Evil campaign in the Realms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evil campaign in the Realms? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zardnaar
08-22-04, 11:11 AM We're looking at kicking off a new game in the realms. My PCs want to be evil (except for one of the players- she may not play if they want to play evil). Assuming I agree to it and my other player is willing any ideas? I've got Lords of Darkness and the Book of Vile Darkness and Exalted Deeds. I may agree if they are willing to play anti heroes/vigilante type characters and have a similar alignment or motivation to work togather.

I have heard stories of PC groupd that disintegrate with evil players. However in every RPG we lay the group is usually 100% loyal to each other- no stealing off each other, no fighting, killing each other etc. Also I have no hesitation in having the Harpers/Seven Sisters/Eliminster etc blast them to bits if they're stupid about it (random murders etc).
AvengedMutablegenus
08-22-04, 11:44 AM Wait, hold on, What are you asking?
Evil campaigns fit into FR just like they do anything else. You could easily make them associate with one of the numerous evil organizations in Faerun. I'd start them off in Skullport, but thats just because i love love love waterdeep.

~Mutable
Faraer
08-22-04, 12:01 PM Evil campaigns fit into FR just like they do anything else.Which is to say, not at all. It's against the mode and themes of the Realms and of swords and sorcery, it's syntactically meaningless in the language of storytelling, it either trivializes evil or gets into it dangerously. Ask the players who want to play villains why they do, and think very hard if they're the sort of people you want to roleplay with.
Cunning Linguist
08-22-04, 12:28 PM The first thing you do when playing evil, as a DM, is to have a good reason for the players not wanting to kill each other.

This reason needs to be far better then your normal good groupe "stay togheter" reason. It has to be vital for the players.

The thing I did, was get them involved with the Red Wizards, doing jobs for them. The Red Wizards wanted them to stay togheter and not kill each other, this way it's far more likely that they will return after there mission was over.
So what did the Red Wizards do? They gave them a set of rings, each linked to the other. The rings gave a boost to each of the players primary ability.. they where also cursed, so you could not take them off. Thirdly, if one player died, the rings gave a -4 to the primary ability. (effectivly -6, since the ring bonus also went away) So, if one player died, there was a sudden rush to bring him back, futhermore, if there ever was a chance that a player was going to die, other people would try to save him, since they all knew that they where going to have a really hard time if he was dead.

These rings of partybinding held the party togheter from level 2 to level 14, when they got them off. But by that time, they had all become such good friends, and each member was a vital part of the group, that there was no rush to kill of each other.. now at level 20, they are still going strong, setting up drug trade, doing henchmen work for mind flayers, buing up elf slaves for magical testing and trying to set up a Faerun wide assassin network.

So, my advice is to get them involved with a evil network, FAR more powerful them themselves. Then set them out to work from there. Always have the network keep a close eye on them, and what they do. If there is internal bickering, there is going to be punishment for both parts, since bickering and internal backstabbing is bad for the network. (tell them, this is the *somethingsomething* not the Church of Cyric, and here we don't backstabb someone we need)
Ishinad
08-23-04, 03:41 AM I have been a DM in a evil campaign. It was actually somewhat fun. ;)

I suggest, that if the group is big, you need a very unified goal for the group. I started by making soloadventures and making something own for every character. After that it was easier for me to group them into one adventuring party.

The trick is that you need to let every character be, who they are, but at the same time make a perfect reason for them to find the profit of working together.

It´s somewhat harder, or it was for me, to make a evil campaign. Not just because the players are evil aligned, but because, when you do enough good campaigns, you start to think on a certain way as a DM.

When you begin to make a evil campaign you start to notice, that you have to think the hole thing from a different angle, just to make it work and be realistic.

So, before you start to make a evil campaign, make sure you have switched on the darker side of you´re mind..
But, whatever you decide, good luck for your games..
warlockco
08-23-04, 04:44 AM Running an Evil Campaign for the most part is very similiar to running a normal one, except that the list of bad guys is "bigger" since now all those "good" monsters that a normal party usually would never consider fighting are now available. :smirk:

As to if the PCs start to fight and kill each other, that generally only happens if the group is stupid. Punish them for having fight, as soon as they finish their fight, or during their fight, have some random encounters show up and attack the group. :angel:

I have a Drow game, with the exception of 2 PCs, they are all female and CE, one is LE and CN. They are all bound to each other in a "loyal" way since they are all from the same House. And it has been hinted at, that weakening of the House without reason is unacceptable. (ie no killing each other without good grounds)
The only PC that really tries to cheat the group is the Rogue (LE), which for some strange reason is also the person keeping track of the loot. The Rogue has a dream of setting up a Guild in Menzoberranzan. :rofl: I could see Jarlaxle taking exception to that ideal.
The Ranger (CN), Fighter (CE), or the Cleric (CE) didn't want the responsibility.
jake_lex
08-23-04, 03:14 PM I like evil campaigns as a sort of counterpoint to the larger, good-themed campaign. It's sort of like the scenes of the movie that focus on the villians. The evil characters might eventually meet up with the good characters, or maybe not. They might not be directly in conflict with each other, but they do end up on opposite sides of the same battle.

I don't think I'd want to play evil characters all the time, but there can be a place for them.
Jarlaxle_The_Rogue
08-23-04, 09:52 PM Hmm, personally I think evil campaigns can be good for a change of pace. I'd think it would be a lot of fun to Roleplay someone who is a fallen hero or something of that sort.

Also, I think a campaign in a Drow or Duerger city would be a lot of fun.
Zardnaar
08-23-04, 11:41 PM I've thought up 2 options. A party of XYZ evil god sent up near the Silver marches to keep an eye on things or an underdark campaign with Drow, Duergar etc. One of my players has the underdark book.
jake_lex
08-23-04, 11:48 PM I also don't think that an evil-aligned campaign is going to end up being something like "You have to go slaughter everyone in the Elven village." The plotline of the War of the Spider Queen novels gives a good example of what an evil campaign could be like: a group of evil people is forced together to try to solve a greater problem that threatens them all.

It strikes me that, most of the time, an Evil campaign will work much like a Good one does. Perhaps these characters will stab each other in the back eventually, but if they're under attack, they're probably going to work together to repel that attack. The difference is they're not helping out the others because it's the right thing to do; they're doing it because those other members of their party are of use now, and might be needed later.

I would only do an evil campaign with people who really got the concept of playing an evil character. I mean, LE characters are going to take orders and carry them out to the letter. And a CE character isn't a crazed serial killer who just wants to butcher anyone in his or her path; they might be persuaded to follow you a while, just don't be surprised when that knife that's been used to fight alongside you is suddenly buried between your shoulder blades. :smirk:
jake_lex
08-23-04, 11:48 PM Double post! Evil! Evil!

:behold:
Erianys Coldrage
08-30-04, 10:32 PM im DMing an evil campaign and im makin myself soo much fun. For the ''Evil PC will murder each other'' , find some reason for the pc not to kill each other. In my campaign, One of the PC freed my npc, a powerful servant of the dead deity Bhaal, and before they could come to hit, ive put a bigger threat in their face, blue dragon uh oh. After defeating the blue dragon, they stayed together. The servant of bhaal soon introduced another pc, a former cleric of bhaal, to Klive, the first pc. and on and on they've meet each others.

They work now pretty well together and are not thinkin about betrayal, maybe in future but not for now (evil can be quite instable sometimes) :schemes:
Mordmorgan the Mad
08-31-04, 03:06 AM I really like Cunning Linguist's idea about the rings! If you are working the "lackies of an evil organization" angle, I think the Zhentarim would be great. They're lawful, for one, and have a military organization, so they tend to be harsh on people who kill members of their unit (at least, those who get CAUGHT killing members of their unit).
ArnimThayer
09-01-04, 01:02 AM I, in general, hate running a campaign based with evil PCs. It breeds a certain level of distrust within the party dynamics that prevents them from accomplishing anything as a group.
That said,I am in the process of finishing a campaign where the PCs serve the Zhentarim (their idea). Their mentor is a mage of some standing within the organization and they happen to be his personal flunkies sent on missions to not only counter the actions of those damn Harpers and other power groups (Cult of the Dragon, Iron Throne, etc.), but the plots of others within their own organization. They are kept on a leash by blackmail and various geas. I am running in the time period before Cyric destroys Zhentil Keep, but one of my principal PCs is a priest of Bane, stubbornly clinging to his faith. And why shouldn't he? He still receives spells (albiet granted by Cyric, and eventually by Xvim). One is a Rogue caught stealing by the mentor, forced into servitude by spells, but now apprenticed to the mage. Another is a halfling Ranger/Rogue/Master Thrower who joined because he hates Hillsfar and the Red Plumes. And the last is a Sembian Duelist with a secret past, hired as a mercenary. It has lead to some fun moments, but for the most part, not a lot gets accomplished. Only the threat of retribution from the mentor mage keeps them working together.
On the plus side, I can always use the fact that they are evil serving evil to my advantage and squash any problem character without compunction. One player was becoming a threat to group "harmony" and the mage just killed him. No preamble, no warnings, just "you have failed me" and the PC was dead (Phantasmal Killer + failed Save).
Oh, did I mention that one of the PCs is a Harper Infiltrator (used the Herald from Dragon Annual #5). :)
Zaxon D'Mir
09-01-04, 08:29 PM The most fulfilling and satisfying campaign I've ever been apart of was a watered down evil one. We had to have party unity and no one wanted to kill each other like rabid dogs. Of course there was some clandestine activity behind the scenes as the DM (me mostly) had the party pursuing other altenative goals seperate from the core campaign but it opened up a lot of role playing opportunities.

Everyone in the party was portrayed with a varying degree of evil. I like to call it the Darth Vader Effect, which is no one is completely and totally evil without remorse or care. There is a sliver of good that does exist and will show. And this my friends creates great role playing. As example my evil character (yes, it was Zaxon D'Mir and he was a drow F/M/T in 2e) had a daughter, unknown to him. This tested my character's capacity for evil and depravity as his child was covertly used to twist and turn him as he found this alien feeling called love, the love of one's child pushing him to free her from her captors, a drow noble house looking to destroy Zaxon's nefarious criminal organization in the Underdark.

This was really a great campaign. It was twelve years ago and we still talk about it to this day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zardnaar 08-22-04, 11:11 AM	We're looking at kicking off a new game in the realms. My PCs want to be evil (except for one of the players- she may not play if they want to play evil). Assuming I agree to it and my other player is willing any ideas? I've got Lords of Darkness and the Book of Vile Darkness and Exalted Deeds. I may agree if they are willing to play anti heroes/vigilante type characters and have a similar alignment or motivation to work togather. I have heard stories of PC groupd that disintegrate with evil players. However in every RPG we lay the group is usually 100% loyal to each other- no stealing off each other, no fighting, killing each other etc. Also I have no hesitation in having the Harpers/Seven Sisters/Eliminster etc blast them to bits if they're stupid about it (random murders etc).
AvengedMutablegenus 08-22-04, 11:44 AM	Wait, hold on, What are you asking? Evil campaigns fit into FR just like they do anything else. You could easily make them associate with one of the numerous evil organizations in Faerun. I'd start them off in Skullport, but thats just because i love love love waterdeep. ~Mutable
Faraer 08-22-04, 12:01 PM	Evil campaigns fit into FR just like they do anything else.Which is to say, not at all. It's against the mode and themes of the Realms and of swords and sorcery, it's syntactically meaningless in the language of storytelling, it either trivializes evil or gets into it dangerously. Ask the players who want to play villains why they do, and think very hard if they're the sort of people you want to roleplay with.
Cunning Linguist 08-22-04, 12:28 PM	The first thing you do when playing evil, as a DM, is to have a good reason for the players not wanting to kill each other. This reason needs to be far better then your normal good groupe "stay togheter" reason. It has to be vital for the players. The thing I did, was get them involved with the Red Wizards, doing jobs for them. The Red Wizards wanted them to stay togheter and not kill each other, this way it's far more likely that they will return after there mission was over. So what did the Red Wizards do? They gave them a set of rings, each linked to the other. The rings gave a boost to each of the players primary ability.. they where also cursed, so you could not take them off. Thirdly, if one player died, the rings gave a -4 to the primary ability. (effectivly -6, since the ring bonus also went away) So, if one player died, there was a sudden rush to bring him back, futhermore, if there ever was a chance that a player was going to die, other people would try to save him, since they all knew that they where going to have a really hard time if he was dead. These rings of partybinding held the party togheter from level 2 to level 14, when they got them off. But by that time, they had all become such good friends, and each member was a vital part of the group, that there was no rush to kill of each other.. now at level 20, they are still going strong, setting up drug trade, doing henchmen work for mind flayers, buing up elf slaves for magical testing and trying to set up a Faerun wide assassin network. So, my advice is to get them involved with a evil network, FAR more powerful them themselves. Then set them out to work from there. Always have the network keep a close eye on them, and what they do. If there is internal bickering, there is going to be punishment for both parts, since bickering and internal backstabbing is bad for the network. (tell them, this is the somethingsomething not the Church of Cyric, and here we don't backstabb someone we need)
Ishinad 08-23-04, 03:41 AM	I have been a DM in a evil campaign. It was actually somewhat fun. ;) I suggest, that if the group is big, you need a very unified goal for the group. I started by making soloadventures and making something own for every character. After that it was easier for me to group them into one adventuring party. The trick is that you need to let every character be, who they are, but at the same time make a perfect reason for them to find the profit of working together. It´s somewhat harder, or it was for me, to make a evil campaign. Not just because the players are evil aligned, but because, when you do enough good campaigns, you start to think on a certain way as a DM. When you begin to make a evil campaign you start to notice, that you have to think the hole thing from a different angle, just to make it work and be realistic. So, before you start to make a evil campaign, make sure you have switched on the darker side of you´re mind.. But, whatever you decide, good luck for your games..
warlockco 08-23-04, 04:44 AM	Running an Evil Campaign for the most part is very similiar to running a normal one, except that the list of bad guys is "bigger" since now all those "good" monsters that a normal party usually would never consider fighting are now available. :smirk: As to if the PCs start to fight and kill each other, that generally only happens if the group is stupid. Punish them for having fight, as soon as they finish their fight, or during their fight, have some random encounters show up and attack the group. :angel: I have a Drow game, with the exception of 2 PCs, they are all female and CE, one is LE and CN. They are all bound to each other in a "loyal" way since they are all from the same House. And it has been hinted at, that weakening of the House without reason is unacceptable. (ie no killing each other without good grounds) The only PC that really tries to cheat the group is the Rogue (LE), which for some strange reason is also the person keeping track of the loot. The Rogue has a dream of setting up a Guild in Menzoberranzan. :rofl: I could see Jarlaxle taking exception to that ideal. The Ranger (CN), Fighter (CE), or the Cleric (CE) didn't want the responsibility.
jake_lex 08-23-04, 03:14 PM	I like evil campaigns as a sort of counterpoint to the larger, good-themed campaign. It's sort of like the scenes of the movie that focus on the villians. The evil characters might eventually meet up with the good characters, or maybe not. They might not be directly in conflict with each other, but they do end up on opposite sides of the same battle. I don't think I'd want to play evil characters all the time, but there can be a place for them.
Jarlaxle_The_Rogue 08-23-04, 09:52 PM	Hmm, personally I think evil campaigns can be good for a change of pace. I'd think it would be a lot of fun to Roleplay someone who is a fallen hero or something of that sort. Also, I think a campaign in a Drow or Duerger city would be a lot of fun.
Zardnaar 08-23-04, 11:41 PM	I've thought up 2 options. A party of XYZ evil god sent up near the Silver marches to keep an eye on things or an underdark campaign with Drow, Duergar etc. One of my players has the underdark book.
jake_lex 08-23-04, 11:48 PM	I also don't think that an evil-aligned campaign is going to end up being something like "You have to go slaughter everyone in the Elven village." The plotline of the War of the Spider Queen novels gives a good example of what an evil campaign could be like: a group of evil people is forced together to try to solve a greater problem that threatens them all. It strikes me that, most of the time, an Evil campaign will work much like a Good one does. Perhaps these characters will stab each other in the back eventually, but if they're under attack, they're probably going to work together to repel that attack. The difference is they're not helping out the others because it's the right thing to do; they're doing it because those other members of their party are of use now, and might be needed later. I would only do an evil campaign with people who really got the concept of playing an evil character. I mean, LE characters are going to take orders and carry them out to the letter. And a CE character isn't a crazed serial killer who just wants to butcher anyone in his or her path; they might be persuaded to follow you a while, just don't be surprised when that knife that's been used to fight alongside you is suddenly buried between your shoulder blades. :smirk:
jake_lex 08-23-04, 11:48 PM	Double post! Evil! Evil! :behold:
Erianys Coldrage 08-30-04, 10:32 PM	im DMing an evil campaign and im makin myself soo much fun. For the ''Evil PC will murder each other'' , find some reason for the pc not to kill each other. In my campaign, One of the PC freed my npc, a powerful servant of the dead deity Bhaal, and before they could come to hit, ive put a bigger threat in their face, blue dragon uh oh. After defeating the blue dragon, they stayed together. The servant of bhaal soon introduced another pc, a former cleric of bhaal, to Klive, the first pc. and on and on they've meet each others. They work now pretty well together and are not thinkin about betrayal, maybe in future but not for now (evil can be quite instable sometimes) :schemes:
Mordmorgan the Mad 08-31-04, 03:06 AM	I really like Cunning Linguist's idea about the rings! If you are working the "lackies of an evil organization" angle, I think the Zhentarim would be great. They're lawful, for one, and have a military organization, so they tend to be harsh on people who kill members of their unit (at least, those who get CAUGHT killing members of their unit).
ArnimThayer 09-01-04, 01:02 AM	I, in general, hate running a campaign based with evil PCs. It breeds a certain level of distrust within the party dynamics that prevents them from accomplishing anything as a group. That said,I am in the process of finishing a campaign where the PCs serve the Zhentarim (their idea). Their mentor is a mage of some standing within the organization and they happen to be his personal flunkies sent on missions to not only counter the actions of those damn Harpers and other power groups (Cult of the Dragon, Iron Throne, etc.), but the plots of others within their own organization. They are kept on a leash by blackmail and various geas. I am running in the time period before Cyric destroys Zhentil Keep, but one of my principal PCs is a priest of Bane, stubbornly clinging to his faith. And why shouldn't he? He still receives spells (albiet granted by Cyric, and eventually by Xvim). One is a Rogue caught stealing by the mentor, forced into servitude by spells, but now apprenticed to the mage. Another is a halfling Ranger/Rogue/Master Thrower who joined because he hates Hillsfar and the Red Plumes. And the last is a Sembian Duelist with a secret past, hired as a mercenary. It has lead to some fun moments, but for the most part, not a lot gets accomplished. Only the threat of retribution from the mentor mage keeps them working together. On the plus side, I can always use the fact that they are evil serving evil to my advantage and squash any problem character without compunction. One player was becoming a threat to group "harmony" and the mage just killed him. No preamble, no warnings, just "you have failed me" and the PC was dead (Phantasmal Killer + failed Save). Oh, did I mention that one of the PCs is a Harper Infiltrator (used the Herald from Dragon Annual #5). :)
Zaxon D'Mir 09-01-04, 08:29 PM	The most fulfilling and satisfying campaign I've ever been apart of was a watered down evil one. We had to have party unity and no one wanted to kill each other like rabid dogs. Of course there was some clandestine activity behind the scenes as the DM (me mostly) had the party pursuing other altenative goals seperate from the core campaign but it opened up a lot of role playing opportunities. Everyone in the party was portrayed with a varying degree of evil. I like to call it the Darth Vader Effect, which is no one is completely and totally evil without remorse or care. There is a sliver of good that does exist and will show. And this my friends creates great role playing. As example my evil character (yes, it was Zaxon D'Mir and he was a drow F/M/T in 2e) had a daughter, unknown to him. This tested my character's capacity for evil and depravity as his child was covertly used to twist and turn him as he found this alien feeling called love, the love of one's child pushing him to free her from her captors, a drow noble house looking to destroy Zaxon's nefarious criminal organization in the Underdark. This was really a great campaign. It was twelve years ago and we still talk about it to this day.