Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Butterface 12-20-07, 12:17 PM	For those of you thinking about going to DDXP, or playing in Living FR, here's an interesting bit of info from the upcoming convention: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=rpga/ddxp/highlights "Living Forgotten Realms It’s the first chance to play in the RPGA's new Living Forgotten Realms campaign. We’ll be running several advance events allowing players to get a feel for the new campaign before its official launch at Gen Con Indy 2008. There is even a chance you’ll be a member of a lucky group that will be sitting at the table of the real Elminster, Ed Greenwood! Ed, author of many Forgotten Realms novels and original creator of the setting will hopefully be running an occasional game each day at the show. Make sure you sign up for these events and have the chance to play with Ed!" It would be awesome to sit down at the table and see Ed Greenwood take the DM's seat. A little intimidating too I imagine! Heh, I wonder what Ed thinks of this little blurb, seeing as how they call him "the real Elminster." ;)
Alediran 12-20-07, 12:47 PM	Holy c***. I hate you guys. Never try to live in the back of the world.
Fingoldfin 12-20-07, 01:06 PM	Holy c***. I hate you guys. Never try to live in the back of the world. As I understand it you're part of the world has lots of great beaches, hot girls, and tiny bikinis. That doesn't sound too bad to me. ;)
Butterface 12-20-07, 01:13 PM	As I understand it you're part of the world has lots of great beaches, hot girls, and tiny bikinis. That doesn't sound too bad to me. ;) If only he could get Ed Greenwood in a bikini it would be his dream come true! Hmm. I'm sorry for that comment. :weep:
Suin Bahhar 12-20-07, 01:20 PM	:rofl: Greenwood running a 3.5 game for me? Tell me, who do I have to kill for that?
Butterface 12-20-07, 01:24 PM	:rofl: Greenwood running a 3.5 game for me? Tell me, who do I have to kill for that? No one - you just have to attend DDXP (a convention in Arlington, VA formerly known as Winter Fantasy) this February. That and be lucky, as Ed is not running all the tables of course. DDXP info is all over the Wizards site. Just a heads up, this is an exclusively RPGA convention (not to say non-RPGA members can't go, but that all the games are RPGA games).
Suin Bahhar 12-20-07, 01:43 PM	Alas, I actually have to kill a lot of people to be able to go there so I am not able to go. Its also to far away for me. But shocks I'd love to be there RPGA or no.
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 09:50 PM	Greenwood running a 3.5 game for me? Tell me, who do I have to kill for that? -Is he even fluent with the rules? I was under the assumption he only played 2e, with his personal group. -I also find it funny that they call him the "Real Elminster". That probably making the "Ed is not Elminster" camp seeing red. They do so much to raise public awareness, and then stuff like this. Isn't this the second time the RPGA said something like that? Didn't a recent RPGA statement have something mentioning Ed is Elminster as well? -Alediran, like Fingoldfin, I'd gladly trade places with you for a few weeks. :cool:
The Ubbergeek 12-20-07, 09:53 PM	Maybe he like the Richard Garriot and Lord British thing... ;)
Butterface 12-20-07, 11:59 PM	-Isn't this the second time the RPGA said something like that? Didn't a recent RPGA statement have something mentioning Ed is Elminster as well? Yeah, but the first time was just a volunteer author for Living FR - not anyone that is employed by Wizards. This time however, it was all Chris Tulach (RPGA Content Manager), I'm fairly certain. :) You have to keep in mind that people that don't visit these boards have little to no idea that this mindset upsets some Realms fans. Heck, it was news to me.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 12:57 AM	Yeah, but the first time was just a volunteer author for Living FR - not anyone that is employed by Wizards. -Gotcha. -Personally, I don't care, but...
Stigger 12-21-07, 01:00 AM	Seems to be a stupid thing to get upset over... if Ed has a problem with it, its more his place to say something than anyone elses. He just doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet who's not willing to speak his mind, albeit in a polite as possible manner.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 01:40 AM	Seems to be a stupid thing to get upset over... if Ed has a problem with it, its more his place to say something than anyone elses. He just doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet who's not willing to speak his mind, albeit in a polite as possible manner. -Agreed. But, you've been here long enough, Stig.
Dark Wizard 12-21-07, 01:44 AM	Yeah, but the first time was just a volunteer author for Living FR - not anyone that is employed by Wizards. This time however, it was all Chris Tulach (RPGA Content Manager), I'm fairly certain. :) You have to keep in mind that people that don't visit these boards have little to no idea that this mindset upsets some Realms fans. Heck, it was news to me. It's not so much upsetting, but rather amusing in a sad way, laughable at WotC's contradictory actions. Here WotC goes saying they want to give the impression that the good epic NPCs don't dominate the Realms, which excludes players from meaningful games. Then here they go on perpetuating the idea that Elminster is some pet character of Ed's. Whether or not El is Ed, it is in WotC's best interest to distance this notion a bit in light of the anti-NPC mentality that WotC's market research seemingly uncovered prevalent amongst the majority of gamers. Even if the statement doesn't not mean such, it is easy to take that as the implication. This is a disservice to the creative people involved in bringing the Realms to life through their work, hitting against the novel and RPG line.
Stigger 12-21-07, 03:25 AM	I dunno... I've been noticing a bit of a disconnect between the advertising guys and the devs/designers of late, particularly as far as the ads go in magazines and such. Not to start a debate in here, but the stated goal and actions taken to attract female gamers seems to be in conflict with a lot of the directions things are taking, at least as far as the women I know who game are concerned, which is at least 10 or 11 people. True that its really too early to tell if that's really the case or not, but as things have been presented thus far, its really turning them off the idea of 4e. Having said that, I really don't think that's the case, but that the impression is being given to at least some people is something I think is a bad sign. So far, nothing the devs/designers have said indicates that they aren't targetting the 14 year-old boy crowd, and I just don't see how they're going to attract both that group and encourage female gamers at the same time. I'm almost positive they have something to address that, at least if Astrid's is any indication, but they certainly haven't given the impression that its actually there.
Reneshat 12-21-07, 03:27 AM	:rofl: Greenwood running a 3.5 game for me? Tell me, who do I have to kill for that? The game he is going to be running at DDXP is going to be 4ed. So apparently, while he might not be that well versed with 3.5, he is going to know 4ed. I wonder if he has one of the playtest groups....
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 03:39 AM	I dunno... I've been noticing a bit of a disconnect between the advertising guys and the devs/designers of late, particularly as far as the ads go in magazines and such. -I'm surprised that there are D&D adds, period. I can't remember seeing adds for D&D outside of things like DUNGEON, or DRAGON. The other day, I was reading Wizard, and 'Bam!', there was an add for the D&D Miniatures game. I think there was also an add in UNCANNY X-MEN as well. The game he is going to be running at DDXP is going to be 4ed. So apparently, while he might not be that well versed with 3.5, he is going to know 4ed. I wonder if he has one of the playtest groups.... -Well, 4e, as I understand it, is essentially 3e on steroids.
Reneshat 12-21-07, 03:56 AM	-Well, 4e, as I understand it, is essentially 3e on steroids. In a general sense, you are probably right. However it seems they are making changes to lots of minor things, such as AoO's that would make running the game different. So it could easily be that someone could run a 4ed game, and not be able to run a 3.5 game. Or I could be wrong. Really, only time will tell.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 04:00 AM	In a general sense, you are probably right. However it seems they are making changes to lot's of minor things, such as AoO's that would make running the game different. So it could easily be that someone could run a 4ed game, and not be able to run a 3.5 game. Or I could be wrong. Really, only time will tell. -From what I know, it's still the d20 system, a high AC is still good, a high To Hit is still good, stats are more or less the same...I'm sure it's fairly easy to have a basic idea of what's going on either going from 3e to 4e, or from 4e to 3e. It'll probably be harder for the person who learns 4e first to learn 3e, than for the person who knows 3e to learn 4e.
Stigger 12-21-07, 04:44 AM	-I'm surprised that there are D&D adds, period. I can't remember seeing adds for D&D outside of things like DUNGEON, or DRAGON. The other day, I was reading Wizard, and 'Bam!', there was an add for the D&D Miniatures game. I think there was also an add in UNCANNY X-MEN as well. -Well, 4e, as I understand it, is essentially 3e on steroids. Been seeing them in Games for Windows, a few history magazines I think, and a couple of others for almost a year now. Been for core, minis, and even a few with the AGHotR as the centerpiece. Was kinda odd seeing them really.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 04:48 AM	Been seeing them in Games for Windows, a few history magazines I think, and a couple of others for almost a year now. Been for core, minis, and even a few with the AGHotR as the centerpiece. Was kinda odd seeing them really. -Yeah, that sounds about right.
Alediran 12-21-07, 07:14 AM	They sound like Argentina's government, say one thing and do another completely different (I know, it's the same with most governments, but with the one we have is done every seccond)
GreenKnight 12-21-07, 07:16 AM	Don't cry for me Ar-gen-ti-naaaaa...
Stigger 12-21-07, 07:24 AM	Don't even joke about Evita, lest my wife notices and goes on incessantly about it... its her favorite musical. :blink:
Alediran 12-21-07, 08:45 AM	Don't even joke about Evita, lest my wife notices and goes on incessantly about it... its her favorite musical. :blink: :eek:. One of Evita's phrases was "Shoes yes, books no", which is reflected in the poor education and sheep mentality most of Argentina's population has in the present, educated people mostly resides in Buenos Aires and areas outside the Gran Buenos Aires West and South (if you ever come to argentina for vacations never go to those areas, or the northern states). She was a bastard and poor child who always resented those who had a little more fortune in life than her. An aunt of my girlfriend once insulted Evita, because she was favoring a group of people, who stole my girl's aunt house that she bought with much effort, and was kidnapped and tortured by Peron's government a couple days latter. Only poor and uneducated people think her as a saint, because she and her husband used the contry's resources and gave them to poor people (they gave fish without teaching how to catch it), and now, they became so addicted to asking for more without working for it, that we have a very serious problem with them, which is now increased because we are under a Peronist government who uses them as "shock troops", and are friends with Chavez (ugh...).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 11:21 AM	-I also find it funny that they call him the "Real Elminster". That probably making the "Ed is not Elminster" camp seeing red. They do so much to raise public awareness, and then stuff like this. Isn't this the second time the RPGA said something like that? Didn't a recent RPGA statement have something mentioning Ed is Elminster as well? Maybe--one of the regional writers for the Living Forgotten Realms said that Elminster is basically Ed Greenwood incarnate (which is wrong), but I don't remember if he was speaking on behalf of the RPGA in that message. Well, in any case the RPGA seems to think the same thing.:rolleyes: Geez, even the last issue of Dragon magazine tried to refute this old canard! But people seem to want to believe it, so it will probably be with us for quite some time.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 11:23 AM	Seems to be a stupid thing to get upset over... if Ed has a problem with it, its more his place to say something than anyone elses. He just doesn't strike me as a shrinking violet who's not willing to speak his mind, albeit in a polite as possible manner. Right, he probably doesn't care about every little instance this canard is mentioned, but he HAS refuted it more than once (including in Dragon magazine at least twice by my count).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 12:00 PM	Whether or not El is Ed, it is in WotC's best interest to distance this notion a bit in light of the anti-NPC mentality that WotC's market research seemingly uncovered prevalent amongst the majority of gamers. . I agree--the canard in question (Elminster is Ed Greenwood's way of living in the Realms vicariously) seems to be one of the main reasons why people start hating this character and assume that no matter what the PCs do, Elminster will always there to overshadow them ("because remember, he's Ed's way of going on a power trip!").
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 12:04 PM	So far, nothing the devs/designers have said indicates that they aren't targetting the 14 year-old boy crowd, and I just don't see how they're going to attract both that group and encourage female gamers at the same time. I'm almost positive they have something to address that, at least if Astrid's is any indication, but they certainly haven't given the impression that its actually there. I have to admit, other than the creation of Astrid's forum (which I wouldn't say is an unequivocally effective way of attracting female gamers, in fact from my trips in there it seems a bit divisive as well), I don't really see what, exactly, Wizards is doing differently this time to make their product seem more attractive to women.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 12:27 PM	:eek:. One of Evita's phrases was "Shoes yes, books no", which is reflected in the poor education and sheep mentality most of Argentina's population has in the present, educated people mostly resides in Buenos Aires and areas outside the Gran Buenos Aires West and South (if you ever come to argentina for vacations never go to those areas, or the northern states). She was a bastard and poor child who always resented those who had a little more fortune in life than her. An aunt of my girlfriend once insulted Evita, because she was favoring a group of people, who stole my girl's aunt house that she bought with much effort, and was kidnapped and tortured by Peron's government a couple days latter. Only poor and uneducated people think her as a saint, because she and her husband used the contry's resources and gave them to poor people (they gave fish without teaching how to catch it), and now, they became so addicted to asking for more without working for it, that we have a very serious problem with them, which is now increased because we are under a Peronist government who uses them as "shock troops", and are friends with Chavez (ugh...). -Well, that's pseudocommunism for you. It's interesting to hear it "straight from the horses mouth", for a lack of better words, though. I've always found it odd that many South American countries have this..."problem", whereas states with similar socioeconomic conditions don't- that is, a government that scorns the rich and educated and "loves" the poor and unskilled. You never see that in, say, Europe or Asia, in states that are very poor and have some experience in communism (the eastern bloc, for instance).
Alediran 12-21-07, 12:39 PM	-Well, that's pseudocommunism for you. It's interesting to hear it "straight from the horses mouth", for a lack of better words, though. I've always found it odd that many South American countries have this..."problem", whereas states with similar socioeconomic conditions don't- that is, a government that scorns the rich and educated and "loves" the poor and unskilled. You never see that in, say, Europe or Asia, in states that are very poor and have some experience in communism (the eastern bloc, for instance). Although this kind of life gives an advantage, we are so accustomed to "dodge bullets" that we have an almost instinctual ability to solve problems as fast as we can. The problem is that if this skill is abused you only get temporal solutions. But if someday I get the chance to live in Europe (Spain and England are my greatest options) I'll never look back (and I have the advantage of looking european :D). The south were I lived for fifteen years is a little better (boring too, if I want to see Iron Maiden I have to do it here) because it was colonized by Welsh immigrants who risked life and limb to live there. While I agree on some point of communism that are valid no matter the system you live in, I belive in a true democratic system where power is not held by a single person (Argentina's constitution is based on USA's but every single President has managed to virtualy destroy the division of power).
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 01:09 PM	(and I have the advantage of looking european :D). -Argentina was heavily influenced by the Spanish, the British, the Italians, and I think the Germans as well, so you probably have some European in you. EDIT: Wow, I checked Wikipedia, and it says that 86.4% to 97% of the country has a heritage that traces back to Europe. While I agree on some point of communism that are valid no matter the system you live in, I belive in a true democratic system where power is not held by a single person (Argentina's constitution is based on USA's but every single President has managed to virtualy destroy the division of power). -In theory, communism is a good thing. Everyone is equal, you don't have to worry about the basic things, etc. But, in practice, as we know from history, it is never like that. -Argentina actually looks like a really nice place- but, I guess only in the major cities, like Buenos Aires, as you were saying. Good food, nice climate, nice scenery. No baseball though. What are ya gonna do though?
Alediran 12-21-07, 01:25 PM	-Argentina was heavily influenced by the Spanish, the British, the Italians, and I think the Germans as well, so you probably have some European in you. EDIT: Wow, I checked Wikipedia, and it says that 86.4% to 97% of the country has a heritage that traces back to Europe. I'm actually Spanish/Italian (mi last name is Costa), but I also have a very remote drop of aborigin blood (that must be my druidic side :P) Wiki's article it surprisingly accurate (although lacking in some areas). -In theory, communism is a good thing. Everyone is equal, you don't have to worry about the basic things, etc. But, in practice, as we know from history, it is never like that. In theory every system is good, the problem is, like any plan when makes contact with the enemy, when you add humanity. -Argentina actually looks like a really nice place- but, I guess only in the major cities, like Buenos Aires, as you were saying. Good food, nice climate, nice scenery. No baseball though. What are ya gonna do though? No baseball (at least professionaly, I played a little when I was younger), but we have Basketball too (Manu Ginobilli is argentinian). Depending on what you want to do there is a city or town in argentina that suits a purpose. Puerto Madryn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Madryn) were I lived for fifteen years is famous for Whale sighting (turism it's the main industry). Bariloche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Carlos_de_Bariloche) is Aspen's equivalent (and they make a damm good chocolate in that city). Buenos Aires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buenos_Aires) can be compared to most big cities (and you can eat almost any kind of food you like, Chineese, Japanese, Mexican, Spanish, Italian (the most important), Arabian (I love it), Indian). It's not bad as you say, especialy to visit, but for people who work and try to do things right it's very complicated with all the problems. It's ironic because if these problems have never existed Argentina would be on par with Europe.
DM_Shonuff 12-21-07, 02:23 PM	Maybe he like the Richard Garriot and Lord British thing... ;) wow, that a Ultima Online refrence?
Stigger 12-21-07, 03:35 PM	Heh, She knows that Evita was a monster in a dress, she just loves the music... a tad bit too much if you ask me. ;) I have to admit, other than the creation of Astrid's forum (which I wouldn't say is an unequivocally effective way of attracting female gamers, in fact from my trips in there it seems a bit divisive as well), I don't really see what, exactly, Wizards is doing differently this time to make their product seem more attractive to women. True, it isn't the ideal sort of place to attract women, but its an effort at least... even if it is presented as something of an afterthought. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've been getting the feeling that Corporate and such is all for attracting women, and are really keen on getting them into the game, but that they're meeting resistance from the troops, as it were. Which isn't to say that dev/designer X or Y is a sexist pig or anything, more like they're being told to please groups A, B, & C, but group A hates everything that group C likes. My wife is under the impression that a lot of the attempted female draw is going to come with the Feywild stuff (chicks love fairies and unicorns and stuff afterall). Not sure how she meant that to be taken though... hard to tell with her sometimes.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 04:04 PM	True, it isn't the ideal sort of place to attract women, but its an effort at least... even if it is presented as something of an afterthought. True, but what comes immediately to my mind is that it immediately sets females apart into a distinct group of people amongst gamers, and when I post in this forum I don't really feel that way. That's just me though. I think my reasons for loving the Forgotten Realms, fantasy, and D&D probably aren't all that different from the reasons a lot of men like those things. I don't feel I need to be "catered to", and I think the very notion is actually a bit condescending. Also, the very nature of the forum we're talking about lends itself to heated political topics that I don't really care to get involved with here (I've seen it firsthand).:) Maybe I'm crazy, but I've been getting the feeling that Corporate and such is all for attracting women, and are really keen on getting them into the game, but that they're meeting resistance from the troops, as it were. Which isn't to say that dev/designer X or Y is a sexist pig or anything, more like they're being told to please groups A, B, & C, but group A hates everything that group C likes. What stands out in my mind as an example of sexism in the industry was in an issue from Dragon not too long ago--it wasn't even an article, it was an advertisement. Basically, it was a drawing of a man and a woman (presumably boyfriend and girlfriend), and it featured age-old sexist stereotypes (I don't remember the exact words, but it was explicitly about a difference between how a man and a woman would think)--something to the effect of how the girlfriend was concerned with domestic chores like cleaning off the kitchen table, whereas the guy was mainly looking forward playing a game! So men are just pigs and slackers, and women are there to clean up after them (not have any fun themselves, of course, not, fun is for men!).:rolleyes: I know a lot of magazines don't have much control over what advertisements they get, but I thought, "Wow, way to tell female readers that they picked up the wrong magazine and aren't welcome". My wife is under the impression that a lot of the attempted female draw is going to come with the Feywild stuff (chicks love fairies and unicorns and stuff afterall). Not sure how she meant that to be taken though... hard to tell with her sometimes. Maybe...but all that stuff (except for the name "Feywild") has always been in D&D.:) The question is, are they emphasizing it, and if so, how?
The Ubbergeek 12-21-07, 04:06 PM	wow, that a Ultima Online refrence? You do realise that the game is based on an older, classic PC games serie?
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 04:34 PM	Basically, it was a drawing of a man and a woman (presumably boyfriend and girlfriend), and it featured age-old sexist stereotypes (I don't remember the exact words, but it was explicitly about a difference between how a man and a woman would think)--something to the effect of how the girlfriend was concerned with domestic chores like cleaning off the kitchen table, whereas the guy was mainly looking forward playing a game! -Not to sound horrible or anything, but... -I wish!! :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 08:30 PM	-Not to sound horrible or anything, but... -I wish!! :D When I'm around, I'm the one who gives the orders!:)
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 08:43 PM	When I'm around, I'm the one who gives the orders!:) -That's the problem with you women these days. :P :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-21-07, 08:51 PM	-That's the problem with you women these days. :P :D Men tend not to mind...:)
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 10:31 PM	Men tend not to mind...:) -Eh, it depends on what exactly the orders are, and when and where they are given. But, that's enough of that...:cool:
Stigger 12-22-07, 11:37 AM	*wisely decides to hold tongue*
Lord Karsus 12-22-07, 01:59 PM	-Good choice. I'm sure Ed Greenwood, who is going to be at DDXP (whatever that even stands for), would be proud of all of us.
buzzard 12-22-07, 09:30 PM	...DDXP (whatever that even stands for) Dungeons & Dragons Experience?
Lord Karsus 12-23-07, 12:40 AM	-Maybe. :: Shrug ::
Butterface 12-23-07, 10:53 PM	Dungeons & Dragons Experience? Yes. The convention formerly known as "Winter Fantasy."
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 02:34 AM	-All I know is I got a few old Dungeon magazines by my Step-Father, and they have adds for the most awesomest convention ever: GenCon '93! :D -On a related note, I never liked the idea of Dungeon, with premade adventures and all, but since I have a few issues, I like it, actually. I'm going to implement one little sidequest (a group of theives pretending to be merchants, who sell "enchanted" weapons).
Fire_Wraith 12-25-07, 03:04 AM	Some of the most recent Dungeon issues (the last year or two) started getting into 'Adventure Paths', essentially serialized campaign adventures, along with a few other 'single-shot' or mini-arc ones in the same magazine. I really liked it, even if I could have made criticisms (I really liked seeing the old Isle of Dread remade into a huge epic campaign arc - now to find a group that wants to run it :D ) As for DDXP... oh, sweet! That's less than an hour's drive away, and I'll be back just in time for it. Absolutely perfect timing and location. And who knows, maybe I'll get lucky... :D As far as female gamers... I agree that they don't need catering to in terms of the game itself, there's sufficient room for everyone in terms of content, etc. What they do need, is targeted advertising, and other ways to convince female gamers and potential female gamers that D&D is something that is worth their time.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 03:35 AM	What they do need, is targeted advertising, and other ways to convince female gamers and potential female gamers that D&D is something that is worth their time. -If they're into swords, sorcerery, fantasy, and all that, I don't know why they wouldn't want to get into D&D, chainmail bikinis and all. I mean, it is the defining RPG game.
Fire_Wraith 12-25-07, 12:15 PM	A lot of people have certain impressions about D&D that aren't really true, but it can be hard to break those preconceived notions. "D&D is for geeky teenage boys that are socially inept/can't get a date" is the sort of stereotype that gets kicked around and perpetuated. It's a very negative stereotype that really has nothing to do with the majority of us. It can also be a turnoff to see people playing the Monty Haul/Diablo style CRPG play style - the one that focuses on killing monsters, taking their stuff, and having more powerful characters with cooler items, rather than actual roleplaying, character stories, storylines and plots, et cetera. Granted, people that are drawn to this sort of thing are much more likely today to play an MMO, but in the days prior to such things (like when I started playing, when I was in Third Grade) it was pretty common among younger players that weren't exposed to more complex styles of play. However, this is the pop culture view of D&D. At the risk of generalizing, I'd hazard to say that a lot of women are much more interested in the storytelling aspects, rather than the aforementioned accumulation of treasure and experience. Thus, to sell the game to such an audience, you would have to emphasize these aspects, rather than what (negative) things they've heard about D&D from word of mouth and pop culture. Update: Incidentally, I've signed up for both of the Living Realms/4th Edition games... whether or not I wind up with Ed as a GM, I'll definitely let you all know how it goes. I'm curious to see how the rules play, if nothing else. And who knows - maybe the 4e Realms really will be better than we think.
Reneshat 12-25-07, 01:45 PM	Update: Incidentally, I've signed up for both of the Living Realms/4th Edition games... whether or not I wind up with Ed as a GM, I'll definitely let you all know how it goes. I'm curious to see how the rules play, if nothing else. And who knows - maybe the 4e Realms really will be better than we think. Thanks, we look forward to your feedback.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-25-07, 02:32 PM	-If they're into swords, sorcerery, fantasy, and all that, I don't know why they wouldn't want to get into D&D, chainmail bikinis and all. I mean, it is the defining RPG game. I think you are both making good points here. Although, as I said before they need to watch the advertising, as it works on an emotional (not logical) level. Even if women are attracted to the game, anyway, it probably isn't helpful to have the kind of advertising I mentioned in an above post. :) It helps when ads show women playing the game (or similar types of games) as well--if ads only ever show men playing, it leaves the impression that D&D is a man's thing, even that's not a logical conclusion to draw.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 03:35 PM	Although, as I said before they need to watch the advertising, as it works on an emotional (not logical) level. Even if women are attracted to the game, anyway, it probably isn't helpful to have the kind of advertising I mentioned in an above post. :) It helps when ads show women playing the game (or similar types of games) as well--if ads only ever show men playing, it leaves the impression that D&D is a man's thing, even that's not a logical conclusion to draw. -Yeah, but...Nerf Gun commercials have predominantly young boys on their commercials. Would that stop you (general you) from playing with Nerf Guns? -Or, is it the stereotype that D&D is for the socially inept nerfs that "supposedly" keeps girls away (though, personally, in my circle of D&D players, there's 5 girls and 4 guys)?
Fire_Wraith 12-25-07, 04:01 PM	Rinonalyrna: Exactly - if there is nothing to dissuade people from misconceptions, or to somehow show them that their perceptions are not reality, then that might as well be reality for them. And no, it doesn't help at all to just reinforce the stereotype, rather than try and break it. I vastly prefer games with mixed-gender groups, because they're far more enjoyable and entertaining (my experience has been the quality of roleplaying is much higher overall, too). I think that they would be well served by trying to present the game as something played by both men and women, in a more normal setting, as opposed to the stereotypical group of socially inept ("geeky/nerdy") teenage males. LK: It's not just the advertising though, here - it's a matter of pop culture, and the general mass suggestions we get from that. Lots of women play World of Warcraft, but the stereotypical player everyone thinks of is still the teenage male. It's also a case where they may not immediately see the fun in it. A Nerf Gun commercial may only show young boys, but it something where the enjoyment is readily apparent to those inclined to it. However, look at how D&D is portrayed in the mass media... it's really not a positive thing to begin with. I'm not saying it keeps everyone away, but it is a hurdle. I expect if you asked, most of the women you play with were introduced to the game directly, by friends, and did not seek it out on their own. Many may have had to be persuaded to try it at first, before they realized how much fun it was.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-25-07, 04:20 PM	-Yeah, but...Nerf Gun commercials have predominantly young boys on their commercials. Would that stop you (general you) from playing with Nerf Guns? Not if I wanted one. But again, advertising isn't about logic.:) -Or, is it the stereotype that D&D is for the socially inept nerfs that "supposedly" keeps girls away (though, personally, in my circle of D&D players, there's 5 girls and 4 guys)? That might be part of it.