Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nirvana24 08-01-07, 03:53 PM	You know... I don't play any of those MMO games because I'm rather picky and don't want to invest a lot of time into something second rate. One of my main complaints about each one of them is that I just don't know anything about the lore, geography, and people. When DDO was announced, I was pretty excited. Then when I found out it wouldn't be based in the FR, and instead in Eberron, I've never had any interest since. Now to anyone who know's video games, it is well known that the Forgotten Realms ones have always been big hits. The Baldur's Gate games are classic. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 have done damn well for themselves. The IWD games didn't do too bad either. And those Dark Alliance games made 'greatest hits' on ps2 I do believe. With that said, who would like to see an MMO based in the FR? Based on past FR games' success, I'd have thought it would be done by now. Has anyone heard anything?
Voric 08-01-07, 05:16 PM	I personally haven't heard anything, but this is something I would love to see. There is no more perfect set-up for an MMO as far as I'm concerned. Geography, history, population breakdown, quest-starter adventure hooks, enough room for numerous expansions, NPCs already fleshed out... basically, the creative work is already done, you just need to pick one of the many already excellent engine formats, hire the programmers and artists, and go to town. Given the direction that the table-top gaming industry is headed, an FR MMORPG (or one based of any of the other popular worlds) may be the only savior for the future of games like D&D. Unfortunately, if Turbine gets ahold of the rights to the FR setting, I think we will simply end up with another crapfest along the lines of DDO.
Dimensional_Drifter 08-01-07, 10:21 PM	As great as a good FR MMORPG would be, I don't see one in the near future. Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer is about it as far a FR games in the near future. Perhaps someone will develop a good MMORPG in the realms, I don't know. Why DDO was Eberron? well, there are many reasons for that. Besides, I'm happy they didn't ruin the realms by making that the setting for DDO.
GothicDan 08-01-07, 10:30 PM	An FR MMO would just dilute the already meandering FR sense of theme and story.
Dimensional_Drifter 08-01-07, 11:49 PM	I wasn't saying that a MMO would be good for the realms, but the chances of a MMO that is actually good enough for the realms are slim.
Demangel 08-02-07, 12:25 AM	TBH, I think FR could be done as an OK MMO, but sadly, I'm not a big fan of fantasy based MMO's anymore. I personally think that NWN hit the nail on the head on how a fantasy genre CRPG should be done, Persistent worlds are IMHO far more suited to fantasy based multiplayer than MMO's are. Simply because of the interaction that is possible with smaller populations and more DM's per person. TBH, I think MMO's work better as sandbox oriented games, IE games were the players are given a butt load of tools, resources and things to use in many different ways, and figure out their own ways to use them within the framework of the setting and it's theme. Take a game like EVE online. The PVE content that exists is meant to be nothing more than a fun way to collect the resources you need to do the things that you really want to do. Those players who don't understand this, race there way into a Battleship, and run the same missions over and over again till thier ship is pimp, then wonder where the fun went. Those of us who get the spirit of the game run those missions as a way to make money to do the REAL things that can be done in EVE like conquer solar systems, corner markets, influence politics, and just about lose yourself in an alternate life, complete with it's own goals, politics, and responsibilities. A game that ISN't sandbox oriented is acquisition oriented... The whole point of the game isn't to solve a puzzle or mystery, nor save a world or even a single peasant farmer... Nor even destroy said world or farmer... It's all about making your toon as uber as possible, and when your done... thats it... Story just delays how fast you can get that nifty breastplate, or that magic max level... Games that are sandboxes arn't like that, and no matter how much you play, or how long, it's rare that you ever reach a point where you feel you have done everything, unless your goal is simply to have a powerful toon with the best stats, in which case it's doable way too fast as there is little if any story to get in the way. This is why I don't want to see any more D&D based MMO's... Not even based on FR. And if one MUST be based on FR, I do not want it to be like DDO... DDO is in all honesty a GREAT game... It's the players and the nature of MMO players to play a fantasy game like it's wow that ruined it (IE a race to epic stats). DDO was created in such a way that it would have made a better NWN style game (if a lot more shallow, and simplistic)... IE single and normal multilayer options... But The moment it went MMO is the moment the game unraveled. I remember first playing the game and thinking - Ok this doesn't really feel like Eberron, but damn the quests and things are fun, they feel a lot more like a good PnP session than any other MMO game ever, not as good as NWN can do, but GOOD. Then I joined my first party... They did a quest I hadn't done yet, and just as I expected, everyone in the damn party had already done the quest 20 times, and the entire "first run" was ruined for me as everyone already knew the layout or at least pacing of the quest and what to do/avoid... There was no discovery, and the story was blown through as fast as possible to access the next chamber... Puzzles? Don't make me laugh... Everyone knew the solution... So all that hard work scripting a fun adventure went right down the toilet... Imagine playing a PnP game where the DM is running it from a campaign book (Say Red hand of Doom or something), and everyone including the DM has already played through it several times, and you haven't... Imagine all of them basically knowing exactly where to search the DC they need to succeed, and can pretty much solve the entire quest without any real reasoning... This is basically what DDO is... I know I know... some nub will tell me: Oh just don't party with people who have done the quest already... Riddle me this moron, just how do I actually join groups then? With luck you might find 1-2 people near your level who havn't done the quest already, and those 1-2 people still need not join you... But then what? What about the next quest after that? Do I have to set a date and time every day or week to play DDO with people with the same mindset as me? I might as well play PnP thanks, or NWN for that matter which is much more oriented for this kind of gaming. No reason to spend 14 a month on a game that is LESS advanced mechanically, even if it's graphics are decent and it has something similar to FPS real time swordplay (BWAHAHAHAHAH LAFF! That was a joke...). I wanted DDO to be a hit, because I LOVE Eberron, and that was a let down too... DDO felt decidedly UN Eberron, oh all the elements seemed present, all the background and so on... But with a shoddy game blocking my view I couldn't even see the Eberron influence in there... My chat windows slammed with the typical nonsense spewed in public MMO channels... "Where do I get the phat lewt +3 longsword that procs fireball?" and jazz like that. No... Sorry folks... No more D&D MMORPGS... Not even sandbox as high fantasy settings make for poor sandbox... Now a more medieval and realistic MMORPG sandbox style might intrigue me... one where the goal is to create your own kingdom, town or estate... OR work for people who have already done so... The meat and taters of the game being what these player factions are doing politically and creatively... while the story stuff made by the Devs just serves as a fun way to PVE between PVP and world building... Imagine if you could start out as a serf, and steadily create your own life, eventually owning a castle or keep, hiring NPC soldiers to defend it and patrol your lands... Players to do the same and more... That could be fun, but it wouldn't work in FR, as it's back story is too rich and thick to allow all the players so much freedom to do as they pleased. Lastly any sandbox game would need numbers higher than a typical MMO server supports... EVE online on the other hand solved this with 25-30K concurrent users on the ONE AND ONLY shard (IE no 1.5-3K cap like most MMO's have, when you log on there are 30 thousand players in the same universe at any given time that you can conceivably interact with at any time without switching shards etc). Scale like that allows for rich player interaction and depth... Dozens if not hundreds of player factions that make headline news every day... Each with their own agenda, an agenda that may rival, match, or overtake your own... To me THIS is a game worth asking for. Sadly, none that I have tried or heard about that are like this seemed like they were worth the time. I feel your all entitled to your opinions though, if you find slapping around bunnies for 10 levels to be fun, followed by running through instances filled with mobs who's only purpose is to drop phat lewt or quest items so you can buff your toon another 1% in some area is fun and immersive to you, more power too you. But me? When it comes to an MMO - Give me an alternate reality in which to play, give me a world that is about player empowerment. Give me a virtual reality designed as such... No more theme parks, but more sandbox. LEt me carve out my own story, my own destiny, and my own purpose withint the framework of the game mechanics. Don't just have some NPC in some town tell me to go slay a dragon to get XYZ reward... Thats theme park. Instead have the dragon just appear one day in the nearby mountains and attack my villagers, my castle and the players under my banner, or my lords village, and his castle, and I'm the errant Knight who will go out with his buddies and bring it down... Maybe even more interesting would be if while we're facing the dragon, another players faction has set it's sights on taking our fertile farmlands and our serfs to use as fodder for their expansionistic aims... If we choose to combat the dragon it will mean that many fewer resources defending the border... If we choose to ignore the dragon, the enemy players might find a blazing field of ash where a once fertile valley lay ripe for the plundering. While this might not have the same charm in some cases as stuff you find in PNP, it's a LOT more engrossing when you know everything is happening for real in this little world, and that it all has meaning and repercussions... I know there are games with some of these elements, but AFAIK, no fantasy based MMO is truly sandbox the way EVE is, or the way I envision it... Devs should spend less time on scripted quests, and more on empowering players to make their own worlds, and any scripted events should be stuff like that dragon attacking... or some other influence on your own little piece of the world... And it need not all be bad... maybe instead of a dragon attacking, it's a gold mine discovered in the woods ready for my lord to send serfs into to collect the gold, of course, I have to clear it of it's monster infestation fist... but you get the idea. Not just a BBEG with phat lewt to kill 20 times to reach level X. Thats my rant, and I'm sorry if it was opinionated :)
Voric 08-02-07, 08:13 AM	Oh, I agree with many of your points, Demangel, as far as current MMOs are concerned, the Forgotten Realms could hardly be done well enough to keep the spirit of the world intact. The wonderful thing about the world of digital gaming though, is the constant evolution going on within the industry. All it will take is for someone to come along with the necessary resources, abundant imagination, and the guts to rethink and redesign the MMO paradigm. It's those types of companies and programmers that always end up with the "next big thing."
Tobus Neth 08-02-07, 09:22 PM	It would be cool to run along the Unicorn run or stroll the streets of Watedeep and have a few rounds at the Yawning Portal. Nothing is Impossible.
Alurvelve 08-02-07, 09:49 PM	I would love to have a FR realms MMO game. Use the DDO as a stepping stool. You now know some things to do and not to do when trying to make the game. Also juse a side note on MMO's in general. No matter which game you have its not the game that makes you keep playing it for years, but the people you meet and befriend. I've played SWG for 2 years and done everything there is to do numerous times, and hlepd countless people level and do quests. The only thing that keeps me there are the friends I have made there. Until I get word of a FR MMO I'll be playing SWG until Marvel online comes out :)
Psydrith 08-03-07, 02:23 AM	If someone gave the reigns of a capable programming team to ALFA I support this. http://www.alandfaraway.org <---If you don't know who ALFA is.
Zandilar 08-03-07, 03:51 AM	Heya, I have this to say... LF1M Larloch! Need Cleric and Druid, PST. Nuff said. (Please, gods above, DON'T EVER LET THEM MAKE AN FR MMO!) Edit: Before anyone says I'm a n00b, I have been playing MMOs since the late 90s - from UO to EQ to EVE to WoW, and yes, even a stint in DDO. I know MMOs, and my heart would break if the Realms ever got the MMO treatment.
Francius 08-03-07, 05:16 PM	For an MMO set in the FR, it would take a sheer amount of endless programming job to be realized... Unless they decide to set it in some specific part of Faerun (or Toril).
Alurvelve 08-03-07, 06:37 PM	If they make a FR MMO they need to have the first staring package be in one area, and use exspansions to cover other areas, so you do not have to dal with the entire region at once. FR MMO (main game starts in Waterdeep) Expansion 1 goes to the North (sliver marches and etc) Expansion 2 goes to the Dalelands Expansion 3 goes to Cor Myr Expansion 4 goes to Thay etc etc The main thing I didnt like about the DDO was the level cap. Then they raised the level later, and thinking of adding prc(not sure if they have yet or not). Have it set up where you have the core starting classes and races to level 20, and the core prc from the dmg. With each expansion add a new class, race, and prc, but make them unlockable once you max a toon to 20 you get to pick from a selection of unlockables, makeing you want to grind all you toons to 20 so you get all the cool stuff. I wouldnt even think about adding epic level to the game unless it can stay alive for the 3-5 year mark.
Zandilar 08-04-07, 08:51 AM	Heya, The main thing I didnt like about the DDO was the level cap. Then they raised the level later, and thinking of adding prc(not sure if they have yet or not). DDO didn't even start out with all the basic Eberron Races. I was most disappointed that there were no Changelings (my favorite Eberron race) and no Shifters... And when they did introduce a new race, they introduced the Drow. They bungled it badly - they forced you to have gain a certain amount of favour with another character first (one that you may not have wanted to play as your main character). Not to mention that certain classes (Druid and Monk) weren't in from the start (and as far as I know, they're still not in - but it has been a while since I've looked at anything DDO). They've done a pretty bad job of it, all up. They had some nice ideas but failed to deliver on them. If this is what we got with Eberron, what do any of you honestly think will happen with FR? Bioware didn't even get lore right in their single player FR based RPGs, how can any of us expect that a company like Turbine would do better? (I won't blast Turbine here, but I will never trust another Turbine product again after my experience with them. Bioware, on the other hand, have me as a loyal customer - I loved the BG series, and most of NWN as well, despite the incongruities and plot holes in both sets of games. As for NWN2, I hope that Atari gives the DnD license back to Bioware. Obsidian dropped the ball as well.)
LeslieWest_GuitarGod 08-04-07, 11:27 AM	You guys all give DDO a bad name but NOONE HAS PLAYED THE GAME. I have played pen and paper for 25 years, and find DDO the best MMO on the market, and by a large margin. World of Warcraft and NWN dont come anywhere close to DDO. It was a blessing they made DDO an MMO, and gave it VoIP because it was pioneering in that aspect, and it makes for a very unique playing experience. It pushes the boundary of role playing. Instead of playing with the same 6 meatheads every week whenever you can get them all in one place at the same time, DDO is a worldwide experience, and its different every night. DDO = the best rpg/mmo going right now. I would like to see a FR version, that would be wild.
Alurvelve 08-04-07, 04:33 PM	I played DDO for about 2 months and capped my Pal in that time, as well as started on my 2nd toon. It was fun imo, and if it wasnt for SWG I probably would be playing it still. I do not think that it was a bad game cause imp it's not. It just like all other games has a lot of room for improvement. If they do make a FRO game I hope they use DDO as a base and build from there improveing on what they ahve learned from it.
GothicDan 08-04-07, 06:12 PM	You guys all give DDO a bad name but NOONE HAS PLAYED THE GAME. I think it's pretty obvious that some of the people on this thread have played the game. Me? I hate all MMOs. So playing the game would only make me hate it more. :)
Smilin_Bandit 08-05-07, 01:37 AM	Go here and you'll find some short vids of Salvatore talking about making a MMO. :eek: http://www.myspace.com/rasalvatore ~Smilin_Bandit~ :D
Alurvelve 08-05-07, 02:17 AM	Only thing is that it would have to do with Green Giant games (if im remembering thier name right) and he couldnt touch the FR without WOTC permission. IF and thats a if he makes one with this company I am beting it will do with his own created realm of Corona (sp? sorry its late)
Zandilar 08-05-07, 10:09 AM	Heya, You guys all give DDO a bad name but NOONE HAS PLAYED THE GAME. I have played pen and paper for 25 years, and find DDO the best MMO on the market, and by a large margin. World of Warcraft and NWN dont come anywhere close to DDO. It was a blessing they made DDO an MMO, and gave it VoIP because it was pioneering in that aspect, and it makes for a very unique playing experience. It pushes the boundary of role playing. Instead of playing with the same 6 meatheads every week whenever you can get them all in one place at the same time, DDO is a worldwide experience, and its different every night. DDO = the best rpg/mmo going right now. I would like to see a FR version, that would be wild. Umm.. I think I mentioned that I had played DDO. IMHO, VoIP was not a point in favor of the game, and it didn't add to RPing all that much (the main reason why that is so is because VoIP only works within a group). I was on Sarlona, and I only rarely saw people RPing (and because VoIP only works within a group, it was not unusual to see a bunch of people who were obviously grouped standing around staring at nothing, with maybe the occasional emote (from the very limited list of animated emotes the game has), in dead silence... Now, I don't know how many people in this thread have been in a pub recently, but I can tell you they're not dead silent). The other problems with VoIP are that 1) it wasn't always very reliable (pops and crackles, people not setting their volume right), 2) not everyone used it, and not everyone was aware that even if you didn't have a microphone you could still activate it to hear the people who did, and 3) not everyone playing DDO was interested in RPing (there were no specifically RP flagged servers offered at the time I was playing, I'm not sure if that's changed), and they would talk about stuff going on in RL and ignore people who were trying to be in character (and in the worst cases, actually making fun of them). If you've ever played the game Dungeon Hack, you might understand that DDO was very much like that - except that you could have a group. The city of Stormreach serves as a hub for dungeons. You can't go outside and just explore, you can't go outside and just kill a few monsters, and you certainly can't go up to a random NPC and initiate a conversation that doesn't have anything to do with a quest and/or dungeon. All of this kind of destroys any sense of real immersion in the world the game is set in. (The latter point about talking to NPCs is not a problem in just DDO, but pretty much a problem with every single CRPG since the dawn of the gaming industry.) One of the other main problems is that Turbine started off forcing you to group (by making the dungeons only suitable for a group), and then realized their mistake and slowly started to introduce solo difficulty for quests... which I believe they're still introducing... Why? Because they were loosing people, I guess. There is no way to just hop onto DDO and kill 30 minutes of time, if that is all the time you have. Unless you were in an organized guild with regular players, sometimes finding a group was hard - if you were anyone except a Cleric. While I was playing DDO, I was also playing WoW. Now, I'm not playing DDO, but I'm still playing WoW. Perhaps I might try DDO again at some point, but I don't see why. I burned out just getting the favour for the character I wanted as my main (Drow bard, for lack of Changelings).