Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Karsus 11-28-03, 10:19 AM	Are there any plans to expand on Toril? Most of the planet unexplored. Will we ever see novels or sourcebooks or adventures or anything dealing with these unexplored lands? Will they ever even be dealt with?
thalious 11-28-03, 12:08 PM	I think yes. In the meantime, the DM and players have that job.
Cernunnos 12-01-03, 01:42 AM	I hate to say it, but probably not. Most of it is intentional: on one hand, it iss to allow the DM to expand the Realms on his own, and not have to have players scream about "canon." On the other hand, WotC has pretty much abandoned the outer Realms (Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica), though I imagine Al-Qadim/Zakhara could make it back some day. Being that they don't have anything planned probably for the next few years detailing pre-existing areas, I doubt that we'll see anything on brand spankin' new ones. And before anybody says anything, yes, the next issue of Dragon is going to have some tidbits on Zakhara and Kara-Tur...
Weaver95 12-01-03, 08:12 PM	I know i'm going to shatter a few illusions over this, but here goes anyway: I don't think Al Quadim or Kara-Tur are going to be huge sellers. Based on the game suppliments I've seen that used 'far east' or 'middle east' setting, I don't think the market is out there for them. White wolf did a kindred of the east game and it tanked. They did a huge series of things on the middle east and africa and it tanked. WoTC did the same with a Kara-Tur/Unapproachable East suppliment and it tanked. That being said, I think it's understandable why nobody wants to write games in those settings. Now, you can argue the merits of those settings until you're blue in the face - and you'd probably come up with alot of reasons why campaigns based around 'em would be fun to play. But it's a simple fact of market economics that a majority of the player base just isn't interested in buying products based in the 'outer realms'. And so it goes....
Kuje31 12-01-03, 08:38 PM	Originally posted by Weaver95 WoTC did the same with a Kara-Tur/Unapproachable East suppliment and it tanked. Do you have proof that Unapproachable East tanked? Besides that part of Toril has mostly nothing to do with Kara-Tur. I know I'd more then welcome any new material on Zakhara and Maztica. I never really could get into Kara-Tur though even though I have a lot of the old sourcebooks.
Weaver95 12-01-03, 09:38 PM	[Do you have proof that Unapproachable East tanked?] WoTC/TSR mentioned in a few press releases that thier reason for discontinuing most source books was due to the poor showing of Unapproachable East and the Drow sourcebook/mega-adventure. Personallly tho, I kinda think Corporate was going to discontinue sourcebooks no matter how well Unapproachable East went over - call it a gut feeling combined with an intimate understanding of stupid corporate management decisions. At any rate, every major product line that's put out an 'eastern' suppliment has seen said product line tank. Mind you, they do pick up a rabid fan base who really seem to enjoy thier game - but it's not enough to build a market base around. [I know I'd more then welcome any new material on Zakhara and Maztica.] I'd actually like to see more on the Shadovar and Mulhorand/Unther but that's just me.
Kuje31 12-01-03, 09:51 PM	Originally posted by Weaver95 [Do you have proof that Unapproachable East tanked?] WoTC/TSR mentioned in a few press releases that thier reason for discontinuing most source books was due to the poor showing of Unapproachable East and the Drow sourcebook/mega-adventure. Personallly tho, I kinda think Corporate was going to discontinue sourcebooks no matter how well Unapproachable East went over - call it a gut feeling combined with an intimate understanding of stupid corporate management decisions. I could have sworn this was the Spider Queen Adventure and Silver Marches, not Unapproachable East..... Since Silver Marches sold well there are still regional sourcebooks being printed. Unapproachable East was one of them and so is the up coming Serpent Kingdoms. And according to SKR in his donut cores and forgotten rums article, on his site, it is The Silver Munchies not Unapproachable East. :) Sure they are not as "fluffy" as they used to be, since "crunch" sells better and allows more non FR people to use them. Which bites because that was why many of us liked FR, but as Rich just said, us old fans have to deal with it since WOTC really only writes sourcebooks for new fans.
Weaver95 12-01-03, 10:39 PM	[Which bites because that was why many of us liked FR, but as Rich just said, us old fans have to deal with it since WOTC really only writes sourcebooks for new fans.] And now they're not going to write them at all - the NOVELS are supposed to stand in for the sourcebooks from here on out. At the very least, the release schedule on the web site is very lite for 2004 and comprised of mostly novels. Great if you've the time/money/inclination to read them all and covert them into coherant player format, sucks if you've got a live, job or significant other! What kills me most about all this tho is that there's such amazingly strong player support for modules/sourcebooks. People keep cranking out the NeverWinter nights computer game modules (alot of which are Forgotten Realms based), there's alot of conventions that feature FR events, sales of FR books always seem to be going fast in our local gamer store, the living greyhawk people have a vast (if scary!) fan base all thier own....evidence is piled high that there IS a market for gamer sourcebooks - yet WoTC seems to have stopped development for some bizarre reason I cannot seem to fathom. meh. Must be an accountant behind it all. A Neutral EVIL accountant. With vorpal ledgers! Yeah! And...and....POST IT NOTES! Yeah! That's gotta be it! Oooo! I just got my next Big Villian for my campaign....!
Cernunnos 12-02-03, 01:43 AM	Actually, what WotC said was that they would not release any more ADVENTURES. Not to mention I don't think Unapproachable East exactly tanked... though I was kind of scratching my head on why they'd release a book on a part of the Realms that I've hardly ever heard of a group playing in. Sourcebooks are all the rage, but WotC is determined not to repeat TSR's (and now White Wolf's) mistake: releasing 5 must-have sourcebooks a month every month, until your average player either gets bored with the setting or decides its not worth his money. Not to mention that, pretty soon, you WILL run out of things to write about. Look at the 2E material: VERY few areas that didn't get some kind of writeup. As for the frequency with which the sourcebooks come out: think of it this way. In the late 80's/early 90's, we'd get a 64 page Realms sourcebook about once a month. The art was usually all black and white, they were softback, and cost about $10-15 a piece. Now we get a sourcebook about every 3-4 months, its about 160 pages, hardbound, glossy paper and full color. And only about twice as much ($20 is you know where to shop, $30-$35 new). There is alot more effort to expand the rules with each one (more crunch, love it or hate it), and alot more effort towards balance. I'd say we're getting ALOT more bang for the buck. And we're not bankrupting ourselves every month. If you want adventures, check out Dungeon magazine. If the adventure isn't Realms specific (there is usually one every second or third issue), then with some minimal tinkering you can put it in the Realms. Plus, Organized Play is allegedly releasing 4 hardbound epic FR adventures set in Raven's Bluff (this was officially announced a few months back... i've since seen nothing on it). I still think alot of the problem with Kara-Tur and Maztica was how they were written... IMHO the Kara-Tur box set was rather bland, and all over the place (I really hated the layout, and it had virtually no flavor, and pretty much ignored the rest of the Realms). Maztica could be fairly boring (the new classes/magic radically underpowered, the story too close to history, the setting not static enough). At least some of the Maztica adventures were alright (a few of the OA ones, esp. Ronin Challenge, were GREAT, and IMHO some of the most underappreciated ever).
Jack in the Green 12-02-03, 07:14 AM	Not to mention I don't think Unapproachable East exactly tanked... though I was kind of scratching my head on why they'd release a book on a part of the Realms that I've hardly ever heard of a group playing in. Well you can add me to the list of groups that are playing there. :) Thats at least one! In case your wondering where, Narfell and the Rawlinswood. There's just something about a fallen empire of demon worshipers that intrigues me. I could milk the whole Narfell/Raumathari conflict for months. If your wanting to try the east and are stuck for ideas there's always the Bloodstone modules. I think they're set in Damara, which is only lightly covered in the UE book. In addition to the Serpent Kinddoms is there not a rumored Waterdeep source book on the way? I believe it will contain Skullport and surrounding areas too?
Kuje31 12-02-03, 01:10 PM	Originally posted by Jack in the Green In addition to the Serpent Kinddoms is there not a rumored Waterdeep source book on the way? I believe it will contain Skullport and surrounding areas too? That's right, I believe it's also supposed to tie in with Ed's and Elaine's Waterdeep novel they are co writting together.
Lord Karsus 12-02-03, 10:04 PM	Sourcebooks are all the rage, but WotC is determined not to repeat TSR's (and now White Wolf's) mistake: releasing 5 must-have sourcebooks a month every month, Sadly, I would buy all five books...Do I have nothing better to buy with my money?
Weaver95 12-02-03, 10:22 PM	White Wolf really scraped the bottom of the barrel for it's source book ideas too. Ebony Kingdom for example - sheer horribleness condensed into material form masquerading as a game suppliment. Excrement recycled into gamer fodder. A sanity blasting horror representing the nadir of the white wolf experience. Ok, I didn't like it much. I also didn't buy the thing either. I fled screaming from the local gamer store shrieking in terror and didn't look at the white wolf shelf for months.