Post/Author/DateTime	Post
J. Grenemyer 08-04-04, 07:24 PM	Hello, As the thread title, plus also a request for information on how and what you (as a Realms DM) do to show your players that the game world is alive and going about its business around the players, regardless of their actions. Do you add or remove NPCs from whatever church the players regularly go to for magical aid the party cleric can’t provide (such as the assassination of a High Priest of an established faith that previously resurrected one or more party members)? Do you weave side plots that come about whenever the PCs return from adventuring (such as a pesky Whaterdhavian noble that has taken to harassing the PCs every time they emerge alive from Undermountain, hoping to find some trace of his long lost brother who disappeared in its depths some three winters past)? Do you do the same for merchants, etc…? I don’t kill off my NPCs all that often, but I did take out the High Priest of Mystra at Waterdeep and revealed a plot to also kill Mhair Szeltune of the Order of Magists and protectors. This news came as an unwelcome surprise to my players. The upside of this was they were pondering the how and why of it even as they left to return to the main adventure which (owing to saving the world and all that) they couldn’t take a break from. So, what do you do/what have you done (whether unorthodox or common) with your familiar NPCs to breath life into your Realms campaign? And if you’re not a DM, what has your DM done that surprised you and got you thinking about the campaign world? Thanks in advance! :D
thalious 08-04-04, 11:24 PM	my FR game can be very player focused, but due to only having one main player, such is life. What I do to keep the game world seem larger than the PCs, but not focused only them is to maintain many BBEGS and NPCs and do some inter NPC/BBEG RP and keep the PCs aware of any details they would like hear through the gossip tree and bards. Another thing I do is encourage my player(s) to keep and maintain multiple PCs that are not all related or associated and sometimes even opposing if determined through RP. I have fun and with the support of the player, we don't let the past or Chosen strangle the future or game. It's a balancing act, it is still the FR, but not WoTC's version. This thread contains many of my latest example of PCs, BBEGS, and NPCS, that have died IMC. Graveyard (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44927)
gavagai 08-05-04, 05:20 AM	My PCs are part of 40-50 adventurers who exploit a newly discovered valley / elven ruin. I presented them with at least 2 dozens locations in the valley, and leads into the Underdark and other planes and so on. Of course, my PCs get the spotlight, but the other NPCs also go on forrays, and they boast of their exploits when they meet again... so some of the PCs have established likes and dislikes to some of those fellow adventurers, and some of these adventureres have been helpful to them in the past, or needed their aid when they were trapped in yet another ancient tomb. Interestingly enough, its the powerful and the "too good to be true" NPCs that are disliked most by my players (like a certain priestess of Lathander and her lover, who recently converted to be a Paladin of the same religion), while other NPCs really left the PCs in big trouble (like a half elf rogue who could have saved the day but instead fled from the Giants the PCs were battling) but are still very much liked (she aplogized afterwards, and the PCs, barely breathing, were very understanding...)
gavagai 08-05-04, 05:20 AM	double post
Valoren 08-05-04, 11:39 PM	My PCs are of course the central figures in my games, but there's no reason that as DM I can't play as well! So I play every other character in the world... well, the significant ones anyway. What this means is I keep those characters developing. The priest at the church that heals the PCs, isn't devoted to spending his life sitting at the same spot in the church waiting to heal people..he has a life, he has enemies, and friends, and goals... and these result in things happening to him, just like any other NPCs. My NPCs die off, they grow old, they gain in power, they level up if they are the adventuring kind, and they even have good and bad days. The world is *that* much more alive if you breathe life into the NPCs.. So the short answer is, yes... my NPCs get taken out by other NPCs and the result does affect the PCs. It's fun!
Crust 08-07-04, 04:40 PM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Hello, As the thread title, plus also a request for information on how and what you (as a Realms DM) do to show your players that the game world is alive and going about its business around the players, regardless of their actions. Awesome question. My campaign has a number of heavy players. I have a number of high level wizards, clerics, fighters, rogues, etc. Most of them are former PCs played years ago by either myself, my current players, or players who have retired from the gaming table. The NPCs in my games are constant reminders of how far we've come, and who has come and gone. Of course, I also make use of FR NPCs, such as Elminster, Storm, Dove, Sylune, Mourngrym, the Knights, and others. My PCs are currently between levels 16 and 21. They are the special operations squad of the western Dales. As they explore and adventure, the powerful (and in some cases, less powerful) NPCs in the campaign are always at work behind the scenes. Those NPCs cast sendings to keep the PCs updated, thwart assassination attempts on the PCs, and undermine the machinations of rival wizards and clerics working against the PCs (often without the PCs even knowing), most recently a cabal of phaerimm sorcerers. I recently did kill off an NPC, a high level cleric of Mystra once played by one of my current players. He was overcome by a powerful vampire lord, made into a vampire, and incinerated by another NPC (a former PC) with a sunburst spell. Much like Sylune, I use Lincere (the dead cleric) as a ghostly messenger and protector of anyone who wears Lincere's armor, carries one of his weapons, or wears his holy symbol. As for day-day encounters with NPCs, I don't normally do that. The PCs have specific quests that are given to them by their mentors and superiors (though, those quests are not just "jobs," the group understands the need for their work, and would probably step up to the plate without the suggestion of their superiors). I don't have a Baldur's Gateish set of NPCs who harass the PCs. In the Dales area, most individuals wouldn't think to place a personal problem on the shoulders of the Constables of the Dales (or The Company of Grimstead, as they are also known). That would be like asking a Navy Seal to find your stolen car.
J. Grenemyer 08-07-04, 06:36 PM	Hello, First, thanks to everyone who responded! I want you all to know I'll be borrowing more than a few of your excellent ideas and examples. Some other things I've done to make memorable NPC encounters: Play off of the PCs attributes and appearance, by having NPCs overreact to the PCs or make on the spot assumptions about them that aren't always true. Give NPCs (whether powerful in game terms or not) a goal that's related to what the players are doing, but ultimately runs counter to the PC's goals in some way. Make sure that sometimes the NPCs aren't home.* Enforce NPC attitudes, even when doing so might hinder the players during adventures or during downtime. Make "smaller" locations just as active as big locations. (That is, make sure there's as much intrigue and mystery in small locals like Monksblade in Cormyr as there is in any of Waterdeep's wards.) Remember that not every NPC related mystery is caused by devious plots, wicked spells or a dagger in the back. *One might wonder how a memorable NPC encounter can occur if there's no NPC to interact with. Well, NPCs not being "home" all the time shows the players these NPCs have other business they attend to, and don't sit raptly at home, eagerly awaiting another glorious visit from the mighty PCs. ;) Further, unexpected absences can create interesting moments all their own. Suppose a group of PCs goes to visit a wealthy merchant (such as Ildaar “Duke of Darkness” Oorsabbas) they befriended in Waterdeep. After the PCs have knocked at the door and gotten no response, call for Spot Checks to see if the PCs notice the entrance to Ildaar’s abode is slightly ajar and looks like it was damaged by fire of some kind, and then a Wisdom check to note that -unlike previous visits- there's no visible lit candle that can be seen through the shop window, which Ildaar always left in the past to signal to his customer's he was out of the house. This will surely get players thinking about what's going on here and now w.r.t. the absent Ildaar (and thus forgetting for a moment why they came to visit). Enterprising PCs might think conspiracy and dare to enter Ildaar’s house, whereupon the DM can tell them they see burnt curtains on the floor, knocked over furniture, a bit of blood on the inside of the door, shattered glass, and also smell the lingering stench of smoke that now infuses the whole of the lower level of the house .... as well as the sound of frequent, low and pained moaning coming from upstairs. Wands, Blades and Fists at the ready, the PCs could investigate these sounds, only to discover poor Ildaar taking a bath in his upstairs bedroom while he nurses the wounds to his hands and feet caused by his ill-advised attempts at putting out a fire with his favorite curtains, where said fire erupted when he stepped on an unseen glass (itself left forgotten on the floor due to lengthy drinking the night previous), crashed into his favorite chair while hopping madly in pain and sent the lighted candle he had meant to place before his window flying into his door, which immediately started burning. If a DM uses the same tone and wording to describe what the PCs see at Ildaar’s as he would when describing a room in a Dungeon, his players will very likely be surprised when they discover the true cause of all the destruction. Poor Ildaar. ;) :D
KnightCDL 08-10-04, 02:48 AM	I am a winger DM. If its not obvious, that means I wing nearly everything. But in the course of that I have came up with great plot twists, memorable NPCs, and adventures that no one, myself included, expected :-) I have 2 core players so I generally play a single NPC to aide them. That character is always fleshed out completely and is full of personality when they want to talk to him/her. But by nessesity they generally answer only when spoken to and never make execuative descisions. I wont guide my players that way. Then theres the merchants. I likes merchants because one of my players wants to negotiate for everything. My favorite recuring merchant by far is Habib al-Habib, of Calimsham. Imagine the simpsons quickie mart guy cross breed with the merchant from that one non-D&D world... shaped like a disc... on the back of 4 elephants. (Look Mom! No novel mentioning! ;-) ) I have had groups love him, and my current Evil group actually wants to hunt him down and kill him just to silence his annoying-ness. Every bad guy they encounter has a chance of having a personality. Depending on a few minor factors: 1) did I name him? if so, hes got a personality. 2) Pcs talk to it? If so, it will get one real quick. 3) How much time we got, and hows the game pace going? If we've been trudging through the caverns and tunnels for a couple hours, with nothing overly interesting going on for a while then that lone goblin they meet could be the wittiest little critter they ever met. And killing off NPCs? *evil grin* My players are careful, very careful, in the actions and interactions they have with NPCs, and very protective (other than the evil group) over the ones they like because I will play every one to the hilt if they provide an obvious opening. For example, in the dark days of 2nd ed. I had a group led by a Paladin. Now he was not the best role player in the world, but has since gotten alot better. His Paladin had already suffered the loss of some abilities for awhile when he slit the throat of an unarmed and non hostile orc commander. Well, at the tender level of 7ish, the group of 4 of them encounter a full powered Death Knight. Knowing a battle would be unwise (but OOC planning one anyway *sigh* hank-n-slashers) the Paladin begane a recourse to by time. This revealed alot about this Death Knights past, and its character, like how it considered them beneath him and of no consequence and would have left them in contempt if handled correctly. It is also important to note that the party had found a Holy Avenger, one the Death Knights, that if it DID come to combat would have caused the Death Knight to recoil at what it had become, and depart. [the sword was also the key to exiting, I generally dont give 7th level PCs near artifact weapons to keep :-) ) Well, the Paladin had been a tad sarcastic, and not at all polite, and when the Paladin learned of the loss of the Death Knights familiy he made a statement he wont ever forget or fail to regret. "I wish I could understand your pain, but I cant because my love is still with me. *indicates NPC female cleric at his side*" The less than jovial Death Knight took this rathery offensively and decided to help the rude little Paladin understand. 7th level cleics and PW Kill dont mesh well. The irritated and evily sated Death Knight left. The PCs make it to the surface and waste no time reviving their fallen comrade. She did indeed return, her unborn child did not. And the mildly insane (Chaotic Neutral) bards rendition of the event ensured the inter-party and particuarly cleric/paladins moods and relationships were never the same :-D
Ardent 08-11-04, 11:44 AM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Some other things I've done to make memorable NPC encounters: Play off of the PCs attributes and appearance, by having NPCs overreact to the PCs or make on the spot assumptions about them that aren't always true. Give NPCs (whether powerful in game terms or not) a goal that's related to what the players are doing, but ultimately runs counter to the PC's goals in some way. Make sure that sometimes the NPCs aren't home.* Enforce NPC attitudes, even when doing so might hinder the players during adventures or during downtime. Make "smaller" locations just as active as big locations. (That is, make sure there's as much intrigue and mystery in small locals like Monksblade in Cormyr as there is in any of Waterdeep's wards.) Remember that not every NPC related mystery is caused by devious plots, wicked spells or a dagger in the back. We actually had an entire adventure devoted to getting Elminster some pipe weed. I wasn't particularly into that one, but lemme tell you, fighting off demons in order to recover pipe weed does make you appreciate pipe weed in a way you never did before. Our Rogue was seething mad with El for not mentioning that the caravan we were going to meet had been attacked by demons, but everyone else sort of took it in stride. Well, NPCs not being "home" all the time shows the players these NPCs have other business they attend to, and don't sit raptly at home, eagerly awaiting another glorious visit from the mighty PCs. ;) Further, unexpected absences can create interesting moments all their own. Suppose a group of PCs goes to visit a wealthy merchant (such as Ildaar “Duke of Darkness” Oorsabbas) they befriended in Waterdeep. After the PCs have knocked at the door and gotten no response, call for Spot Checks to see if the PCs notice the entrance to Ildaar’s abode is slightly ajar and looks like it was damaged by fire of some kind, and then a Wisdom check to note that -unlike previous visits- there's no visible lit candle that can be seen through the shop window, which Ildaar always left in the past to signal to his customer's he was out of the house. This will surely get players thinking about what's going on here and now w.r.t. the absent Ildaar (and thus forgetting for a moment why they came to visit). This is delicious when it works two ways...when players can't make sessions, instead of simply having their character tag along as a second PC for someone, or even just opt to stay at the citadel, the character disappears and time is spent searching for them. Usually they track down my character (High Priests aren't all that good at hiding, even in their own citadels) and the Runecaster (again, not terribly good at hiding), but we have some real trouble catching up with the Rogue and the Bard when they "pop off" for some personal matter. Fahgeddabout the Wiz. Trying to break through his wards is perilous to life and limb even for epic heroes. Enterprising PCs might think conspiracy and dare to enter Ildaar’s house, whereupon the DM can tell them they see burnt curtains on the floor, knocked over furniture, a bit of blood on the inside of the door, shattered glass, and also smell the lingering stench of smoke that now infuses the whole of the lower level of the house .... as well as the sound of frequent, low and pained moaning coming from upstairs. I usually discourage my players from that sort of thing...home invasion is better left to professionals. I can't recall doing that all that often as a player, either. Again, home invasion is better left to professionals. Anyhow, I've killed off a few iconic NPCs in my time. The campaign I DM lacks a Laeral and possesses an extremely vengeful Khelben who is constantly in the hair of the Zhentarim. Manshoon was killed by the PCs twice (in the same day, at that), and Fzoul is desperately hoping he's staying dead this time. Orcus was banished (and presumably destroyed) by the demonslayer...his moment of glory. Defeating a demon of demigod status has brought him unbelievable respect and admiration in his homeland of Damara. Four zulkirs of Thay have died/disappeared/otherwise been replaced (no, Szass Tam is not among them). The Simbul was dimensionally anchored to her palace. The intervention of an extraplanar archmage in a spell battle between the Simbul and Szass Tam in the palace (that the party witnessed) caused Szass Tam's physical form to be destroyed and the Simbul to be anchored to the palace indefinitely. The archmage looked a little perturbed to have popped in in the middle of the spell battle and left before anyone could do anything (this is an open plot hook for the players to go Plane-hopping with). Finally, they've killed a few of the Dragons of the North. Not a whole lot I could do about that...they're strong enough to give even ancient wyrms a run for their hide.
FriendOfReligion 08-21-04, 10:08 PM	I give my players a LOT of leeway in choosing their day-to-day activities, and freely let them chase wild geese and mcguffins. The NPSs, however, aren't slacking off, and many a beloved NPC friend or employee of player characters has been whacked either beccause the PCs failed to provide him or her with sufficient security, or they ("jk!") sent him out first to check to see if an are was safe, and more often than not, when clues about something were accumulating and the PCs did nothing or did the wrong thing, the baddies didn't hesitate to take out an NPC. In the highly lawful and orderly communities in which my gamers are based, they often forget that simmering unseen beneath tranquil personae are often the most ruthless, hard-hearted schemers around. Nothing says, "Pay attention!" quite like having the innkeep turn up dead behind the bar after you've openly left a message for a third person with him. ...
JJeff 08-22-04, 12:42 PM	My DM definately makes sure the world revolves whether the PCs are around or not. We had to recover a series of stuff as a major quest from the Chosen, when we recovered one, we realised that we had a rival team gathering the items too and that they had split up and had gotten 3 of the remaining 7 by the time we had finished. So much for taking our time... We came back from a "save the earth" jaunt and find that the major town are rioting from major famine and many town are being burnt down because we were around to help out. If we try to save say Waterdeep, Cormyr will fall etc..... The world spins no matter what the PC are doing. And I'm not trying to say too much lest my DM comes by and kills me for talking too much....
Fourthmensch 08-31-04, 07:43 AM	I'm a big fan of dynamic NPCs, although I admit that I'm not the best at showing it. I do my best though :) A rather memorable adventure, in fact, all spun out from an old enemy that followed the party all the way from Chult to Deepingdale, swearing revenge against them. She prompty set up a thieves' guild in Highmoon, which the PCs heard about and became increasingly concerned over. When the wizard actually went through the trouble to find the guildmaster, she effectively held his two favorite NPCs (Mother Teesha, an old hippie alchemist, and Elminster the scribe). Made for a rather interesting balancing act for them--for once, they couldn't just move in guns blazing, thinking that they had a good chance of surviving--this time there were innocents that probably would die if they did so. Some other things I've done to make NPCs dynamic: 1. The jeweler in a small town significantly expanded his business, thanks to the huge influx of income coming from the PCs. 2. Like others have done, I occasionally make NPCs not at home--especially active ones such as Harpers. 3. I always try to give them something to do during the encounter: clean the house, scribe some scrolls, take a bath, train wild lions--anything to avoid the impression that they are sitting around waiting for the PCs to show up. 4. Bounty hunters showed up looking for a friendly spellcaster. And every so often, whole groups of NPCs have to react to new situations. Since my campaign world is very dynamic, this could mean dealing with occupying military forces, recovering in the aftermath of a dragon flight, coming to terms with new political leaders, etc.--situations that may have totally changed their personalities, if the new situation involves a tragedy like the death of a loved one.
Autosponge 08-31-04, 10:38 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2569699#post2569699 That's a thread I started with several NPCs from my campaign. I generally structure the plots seperately, then check for intertwining with other areas before making it permanent. The connection points when plots overlap are usually a place, a person (NPC), or a thing (rarely). When these things are encountered the spark what I call triggers. Triggers lead to hooks, hooks lead to adventures or encounters. Most DMs start with the hooks but so often the hooks appear manufactured. To avoid that, I suggest using triggers to ensure that the hooks make sense for your campaign and don't seem like you (the DM) are forcing the "action" in the campaign with pre-fab "<insert hook here>" type adventure starters. Once you develop a system of hooks and triggers in your campaign, you'll be amazed at how many places the PCs want to go at the same time and how easily your campaign runs itself--almost like it's alive.
Aegeri 09-11-04, 08:01 PM	In some cases my players have directly been responsible and occasionally indirectly responsible, for the deaths or crippling of several major FR NPC's. I've essentially wiped out most of the superhero characters that just bother me no end, and managed to make the Realms more to my liking: IE more player centric. It also means that I just end up with fewer verisimilitude issues I find.
Fourthmensch 09-11-04, 09:47 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2569699#post2569699 That sounds like an interesting thread, Auto. It doesn't seem to work, however--I just got a "no thread specified" message.