Expedition to Undermountain and Halaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Expedition to Undermountain and Halaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Splarg
08-11-07, 01:22 AM Hey, i was flicking through the latest book about undermountain and was wondering if anyone has any idea what happened to Halaster, all i could find while in the store was something about the call he made to wizards. Any ideas on who or what managed to take out one of the coolest characters of the realms?
Splarg
08-12-07, 11:56 PM ahh nuts, i take it everyone is as clueless as i am about this. i guess it will all be sorted out eventually.

Also i'm kinda curious why they put a realms book with a non-realms standard dnd cover.
MarkusTay63
08-13-07, 12:23 AM ahh nuts, i take it everyone is as clueless as i am about this. i guess it will all be sorted out eventually.No, its just that this subject has been beaten to death already, and no-one really likes that he died (his soul was shattered).

Also i'm kinda curious why they put a realms book with a non-realms standard dnd cover.To sell it to people who don't game in the Realms - they made it a core product (like the Eberron 'races' book).

It was a marketing ploy.
Splarg
08-13-07, 03:54 AM he died? but he's Halaster

of course since they're selling it as a core product i can now conveniently shelve in the "did not happen" category :)
msatran
08-13-07, 03:59 AM He's Halaster. His death is overdue.

I personally like the idea of a totally out of control dungeon to slaying monsters for the amusement of an insane archmage.
Splarg
08-13-07, 04:02 AM If anyones death is overdue I think it would be the Simbuls, I really, really dislike her and the sooner she karks it the better.

This is kinda why I wish Halaster was still alive, he was one of my favourite realms characters and I was hoping that he would get up to some major tricks after Elminster in Hell (he may have, i haven't read many forgetten realms books other than the ones about Lolth and the others about Drizzt)
Red_Wizard
08-13-07, 08:51 AM If anyones death is overdue I think it would be the Simbuls, I really, really dislike her and the sooner she karks it the better.

:cheer:
dragonheart
08-13-07, 12:08 PM Actually given the story line as writen and the levels of the PCs when done it allows for his never really having been killed at all and the whole thing being one of his insanely convoluted ploys. he could be trying to use this to repopulate the dungeon with adventurers or as a test for the PCs to start a new group of aprentices, as a ploy to drow out the Twisted Rune's plans etc. given that we are unlikely to see a high level follow up to the adventure (levels 10-epic) as a DM you can do pretty much anything you want with the storyline.Personally I suspect we will see a product around next year that has something like this with his return as a side note.
Lord Karsus
08-13-07, 02:50 PM Personally I suspect we will see a product around next year that has something like this with his return as a side note.

-A "follow-up" adventure/sourcebook is already in the early stages of production, is it not?
Splarg
08-13-07, 04:31 PM Actually given the story line as writen and the levels of the PCs when done it allows for his never really having been killed at all and the whole thing being one of his insanely convoluted ploys. he could be trying to use this to repopulate the dungeon with adventurers or as a test for the PCs to start a new group of aprentices, as a ploy to drow out the Twisted Rune's plans etc. given that we are unlikely to see a high level follow up to the adventure (levels 10-epic) as a DM you can do pretty much anything you want with the storyline.Personally I suspect we will see a product around next year that has something like this with his return as a side note.

Sweet, I await Halaster's triumphant return (or will just do it myself :))
msatran
08-13-07, 05:27 PM Oh, for god's sake. The Simbul is a gorgeous piece of Realms Cheesecake. You'd throw that away for HALASTER?

I'm cynical, but I'm not THAT Cynical.
rikkiwalker
08-13-07, 06:30 PM If anyones death is overdue I think it would be the Simbuls, I really, really dislike her and the sooner she karks it the better.

This is kinda why I wish Halaster was still alive, he was one of my favourite realms characters and I was hoping that he would get up to some major tricks after Elminster in Hell (he may have, i haven't read many forgetten realms books other than the ones about Lolth and the others about Drizzt)

I like the Simbul; her baffling attraction to Elminster not withstanding she is much more interesting character then any of the other 7 idiot sisters.
Red_Wizard
08-14-07, 08:57 AM Oh, for god's sake. The Simbul is a gorgeous piece of Realms Cheesecake. You'd throw that away for HALASTER?

I'm cynical, but I'm not THAT Cynical.

I like the Simbul, I hate the gross over-exaggeration that permeates her within a 40 mile radius.

Maybe if she was treated as being fallible more than once, or perhaps being demoted from the status as chosen for bold faced murder of Thayan she would become more interesting. But as it is, when she shows up, I know more Red Wizards are going to die painfully, and foolishly under her barrage of spells.
Triton
08-14-07, 10:42 AM I like to think they will have Halaster manipulate a group of adventurers to orchestrate his ressurection. This will involve the group pitting the Twisted Rune, Shoon VII (Cowled Wizards), and the blue dragon Iryklathagra. The group will spend part of it's time weakening each group, aquiring components to return Halaster, and pinning it all on the others. Halaster could help by communicating to them through an increasing powerful artifact, and through thousands of carefully laid information and agents. The end result will be the near destruction of the Cowled Wizards, the restoration of the mage Zallanora Argentresses, the fragmentation of some of Iryklathagra's hoard to others, and the destruciton of much of the Twisted Rune.
dragonheart
08-14-07, 01:19 PM now that would be a really good sert of adventures - so you can be sure it won't happen (sadly). It would also have to leave the PCs involved as epic level characters - potentially with their own areas of control in undermountain (can we get rid of some of his present "apprentices" in the process?). Hey - no getting rid of the Symbul I like! flashy redheads :love: :pint: :drool: :inlove: :rolleye2:
Red_Wizard
08-14-07, 02:35 PM But she has silver hair. :P :thinks:
dragonheart
08-14-07, 02:44 PM but she acts like a red hair - and with all that Thayan blood flying around her most times who can tell its silver? :P :D
Voric
08-14-07, 04:45 PM I like the Simbul, I hate the gross over-exaggeration that permeates her within a 40 mile radius.

Maybe if she was treated as being fallible more than once, or perhaps being demoted from the status as chosen for bold faced murder of Thayan she would become more interesting. But as it is, when she shows up, I know more Red Wizards are going to die painfully, and foolishly under her barrage of spells.

But they were Red Wizards, and thus they deserved to die. Why would she be demoted for that?
Red_Wizard
08-14-07, 04:51 PM Why do Red Wizards deserve to die? Because they have differing ideals than her?

She deserves to be demoted for using her chosen abilities to gain the upper hand in situations that do not pertain to the defense of the weave.

Were it not for being a chosen, she would have died long ago at the hands of the Thayans. She nearly died once as it is whilst attacking them, and it was for the same reason she hates them. Arrogance.

She is as much a power hungry dictator as they. She rules by might, and yet condemns them for using their magical abilities to take the same power.
Voric
08-14-07, 05:28 PM I see the tongue-in-cheek tone did not come across as intended...
MarkusTay63
08-14-07, 06:37 PM Actually, I would like to see her 'screw-up' - in other words, go temporarily 'nuts' and dis-regard Mystra's leash on her, and have her attack and kill a bunch of Red Wizards (maybe they killed one of her 'pets'). Then Mystra would have to strip her of her Chosen status, thus making her more 'mortal'. As is, the Simbul is a trifle too powerful to be interesting, but toned down a bit she would have to actually think about her actions. It might be a very good 'learning experience' for her, the first time she gets spanked by Szass Tam.

I would also like to see Szass perform the coup de'grace on some of the other Zulkirs, and take control of Thay finally. Strangely, I wouldn't mind seeing a REAL love affair bloom between Dmitra Flass (the Tharchiones) and Selfaril Uoumdolphin (First Blade of Mulmaster). Two wicked, ambitious people, now suddenly finding themselves worrying about another person more then themselves. A great opportunity for some 'deepness' to otherwise cookie-cutter villains. Of course, it might be veiwed as a copy of what is going on with Semmemon and Ashemi, but hey, love has a strange way of changing people, so why not use it more often. ;)

Which leads me full-circle back to the topic - :D

Now that Halaster is 'gone', what happened to the phylactery of Frostrune? :eek:
Triton
08-14-07, 07:00 PM All back to my thinking, that this is a clever plan by Halaster to get rid of three very troublesome pests.:D
Lord Karsus
08-14-07, 07:02 PM Actually, I would like to see her 'screw-up' - in other words, go temporarily 'nuts' and dis-regard Mystra's leash on her, and have her attack and kill a bunch of Red Wizards (maybe they killed one of her 'pets'). Then Mystra would have to strip her of her Chosen status, thus making her more 'mortal'. As is, the Simbul is a trifle too powerful to be interesting, but toned down a bit she would have to actually think about her actions. It might be a very good 'learning experience' for her, the first time she gets spanked by Szass Tam.

-That would be an interesting novel. I'd read it.

I would also like to see Szass perform the coup de'grace on some of the other Zulkirs, and take control of Thay finally.

-I believe he is already in the process of doing that, in that new "Undead" Trilogy. Haven't read Unclean , so I'm just going by what I've heard on the grapevine.

Now that Halaster is 'gone', what happened to the phylactery of Frostrune? :eek:

-It, like many other things, has entered that gray area, where that pesky, missing sock winds up.
MarkusTay63
08-14-07, 07:15 PM -That would be an interesting novel. I'd read it.Thank you - I'd write it, but WotC doesn't except 'unsolicited submissions'. Also, I think that Ed, or perhaps Elaine, should do it, or maybe even Schend. It would be more about emotional issues, then fight-scenes, so it would require someone who is better at 'subtler' issues.

-I believe he is already in the process of doing that, in that new "Undead" Trilogy. Haven't read Unclean , so I'm just going by what I've heard on the grapevine.I've assumed as much myself, but I won't read a series until the last book is published. No more WoT's for me... :nonono:

-It, like many other things, has entered that gray area, where that pesky, missing sock winds up.The dimension of Lost Stuff! I've heard of it, but the only way to end up there is to become 'lost' yourself.
Lord Karsus
08-14-07, 07:23 PM Thank you - I'd write it, but WotC doesn't except 'unsolicited submissions'. Also, I think that Ed, or perhaps Elaine, should do it, or maybe even Schend. It would be more about emotional issues, then fight-scenes, so it would require someone who is better at 'subtler' issues.

-Well, it is Ed's character, so I guess that he'd do the writing. But, I think I'd prefer Steve, myself.

The dimension of Lost Stuff! I've heard of it, but the only way to end up there is to become 'lost' yourself.

-I don't think that people who become lost can wind up there. They usually wind up on the cast of The Surreal Life, in Christian Churches, or...'on a long vacation'...:incog:
Red_Wizard
08-15-07, 08:57 AM I see the tongue-in-cheek tone did not come across as intended...

Sorry about that then. I am just seeing a pattern in new arrivals on various forums jumping in and making wild allegations on varied matters. Consider the tongue and cheek noted. :D
daimyotx
08-15-07, 09:57 AM I don't think Mystra would strip her of her Chosen status if she went nuts.

Sammaster wasn't stripped of his Chosen status right away when he went bonkers and founded the Cult of the Dragon.
Voric
08-15-07, 11:57 AM Sorry about that then. I am just seeing a pattern in new arrivals on various forums jumping in and making wild allegations on varied matters. Consider the tongue and cheek noted. :D

New to the forums, but hardly new to the Realms. I meant it more as a stab at the assumption that all Red Wizards (or Zhents, or any other "Evil" organization) are typecast as nameless, forgettable, two-dimensional "bad guys."
daimyotx
08-15-07, 12:03 PM Red Wizard.... Red Shirt... It's all the same.. :D

just poking at ya, RW
Triton
08-15-07, 06:30 PM The problem is who would push her so? She is now the lover of Elminster and the Thayans are preoccupied with civil war. What calamity will push the limits of such a powerful caster?
Stigger
08-15-07, 07:23 PM Doubtful she'd go and blow a fuse, nuking Thay in the process unless they launched a horrific attack on Aglarond first... She's not nearly as insane as most people seem to think she is I don't think, though I'd think she's play that side up to keep others guessing and afraid of what she might do to them.
Red_Wizard
08-16-07, 09:12 AM You know what would be deliciously sweet? If when Tam was done with his coup, the country was so weakened, ALL the chosen were charged to protect it from outside interference.

The Simbul defending Thay, what a story ending twist. :P
dragonheart
08-16-07, 09:28 AM OK Lets bring this thread back on target guys and gals.
Has anyone noticed taht the maps and descriptions in the manual/adventure book are somewhat lacking? While I can match up the adventure detail maps for the dungeon level to the large scale map of the level in the book I can't match the Storeroom level local and large scale maps and there is little or no key for the 3rd level. WHile I was able to locate Skullport and using some notes from here I think I located the Promenade there is just enough to maybe place the lair of the Eye, but Belkin's Fall and Underhaven/Spiderhaven are not present on the large scale map - being a day's coasting down the river. Somehow for a path for the drow to use to invade and a center of the dwarven colony this strikes me as really way off. In addition while they provide a portal to Belkram's fall for the adventure path they provide no other clear link to the Sargauth Level - nothing to Skullport, SPiderhaven, etc.
Is all of this just me missing stuff or is this bad organization/planning/adventure scripting from WotC.
(And of course with the main pages down for their countdown to 4.0 I can't even access the older adventures and maps to download them and use them to fill in while planning - more bad planning by WotC I guess.)
PharaunMizzrym
08-19-07, 12:28 AM The problem is who would push her so? She is now the lover of Elminster and the Thayans are preoccupied with civil war. What calamity will push the limits of such a powerful caster?

The fourth edition death and rebirth of Mystra. There have been as many Mystras as there have been editions. It will be interesting to see if they keep up this trend.
Lord Karsus
08-20-07, 09:06 AM The fourth edition death and rebirth of Mystra. There have been as many Mystras as there have been editions. It will be interesting to see if they keep up this trend.

-That would be...just...so...:rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Splarg 08-11-07, 01:22 AM	Hey, i was flicking through the latest book about undermountain and was wondering if anyone has any idea what happened to Halaster, all i could find while in the store was something about the call he made to wizards. Any ideas on who or what managed to take out one of the coolest characters of the realms?
Splarg 08-12-07, 11:56 PM	ahh nuts, i take it everyone is as clueless as i am about this. i guess it will all be sorted out eventually. Also i'm kinda curious why they put a realms book with a non-realms standard dnd cover.
MarkusTay63 08-13-07, 12:23 AM	ahh nuts, i take it everyone is as clueless as i am about this. i guess it will all be sorted out eventually.No, its just that this subject has been beaten to death already, and no-one really likes that he died (his soul was shattered). Also i'm kinda curious why they put a realms book with a non-realms standard dnd cover.To sell it to people who don't game in the Realms - they made it a core product (like the Eberron 'races' book). It was a marketing ploy.
Splarg 08-13-07, 03:54 AM	he died? but he's Halaster of course since they're selling it as a core product i can now conveniently shelve in the "did not happen" category :)
msatran 08-13-07, 03:59 AM	He's Halaster. His death is overdue. I personally like the idea of a totally out of control dungeon to slaying monsters for the amusement of an insane archmage.
Splarg 08-13-07, 04:02 AM	If anyones death is overdue I think it would be the Simbuls, I really, really dislike her and the sooner she karks it the better. This is kinda why I wish Halaster was still alive, he was one of my favourite realms characters and I was hoping that he would get up to some major tricks after Elminster in Hell (he may have, i haven't read many forgetten realms books other than the ones about Lolth and the others about Drizzt)
Red_Wizard 08-13-07, 08:51 AM	If anyones death is overdue I think it would be the Simbuls, I really, really dislike her and the sooner she karks it the better. :cheer:
dragonheart 08-13-07, 12:08 PM	Actually given the story line as writen and the levels of the PCs when done it allows for his never really having been killed at all and the whole thing being one of his insanely convoluted ploys. he could be trying to use this to repopulate the dungeon with adventurers or as a test for the PCs to start a new group of aprentices, as a ploy to drow out the Twisted Rune's plans etc. given that we are unlikely to see a high level follow up to the adventure (levels 10-epic) as a DM you can do pretty much anything you want with the storyline.Personally I suspect we will see a product around next year that has something like this with his return as a side note.
Lord Karsus 08-13-07, 02:50 PM	Personally I suspect we will see a product around next year that has something like this with his return as a side note. -A "follow-up" adventure/sourcebook is already in the early stages of production, is it not?
Splarg 08-13-07, 04:31 PM	Actually given the story line as writen and the levels of the PCs when done it allows for his never really having been killed at all and the whole thing being one of his insanely convoluted ploys. he could be trying to use this to repopulate the dungeon with adventurers or as a test for the PCs to start a new group of aprentices, as a ploy to drow out the Twisted Rune's plans etc. given that we are unlikely to see a high level follow up to the adventure (levels 10-epic) as a DM you can do pretty much anything you want with the storyline.Personally I suspect we will see a product around next year that has something like this with his return as a side note. Sweet, I await Halaster's triumphant return (or will just do it myself :))
msatran 08-13-07, 05:27 PM	Oh, for god's sake. The Simbul is a gorgeous piece of Realms Cheesecake. You'd throw that away for HALASTER? I'm cynical, but I'm not THAT Cynical.
rikkiwalker 08-13-07, 06:30 PM	If anyones death is overdue I think it would be the Simbuls, I really, really dislike her and the sooner she karks it the better. This is kinda why I wish Halaster was still alive, he was one of my favourite realms characters and I was hoping that he would get up to some major tricks after Elminster in Hell (he may have, i haven't read many forgetten realms books other than the ones about Lolth and the others about Drizzt) I like the Simbul; her baffling attraction to Elminster not withstanding she is much more interesting character then any of the other 7 idiot sisters.
Red_Wizard 08-14-07, 08:57 AM	Oh, for god's sake. The Simbul is a gorgeous piece of Realms Cheesecake. You'd throw that away for HALASTER? I'm cynical, but I'm not THAT Cynical. I like the Simbul, I hate the gross over-exaggeration that permeates her within a 40 mile radius. Maybe if she was treated as being fallible more than once, or perhaps being demoted from the status as chosen for bold faced murder of Thayan she would become more interesting. But as it is, when she shows up, I know more Red Wizards are going to die painfully, and foolishly under her barrage of spells.
Triton 08-14-07, 10:42 AM	I like to think they will have Halaster manipulate a group of adventurers to orchestrate his ressurection. This will involve the group pitting the Twisted Rune, Shoon VII (Cowled Wizards), and the blue dragon Iryklathagra. The group will spend part of it's time weakening each group, aquiring components to return Halaster, and pinning it all on the others. Halaster could help by communicating to them through an increasing powerful artifact, and through thousands of carefully laid information and agents. The end result will be the near destruction of the Cowled Wizards, the restoration of the mage Zallanora Argentresses, the fragmentation of some of Iryklathagra's hoard to others, and the destruciton of much of the Twisted Rune.
dragonheart 08-14-07, 01:19 PM	now that would be a really good sert of adventures - so you can be sure it won't happen (sadly). It would also have to leave the PCs involved as epic level characters - potentially with their own areas of control in undermountain (can we get rid of some of his present "apprentices" in the process?). Hey - no getting rid of the Symbul I like! flashy redheads :love: :pint: :drool: :inlove: :rolleye2:
Red_Wizard 08-14-07, 02:35 PM	But she has silver hair. :P :thinks:
dragonheart 08-14-07, 02:44 PM	but she acts like a red hair - and with all that Thayan blood flying around her most times who can tell its silver? :P :D
Voric 08-14-07, 04:45 PM	I like the Simbul, I hate the gross over-exaggeration that permeates her within a 40 mile radius. Maybe if she was treated as being fallible more than once, or perhaps being demoted from the status as chosen for bold faced murder of Thayan she would become more interesting. But as it is, when she shows up, I know more Red Wizards are going to die painfully, and foolishly under her barrage of spells. But they were Red Wizards, and thus they deserved to die. Why would she be demoted for that?
Red_Wizard 08-14-07, 04:51 PM	Why do Red Wizards deserve to die? Because they have differing ideals than her? She deserves to be demoted for using her chosen abilities to gain the upper hand in situations that do not pertain to the defense of the weave. Were it not for being a chosen, she would have died long ago at the hands of the Thayans. She nearly died once as it is whilst attacking them, and it was for the same reason she hates them. Arrogance. She is as much a power hungry dictator as they. She rules by might, and yet condemns them for using their magical abilities to take the same power.
Voric 08-14-07, 05:28 PM	I see the tongue-in-cheek tone did not come across as intended...
MarkusTay63 08-14-07, 06:37 PM	Actually, I would like to see her 'screw-up' - in other words, go temporarily 'nuts' and dis-regard Mystra's leash on her, and have her attack and kill a bunch of Red Wizards (maybe they killed one of her 'pets'). Then Mystra would have to strip her of her Chosen status, thus making her more 'mortal'. As is, the Simbul is a trifle too powerful to be interesting, but toned down a bit she would have to actually think about her actions. It might be a very good 'learning experience' for her, the first time she gets spanked by Szass Tam. I would also like to see Szass perform the coup de'grace on some of the other Zulkirs, and take control of Thay finally. Strangely, I wouldn't mind seeing a REAL love affair bloom between Dmitra Flass (the Tharchiones) and Selfaril Uoumdolphin (First Blade of Mulmaster). Two wicked, ambitious people, now suddenly finding themselves worrying about another person more then themselves. A great opportunity for some 'deepness' to otherwise cookie-cutter villains. Of course, it might be veiwed as a copy of what is going on with Semmemon and Ashemi, but hey, love has a strange way of changing people, so why not use it more often. ;) Which leads me full-circle back to the topic - :D Now that Halaster is 'gone', what happened to the phylactery of Frostrune? :eek:
Triton 08-14-07, 07:00 PM	All back to my thinking, that this is a clever plan by Halaster to get rid of three very troublesome pests.:D
Lord Karsus 08-14-07, 07:02 PM	Actually, I would like to see her 'screw-up' - in other words, go temporarily 'nuts' and dis-regard Mystra's leash on her, and have her attack and kill a bunch of Red Wizards (maybe they killed one of her 'pets'). Then Mystra would have to strip her of her Chosen status, thus making her more 'mortal'. As is, the Simbul is a trifle too powerful to be interesting, but toned down a bit she would have to actually think about her actions. It might be a very good 'learning experience' for her, the first time she gets spanked by Szass Tam. -That would be an interesting novel. I'd read it. I would also like to see Szass perform the coup de'grace on some of the other Zulkirs, and take control of Thay finally. -I believe he is already in the process of doing that, in that new "Undead" Trilogy. Haven't read Unclean , so I'm just going by what I've heard on the grapevine. Now that Halaster is 'gone', what happened to the phylactery of Frostrune? :eek: -It, like many other things, has entered that gray area, where that pesky, missing sock winds up.
MarkusTay63 08-14-07, 07:15 PM	-That would be an interesting novel. I'd read it.Thank you - I'd write it, but WotC doesn't except 'unsolicited submissions'. Also, I think that Ed, or perhaps Elaine, should do it, or maybe even Schend. It would be more about emotional issues, then fight-scenes, so it would require someone who is better at 'subtler' issues. -I believe he is already in the process of doing that, in that new "Undead" Trilogy. Haven't read Unclean , so I'm just going by what I've heard on the grapevine.I've assumed as much myself, but I won't read a series until the last book is published. No more WoT's for me... :nonono: -It, like many other things, has entered that gray area, where that pesky, missing sock winds up.The dimension of Lost Stuff! I've heard of it, but the only way to end up there is to become 'lost' yourself.
Lord Karsus 08-14-07, 07:23 PM	Thank you - I'd write it, but WotC doesn't except 'unsolicited submissions'. Also, I think that Ed, or perhaps Elaine, should do it, or maybe even Schend. It would be more about emotional issues, then fight-scenes, so it would require someone who is better at 'subtler' issues. -Well, it is Ed's character, so I guess that he'd do the writing. But, I think I'd prefer Steve, myself. The dimension of Lost Stuff! I've heard of it, but the only way to end up there is to become 'lost' yourself. -I don't think that people who become lost can wind up there. They usually wind up on the cast of The Surreal Life, in Christian Churches, or...'on a long vacation'...:incog:
Red_Wizard 08-15-07, 08:57 AM	I see the tongue-in-cheek tone did not come across as intended... Sorry about that then. I am just seeing a pattern in new arrivals on various forums jumping in and making wild allegations on varied matters. Consider the tongue and cheek noted. :D
daimyotx 08-15-07, 09:57 AM	I don't think Mystra would strip her of her Chosen status if she went nuts. Sammaster wasn't stripped of his Chosen status right away when he went bonkers and founded the Cult of the Dragon.
Voric 08-15-07, 11:57 AM	Sorry about that then. I am just seeing a pattern in new arrivals on various forums jumping in and making wild allegations on varied matters. Consider the tongue and cheek noted. :D New to the forums, but hardly new to the Realms. I meant it more as a stab at the assumption that all Red Wizards (or Zhents, or any other "Evil" organization) are typecast as nameless, forgettable, two-dimensional "bad guys."
daimyotx 08-15-07, 12:03 PM	Red Wizard.... Red Shirt... It's all the same.. :D just poking at ya, RW
Triton 08-15-07, 06:30 PM	The problem is who would push her so? She is now the lover of Elminster and the Thayans are preoccupied with civil war. What calamity will push the limits of such a powerful caster?
Stigger 08-15-07, 07:23 PM	Doubtful she'd go and blow a fuse, nuking Thay in the process unless they launched a horrific attack on Aglarond first... She's not nearly as insane as most people seem to think she is I don't think, though I'd think she's play that side up to keep others guessing and afraid of what she might do to them.
Red_Wizard 08-16-07, 09:12 AM	You know what would be deliciously sweet? If when Tam was done with his coup, the country was so weakened, ALL the chosen were charged to protect it from outside interference. The Simbul defending Thay, what a story ending twist. :P
dragonheart 08-16-07, 09:28 AM	OK Lets bring this thread back on target guys and gals. Has anyone noticed taht the maps and descriptions in the manual/adventure book are somewhat lacking? While I can match up the adventure detail maps for the dungeon level to the large scale map of the level in the book I can't match the Storeroom level local and large scale maps and there is little or no key for the 3rd level. WHile I was able to locate Skullport and using some notes from here I think I located the Promenade there is just enough to maybe place the lair of the Eye, but Belkin's Fall and Underhaven/Spiderhaven are not present on the large scale map - being a day's coasting down the river. Somehow for a path for the drow to use to invade and a center of the dwarven colony this strikes me as really way off. In addition while they provide a portal to Belkram's fall for the adventure path they provide no other clear link to the Sargauth Level - nothing to Skullport, SPiderhaven, etc. Is all of this just me missing stuff or is this bad organization/planning/adventure scripting from WotC. (And of course with the main pages down for their countdown to 4.0 I can't even access the older adventures and maps to download them and use them to fill in while planning - more bad planning by WotC I guess.)
PharaunMizzrym 08-19-07, 12:28 AM	The problem is who would push her so? She is now the lover of Elminster and the Thayans are preoccupied with civil war. What calamity will push the limits of such a powerful caster? The fourth edition death and rebirth of Mystra. There have been as many Mystras as there have been editions. It will be interesting to see if they keep up this trend.
Lord Karsus 08-20-07, 09:06 AM	The fourth edition death and rebirth of Mystra. There have been as many Mystras as there have been editions. It will be interesting to see if they keep up this trend. -That would be...just...so...:rolleyes: