Elven word for shadow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elven word for shadow [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
krocha
05-01-06, 02:45 PM Does anyone know if the elven word for shadow has ever been mentioned?
Another Gnome
05-01-06, 03:59 PM Vaelahr, apparently.

http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-401061.html

N'Vaelahrn - Member of the Shadow Soldiers
Kiira N'Vaelahr - Shadow Lore Gems

The material is scarce, but you can still deduce N' being a possessive prefix, while -n is the plural suffix (the literal translation of the first example would thus be "of Shadows").
BrianCritchley
05-01-06, 06:20 PM According to the drizzt novels Gwyinivar is also an elvish word for shadow IIRC.

perhaps in this case it's actually a distorted word for "my shadow" in a friendly type way and evolved from the term Gwy'Vaelahr
or maybe my memory just sucks and I'm wrong
Lord Karsus
05-02-06, 02:25 AM -The only canon Elven term we have for "Shadows' is Shil. This comes from Shilmista, which is the 'Forest of Shadows', where Mista means 'Forest', and Shil means 'Shadows'.

Vaelahr, apparently.

http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-401061.html

N'Vaelahrn - Member of the Shadow Soldiers
Kiira N'Vaelahr - Shadow Lore Gems

The material is scarce, but you can still deduce N' being a possessive prefix, while -n is the plural suffix (the literal translation of the first example would thus be "of Shadows").

-Very good reasoning, but incorrect.

-Velahrn can be translated as 'Those who Wields Blades’. Or, in other words, a 'Soldiers' or 'Fighters'. The 'N' prefix can be best translated as 'Not', or something similar. 'Hidden' may be a better term, actually. Thus, N'Vaelahrn is 'Hidden Soldiers', or 'Not-Soldiers', which better explains the organization. For anyone who doesn't know, they were a 'secret' group of Elven rogues who aided Myth Drannor against the Army of Darkness. And, of course, Kiira N'Vaelahr are 'Hidden Soldier Stones', or 'Not-Soldier Stones', because of what they were used for.
Another Gnome
05-02-06, 02:34 AM For a language as rich as Elven is supposed to be, there would no doubt be half a dozen words for various aspects of shadow. Dhaerow in that list of words, for example, hints at shadows as well as being the word for traitor.

...

Heh, since I only searched for the word shadow, I didn't realize there was a discussion on grammar later on... or that there actually was more than the first list of words. Oh well, trying to crack a code would require there to be one in the first place, and I doubt even Mr. Greenwood has given the language quite that much thought. :)
Lord Karsus
05-02-06, 02:41 AM For a language as rich as Elven is supposed to be, there would no doubt be half a dozen words for various aspects of shadow. Dhaerow in that list of words, for example, hints at shadows as well as being the word for traitor.

-Don't forget about different Elven dialects as well. ;)

Heh, since I only searched for the word shadow, I didn't realize there was a discussion on grammar later on... or that there actually was more than the first list of words. Oh well, trying to crack a code would require there to be one in the first place, and I doubt even Mr. Greenwood has given the language quite that much thought. :)

-My signature has a link to my Faerûnian Elven Dictionary, which is quite extensive, if I say so myself!
Zanan
05-02-06, 05:14 AM According to the drizzt novels Gwyinivar is also an elvish word for shadow IIRC.

perhaps in this case it's actually a distorted word for "my shadow" in a friendly type way and evolved from the term Gwy'Vaelahr
or maybe my memory just sucks and I'm wrong

According to my belief, the author had his Welsh hours when writing up various parts of this story. The panther's name, Guenhwyvar, is just a variant spelling of Gwenhwyvar / Gwenhwyfar, meaning gwen - "white", "fair" and (g)wyf - "smooth", "yielding", both Welsh. It is the Welsh counterpart and possible antecedent of Guinevere, wife of King Arthur. The etymology links her to Finnabair ("fair eyebrows"), the beautiful daughter of Medb, the mythical Warrior-Queen of Connacht (Ireland).

The part-time spelling of Lolth in these novels, Lloth, may come from this time too, just check a Welsh map for Llanelli, Llanfair et al.
Zevox
05-02-06, 09:41 PM I don't know anything about Faerûnian Elvish, but if you're interested, Quenya (one of Tolkien's Elvish languages) words for shadow include: lëo (shadow cast by an object/shade), laimë (shadow "cast by an object or form"), lómin (shade), lumbulë ([heavy] shadow), fuinë, huinë (deep shadow/gloom, darkness), ungo (dark shadow, cloud), mordo (obscurity, stain, smear, dimness), and lumbë (gloom).

Zevox
Lord Karsus
05-02-06, 11:26 PM I don't know anything about Faerûnian Elvish, but if you're interested, Quenya (one of Tolkien's Elvish languages) words for shadow include: lëo (shadow cast by an object/shade), laimë (shadow "cast by an object or form"), lómin (shade), lumbulë ([heavy] shadow), fuinë, huinë (deep shadow/gloom, darkness), ungo (dark shadow, cloud), mordo (obscurity, stain, smear, dimness), and lumbë (gloom).

Zevox

-Though, Quenya and Sindarin are not naitive to Faerûn. But, with all of the different ways to travel through time, space, crystal spheres and the planes, its definitley possible that Elves of Middle-Earth passed through Faerûn, and left a little bit of themselves (in this case, their language) behind.
NightBreeze
05-03-06, 10:22 AM Anyway, if you don't find a word in the faerun's elves language, feel fre to use the elvish made by tolkien: there are many more words and variants of each word.
Zanan
05-03-06, 10:35 AM -Though, Quenya and Sindarin are not naitive to Faerûn. But, with all of the different ways to travel through time, space, crystal spheres and the planes, its definitley possible that Elves of Middle-Earth passed through Faerûn, and left a little bit of themselves (in this case, their language) behind.

What a shocking suggestion :nonono:
Lord Karsus
05-03-06, 11:29 AM Anyway, if you don't find a word in the faerun's elves language, feel fre to use the elvish made by tolkien: there are many more words and variants of each word.

-No, no, and no. Just like Quenya is not Sindarin, and Sindarin is not Quenya, Quenya and Sindarin are not Faerûnian Elven. You cannot simply 'mix and match', although to enhance a campaign, it doesn't really matter. But, for the record anyway, this isn't what you do.

What a shocking suggestion :nonono:

-....Don't you have to polish your skeletons, or feed your zombies, or something? :P
BrianCritchley
05-03-06, 09:36 PM indeed if there's no offical FR word feel free to use the tolken elvish word, it'll sound right and it's YOUR game
Lord Karsus
05-04-06, 07:24 AM -I was reading Realms of Magic over the course of the night, and Guenhyvar is indeed an Elven term for 'Shadow'.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
krocha 05-01-06, 02:45 PM	Does anyone know if the elven word for shadow has ever been mentioned?
Another Gnome 05-01-06, 03:59 PM	Vaelahr, apparently. http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-401061.html N'Vaelahrn - Member of the Shadow Soldiers Kiira N'Vaelahr - Shadow Lore Gems The material is scarce, but you can still deduce N' being a possessive prefix, while -n is the plural suffix (the literal translation of the first example would thus be "of Shadows").
BrianCritchley 05-01-06, 06:20 PM	According to the drizzt novels Gwyinivar is also an elvish word for shadow IIRC. perhaps in this case it's actually a distorted word for "my shadow" in a friendly type way and evolved from the term Gwy'Vaelahr or maybe my memory just sucks and I'm wrong
Lord Karsus 05-02-06, 02:25 AM	-The only canon Elven term we have for "Shadows' is Shil. This comes from Shilmista, which is the 'Forest of Shadows', where Mista means 'Forest', and Shil means 'Shadows'. Vaelahr, apparently. http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-401061.html N'Vaelahrn - Member of the Shadow Soldiers Kiira N'Vaelahr - Shadow Lore Gems The material is scarce, but you can still deduce N' being a possessive prefix, while -n is the plural suffix (the literal translation of the first example would thus be "of Shadows"). -Very good reasoning, but incorrect. -Velahrn can be translated as 'Those who Wields Blades’. Or, in other words, a 'Soldiers' or 'Fighters'. The 'N' prefix can be best translated as 'Not', or something similar. 'Hidden' may be a better term, actually. Thus, N'Vaelahrn is 'Hidden Soldiers', or 'Not-Soldiers', which better explains the organization. For anyone who doesn't know, they were a 'secret' group of Elven rogues who aided Myth Drannor against the Army of Darkness. And, of course, Kiira N'Vaelahr are 'Hidden Soldier Stones', or 'Not-Soldier Stones', because of what they were used for.
Another Gnome 05-02-06, 02:34 AM	For a language as rich as Elven is supposed to be, there would no doubt be half a dozen words for various aspects of shadow. Dhaerow in that list of words, for example, hints at shadows as well as being the word for traitor. ... Heh, since I only searched for the word shadow, I didn't realize there was a discussion on grammar later on... or that there actually was more than the first list of words. Oh well, trying to crack a code would require there to be one in the first place, and I doubt even Mr. Greenwood has given the language quite that much thought. :)
Lord Karsus 05-02-06, 02:41 AM	For a language as rich as Elven is supposed to be, there would no doubt be half a dozen words for various aspects of shadow. Dhaerow in that list of words, for example, hints at shadows as well as being the word for traitor. -Don't forget about different Elven dialects as well. ;) Heh, since I only searched for the word shadow, I didn't realize there was a discussion on grammar later on... or that there actually was more than the first list of words. Oh well, trying to crack a code would require there to be one in the first place, and I doubt even Mr. Greenwood has given the language quite that much thought. :) -My signature has a link to my Faerûnian Elven Dictionary, which is quite extensive, if I say so myself!
Zanan 05-02-06, 05:14 AM	According to the drizzt novels Gwyinivar is also an elvish word for shadow IIRC. perhaps in this case it's actually a distorted word for "my shadow" in a friendly type way and evolved from the term Gwy'Vaelahr or maybe my memory just sucks and I'm wrong According to my belief, the author had his Welsh hours when writing up various parts of this story. The panther's name, Guenhwyvar, is just a variant spelling of Gwenhwyvar / Gwenhwyfar, meaning gwen - "white", "fair" and (g)wyf - "smooth", "yielding", both Welsh. It is the Welsh counterpart and possible antecedent of Guinevere, wife of King Arthur. The etymology links her to Finnabair ("fair eyebrows"), the beautiful daughter of Medb, the mythical Warrior-Queen of Connacht (Ireland). The part-time spelling of Lolth in these novels, Lloth, may come from this time too, just check a Welsh map for Llanelli, Llanfair et al.
Zevox 05-02-06, 09:41 PM	I don't know anything about Faerûnian Elvish, but if you're interested, Quenya (one of Tolkien's Elvish languages) words for shadow include: lëo (shadow cast by an object/shade), laimë (shadow "cast by an object or form"), lómin (shade), lumbulë ([heavy] shadow), fuinë, huinë (deep shadow/gloom, darkness), ungo (dark shadow, cloud), mordo (obscurity, stain, smear, dimness), and lumbë (gloom). Zevox
Lord Karsus 05-02-06, 11:26 PM	I don't know anything about Faerûnian Elvish, but if you're interested, Quenya (one of Tolkien's Elvish languages) words for shadow include: lëo (shadow cast by an object/shade), laimë (shadow "cast by an object or form"), lómin (shade), lumbulë ([heavy] shadow), fuinë, huinë (deep shadow/gloom, darkness), ungo (dark shadow, cloud), mordo (obscurity, stain, smear, dimness), and lumbë (gloom). Zevox -Though, Quenya and Sindarin are not naitive to Faerûn. But, with all of the different ways to travel through time, space, crystal spheres and the planes, its definitley possible that Elves of Middle-Earth passed through Faerûn, and left a little bit of themselves (in this case, their language) behind.
NightBreeze 05-03-06, 10:22 AM	Anyway, if you don't find a word in the faerun's elves language, feel fre to use the elvish made by tolkien: there are many more words and variants of each word.
Zanan 05-03-06, 10:35 AM	-Though, Quenya and Sindarin are not naitive to Faerûn. But, with all of the different ways to travel through time, space, crystal spheres and the planes, its definitley possible that Elves of Middle-Earth passed through Faerûn, and left a little bit of themselves (in this case, their language) behind. What a shocking suggestion :nonono:
Lord Karsus 05-03-06, 11:29 AM	Anyway, if you don't find a word in the faerun's elves language, feel fre to use the elvish made by tolkien: there are many more words and variants of each word. -No, no, and no. Just like Quenya is not Sindarin, and Sindarin is not Quenya, Quenya and Sindarin are not Faerûnian Elven. You cannot simply 'mix and match', although to enhance a campaign, it doesn't really matter. But, for the record anyway, this isn't what you do. What a shocking suggestion :nonono: -....Don't you have to polish your skeletons, or feed your zombies, or something? :P
BrianCritchley 05-03-06, 09:36 PM	indeed if there's no offical FR word feel free to use the tolken elvish word, it'll sound right and it's YOUR game
Lord Karsus 05-04-06, 07:24 AM	-I was reading Realms of Magic over the course of the night, and Guenhyvar is indeed an Elven term for 'Shadow'.