Post/Author/DateTime	Post
18DELTA 01-04-08, 01:42 AM	-I found this of at www.enworld.org . D&D 4th Edition News Ed Greenwood speaks about 4E Forgotten Realms in the latest issue of Kobold Quarterly; thanks to TerraDave for the following scoop: The latest issue of Kobold Quarterly; its the one with the “red angel”, which might still be “next issue” on the page). Has a long (~4500 word) interview with Ed Greenwood. In addition to confirming that he still has a day job at a public library and talking about the death of Lucifer and sex in the Realms, he also says a little on 4th edition: At the time I’m making this reply, I am somewhat limited in what I can say by the non-disclosure agreements I’ve signed with Wizards of the Coast, and even more limited by what I just don’t know yet. Since the start of the published Realms, there have been ongoing discussions about its future: events, large and small, that happen in novels and game products that “change” the setting, building its imaginary history (much of which, for those interested, was recently summarized in the Grand History of the Realms tome). I have usually been involved in those discussions, and for the past few years have been part of meetings and talk leading to something called “the Spellplague,” and what the Realms looks like after its arrival. There’s a lot of buzz among gamers about this right now, and no wonder. Change is always both exciting and upsetting, and those who care deeply about the Realms care deeply about what happens to it. But there is very little useful that I can say, other than these tidbits: in real life, and in any imaginary world trying to seem real, change happens. Constantly. I can’t tell you a lot of the details of the changes planned for the Realms because many details haven’t been decided yet, and because I’m frantically trying to write three novels first, so I can clear my mental decks and get to work on the new Realms. Many gamers play the mental “If I ran WotC” game. When I do it, I can say that left to my druthers, I wouldn’t have made any timeshifting changes in the Realms until I’d detailed a lot more of its geographical surface. That includes the other continents, all the gaps around the Heartlands where we have maps but not much else, in-depth noble family histories, legal codes, and religious observances. However, I don’t run WotC, and it would probably be a running disaster if I tried! I would never finish detailing this little corner and that little corner; the more I paint over and fill in, the harder it gets for new gamers and writers to feel at home to tell new stories. So my take right now is: wait and see. Must finish novels … must finish novels … The interview is fairly long (about 4,500 words), and it's well worth buying a copy Kobold Quarterly to read it. In the same issue Baur notes that the KQ will “move to broader newstand distribution”. -Its a partial quote, yet its pretty interesting. -Bold & Underscore added. -Any Thought's about it?
Jedi_Master_Trobon 01-04-08, 02:06 AM	Well it really does show how WotC and Ed Greenwood differ. Ed made the realms by detailing small parts and eventually a map formed. However, it was an incomplete map and no one could tell for sure what was going to be on it. As time went on he filled parts of it out and then other parts. Like any good DM or any good creator of a world he wanted to finish it someday. However, if he were to finish it then there would be less room for creative DMs. It's an interesting dilema and I agree with WotC for trying to make DMs able to make their own world more. However, even though wizards owns Forgotten Realms, it still feels wrong to make such drastic changes to them.
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 03:11 AM	-Meh, what's done is done.
The Ubbergeek 01-04-08, 03:13 AM	I find that he however admitted that his philosophy of design can, if he go the ful way (as in FR?), make things a bit not so easy on the beginners. So, he perhaps admitted they where not wrong on that aspect.
johnkretzer 01-04-08, 04:37 AM	I just picked up Ed's latest novel(non-FR), I think the jacket cover was very interesting. It is called The Dark Lord, in the Falconfar Saga. It seems to be about a fantasy author who's control of his created fantasy world is being taken from his control by 'a brooding cabal of evil.' I am not saying he isn't behind the 4th edition Realms(they paid him alot of money probably)...but I think there is still pain in what they are doing to it.
Stigger 01-04-08, 06:59 AM	Didn't know he wrote outside of the Realms...
MerrikCale 01-04-08, 09:48 AM	Didn't know he wrote outside of the Realms... He has written several novels. I am not a fan myself. I did not like the Band of Four novels but they were generally liked.
Rauric 01-04-08, 10:13 AM	I just picked up Ed's latest novel(non-FR), I think the jacket cover was very interesting. It is called The Dark Lord, in the Falconfar Saga. It seems to be about a fantasy author who's control of his created fantasy world is being taken from his control by 'a brooding cabal of evil.' I am not saying he isn't behind the 4th edition Realms(they paid him alot of money probably)...but I think there is still pain in what they are doing to it. This also could be aimed at TSR as well. They really screwed whith alot of his ideas it seems.
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 11:23 AM	It seems to be about a fantasy author who's control of his created fantasy world is being taken from his control by 'a brooding cabal of evil.' -That's some very poignant passive protest. This also could be aimed at TSR as well. They really screwed whith alot of his ideas it seems. -I doubt this, because, if so, it seems to me that this sort of passive protest would have been made a while ago, and the heyday of TSR was over ten years ago, now.
The Ubbergeek 01-04-08, 12:43 PM	Didn't know he wrote outside of the Realms... He also made some non-Realms game material. Originally Posted by johnkretzer It seems to be about a fantasy author who's control of his created fantasy world is being taken from his control by 'a brooding cabal of evil.' Kind of like a Take That, to quote the tv trope website. :rolleyes:
johnkretzer 01-04-08, 01:43 PM	This also could be aimed at TSR as well. They really screwed whith alot of his ideas it seems. You could be right. It could be just about when anyone gives their intellectual properties to someone else. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't. Though I think WotC is doing alot more of it.
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 01:45 PM	He also made some non-Realms game material. -He has his own campaign setting...Castlemorn, or Castlemourn.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 02:01 PM	Like any good DM or any good creator of a world he wanted to finish it someday. However, if he were to finish it then there would be less room for creative DMs. It's an interesting dilema and I agree with WotC for trying to make DMs able to make their own world more. I agree. On one hand I love Ed Greenwood's detail, but on the other hand I think there is a such thing as too much detail. I think I'll buy this issue (and maybe others) of KQ.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 02:04 PM	I am not saying he isn't behind the 4th edition Realms(they paid him alot of money probably)...but I think there is still pain in what they are doing to it. Someone on Candlekeep mused that Ed probably got "a dump truck full of money" for working on the 4E Realms, and was quickly (but gently) corrected by Ed's go-between, the Hooded One: he isn't getting paid very much, necessarily, he's doing it mainly because he loves the setting and does in fact consider many people at WotC friends.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 02:06 PM	He has written several novels. I am not a fan myself. I did not like the Band of Four novels but they were generally liked. Yes, he writes non-FR novels, and he's also created other campaign settings (like one called "Castlemourn").
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 02:29 PM	Someone on Candlekeep mused that Ed probably got "a dump truck full of money" for working on the 4E Realms, and was quickly (but gently) corrected by Ed's go-between, the Hooded One: he isn't getting paid very much, necessarily, he's doing it mainly because he loves the setting and does in fact consider many people at WotC friends.:) -In this hobby, I don't think anyone is getting "dump truck fulls" of money, except for the WotC/Hasbro suits- and, truthfully, I wouldn't count them as members of the hobby, anyway.
The Ubbergeek 01-04-08, 03:01 PM	(Just to quip in, and as shown by gygax (a lousy businessman by his own admission)... They are somehow a part of the hobby - gaming is also an industry, and you need cash to produce all those cool and groovy game books...)
MerrikCale 01-04-08, 03:39 PM	Yes, he writes non-FR novels, and he's also created other campaign settings (like one called "Castlemourn"). Which I have not seen, have you? I will say he is a brillant game designer/creator, novelist not really my taste. But hey, I liked Bloodwalk right
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 03:45 PM	I will say he is a brillant game designer/creator, novelist not really my taste. But hey, I liked Bloodwalk right -Well, I agree, so your opinion isn't that wacky. -The problem with his writing, I bet, isn't the way he writes, but the stories. Most of his writing deals somehow with Elminster, or a specific part of the Realms. When "freed" from that, he's probably better.
msatran 01-04-08, 04:15 PM	Actually, I preferred Ed's supplements to his novels. His supplements contain cool little details that allow people to make their games more interesting. His novels, by contrast, wind up with too many of those same details, thus leading to purple prose, a writing technique that I refer to as "Unnecessary landscaping," where the purple prose gets out of control with the descriptions of objects, and accidental reveals that ruin years of DM plotting. An old wooden chair is still just an old wooden chair. I like Ed much better when he's NOT writing novels in the Realms, but I do want to see the plummeting doom of the "Brooding Cabal of Evil!"
MerrikCale 01-04-08, 04:23 PM	- -The problem with his writing, I bet, isn't the way he writes, but the stories. Most of his writing deals somehow with Elminster, or a specific part of the Realms. When "freed" from that, he's probably better. wrong. His dialogue is frankly terrible and unrealistic. His descriptive narratives are adequate although often too long. And don't get me started on how many bleeping characters ar thrown into his books for no reason and how unmemorable (or un-pronouncable) they are.
MarkusTay63 01-04-08, 07:02 PM	Actually, if you read his 'musings' in The Annotated Elminster, Ed explains his writing style very well. He writes all of his novels in the same manner as sourcebooks, because he considers them to be so. He purposely mentions odd items, places, and characters that have no function within the plot because he wants someone else to take them up and make them their own. He created the Shrinshee with the idea that she was just a very old, powerful Elven Sorceress... and then Steven schend took off with the concept and turned her into something special (which delighted Ed no end). In Elminster in Myth Drannor, he mentions a fallen Elven House called Dlardrageth... and "many others have run miles with". Designers, authors, and even DMs take up all of those juicy little tidbits Ed offers, and create the Realms around them. If you remember, even the Spellplague is based on a 'little something' he put into the 1e Grey Box - something he has referred to before as a "hidden nugget of lore". Now, he probably never had the Spellplague in mind, but someone took what he wrote and ran with it once again. Ed isn't just the creator of the Realms - he is its SPRINGBOARD. Many of the designers/authors CONFER with him before adding something new, to get his take. Ed may not be at the Helm anymore, but he's still somewhere down in the engine room keeping the whole thing chugging along. His own setting is Castlemourn (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=12630), and you can read a preview of it on that link. I haven't gotten it yet, but I plan to - I hear it is EXCELLENT. -Many gamers play the mental “If I ran WotC” game. When I do it, I can say that left to my druthers, I wouldn’t have made any timeshifting changes in the Realms until I’d detailed a lot more of its geographical surface. The fact that he uses the term "Timeshift", rather then just 'advancing the Timeline' makes me wonder once again if they plan on changing the past. :confused:
MerrikCale 01-04-08, 09:39 PM	just because he has an explanation for it means that its good
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 10:39 PM	Which I have not seen, have you? I haven't seen Castlemourn in stores yet, no. :-/ You can get it online though.
Lord Karsus 01-05-08, 12:35 AM	wrong. His dialogue is frankly terrible and unrealistic. His descriptive narratives are adequate although often too long. And don't get me started on how many bleeping characters ar thrown into his books for no reason and how unmemorable (or un-pronouncable) they are. -Yes, which is why I say that if you seperate him from the Realms, with characters like Elminster, or Fiferiel (Sp?), or the Srinshee, you'll wind up with more palatable stuff.
Rauric 01-05-08, 08:09 AM	You could be right. It could be just about when anyone gives their intellectual properties to someone else. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't. Though I think WotC is doing alot more of it. Could be. He has a right to vent in his own way if he wants. I think it could be a slam on corporate RPG perhaps. That is why I throw TSR in there as well. They were the first to bring his world to "life" but also change it significantly. They also had fun editing the hell out of his novels. If he is truthful there maybe that is one reason I hate Spellfire. ;)
MarkusTay63 01-05-08, 11:22 AM	ALL of the designers/authors complain about the shear amount of lore that winds up "on the cutting room floor" - thats why we started getting 'web-enhancements'. The writers wanted to see what they wrote being used somewhere, rather then it all just getting thrown away. There are two kinds of writers; ones who can write (proper grammer and all that), and those that can tell a heck of a story. I personally feel Ed falls into the latter. Several writers for WotC fall into the former category; they are good writers, but what they write puts me to sleep. Everything is so linear it reads like a Math textbook. It's rare when someone can both write well and spin a decent yarn - thats when we call it 'literature'. ;) @Merrikale: Do you go to Candlekeep? Notice that the "Ask Ed" thread is always the hugest and busiest. Thats because of all those 'open ends' you say you hate. The other authors threads aren't anywhere near as long, because they don't fill their novels with all kinds of interesting stuff that we want to know more about. Say what you want, but the Realms are 'alive' because of Ed. Other settings are too stagnant to keep anyone's interest for long periods of time. BTW, up until a few months ago I would have agreed with you, but now that I "get it", I enjoy his writing much more. More on Topic: Nobody else finds his use of words regarding 'time' a bit strange? :confused:
Lord Karsus 01-05-08, 12:29 PM	@Merrikale: Do you go to Candlekeep? Notice that the "Ask Ed" thread is always the hugest and busiest. Thats because of all those 'open ends' you say you hate. The other authors threads aren't anywhere near as long, because they don't fill their novels with all kinds of interesting stuff that we want to know more about. -That's also because people ask him an assortment of other questions, such as (I'm being facecious here), "Ed, in Cloak and Dagger, is that a misspelling? Is it supposed to be "Elminster eats 'cat sandwiches', or 'bat sandwiches'? A lot of other authors, such as Elaine, deflect any questions they don't feel comfortable answering to Ed, since he has the 'final say'.
MarkusTay63 01-05-08, 04:48 PM	True, but he is the one that usually created the ORIGINAL lore around which any future lore was wrapped, so he would be the one who would know (or make-up on the spot, which I'm sure happens when he answers those questions) the details about such things. Do you think he'll ever write Elminster: The Making of a Munchkin? :P
Lord Karsus 01-05-08, 04:51 PM	Do you think he'll ever write Elminster: The Making of a Munchkin? :P -No, but if a disgruntled anti-Forgotten Realms person ever did, I'd read it.
MarkusTay63 01-06-08, 01:46 AM	I think Ed would probaly enjoy writing it himself - he has a good sense of humor, ya know. :D I'm not big on Munchkins... I'm more of an 'Oompah-Loompah' man myself. ;)
johnkretzer 01-06-08, 03:52 AM	Could be. He has a right to vent in his own way if he wants. I think it could be a slam on corporate RPG perhaps. That is why I throw TSR in there as well. They were the first to bring his world to "life" but also change it significantly. They also had fun editing the hell out of his novels. If he is truthful there maybe that is one reason I hate Spellfire. ;) Well lets put it this way..I personaly think he started getting feeling of regrets with the ToT...but that is just my guess. What is this about Spellfire? I enjoyed the first book alot...the second one was meh...and I never read the third one(too many books and soo little time) and after I have heard how it ended I really have no inbterest to. If you can send me a PM about what they did.
Kenzuki 01-06-08, 07:36 AM	Why does there seem to be so much negativity about the Time of Troubles? I personally think it's one of the most cooler things in fantasy that I've read. Gods becoming semi-mortal and fighting ala Highlander.
captaincarot 01-06-08, 10:24 AM	Why does there seem to be so much negativity about the Time of Troubles? I personally think it's one of the most cooler things in fantasy that I've read. Gods becoming semi-mortal and fighting ala Highlander. why does everyone keep banging on about the time of troubles being similar to highlander, it aint. it was a load if big crybabies sqabbling. now the bhallspawn incident that is on the other hand straight highlander, there can be only one, they all go killin each other and nicking each others power for the big prize at the end.
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 10:42 AM	Why does there seem to be so much negativity about the Time of Troubles? I personally think it's one of the most cooler things in fantasy that I've read. Gods becoming semi-mortal and fighting ala Highlander. -It introduced a lot of concepts that were not very Realmsian, and it created a lot of holes in lore. -All in all, I enjoyed the series, mostly. The premise behind it is cool. I would have tweaked it here and there, to prevent/counteract a lot of the lore holes.
MarkusTay63 01-06-08, 12:36 PM	Are lore-holes like A-holes? Or does one somehow create the other? :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-06-08, 04:48 PM	now the bhallspawn incident that is on the other hand straight highlander, there can be only one, they all go killin each other and nicking each others power for the big prize at the end. Not necessarily--Bhaal himself intended to come back, not be replaced.
MarkusTay63 01-06-08, 07:06 PM	What if two were left at the end, instead of one? Would we then have a pair of Bhaals? :confused:
Old Sage 01-06-08, 07:31 PM	Why does there seem to be so much negativity about the Time of Troubles? I personally think it's one of the most cooler things in fantasy that I've read. Gods becoming semi-mortal and fighting ala Highlander.One of the main issues many readers have with the Time of Troubles, comes directly from a reading of the "Avatar" trilogy. The depiction of the gods in the "Avatar" novels is literary licence: it doesn't match the deities as conceived elsewhere in Realmslore and shouldn't be taken as definitive of them.
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 07:40 PM	What if two were left at the end, instead of one? Would we then have a pair of Bhaals? :confused: -Yes.
Kenzuki 01-06-08, 08:27 PM	One of the main issues many readers have with the Time of Troubles, comes directly from a reading of the "Avatar" trilogy. The depiction of the gods in the "Avatar" novels is literary licence: it doesn't match the deities as conceived elsewhere in Realmslore and shouldn't be taken as definitive of them. I liked how the gods were portrayed though....They seemed real to me, not just some distant abstract concepts that you don't really care about. I like how Bane and all the others were. Though Cyric was an A-hole, but if a character can actually make me hate him then he's good in my opinion.
MerrikCale 01-06-08, 09:26 PM	@Merrikale: Do you go to Candlekeep? Notice that the "Ask Ed" thread is always the hugest and busiest. Thats because of all those 'open ends' you say you hate. The other authors threads aren't anywhere near as long, because they don't fill their novels with all kinds of interesting stuff that we want to know more about. Say what you want, but the Realms are 'alive' because of Ed. Other settings are too stagnant to keep anyone's interest for long periods of time. BTW, up until a few months ago I would have agreed with you, but now that I "get it", I enjoy his writing much more. I'm not sure what you mean. I did not criticize or even mention the "open ends" you speak of. I never once said he told bad stories. I just think technically he is a poor fiction writer. There is no question is a brillant game designer and a genius in terms of creating myth. I just feel his dialogue is poor and he has way too many characters in his stories.
MarkusTay63 01-06-08, 09:35 PM	Aaahhh... okay, but the extra characters fall into that 'loose ends' category I was talking about. He doesn't develop every single thing or person he mentions, because he hopes someone else will use it. Thats just the way he is - I don't think I would enjoy that OUTSIDE of a game setting, but within the shared world that is FR, I love it. But yeah... no one talks like El... not even in a fantsy world...
Rauric 01-07-08, 10:16 AM	The Avatar series and Drizzt books were my first trip into FR. So I am not bothered by either too much. I liked the idea of Avatars. I still do. It is the deep look into the gods lives which now bother me. The Avatar series bother me now for it's portrayal of Storm though. I am glad I picked up Stormlight though. My favorite Ed book is EL: MoM. The El novel where he hangs with the Elves is 2nd. The Spellfire made me cry as did Silverfall. I thought with the 1st two books I mentioned he just really worked on El and fleshed him out well. It was a story about El. The other books he has written seem to go everywhere and focus on everyone and basically I just didn't like that. I personally did not think he did a good job of handling multiple characters. This is all my opinion of course. ;)
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 10:21 AM	EL:MoM was hard to finish for me due to Ed Greenwood's style of Writting. Salvator's I can just eat up though as it's not boring, though Drizzt's whiny emo attitude is annoying.
MarkusTay63 01-07-08, 10:33 AM	The first time I tried to read E:MoM I couldn't - I wasn't as into FR as I am now, and I just didn't like it. I think I stopped reading after the first chapter or so. Now that I've gotten it again in tAE, I was able to get through it quickly. I guess it depends on how much of a fan of the setting you are to enjoy them. Anyhow, I loved RAS's writing when I first started reading him, but now everything is getting rather redundant. The silly Dwarves (ALL of them!) are getting on my nerves, and I find myself skipping ANYTHING in italics (all those whiney-emo cut-scenes). I don't care how Drizzt feels about the foes he kills... did Conan? I just want him to slice and dice them with those cute little swords of his. The fight scenes are something I've always enjoyed with RAS, but now not so much. I find myself skipping through a lot of them, as well. Without the emo-stuff and the fight scenes, I find I can get through a RAS novel in about two hours! Now Artemis is becoming 'introspective' as well... <sigh> I don't know if my tastes for that sort of thing are 'maturing', or whatever, but I grow weary of the never-ending combat. I'm looking forward to reading the The Orc King, just to see how RAS (who I feel is a good writer) can handle building a kingdom, rather then just killing monsters. He needs to get out of the box he has painted himself into, and explore the political side of the Realms.
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 10:39 AM	My first FR salvator book was The Thousand Orcs. I got it cause I heard that this "Drizzit" character was cool plus the cover looked awesome. But halfway through the book I realized "Wait...what the hell are talking about!?" So I put the book down. Then the new covered Legend of Drizzt novels started to come out so I started with the begining. So that's what I'm doing now I guess. I've got the Dark Elf Trilogy and the Icewind Dale Trilogy. I'm waiting for them all to come out in softcover and collecting them that way. Now I DID read Servant of the Shard before I ever read the Icewind Dale Trilogy, and I fell in love with Jarlaxle and Entreri so that's a plus. I've got Promise of the Witch King and Road of the Patriarch too. Ah hell let me just list the FR novels I do have hehe. Dark Elf Trilogy Icewind Dale Trilogy The Thousand Orcs The Avatar Trilogy (need to get Prince of Lies and Crucible now) Servant of the Shard Promise of the Witch King Road of the Patriarch Elminster: MoM I just ordered the first two War of the Spider Queen novels too! Any other good ones you suggest?
Rauric 01-07-08, 10:47 AM	The Finder's Stone Trilogy was a great read for me. It was done by Geff Grubb and Kate Knovak.
MarkusTay63 01-07-08, 10:47 AM	War of the Spider Queen was very... chaotic... :rolleyes: Assume the followong - after the last page in each book, a big hairy monster EATS the main characters, and a nearby Deepspawn spits out a bunch of duplicates with completely different personalities - then start the next book. I hope that helps ease the pain, somehwat... You got to like Artemis BEFORE meeting Drizzt? How does that work out? Artemis's entire character development happens during his contention with Drizzt, so you sold your self a bit short, there. I hope you didn't ruin it for yourself. :(
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 11:30 AM	War of the Spider Queen was very... chaotic... :rolleyes: Assume the followong - after the last page in each book, a big hairy monster EATS the main characters, and a nearby Deepspawn spits out a bunch of duplicates with completely different personalities - then start the next book. I hope that helps ease the pain, somehwat... You got to like Artemis BEFORE meeting Drizzt? How does that work out? Artemis's entire character development happens during his contention with Drizzt, so you sold your self a bit short, there. I hope you didn't ruin it for yourself. :( Actually it's kinda fun reading the older Drizzt novels as they come out in new format and then seeing how Artemis used to be. And this way I don't worry about him dieing lol.
Lord Karsus 01-07-08, 11:51 AM	-I'd never be able to start reading a book, and then just stop.
MerrikCale 01-07-08, 08:16 PM	but the extra characters fall into that 'loose ends' category I was talking about. OK. But like you said, Ed writes novels like a sourcebook. Which is fine except that makes for a bad novel
Kenzuki 01-08-08, 08:14 AM	-I'd never be able to start reading a book, and then just stop. I just couldn't finish The Thousand Orcs cause I didn't know what the hell was going on with the characters lol. "Ok...so is the irish girl with the bow in love with the big barbarian or the dark elf???"
MarkusTay63 01-08-08, 12:35 PM	Ummmm... she likes the Elf better, but he has... ummm... "Elfy" problems... :rolleyes: In other words, the Barbarian is hittin' it hard. ;)
Rauric 01-08-08, 04:30 PM	That plot hook should have been settled 5 books ago.
Kenzuki 01-08-08, 05:35 PM	I also got the impression that Catti-Brie was for lack of a better word "loose" by the way she was going back and forth between the two males. Of course I've since found out that she didn't really get intimate with Drizzt until the Two Swords or whatever. I kinda assumed she and Wulfgar got intimate but I've only read up to the Halfing's Gem so what do I know? Then again I've also been told in Realms mindset it's ok to commit adultery as long as no child comes of it. As backward and strange as that sounds to me...
Lord Karsus 01-08-08, 05:51 PM	Then again I've also been told in Realms mindset it's ok to commit adultery as long as no child comes of it. As backward and strange as that sounds to me... -Some places see it as permissable, while other's don't. In this particuar situation, I think that kind of thing should technically be 'out of character' for Cattie-Brie. She was raised by Dwarves, who place a heavy emphasis on honor, the family, and those kinds of concepts. While she didn't exactly do this, cheating on one for the other, or whatever, isn't exactly a Dwarven-like thing. And Cattie-Brie, is, at least in mindset, a Dwarf.
Dark Wizard 01-08-08, 09:00 PM	Then again I've also been told in Realms mindset it's ok to commit adultery as long as no child comes of it. As backward and strange as that sounds to me... None of them were married though. It's not any stranger than any relationship today (or even back in the day in some instances).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-08-08, 09:18 PM	Catti-brie was never depicted as a "loose woman", either. The Drizzt/Cattie-brie/Wulfgar romancing was always very coy and squeaky clean, to the point of being ridiculous (in my opinion).
Kenzuki 01-08-08, 09:23 PM	Yeah like I said that's just what I thought at the time when I first tried to read it and read that she's involved with both of them or something. I know better now hehe. I like her character alot better now that I've read the Icewind Dale Trilogy. Though Wulfgar gets on my nerves.
MarkusTay63 01-08-08, 11:13 PM	Catti-brie was never depicted as a "loose woman", either. The Drizzt/Cattie-brie/Wulfgar romancing was always very coy and squeaky clean, to the point of being ridiculous (in my opinion).C'mon... she was flirting with Artemis... you know it. She has a thing for guys that kill easily. :devil:
Kenzuki 01-08-08, 11:21 PM	oh my god she hit on Artemis too!? I guess she didn't get enough of his sweet self in Streams of Silver where he backhanded her like 5 times because of her sharp tongue. Don't blame him by the way she was being annoying.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-09-08, 12:34 PM	Heh. On that note, I'm pretty sure Catti-brie hated Artemis, and I don't recall her flirting with him even in an attempt to mislead him (which is a pretty common plot device). Then again, it's been a looooong while since I read those novels.
MarkusTay63 01-09-08, 01:13 PM	When they were escaping Menzo and saving Drizzt, together, they seemed to be hitting it off pretty darn good, and toward the end there was a lot of 'begrudging respect' going on. Maybe thats not the same as 'like', but when I was reading that novel, I thought that was the way RAS was going to go with those two characters - you know, the classic "girl sees some good in the man, and changes him for the better" plot. It didn't go that way - not entirely - but Artemis had to re-think a few things when he realized there was no-one who was ever going to go into a Drow city - alone - and rescue him! That was a turning point for him, and after that he went and got himself some friends - that halfling girl, and later Jarlaxle (who he knew, but didn't actually become friends with until a later book).
Faraer 01-09-08, 07:26 PM	I'd like to encourage everyone who wants high-quality D&D articles like wot Dragon used to be -- including so far an article by Ed on city adventuring and this long interview -- to go to http://www.koboldquarterly.com/ and subscribe. There's much more in Ed's interview than quoted above. Wolfgang Baur recently talked about his magazine here (http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/2008/01/enter-the-kobol.html).