Elves,Kolbolds, Dwarfs,Halflings and other "nearmen" aren't afigment of the imagination or just pulled out of Toilkiens or other fiction writers ass (of course antropology calls them bones "Lucy", Neanderthals,etc and wrongly estimates there age cause of the older rocks and cause Carbon 14 and other "measuring sticks" do excelerate in decay to heat, pressure, and weather exposure)

As far as Toril being in a "Middle Ages"...Yes and no, as even they had Civilizations that fell basically trowing the people back into the stone age and they have re-reached their "Middle Ages" status with the bonus of "Magic" rather then technology....which seems to be a deeper understanding of Natural energies wieldable by will and mind then by devices
Lord Karsus
08-12-07, 11:51 PM You do know the "Dark Ages" had to do with the Dominant Religion of the time destroying anything it didn't consider essential to keeping people under their thumb (as in anything that would allow the people to think for themselves or be free of Religious brainwashing and arrogance/ignorance).

-That is only one reason, out of many.

I say that the we are hardly as advanced as we were in the past.

-I am sorry, but I consider that statement laughable.
Francius
08-14-07, 01:27 AM heh,heh, High Tech?

Yeah, high tech.

What about it?

You do know the "Dark Ages" had to do with the Dominant Religion of the time destroying anything it didn't consider essential to keeping people under their thumb (as in anything that would allow the people to think for themselves or be free of Religious brainwashing and arrogance/ignorance).

That still didn't deny anyone the freedom to fantasize within his mind.

Also, Religion during the medieval times was influential only to the regions of Europe that did possess one and that was oppressively cultivated to a grand extent (compare Italy to Germany). In some other places (portions of Nordic Europe especially), people were more free to fare in their lives without religion being such a heavy factor.

With things being discovered such as a 2500 year old brass clockwork device (astronomical "computer"),

Clarify yourself further on this one or please be keeding.

the covered remains of a City with buildings that rival if not exceed modern engineering of buildings in the Mediterranean ("Atlantis" remains),

Clarify yourself further on this one or please be keeding.

Giant Murals that can be seen from space double as "runways",

Clarify yourself further on this one or please be keeding.

and the fact that Chinese had access to guns at least 5000bc ("firesticks")....

Now you must be clearly joking right?

Guns mean objects firing projectile weapons based off gun powder and the first evidence we have of gunpowder - well, sort off since it initially didn't have the explosive results of its latest form - is indeed chinese but it dates as late as the 9th century AC.

I say that the we are hardly as advanced as we were in the past.

I agree with LK here....again.

I consider that statement laughable.

As far as Toril being in a "Middle Ages"...Yes and no, as even they had Civilizations that fell basically trowing the people back into the stone age and they have re-reached their "Middle Ages" status with the bonus of "Magic" rather then technology....which seems to be a deeper understanding of Natural energies wieldable by will and mind then by devices

Toril is a world that resembles our own Earth during the middle-ages (13th -14th centuries.)

Other than the use of magic, everything else is pretty much very close to how the middle ages looked, feeled and tasted during their era.
Francius
08-14-07, 01:31 AM -You said, "But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world?". By flipping through Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, and looking at some of the stuff the Gnome was designing, there are plenty of things that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world".

Since I disagree with what you say (I have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue and I flipped through it), care to pinpoint some of the items contained in that book that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world"?
Lord Karsus
08-14-07, 09:18 AM Since I disagree with what you say (I have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue and I flipped through it), care to pinpoint some of the items contained in that book that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world"?

-Sure. Flip to page...147. That's where DaRoni's Workshop begins. On that page, we have a large clockpiece, complete with gears and mechanisms. On the very next page, we have a "Furnace Wagon". Very akin to an automobile. On page 151, we have the "Air Screw", which, for all intents and purposes, is a helicopter. On the next page, the "Doubles Wheel" can also be considered a helicopter. The "Heartland Flier" on page 153 is very similar to a very primative plane, or perhaps glider. On page 154, DaRoni talks about biology, and learning how the body works. While not necessarily futuristic, it is leagues ahead of where the rest of Faerūn is. Page 159 has a submarine, his "Underwater Boat". His "Diving Hood" is also primitive SCUBA gear. All of the things I just mentioned could easily be found in any futuristic setting. DaRoni's actual designs would need to be changed, but the concepts they represent wouldn't.
dragonheart
08-14-07, 02:14 PM Before I tear into the list below - keep in mind that while some of the social conditions of Faerun are more or less midevial European effectively the realms as a whole is not. it IS a highly technological world already - but its technology is magic not mechanics. Mechanics do also exist but are primitive compared to magic. So the basis of "Faerunian science fiction role play games" is really there - a world without magic in which mechanics does what magic does in Faerun ( just as we basically have a world in which magic doesn't exist and we imagine a world where magic replaces our mechanics/science/etc). now on to the questions below.

Originally Posted by GoldDragon
With things being discovered such as a 2500 year old brass clockwork device (astronomical "computer")

THis is the Antykithera device discovered about 35 years ago off the coast of a greek island. It is indeed apparently a gear driven "computer" calculating the motions of the known heavens and allowing you to determine when eclipses would occur. based on x-ray/cat scans a working model has been built.
Originally Posted by GoldDragon
the covered remains of a City with buildings that rival if not exceed modern engineering of buildings in the Mediterranean ("Atlantis" remains)

I too would like to know the source of this. there was a report about 2-3 years ago of a large buried city being found offshore in Pakistan in about 150 feet of water but I've been able to find nothing more on it since the initial reports.
Giant Murals that can be seen from space double as "runways" I suspect someone has been reading too much old Von Danikkan - this sounds like he is talking about the Nazca Plain images in Peru/Chile. The description/explanation he is claiming was debunked years ago - first of all they are not actually visible from space - they are visible from the local mountain tops however and that seems to be where the patterns were designed and developed from, second they show the zodiacal constelations of the Inca and pre-inca native americans of the region and they seem to be related to water managment and seasonal calculations. sadly the Spanish destroyed so much that we may never have the full story on their religion and so may never fully understand these remarkable art/calendar creations fully.
Originally Posted by GoldDragon
and the fact that Chinese had access to guns at least 5000bc ("firesticks").... yeah he is off here as well - this is based on his and a few other's reading of badly translated ancient chinese texts and legends that are said to describe demons attacking the gods with "firesticks" which they are reading as guns and using that to prove that gunpowder and guns are actually a much earlier chinese invnetion - despite there being no solid textual or archeological evidence for this (at present).

considering that there is 30 million different species on earth, I still think that any space explorer types wondering around (UFOs) are of Human decent from an era before we blasted ourselves back into the Stone age if not being blasted back to the stone age by a natural disaster.

Sigh, wild speculations and wishes. there are somewhere between 2 and 100 million species presently on Earth (we have named approximately 2 million, and depending on the numbers and how you define a species of bacteria or virus the total could reach about 100 million today) and 1-10 billion over the last 600 million years. COuld some other group have developed our level of intelligence (or grater), built a spacefaring technology and be coming back to check up on the "old home world" periodically - sure - but there is no evidence beside some folk's wishful thinking for this.

Looking at the fossil records in the "right" way we can see where Orcs, Elves,Kolbolds, Dwarfs,Halflings and other "nearmen" aren't afigment of the imagination or just pulled out of Toilkiens or other fiction writers ass (of course antropology calls them bones "Lucy", Neanderthals,etc and wrongly estimates there age cause of the older rocks and cause Carbon 14 and other "measuring sticks" do excelerate in decay to heat, pressure, and weather exposure)

Yuuuuuuuuucccckkkkk, Let me start at the end and work backward to the one possible grain of reality in this section. Radiometric dating techniques do not change the decay rate based on physical conditions such as temperature, pressure, weatehring rates, etc. A few of the most recent do have some impacts from weathering - the samples used for these are carefully selected to account for these potential problems. THere are a few anomolies in the C-14 record based on changes in the Sun's activity that caused changes inthe rate of C-14 production but these are now well known and accomadated in the dating process. Longer term systems like K/Ar (used for Lucy and most "antropology digs" (> 50,000 yrs)(as opposed to the C-14 using "Archeology digs" (< 50,000 yrs)) are carefully checked and rechecked - those dates are not likely to change beyond the margins of error of the equipment used. the dates are solid no matter what some folks wish and spout (yes the Earth really is older than @6000 years)
that said ther is a slight possible grain of reality in part of that quite. It is fairly well established that many of the Celtiic legends of Elves actually deal with the Tuatha de Danaan - the last of the bronze age PreCelts and to some extent with their culture's continuing influences on the early iron age Celts as they moved out of southern Germany and into the rest of Europe around 1200 BC. Trolls/Ogres/ perhaps even Dwarves as folks tales may be final traces of cultural contacts between neaderthals and cromagnon or between different groups modern humans in the period 40,000 BC to 1500 BC in Europe. The more we learn about the quality of the oral tradition in oral tradition cultures the more remarkable it turns out to be- basically the stories don't change significantly - even over hundreds to thouands of years until they are written down at which point they start mutating rapidly. Certainly there are similarities between the common picture/discription of Neanderthals and both ogres and trolls that it can be fun to speculate a link between them. Dwarves are more a northern Germany story and may trace back to contacts between stone age groups in the region and metalworking groups in either the Carpathian mtns or Alps between 8000 and 1500 BC. We know that the hunter/gatherers were genrally several inches taller than the more settled farming/smithing groups living and working in the mines and stone villages where metalworking is introduced to Europe in the southeastern Eropean mountains. so its an interesting speculation the stories of dwarves dates from these interactions and this period of pre-history. but that is all it is - speculation.
Stigger
08-14-07, 07:27 PM Kinda hard to compare Earth with its absence of magic, and Faerun, with its very real demonstrable magic of many varieties... and given a lot of things mentioned, I would say it was fairer to say that Faerun was closer to the Rennaisance than to the Medieval period by and large... at least technologically. Not even going to go into the sociological differences that say we have no real idea what they could or couldn't imagine... but suffice to say, I think the 'its hard to look towards the stars when you're drowning in the filth' idea could certainly be applied to Earth, while its not necessarily true on Abeir Toril...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valgard 08-08-07, 07:16 AM	If after Ed Greenwood and Elminster met for the first time, Ed created the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and he played and encouraged people to play... Does Elminster play d20 Modern in Toril? Does he encourage people in Faerūn to roleplay in a game based in our world?
captaincarot 08-08-07, 07:51 AM	no elminster plays a starwars derivative
Diffan 08-08-07, 07:55 AM	no elminster plays a starwars derivative and scoffs at such notions as the "Force".
Faraer 08-08-07, 03:12 PM	C'mon, Papers & Paychecks campaign in Storm Silverhand's farmhouse.
Francius 08-08-07, 05:06 PM	If after Ed Greenwood and Elminster met for the first time, Ed created the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and he played and encouraged people to play... Does Elminster play d20 Modern in Toril? Does he encourage people in Faerūn to roleplay in a game based in our world? That would be impossible. Folks in the Realms are still in the medieval times. How would they immagine about a far future technological world? They only go as far as oil lamps.
Calmar 08-08-07, 06:50 PM	Just the idea of people dreaming of a future with highly developed technology is ridiculous. :D
Francius 08-08-07, 07:02 PM	Just the idea of people dreaming of a future with highly developed technology is ridiculous. :D It depends on the era in which people are making fantastic thoughts of it. If the civilization of that era (say the 20th century) is already somehow ahead with basic technology, then it's normal that science fiction will be even more immaginative. But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world? Could they dream about spaceships, hovercrafts, missiles, lazer guns, and light swords when they still had not invented electricity and gun-powder?
Dark Wizard 08-08-07, 08:08 PM	"But the check-out girl has +7 Sass!"
Lord Karsus 08-08-07, 11:30 PM	But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world? Could they dream about spaceships, hovercrafts, missiles, lazer guns, and light swords when they still had not invented electricity and gun-powder? -Ever hear of DaRoni?
Valgard 08-09-07, 08:57 AM	That would be impossible. Folks in the Realms are still in the medieval times. How would they immagine about a far future technological world? They only go as far as oil lamps. Well, technically speaking, anybody in Earth know anything about Toril after Ed Greenwood met Elminster (or at least, that is what Ed says), so Ed learn everything about Toril from Elminster. Why wouldn't Ed say how our world is to Elminster?
Francius 08-09-07, 01:02 PM	Well, technically speaking, anybody in Earth know anything about Toril after Ed Greenwood met Elminster (or at least, that is what Ed says), so Ed learn everything about Toril from Elminster. Why wouldn't Ed say how our world is to Elminster? Yeah, well, they 'd still have a tough time to even immagine those descriptions Ed would give them. I 'll say it again, if the civilization of an era is way too primitive in technology (like the medieval times), its people cannot immagine about a high-tech future world.
Francius 08-09-07, 01:06 PM	-Ever hear of DaRoni? He doesn't seem to me very different from a "Dragonlancian" tinker gnome. What makes him related to our discussion here? Nadul DaRoni (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20040114a)
Eli_the_Tanner 08-10-07, 01:19 PM	In a wizard's three artcicle while hanging out in Ed's house Rauthnee comments "Bright blistering basilisks. These 'DVD's' he was blathering about had better be worth all this." Elminster replies "Aha!" Elminster said waving a finger at her. "They are-just ye wait!" Clearly El is well-versed in our technologies courtesy of Ed.
Lord Karsus 08-10-07, 11:24 PM	He doesn't seem to me very different from a "Dragonlancian" tinker gnome. What makes him related to our discussion here? Nadul DaRoni (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20040114a) -You said, "But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world?". By flipping through Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, and looking at some of the stuff the Gnome was designing, there are plenty of things that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world".
GoldDragon 08-12-07, 03:09 PM	Yeah, well, they 'd still have a tough time to even immagine those descriptions Ed would give them. I 'll say it again, if the civilization of an era is way too primitive in technology (like the medieval times), its people cannot immagine about a high-tech future world. heh,heh, High Tech? You do know the "Dark Ages" had to do with the Dominant Religion of the time destroying anything it didn't consider essential to keeping people under their thumb (as in anything that would allow the people to think for themselves or be free of Religious brainwashing and arrogance/ignorance). With things being discovered such as a 2500 year old brass clockwork device (astronomical "computer"), the covered remains of a City with buildings that rival if not exceed modern engineering of buildings in the Mediterranean ("Atlantis" remains), Giant Murals that can be seen from space double as "runways", and the fact that Chinese had access to guns at least 5000bc ("firesticks")....I say that the we are hardly as advanced as we were in the past. considering that there is 30 million different species on earth, I still think that any space explorer types wondering around (UFOs) are of Human decent from an era before we blasted ourselves back into the Stone age if not being blasted back to the stone age by a natural disaster. Looking at the fossil records in the "right" way we can see where Orcs, Elves,Kolbolds, Dwarfs,Halflings and other "nearmen" aren't afigment of the imagination or just pulled out of Toilkiens or other fiction writers ass (of course antropology calls them bones "Lucy", Neanderthals,etc and wrongly estimates there age cause of the older rocks and cause Carbon 14 and other "measuring sticks" do excelerate in decay to heat, pressure, and weather exposure) As far as Toril being in a "Middle Ages"...Yes and no, as even they had Civilizations that fell basically trowing the people back into the stone age and they have re-reached their "Middle Ages" status with the bonus of "Magic" rather then technology....which seems to be a deeper understanding of Natural energies wieldable by will and mind then by devices
Lord Karsus 08-12-07, 11:51 PM	You do know the "Dark Ages" had to do with the Dominant Religion of the time destroying anything it didn't consider essential to keeping people under their thumb (as in anything that would allow the people to think for themselves or be free of Religious brainwashing and arrogance/ignorance). -That is only one reason, out of many. I say that the we are hardly as advanced as we were in the past. -I am sorry, but I consider that statement laughable.
Francius 08-14-07, 01:27 AM	heh,heh, High Tech? Yeah, high tech. What about it? You do know the "Dark Ages" had to do with the Dominant Religion of the time destroying anything it didn't consider essential to keeping people under their thumb (as in anything that would allow the people to think for themselves or be free of Religious brainwashing and arrogance/ignorance). That still didn't deny anyone the freedom to fantasize within his mind. Also, Religion during the medieval times was influential only to the regions of Europe that did possess one and that was oppressively cultivated to a grand extent (compare Italy to Germany). In some other places (portions of Nordic Europe especially), people were more free to fare in their lives without religion being such a heavy factor. With things being discovered such as a 2500 year old brass clockwork device (astronomical "computer"), Clarify yourself further on this one or please be keeding. the covered remains of a City with buildings that rival if not exceed modern engineering of buildings in the Mediterranean ("Atlantis" remains), Clarify yourself further on this one or please be keeding. Giant Murals that can be seen from space double as "runways", Clarify yourself further on this one or please be keeding. and the fact that Chinese had access to guns at least 5000bc ("firesticks").... Now you must be clearly joking right? Guns mean objects firing projectile weapons based off gun powder and the first evidence we have of gunpowder - well, sort off since it initially didn't have the explosive results of its latest form - is indeed chinese but it dates as late as the 9th century AC. I say that the we are hardly as advanced as we were in the past. I agree with LK here....again. I consider that statement laughable. As far as Toril being in a "Middle Ages"...Yes and no, as even they had Civilizations that fell basically trowing the people back into the stone age and they have re-reached their "Middle Ages" status with the bonus of "Magic" rather then technology....which seems to be a deeper understanding of Natural energies wieldable by will and mind then by devices Toril is a world that resembles our own Earth during the middle-ages (13th -14th centuries.) Other than the use of magic, everything else is pretty much very close to how the middle ages looked, feeled and tasted during their era.
Francius 08-14-07, 01:31 AM	-You said, "But what dreams could people do during the medieval times about a futuristic world?". By flipping through Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue, and looking at some of the stuff the Gnome was designing, there are plenty of things that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world". Since I disagree with what you say (I have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue and I flipped through it), care to pinpoint some of the items contained in that book that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world"?
Lord Karsus 08-14-07, 09:18 AM	Since I disagree with what you say (I have the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue and I flipped through it), care to pinpoint some of the items contained in that book that those who lived in a stereotypical "medieval world" dreamed of that could fit in a "futuristic world"? -Sure. Flip to page...147. That's where DaRoni's Workshop begins. On that page, we have a large clockpiece, complete with gears and mechanisms. On the very next page, we have a "Furnace Wagon". Very akin to an automobile. On page 151, we have the "Air Screw", which, for all intents and purposes, is a helicopter. On the next page, the "Doubles Wheel" can also be considered a helicopter. The "Heartland Flier" on page 153 is very similar to a very primative plane, or perhaps glider. On page 154, DaRoni talks about biology, and learning how the body works. While not necessarily futuristic, it is leagues ahead of where the rest of Faerūn is. Page 159 has a submarine, his "Underwater Boat". His "Diving Hood" is also primitive SCUBA gear. All of the things I just mentioned could easily be found in any futuristic setting. DaRoni's actual designs would need to be changed, but the concepts they represent wouldn't.
dragonheart 08-14-07, 02:14 PM	Before I tear into the list below - keep in mind that while some of the social conditions of Faerun are more or less midevial European effectively the realms as a whole is not. it IS a highly technological world already - but its technology is magic not mechanics. Mechanics do also exist but are primitive compared to magic. So the basis of "Faerunian science fiction role play games" is really there - a world without magic in which mechanics does what magic does in Faerun ( just as we basically have a world in which magic doesn't exist and we imagine a world where magic replaces our mechanics/science/etc). now on to the questions below. Originally Posted by GoldDragon With things being discovered such as a 2500 year old brass clockwork device (astronomical "computer") THis is the Antykithera device discovered about 35 years ago off the coast of a greek island. It is indeed apparently a gear driven "computer" calculating the motions of the known heavens and allowing you to determine when eclipses would occur. based on x-ray/cat scans a working model has been built. Originally Posted by GoldDragon the covered remains of a City with buildings that rival if not exceed modern engineering of buildings in the Mediterranean ("Atlantis" remains) I too would like to know the source of this. there was a report about 2-3 years ago of a large buried city being found offshore in Pakistan in about 150 feet of water but I've been able to find nothing more on it since the initial reports. Giant Murals that can be seen from space double as "runways" I suspect someone has been reading too much old Von Danikkan - this sounds like he is talking about the Nazca Plain images in Peru/Chile. The description/explanation he is claiming was debunked years ago - first of all they are not actually visible from space - they are visible from the local mountain tops however and that seems to be where the patterns were designed and developed from, second they show the zodiacal constelations of the Inca and pre-inca native americans of the region and they seem to be related to water managment and seasonal calculations. sadly the Spanish destroyed so much that we may never have the full story on their religion and so may never fully understand these remarkable art/calendar creations fully. Originally Posted by GoldDragon and the fact that Chinese had access to guns at least 5000bc ("firesticks").... yeah he is off here as well - this is based on his and a few other's reading of badly translated ancient chinese texts and legends that are said to describe demons attacking the gods with "firesticks" which they are reading as guns and using that to prove that gunpowder and guns are actually a much earlier chinese invnetion - despite there being no solid textual or archeological evidence for this (at present). considering that there is 30 million different species on earth, I still think that any space explorer types wondering around (UFOs) are of Human decent from an era before we blasted ourselves back into the Stone age if not being blasted back to the stone age by a natural disaster. Sigh, wild speculations and wishes. there are somewhere between 2 and 100 million species presently on Earth (we have named approximately 2 million, and depending on the numbers and how you define a species of bacteria or virus the total could reach about 100 million today) and 1-10 billion over the last 600 million years. COuld some other group have developed our level of intelligence (or grater), built a spacefaring technology and be coming back to check up on the "old home world" periodically - sure - but there is no evidence beside some folk's wishful thinking for this. Looking at the fossil records in the "right" way we can see where Orcs, Elves,Kolbolds, Dwarfs,Halflings and other "nearmen" aren't afigment of the imagination or just pulled out of Toilkiens or other fiction writers ass (of course antropology calls them bones "Lucy", Neanderthals,etc and wrongly estimates there age cause of the older rocks and cause Carbon 14 and other "measuring sticks" do excelerate in decay to heat, pressure, and weather exposure) Yuuuuuuuuucccckkkkk, Let me start at the end and work backward to the one possible grain of reality in this section. Radiometric dating techniques do not change the decay rate based on physical conditions such as temperature, pressure, weatehring rates, etc. A few of the most recent do have some impacts from weathering - the samples used for these are carefully selected to account for these potential problems. THere are a few anomolies in the C-14 record based on changes in the Sun's activity that caused changes inthe rate of C-14 production but these are now well known and accomadated in the dating process. Longer term systems like K/Ar (used for Lucy and most "antropology digs" (> 50,000 yrs)(as opposed to the C-14 using "Archeology digs" (< 50,000 yrs)) are carefully checked and rechecked - those dates are not likely to change beyond the margins of error of the equipment used. the dates are solid no matter what some folks wish and spout (yes the Earth really is older than @6000 years) that said ther is a slight possible grain of reality in part of that quite. It is fairly well established that many of the Celtiic legends of Elves actually deal with the Tuatha de Danaan - the last of the bronze age PreCelts and to some extent with their culture's continuing influences on the early iron age Celts as they moved out of southern Germany and into the rest of Europe around 1200 BC. Trolls/Ogres/ perhaps even Dwarves as folks tales may be final traces of cultural contacts between neaderthals and cromagnon or between different groups modern humans in the period 40,000 BC to 1500 BC in Europe. The more we learn about the quality of the oral tradition in oral tradition cultures the more remarkable it turns out to be- basically the stories don't change significantly - even over hundreds to thouands of years until they are written down at which point they start mutating rapidly. Certainly there are similarities between the common picture/discription of Neanderthals and both ogres and trolls that it can be fun to speculate a link between them. Dwarves are more a northern Germany story and may trace back to contacts between stone age groups in the region and metalworking groups in either the Carpathian mtns or Alps between 8000 and 1500 BC. We know that the hunter/gatherers were genrally several inches taller than the more settled farming/smithing groups living and working in the mines and stone villages where metalworking is introduced to Europe in the southeastern Eropean mountains. so its an interesting speculation the stories of dwarves dates from these interactions and this period of pre-history. but that is all it is - speculation.
Stigger 08-14-07, 07:27 PM	Kinda hard to compare Earth with its absence of magic, and Faerun, with its very real demonstrable magic of many varieties... and given a lot of things mentioned, I would say it was fairer to say that Faerun was closer to the Rennaisance than to the Medieval period by and large... at least technologically. Not even going to go into the sociological differences that say we have no real idea what they could or couldn't imagine... but suffice to say, I think the 'its hard to look towards the stars when you're drowning in the filth' idea could certainly be applied to Earth, while its not necessarily true on Abeir Toril...