First appearance of Lolth? [Archive] - Wizards Community

First appearance of Lolth? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LichSathas
07-17-05, 12:23 PM Was wondering if anyone could tell me when the first appearance of Lolth was. Vault of the Drow (unfortunately I don't own this classic)? Or was it later during the time that FR was just beginning? Also Correlon. Was he initially an elven god from back in 1st edition?

I'm trying to seperate some information about elven mythology. Basically when did it become known in DnD that Correlon was the 'overgod' of the elven pantheon, Lolth was actually called Araushnee, and Araushnee was Corellon's wife? Or is this ALL FR based information and not just general knowledge people have known since before FR?

Probably take some REAL dnd history buffs to figure this one out *laughs*. I just don't have access to much of the old first edition stuff besides the original DL modules for the War of the Lance and the original Tomb of Horrors. Thanks to whoever can puzzle this one out because I'm out of info sources.

Lich Sathas
Kuje31
07-17-05, 12:37 PM Corellon has been around since 1e.

Lloth has as well.

It wasn't till FR took them and flushed out thier history that she became one of his consorts.
LichSathas
07-17-05, 01:41 PM Awesome Kuje, thanks. I figured that if anyone could have answered (especially without having to look into it over days) it'd be you.

Lich Sathas
Faraer
07-17-05, 03:21 PM Yes, Lolth first appears in Gary Gygax's D-series modules (1978). Corellon Larethian was Jim Ward's creation in Deities & Demigods (1980). The rest of the elven pantheon was created by Roger Moore in Dragon then published in Unearthed Arcana (1985). Ed incorporated these into the Realms soon after publication. Araushnee is Realmslore that I think first appears in FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark. (Note the distinctive Greenwoodian au.)
Zanan
07-17-05, 04:23 PM Vendui!

It is a bit difficult to judge which Lolth came first and when, or how her history eveloped over the years.

She was defo invented for general DnD (which is Greyhawk) in DnD 1st edition. She got a few remarks in the MMs as well as Monster Mythology, where some notes were made about her within the Realms. Once the Realms were there, so was Lolth - though back then most likely primarily as the patron deity of the "monster" drow. That is what she took over from Greyhawk. Once the FR developed though, the FR Lolth got her own history and background, which mirrored the old Greyhawk background only vaguley (and some may say that the Greyhawk background was actually a reflection of her FR history).

Her FR history was in full swing with Demihuman Deities and Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves (a free download, BTW), somewhat fleshed out in the novel Evermeet. Essentially, Lolth was a lesser deity of the Elven pantheon and went by the name Araushnee. She plotted the downfall of Corellon, and failed. She was cast out of the Seldarine (Elven pantheon), named a tanar'ri, apparently stripped of her divine mantle for some time. She reclaimed the latter soon though, rising from demon princes to intermediate (spoiler->)

.
.
.
. and finally, during the events of the War of the Spider queen to greater

.
.
.
.
.
.
. goddess.
TomCosta
07-18-05, 02:55 PM Unless she appeared in the original 1E Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lore (which I don't think she did), Lolth first appeared in the D and Q series of modules as a demon queen (and fallen god) in 1E and then reprinted in the 1E Fiend Folio, and has been a staple since.

As for Realmslore, nothing beats Cunningham's Evermeet novel for pulling many of the previous threads together and subsequently, Demihuman Deities.

Since then she's gone through many permuations, most notably in the recent War of the Spider Queen series.
Kuje31
07-18-05, 02:58 PM Unless she appeared in the original 1E Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lore (which I don't think she did),

Yup she's in there. :)
Lashan
07-18-05, 03:50 PM Which version of the 1E Deities and Demigods? Was she in the version that had the Chtullu mythos? (I realize that I am now showing my full DnD geekness).

My copy is at home and I can't check.
Kuje31
07-18-05, 04:01 PM Which version of the 1E Deities and Demigods? Was she in the version that had the Chtullu mythos? (I realize that I am now showing my full DnD geekness).

My copy is at home and I can't check.

Not sure if she's in the Cthulu version. I only have the nonCuthulu version but I don't think there is much difference between the two except for the removal of one or two "pantheons." Namely the Cthulu and Gray Mouser ones.
Kid SixXx
07-18-05, 07:54 PM Not sure if she's in the Cthulu version. I only have the nonCuthulu version but I don't think there is much difference between the two except for the removal of one or two "pantheons." Namely the Cthulu and Gray Mouser ones.

The Nehwon mythos (Fafhrd & Grey Mouser) made the cut. The Cthulu section & the Elric of Melebone section were eliminated in the second edition.

Lolth's stats are the same in both editions, IIRC.

If Legends & Lore is the little white book, then Lolth's not in there but the Conan mythos is.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LichSathas 07-17-05, 12:23 PM	Was wondering if anyone could tell me when the first appearance of Lolth was. Vault of the Drow (unfortunately I don't own this classic)? Or was it later during the time that FR was just beginning? Also Correlon. Was he initially an elven god from back in 1st edition? I'm trying to seperate some information about elven mythology. Basically when did it become known in DnD that Correlon was the 'overgod' of the elven pantheon, Lolth was actually called Araushnee, and Araushnee was Corellon's wife? Or is this ALL FR based information and not just general knowledge people have known since before FR? Probably take some REAL dnd history buffs to figure this one out laughs. I just don't have access to much of the old first edition stuff besides the original DL modules for the War of the Lance and the original Tomb of Horrors. Thanks to whoever can puzzle this one out because I'm out of info sources. Lich Sathas
Kuje31 07-17-05, 12:37 PM	Corellon has been around since 1e. Lloth has as well. It wasn't till FR took them and flushed out thier history that she became one of his consorts.
LichSathas 07-17-05, 01:41 PM	Awesome Kuje, thanks. I figured that if anyone could have answered (especially without having to look into it over days) it'd be you. Lich Sathas
Faraer 07-17-05, 03:21 PM	Yes, Lolth first appears in Gary Gygax's D-series modules (1978). Corellon Larethian was Jim Ward's creation in Deities & Demigods (1980). The rest of the elven pantheon was created by Roger Moore in Dragon then published in Unearthed Arcana (1985). Ed incorporated these into the Realms soon after publication. Araushnee is Realmslore that I think first appears in FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark. (Note the distinctive Greenwoodian au.)
Zanan 07-17-05, 04:23 PM	Vendui! It is a bit difficult to judge which Lolth came first and when, or how her history eveloped over the years. She was defo invented for general DnD (which is Greyhawk) in DnD 1st edition. She got a few remarks in the MMs as well as Monster Mythology, where some notes were made about her within the Realms. Once the Realms were there, so was Lolth - though back then most likely primarily as the patron deity of the "monster" drow. That is what she took over from Greyhawk. Once the FR developed though, the FR Lolth got her own history and background, which mirrored the old Greyhawk background only vaguley (and some may say that the Greyhawk background was actually a reflection of her FR history). Her FR history was in full swing with Demihuman Deities and Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves (a free download, BTW), somewhat fleshed out in the novel Evermeet. Essentially, Lolth was a lesser deity of the Elven pantheon and went by the name Araushnee. She plotted the downfall of Corellon, and failed. She was cast out of the Seldarine (Elven pantheon), named a tanar'ri, apparently stripped of her divine mantle for some time. She reclaimed the latter soon though, rising from demon princes to intermediate (spoiler->) . . . . and finally, during the events of the War of the Spider queen to greater . . . . . . . goddess.
TomCosta 07-18-05, 02:55 PM	Unless she appeared in the original 1E Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lore (which I don't think she did), Lolth first appeared in the D and Q series of modules as a demon queen (and fallen god) in 1E and then reprinted in the 1E Fiend Folio, and has been a staple since. As for Realmslore, nothing beats Cunningham's Evermeet novel for pulling many of the previous threads together and subsequently, Demihuman Deities. Since then she's gone through many permuations, most notably in the recent War of the Spider Queen series.
Kuje31 07-18-05, 02:58 PM	Unless she appeared in the original 1E Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lore (which I don't think she did), Yup she's in there. :)
Lashan 07-18-05, 03:50 PM	Which version of the 1E Deities and Demigods? Was she in the version that had the Chtullu mythos? (I realize that I am now showing my full DnD geekness). My copy is at home and I can't check.
Kuje31 07-18-05, 04:01 PM	Which version of the 1E Deities and Demigods? Was she in the version that had the Chtullu mythos? (I realize that I am now showing my full DnD geekness). My copy is at home and I can't check. Not sure if she's in the Cthulu version. I only have the nonCuthulu version but I don't think there is much difference between the two except for the removal of one or two "pantheons." Namely the Cthulu and Gray Mouser ones.
Kid SixXx 07-18-05, 07:54 PM	Not sure if she's in the Cthulu version. I only have the nonCuthulu version but I don't think there is much difference between the two except for the removal of one or two "pantheons." Namely the Cthulu and Gray Mouser ones. The Nehwon mythos (Fafhrd & Grey Mouser) made the cut. The Cthulu section & the Elric of Melebone section were eliminated in the second edition. Lolth's stats are the same in both editions, IIRC. If Legends & Lore is the little white book, then Lolth's not in there but the Conan mythos is.