Forgotten Realms Players: A Census [Archive] - Wizards Community

Forgotten Realms Players: A Census [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BadCatMan
10-06-07, 10:09 AM I think like most folks here, I've been wondering just what kind of audience WotC is catering to, that they have to make such drastic changes to the FR setting in 4e. Obviously they can't all be the vocal fans we see on the forums, or the noisy trolls that make all the fuss. What does that silent majority have to say?

Then I remembered that I'm in joint control of an online shared world FR community, with 47 games and some 238 players with 299 characters.

So with two aims, one to see what the real audience is like, the other to see how 4e might affect us, I decided to take a census. At this stage, I only counted gods, classes, races and alignments. I might do more later.

We have a good mix of players, from veteran Realms fans to fresh-faced beginners. Our reputation for stability and longevity (problematic in online gaming) means that we will garner some non-FR folks, similar to the only-game-in-town situation in pen-and-paper play. It is, I feel, a good reputation of the D&D player base.

Of course, this is a subset of those who would try online play, where the RP component of D&D is necessarily much bigger. But many folks join and soon disappear, no doubt finding online play too sedate for their tastes. Since we haven't purged old characters in a year, such casual players are included in this census too.

However we do restrict most standard games to non-evil characters, standard magic systems and to races found in the FRCS that aren't from the Underdark. So Evil and the ever-popular Drow are severely under-represented.
Evil gods aren't banned, but are less common. We also centre our games around regions, so the Mulhorand game gets a lot of Mulhorandi deities for example.

On with the results:

Deities:

Of the 299 characters, 318 deities were listed as patron deities. Some, bless 'em, listed multiple patron deities (10 characters), none specific (34) or worshipped a whole pantheon (Faerunian - 1, Dwarven - 1, Elven - 2), or worshipped a deity from another race's pantheon (non-human to human, and human to non-human) which just goes to show that players are willing to be a lot more cultural than WotC gives them credit for.

Of the 308 listed deities, the most popular, and the ones with recent attention (rounding up, to 2 decimal places) are:
None or Undecided: 34 - 10.69%
Tymora: 29 - 9.12%
Mystra: 26 - 8.18%
Corellon Larethian: 24 - 7.55%
Tempus: 17 - 5.34%
Oghma: 12 - 3.77%
Lathander: 11 - 3.46%
Mielikki: 8 - 2.52%
Sune: 8 - 2.52%
Tyr: 8 - 2.52%
Moradin: 7 - 2.20%
Ilmater: 6 - 1.89%
Kossuth: 6 - 1.89%
Azuth: 5 - 1.57%
Eilistraee: 4 - 1.26%
Lloth: 4 - 1.26%
Helm: 3 - 0.94%
Savras: 2 - 0.63%
Greyhawkian Deities: 2 - 0.63%
Haela Brightaxe: 1 - 0.31%
Gorm Gulthyn: 1 - 0.31%

By pantheons:
Faerunian: 180 - 56.6%
Elven: 40 - 12.58%
Dwarven: 24 - 7.55%
Drow: 9 - 2.83%
Mulhorandi: 6 - 1.89%
Halfling: 5 - 1.57%
Gnomish: 4 - 1.26%
Orcish: 3 - 0.94%

If anyone wants to see any others, just ask.

So, the results as I see them:

* Many players either could not find a deity to suit their character, or felt no need to. So much for the myth of too many deities, or deities being too controlling. It seems we need more deities.

* Tymora is the most popular deity among players (ie adventurers). Why is she getting sold like a piece of meat between second-rank deities like Tyr and Sune?

* Mystra is the second most popular deity among players, and not just for wizards and sorcerers. There's clerics, paladins and fighters too. And don't assume that it's just because she's the magic goddess; Savras and Azuth and many others are also used for wizards and sorcerers. That's right, one of the most popular deities among all players of FR that were, are now, and might have been has been given the chop, and those PCs left in the lurch.

* We do have one defunct drow game, and between that and some half-drow elsewhere, Eilistraee is equally popular with Lloth. Half the Drow fans will be put out to see her Eili go. (Kiaransalee got 1 worshipper, btw.) And you just know that the naked warrior drow chick is the popular choice.

* Don't think that 1 worshipper in all this means an unpopular deity. Most get between 1 and 5.

* In fact, several deities get no worshippers: Kelemvor, Akadi, Deneir, Finder Wyvernspur, Gwaeron Windstrom, Istishia, Milil, Nobanion, Red Knight, Shiallia, Siamorphe, Ulutiu, Valkur, Berronar Truesilver, Sharindlar, Fenmarel Mestarine, Hanali Celanil, all gnomish deities bar Baervan, Baravar and Callarduran), all halfling deities bar Brandobaris and Yondalla), Geb, Hathor, Isis. (This list excludes Evil deities and racial deities for races we don't normally allow). Some might have been chosen in previous years, but the characters have since been removed (Red Knight for one).

In short, if these results are indeed representative of the existing and potential FR player base, it is my conclusion that WotC's treatment of certain deities in recent events is entirely counter to what that player base actually prefers.

More later, fact-fans.
BadCatMan
10-06-07, 10:10 AM claimed
BadCatMan
10-06-07, 10:14 AM also claimed
BadCatMan
10-06-07, 10:18 AM curse the 30 second wait!
BadCatMan
10-06-07, 10:21 AM and the identical post limit!
Falgata
10-06-07, 11:26 AM Ah well that was fun. I'm one among
6(Ilmater)
8(Mielikki)
and
2 among
28(Tymora)

DM Wolf
Faraer
10-06-07, 02:27 PM That's very interesting, BadCatMan, though of course not good evidence of players in general. Lots for Kossuth (who I doubt has one worshipper in 1000). None for Milil but 12 for Oghma a little surprising. None for Lathander?? I certainly agree about Tymora and Mystra. Good correlation with the 'major' deities of Faiths and Pantheons, though the causation will have worked both ways.
BadCatMan
10-06-07, 09:54 PM How in all the Nine Hells did I miss Lathander?

I've included him, and corrected all the other numbers as a result.

Lathander: 11 - 3.46%
JaiaDrottsingr
10-07-07, 10:30 PM I know three that follow Elistraee.
Four Tymora.
One worships the Demon Lords.
Seven that follow the Dwarven God of Ale (forgot his name).
Three that worship Yollanda.
Eleven Waukeen.
Twenty-four Osiris (don't ask).
Seventeen Sune.
Eighteen that mistook Selune for Sune.
Another Eighteen that know the difference and still worship Selune.
Two Lloth.
Five Pelor (Yes, In FR)
Nine CL.
Ten Yawgmoth (Again, In FR)
One the goddess of the seas (what's her face).
Two Chauntea.
Seven former Chaunteans that pledged allegiance to Cyric.
Six of those went over to Bane, the other died in real life.
And thirty two Lathander.

All the ones that worshiped Lathander thought they were being original, too. That's the sad thing.
Keahi19
10-11-07, 01:27 AM I prefer Gond to be honest. I know I mentioned that before, but EHh. And it is interesting that Cyric and Shar the two pets aren't high on there.
Fabius Maximus
10-11-07, 10:41 AM * Many players either could not find a deity to suit their character, or felt no need to. So much for the myth of too many deities, or deities being too controlling. It seems we need more deities.

* Tymora is the most popular deity among players (ie adventurers). Why is she getting sold like a piece of meat between second-rank deities like Tyr and Sune?

* Mystra is the second most popular deity among players, and not just for wizards and sorcerers. There's clerics, paladins and fighters too. And don't assume that it's just because she's the magic goddess; Savras and Azuth and many others are also used for wizards and sorcerers. That's right, one of the most popular deities among all players of FR that were, are now, and might have been has been given the chop, and those PCs left in the lurch.
I rather think all this has something to do with knowledge. The players who don't choose any deities might not know enough about the pantheons to choose a god. Or they don't care, because there are no repercussions on the online games when they die. Or are there?

The other two phenomena might come from the fact that Tymora and Mystra are two of the most featured goddesses in all the FR novels, especially the older ones. The casual players just don't know about other gods.

In short, if these results are indeed representative of the existing and potential FR player base, it is my conclusion that WotC's treatment of certain deities in recent events is entirely counter to what that player base actually prefers.

More later, fact-fans.
The results are not representative. You've got not enough participants.
bykov1
10-11-07, 06:05 PM Hmmm, I thought I listed my deities in the census, but obviously I did not.

Annek Chaulaunt'il has venerated Solonar Thelandria a majority of his life, but over his excursions with the Dragon's Claw has developed a healthy respect for Tymora.

Bykov.
meto30
10-13-07, 03:41 PM Whoa. I should have been in that community! One worshipper of Red Knight right here. (My Neverwinter Nights character worshipped Red Knight)

I think Kelemvor is unpopular because he is rarely mentioned. Now that NWN2:MotB is heavily themed with Kelemvor and his followers, we should see more Kelemvorites, methinks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BadCatMan 10-06-07, 10:09 AM	I think like most folks here, I've been wondering just what kind of audience WotC is catering to, that they have to make such drastic changes to the FR setting in 4e. Obviously they can't all be the vocal fans we see on the forums, or the noisy trolls that make all the fuss. What does that silent majority have to say? Then I remembered that I'm in joint control of an online shared world FR community, with 47 games and some 238 players with 299 characters. So with two aims, one to see what the real audience is like, the other to see how 4e might affect us, I decided to take a census. At this stage, I only counted gods, classes, races and alignments. I might do more later. We have a good mix of players, from veteran Realms fans to fresh-faced beginners. Our reputation for stability and longevity (problematic in online gaming) means that we will garner some non-FR folks, similar to the only-game-in-town situation in pen-and-paper play. It is, I feel, a good reputation of the D&D player base. Of course, this is a subset of those who would try online play, where the RP component of D&D is necessarily much bigger. But many folks join and soon disappear, no doubt finding online play too sedate for their tastes. Since we haven't purged old characters in a year, such casual players are included in this census too. However we do restrict most standard games to non-evil characters, standard magic systems and to races found in the FRCS that aren't from the Underdark. So Evil and the ever-popular Drow are severely under-represented. Evil gods aren't banned, but are less common. We also centre our games around regions, so the Mulhorand game gets a lot of Mulhorandi deities for example. On with the results: Deities: Of the 299 characters, 318 deities were listed as patron deities. Some, bless 'em, listed multiple patron deities (10 characters), none specific (34) or worshipped a whole pantheon (Faerunian - 1, Dwarven - 1, Elven - 2), or worshipped a deity from another race's pantheon (non-human to human, and human to non-human) which just goes to show that players are willing to be a lot more cultural than WotC gives them credit for. Of the 308 listed deities, the most popular, and the ones with recent attention (rounding up, to 2 decimal places) are: None or Undecided: 34 - 10.69% Tymora: 29 - 9.12% Mystra: 26 - 8.18% Corellon Larethian: 24 - 7.55% Tempus: 17 - 5.34% Oghma: 12 - 3.77% Lathander: 11 - 3.46% Mielikki: 8 - 2.52% Sune: 8 - 2.52% Tyr: 8 - 2.52% Moradin: 7 - 2.20% Ilmater: 6 - 1.89% Kossuth: 6 - 1.89% Azuth: 5 - 1.57% Eilistraee: 4 - 1.26% Lloth: 4 - 1.26% Helm: 3 - 0.94% Savras: 2 - 0.63% Greyhawkian Deities: 2 - 0.63% Haela Brightaxe: 1 - 0.31% Gorm Gulthyn: 1 - 0.31% By pantheons: Faerunian: 180 - 56.6% Elven: 40 - 12.58% Dwarven: 24 - 7.55% Drow: 9 - 2.83% Mulhorandi: 6 - 1.89% Halfling: 5 - 1.57% Gnomish: 4 - 1.26% Orcish: 3 - 0.94% If anyone wants to see any others, just ask. So, the results as I see them: * Many players either could not find a deity to suit their character, or felt no need to. So much for the myth of too many deities, or deities being too controlling. It seems we need more deities. * Tymora is the most popular deity among players (ie adventurers). Why is she getting sold like a piece of meat between second-rank deities like Tyr and Sune? * Mystra is the second most popular deity among players, and not just for wizards and sorcerers. There's clerics, paladins and fighters too. And don't assume that it's just because she's the magic goddess; Savras and Azuth and many others are also used for wizards and sorcerers. That's right, one of the most popular deities among all players of FR that were, are now, and might have been has been given the chop, and those PCs left in the lurch. * We do have one defunct drow game, and between that and some half-drow elsewhere, Eilistraee is equally popular with Lloth. Half the Drow fans will be put out to see her Eili go. (Kiaransalee got 1 worshipper, btw.) And you just know that the naked warrior drow chick is the popular choice. * Don't think that 1 worshipper in all this means an unpopular deity. Most get between 1 and 5. * In fact, several deities get no worshippers: Kelemvor, Akadi, Deneir, Finder Wyvernspur, Gwaeron Windstrom, Istishia, Milil, Nobanion, Red Knight, Shiallia, Siamorphe, Ulutiu, Valkur, Berronar Truesilver, Sharindlar, Fenmarel Mestarine, Hanali Celanil, all gnomish deities bar Baervan, Baravar and Callarduran), all halfling deities bar Brandobaris and Yondalla), Geb, Hathor, Isis. (This list excludes Evil deities and racial deities for races we don't normally allow). Some might have been chosen in previous years, but the characters have since been removed (Red Knight for one). In short, if these results are indeed representative of the existing and potential FR player base, it is my conclusion that WotC's treatment of certain deities in recent events is entirely counter to what that player base actually prefers. More later, fact-fans.
BadCatMan 10-06-07, 10:10 AM	claimed
BadCatMan 10-06-07, 10:14 AM	also claimed
BadCatMan 10-06-07, 10:18 AM	curse the 30 second wait!
BadCatMan 10-06-07, 10:21 AM	and the identical post limit!
Falgata 10-06-07, 11:26 AM	Ah well that was fun. I'm one among 6(Ilmater) 8(Mielikki) and 2 among 28(Tymora) DM Wolf
Faraer 10-06-07, 02:27 PM	That's very interesting, BadCatMan, though of course not good evidence of players in general. Lots for Kossuth (who I doubt has one worshipper in 1000). None for Milil but 12 for Oghma a little surprising. None for Lathander?? I certainly agree about Tymora and Mystra. Good correlation with the 'major' deities of Faiths and Pantheons, though the causation will have worked both ways.
BadCatMan 10-06-07, 09:54 PM	How in all the Nine Hells did I miss Lathander? I've included him, and corrected all the other numbers as a result. Lathander: 11 - 3.46%
JaiaDrottsingr 10-07-07, 10:30 PM	I know three that follow Elistraee. Four Tymora. One worships the Demon Lords. Seven that follow the Dwarven God of Ale (forgot his name). Three that worship Yollanda. Eleven Waukeen. Twenty-four Osiris (don't ask). Seventeen Sune. Eighteen that mistook Selune for Sune. Another Eighteen that know the difference and still worship Selune. Two Lloth. Five Pelor (Yes, In FR) Nine CL. Ten Yawgmoth (Again, In FR) One the goddess of the seas (what's her face). Two Chauntea. Seven former Chaunteans that pledged allegiance to Cyric. Six of those went over to Bane, the other died in real life. And thirty two Lathander. All the ones that worshiped Lathander thought they were being original, too. That's the sad thing.
Keahi19 10-11-07, 01:27 AM	I prefer Gond to be honest. I know I mentioned that before, but EHh. And it is interesting that Cyric and Shar the two pets aren't high on there.
Fabius Maximus 10-11-07, 10:41 AM	* Many players either could not find a deity to suit their character, or felt no need to. So much for the myth of too many deities, or deities being too controlling. It seems we need more deities. * Tymora is the most popular deity among players (ie adventurers). Why is she getting sold like a piece of meat between second-rank deities like Tyr and Sune? * Mystra is the second most popular deity among players, and not just for wizards and sorcerers. There's clerics, paladins and fighters too. And don't assume that it's just because she's the magic goddess; Savras and Azuth and many others are also used for wizards and sorcerers. That's right, one of the most popular deities among all players of FR that were, are now, and might have been has been given the chop, and those PCs left in the lurch. I rather think all this has something to do with knowledge. The players who don't choose any deities might not know enough about the pantheons to choose a god. Or they don't care, because there are no repercussions on the online games when they die. Or are there? The other two phenomena might come from the fact that Tymora and Mystra are two of the most featured goddesses in all the FR novels, especially the older ones. The casual players just don't know about other gods. In short, if these results are indeed representative of the existing and potential FR player base, it is my conclusion that WotC's treatment of certain deities in recent events is entirely counter to what that player base actually prefers. More later, fact-fans. The results are not representative. You've got not enough participants.
bykov1 10-11-07, 06:05 PM	Hmmm, I thought I listed my deities in the census, but obviously I did not. Annek Chaulaunt'il has venerated Solonar Thelandria a majority of his life, but over his excursions with the Dragon's Claw has developed a healthy respect for Tymora. Bykov.
meto30 10-13-07, 03:41 PM	Whoa. I should have been in that community! One worshipper of Red Knight right here. (My Neverwinter Nights character worshipped Red Knight) I think Kelemvor is unpopular because he is rarely mentioned. Now that NWN2:MotB is heavily themed with Kelemvor and his followers, we should see more Kelemvorites, methinks.