| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Snarkbone09-01-05, 02:59 PM | I must really be getting blind in my old age, but I can't seem to find any info on Elf-Drow war or whatever it was that got Drow dumped into the Underdark. When did it happen? Was it before or after Netherise fell? What was that "inadvertant" help that Eilistraee gave the evil Drow that got her banished with them, but then redeemed? And in general where (in all the vast Faerun) and how did the fight take place (what kind of magic/spells/melee battles)? I always just accepted "well they faught and drow lost" as an argument and never thought about details, so was that ever discussed by Ed or whoever in some publication? Thanx a lot in advance. |
| Weiser_Cain09-01-05, 03:06 PM | They weren't drow until they lost the Crown Wars. I think I got the story from Lost empires of Faerun but I could be wrong. |
| Kuje3109-01-05, 03:09 PM | Lost Empires and 2e's Cormanthyr:Empires of the Elves sourcebook. The Evermeet novel also has a bit. |
| Alac Luin09-01-05, 04:46 PM | Cormanthor: Empire of Elves is available as a free Download on Wizards Classic Downloads page. Evermeet (the novel) is a great sorce of information also. When did it happen? Was it before or after Netherise fell? What was that "inadvertant" help that Eilistraee gave the evil Drow that got her banished with them, but then redeemed? And in general where (in all the vast Faerun) and how did the fight take place (what kind of magic/spells/melee battles)? The banishment of the Lolth, Eli, and Vhaeraun and the Desent of the Drow are not the same thing. The banishment of Eilistraee and the other drow deities happened LOOONG before the crown wars. Eilistraee did nothing wrong, but chose to be banished to serve as a beacon to good drow (who at that time were not known as Drow). EDIT: I made a mistake, she did do something, see below. |
| Aylomeizen09-01-05, 06:16 PM | You'd have to look into 2nd Edition books, as the 3rd Edition books really don't carry as much weight regarding this backstory. |
| Slime Lord09-01-05, 07:00 PM | Cormanthor: Empire of Elves is available as a free Download on Wizards Classic Downloads page. Evermeet (the novel) is a great sorce of information also. The banishment of the Lolth, Eli, and Vhaeraun and the Desent of the Drow are not the same thing. The banishment of Eilistraee and the other drow deities happened LOOONG before the crown wars. Eilistraee did nothing wrong, but chose to be banished to serve as a beacon to good drow (who at that time were not known as Drow). Who, some now believe, is secretly back in the Seldarine Pantheon along with the Faerun Pantheon ;) |
| Alac Luin09-02-05, 12:01 AM | Who, some now believe, is secretly back in the Seldarine Pantheon along with the Faerun Pantheon ;) Well, since she doesn't get along with her mom and brother, can ya blame a girl for wanting to be close to her dad? As for the "Faerun Pantheon" thing, well she is gaining popularity with half elves, humans, and other races. But, true, she seams to not have kept her distance. |
| Zanan09-02-05, 08:47 AM | I always just accepted "well they faught and drow lost" as an argument and never thought about details, so was that ever discussed by Ed or whoever in some publication? Vendui! As has been said, you can download Cormanthyr here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads) for free and the book is still one of the best sources. Some details have been brushed up in Lost Empires of Faerűn. And while we are at it, the dark elves did not actually lose, they were cheated by the prime deity ;) (Never tell the lovers of the treehuggers though, they will deny it till Ragnarok.) |
| dragonheart09-02-05, 10:15 AM | The banishment of Eilistraee and the other drow deities happened LOOONG before the crown wars.Eilistraee did nothing wrong, but chose to be banished to serve as a beacon to good drow (who at that time were not known as Drow). when trying to match diefic events to prime material time lines its sort of iffy ;) however I think these two did sort of go together in time Araushnee's being named Tanari'i and cast out of arvandor is supposed to be linked to her followers being turned into drow and cast into the underdark at the end of the 4th Crown War. Elistraee was tricked by her mother (Lolth/Aurashnee) into shooting her father and nearly killing him so it can't really be said taht she did nothing wrong but it was not her intent to shoot her father and she was able to prove it and (I believe) helped in the fighting afterwards on her father's side which is why she was allowed to remain in Arvandor if she wanted. it is true she chose to leave and act as a beacon for nonevil drow and others on the edge of elven society. |
| Slime Lord09-02-05, 10:38 AM | when trying to match diefic events to prime material time lines its sort of iffy ;) however I think these two did sort of go together in time Araushnee's being named Tanari'i and cast out of arvandor is supposed to be linked to her followers being turned into drow and cast into the underdark at the end of the 4th Crown War. Elistraee was tricked by her mother (Lolth/Aurashnee) into shooting her father and nearly killing him so it can't really be said taht she did nothing wrong but it was not her intent to shoot her father and she was able to prove it and (I believe) helped in the fighting afterwards on her father's side which is why she was allowed to remain in Arvandor if she wanted. it is true she chose to leave and act as a beacon for nonevil drow and others on the edge of elven society. Actually, I believe her arrow was redirected from her mother to her father. Correct me someone if I am wrong. |
| dragonheart09-02-05, 03:41 PM | you may well be right - its been a while since I read the story. I think the arrows were created by aurashnee to severly hurt gods and she (Lolth) told Ellistraee to fire at Gruumsh or someone and then lolth used the magic she had emplaced to take control and redirect the arrow - or something like that :rolleyes: anyway - Elistraee firees an arrow at the elven opponents and Lolth redirects it to hit Correllon. Ellistraee initially takes the blame but is able to prove her innocence in the end but takes over the role she has now as atonement for her unintentional involvement. |
| Snarkbone09-02-05, 04:01 PM | hey guys, thanx for all the help and links. sorry I kinda abandoned this thread, I couldn't get to the baords since yesterday :confused: now I'm back though, and thanx again! |
| shades of eternity09-02-05, 04:02 PM | were they black before or after the underdark. I keep toying with the idea of a small group of wild elves that didn't chicken out that are descended from the same bloodline (al la grell from hackmaster). |
| Snarkbone09-02-05, 04:05 PM | were they black before or after the underdark. I keep toying with the idea of a small group of wild elves that didn't chicken out that are descended from the same bloodline (al la grell from hackmaster). from what I understand from the Lost Empires, the banishment and turning dark are the same action of Corellon, he turned them dark and told them to get off the surface. |
| Weiser_Cain09-02-05, 04:20 PM | Racist |
| warlockco09-02-05, 05:32 PM | were they black before or after the underdark. I keep toying with the idea of a small group of wild elves that didn't chicken out that are descended from the same bloodline (al la grell from hackmaster). The magic that affected all the Ssri-tel-quessir (Drow) was supposed to only affect those that lived within the nation of Ilythiir, however for some strange reason, ALL Ssri-tel-quessir were affected. Thus all Drow were punished for the actions of one nation. |
| Alac Luin09-02-05, 06:27 PM | from what I understand from the Lost Empires, the banishment and turning dark are the same action of Corellon, he turned them dark and told them to get off the surface. They were "almost black" before the desent, the desent darkened them up a little to the "Ebony" they are now. |
| Snarkbone09-02-05, 08:26 PM | They were "almost black" before the desent, the desent darkened them up a little to the "Ebony" they are now. Unfortunatley inconravertible laws of nature contradict you, if anything they were even darker before the discent and then got lighter in the Underdark. Light deprevation bleaches the skin, it doesn't darken it. It is probably only the curse of Corellon that keeps them from turning deatly white. |
| Kuje3109-02-05, 09:21 PM | Unfortunatley inconravertible laws of nature contradict you, if anything they were even darker before the discent and then got lighter in the Underdark. Light deprevation bleaches the skin, it doesn't darken it. It is probably only the curse of Corellon that keeps them from turning deatly white. Except the laws of nature don't apply. They were dark grey before the descent and then they turned black/ebony from the curse. Living underground has nothing to do with it. :) |
| Snarkbone09-02-05, 10:09 PM | Except the laws of nature don't apply. They were dark grey before the descent and then then turned black/ebony from the curse. Living underground has nothing to do with it. :) black/ebony? then why do they keep depicting them as gray? I thought that was their current colour (all the War of the Spider Queen covers have ash-gray drow) |
| Kuje3109-02-05, 10:14 PM | black/ebony? then why do they keep depicting them as gray? I thought that was their current colour (all the War of the Spider Queen covers have ash-gray drow) Because in 1 sourcebook out of all the sourcebooks that drow are discussed, going all the way back to 1e, drow have always been black/ebony. Underdark is the ONLY sourcebook where WOTC changed thier skin tones because, and yes I discussed it with Rich, the artists have had/are having a hard time drawing them because they are black/ebony. Even the 3e and 3.5e MM's says that they are black/ebony, as does 2e's, and Unearthed Arcana from 1e. So in summary, the only reason Underdark gave them different skin tones is because of the artists. |
| warlockco09-02-05, 10:19 PM | black/ebony? then why do they keep depicting them as gray? I thought that was their current colour (all the War of the Spider Queen covers have ash-gray drow) Because if they were done with BLACK skin, it would be next to impossible to show any detail at all. I know when I paint minis of Drow, I don't give them Black skin, I give them a very dark brown, because. Personally I like the trend of Dark Elves being shown with skin ranging from gray-black to dark-brown to blue-gray/blue-black. 1) with black skin, you can't tell their skin from their outfits 2) black doesn't show detail very well. Also in the OLD Lore, Drow were often described as having Indigo skin, which is a shade of blue. |
| Snarkbone09-02-05, 10:21 PM | Because in 1 sourcebook out of all the sourcebooks that drow are discussed, going all the way back to 1e, drow have always been black/ebony. Underdark is the ONLY sourcebook where WOTC changed thier skin tones because, and yes I discussed it with Rich, the artists have had/are having a hard time drawing them because they are black/ebony. Even the 3e and 3.5e MM's says that they are black/ebony, as does 2e's, and Unearthed Arcana from 1e. So in summary, the only reason Underdark gave them different skin tones is because of the artists. LOL man I just looked it up and Drizzt looks like PoS in ebony :eek: Face of Drizzt (http://www.wizards.com/books/images/TheCrystalShard_1.jpg) 1) with black skin, you can't tell their skin from their outfits 2) black doesn't show detail very well. but black is slimming :D |
| warlockco09-02-05, 10:31 PM | LOL man I just looked it up and Drizzt looks like PoS in ebony :eek: Face of Drizzt (http://www.wizards.com/books/images/TheCrystalShard_1.jpg) How dare you slight the great and mighty Elmore. The wrath of all that paint and draw will fall upon thy head, and bring great doom upon ye. :P |
| Zanan09-03-05, 07:31 AM | As has been said, the skin colour's description varies from book to book, but yet black, ebony or polished obsidian all suit the bill. They were and are called dark elves because of that ... not just their vile hearts and all. In terms of artists, Todd Lockwood has a fair amount of drow pictures on his website's gallery, including new pics of Jarlaxle, Drizzt and Zhai. Ingenious stuff. |
| Snarkbone09-03-05, 08:09 AM | Holy smokes, just found the large pic of the drow from Eberron Explorer's Handbook : Drow Should look like this (http://teamgtcom.temp.powweb.com/gallery/illustration/90627_G) WotC should just enact that retroactive clouse of the licence and say that all drow look like this and always had! |
| Slime Lord09-03-05, 08:29 AM | Holy smokes, just found the large pic of the drow from Eberron Explorer's Handbook : Drow Should look like this (http://teamgtcom.temp.powweb.com/gallery/illustration/90627_G) WotC should just enact that retroactive clouse of the licence and say that all drow look like this and always had! I don't care for their human appeal, or their tatoo's in that drawing, but I could see them looking like that somewhat, but not really. The drow have Lirel's skin tone if you ask me, some darker, some lighter, but not like that. They almost look like another tel'quesir all together in that drawing |
| Alac Luin09-03-05, 04:22 PM | Unfortunatley inconravertible laws of nature contradict you, if anything they were even darker before the discent and then got lighter in the Underdark. Light deprevation bleaches the skin, it doesn't darken it. It is probably only the curse of Corellon that keeps them from turning deatly white. As has been said by others, rules of nature don't apply, this is a fantasy world. I was not trying to explain things in a scientific manner. I was stating the lore that has been established as written. The historical event known as the "Descent" not only covers the act of the Drow descending into the underdark, it also implies the curse placed on the Drow that made them descend. So, was it the Corellon's curse that turned them Ebony? (The extent of Corellon's involvement in this curse is debatable, and has been semi recently on these boards) Yes, it was this curse, but they were still dark skinned to begin with. I have also tried to explain the “gray skin” of some drow as them having “ashy skin”. If some underdark merchant marketed a low cost moisturizing skin lotion, the Drow would once again be ebony. There has also been a suggestion that exposure to the sun turns a Drow's ebony skin grayish. In reality, the gray skin was done for artists, as was stated. Last thing, Eberron Drow are not Realms Drow. :P |
| saethar09-04-05, 02:03 AM | Last thing, Eberron Drow are not Realms Drow. :PYou'd think the not living underground and not being cursed by a god - not to mention worshipping a scorpion god - would have been the first clue. As to the original poster's question... If you are willing to take the Evermeet novel as canon then the casting out of the "dark elf" deities and the decent of the drow after the Crown Wars were two very seperate things. Eilistraee plainly talks about being exiled when she has her conversation with Moonflower and his son (I've been re-reading the book recently). -- Saethar :b: |
| Zanan09-04-05, 03:44 AM | There is no need to refer to Evermeet the novel alone if you have Cormanthyr with a definite timeline. The latter has now been extended in Lost Empires and clearly marks a time around -30,000 D.R. for the War of the Sedarine (Araushnee's banishment). The Descent of the drow was -10,000 D.R.. All three books give nice background info, but my personal choice of relevance would still be Lost Empires, Cormanthyr, Demihuman Deities, and then Evermeet. |
| GothicDan09-04-05, 09:37 AM | Mine goes... Cormanthyr, Demihuman Deities, Evermeet novel, Lost Empires. Because 3E is dumb. ;) |
| warlockco09-04-05, 02:02 PM | Mine goes... Cormanthyr, Demihuman Deities, Evermeet novel, Lost Empires. Because 3E is dumb. ;) I keep the Lore how I want from the various sources, thus if my players decide to get all cheeky and try to meta-game, I can cut them off at the knees. Afterall the Lore published is often not 100% concrete but can often be seen as what the historians think. Look at our own history, how many instances do we often have conflicting accounts of the same event. |
| Alac Luin09-04-05, 05:00 PM | You'd think the not living underground and not being cursed by a god - not to mention worshipping a scorpion god - would have been the first clue. I was only responding to... Drow Should look like this (http://teamgtcom.temp.powweb.com/gallery/illustration/90627_G&origin=) But if elves genetically / magically altered by giants and use ritual scaring to decorate their body sounds so much better..... BTW: Many of the Eberron drow DO live underground. |
| Mikayla09-07-05, 08:48 PM | Elf-Drow segregation was officially outlawed in the landmark 1354 case of Brown (or ashen gray) v. Silverymoon Board of Education in which the high court held that segregation was un-something-or-other and ordered the bussing...err...wagoning? Teleporting! Yes, teleporting of black (well, brown or ashen gray or indigo) students from Underprivileged, well, Underdark, Tier Breche to the Silverymoon University and the teleporting of not-black elves from Silverymoon to Tier Breche. We would love to say de-segregation has been a great success, but so far, mostly what it has achieved is a larger number of black, brown, ashen gray and indigo students streaking naked through the streets in the name of some Eilistraee-Sorority-House hazing ritual. As for the students bussed, err...teleported..to Tier Breche, we have not heard back from them yet (its in a tough neighborhood...) Aluve'. |
| Slime Lord09-07-05, 10:01 PM | Elf-Drow segregation was officially outlawed in the landmark 1354 case of Brown (or ashen gray) v. Silverymoon Board of Education in which the high court held that segregation was un-something-or-other and ordered the bussing...err...wagoning? Teleporting! Yes, teleporting of black (well, brown or ashen gray or indigo) students from Underprivileged, well, Underdark, Tier Breche to the Silverymoon University and the teleporting of not-black elves from Silverymoon to Tier Breche. We would love to say de-segregation has been a great success, but so far, mostly what it has achieved is a larger number of black, brown, ashen gray and indigo students streaking naked through the streets in the name of some Eilistraee-Sorority-House hazing ritual. As for the students bussed, err...teleported..to Tier Breche, we have not heard back from them yet (its in a tough neighborhood...) Aluve'. I could not figure this out for a moment. "Is this true or is this a story...?" Very nice. |
| warlockco09-07-05, 10:39 PM | Elf-Drow segregation was officially outlawed in the landmark 1354 case of Brown (or ashen gray) v. Silverymoon Board of Education in which the high court held that segregation was un-something-or-other and ordered the bussing...err...wagoning? Teleporting! Yes, teleporting of black (well, brown or ashen gray or indigo) students from Underprivileged, well, Underdark, Tier Breche to the Silverymoon University and the teleporting of not-black elves from Silverymoon to Tier Breche. We would love to say de-segregation has been a great success, but so far, mostly what it has achieved is a larger number of black, brown, ashen gray and indigo students streaking naked through the streets in the name of some Eilistraee-Sorority-House hazing ritual. As for the students bussed, err...teleported..to Tier Breche, we have not heard back from them yet (its in a tough neighborhood...) Aluve'. :rofl: Cute |
| Darth_Azalin09-08-05, 08:42 PM | Does anyone even care about Eberron? I for one won't play the new d&d online game because it takes place on that realm. I understand creating a new world to base most of your new material on because then you don't have to keep paying royalities to those creators ie Gygax, Grubb & Greenwood. And if you think about it the dark elves on Kyrnn (Dalamar) are as close to drow without being drow. |
| Terraneaux09-09-05, 12:18 AM | Well, Eberron has a lot of good points. But it is a very different setting from Forgotten Realms, and for a good reason. If you have two settings that are so similar, why not have just one? Eberron Drow are VERY different from FR drow. Hell, Eberron's elves are way different. Incestous undead-worshipping elves? Not really your stereotypical elf. |
| Darth_Azalin09-09-05, 01:50 PM | I for one will not have anything to do with Eberron so it looks like I will be saving my money and won't be playing DDO, I guess I will still be playing SWG till a decent d&d mmo comes out. ddo - no pvp combat, no housing, no crafting, all instance adventuring -- well thats not any fun at all so with it being set in Eberron its a no go for me for sure. |
| GothicDan09-09-05, 08:02 PM | I really don't see the outcast Dark Elves of Krynn to be very much like Drow... Eh. |
| jim931109-10-05, 02:46 PM | Last thing, Eberron Drow are not Realms Drow. :P Eberron anything are not Realms anything. :rolleyes: |
| Alac Luin09-10-05, 07:23 PM | Eberron anything are not Realms anything. :rolleyes: :ahem:Tell that to the guy linking to the pictures of Eberron Drow, not me. :P |