Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Razz 01-05-06, 02:22 PM	I had an argument with a player of mine. Seems him and his friend have made two rogues. Fine. These rogues are to be in the Realms what "gangsta"s are in the modern world. Fine. But here's where the argument started. They want to use modern slang in the Realms. As a DM in his right mind, I didn't let it fly. So now I have them beating me down for "Whatever happened to the DM's right to just let the players have FUN? We want to have them speak ebonics, so let it be. Just find a Realms-historical meaning for words like 'homie' or like '*****'!" (please excuse this example, but it was important to bring up and it is for intelligent discussion and I hope no one is offended) So, I said the DM's magic words NO, which I hardly ever used. Seems I spoiled my players too much. There was a riot, pretty much, and heated debates. My point was, make up your own fantasy-slang, stop drawing me into reality with this modern slang. It just doesn't fit, especially in the Realms. Anyone agree? Anyone here know of a compromise I can come up with? I mean as a DM, I should let the players have their fun. That's what keeps the playing. But, as a DM, I also need to support the gaming world as is. I mean, what will be next, paladins with pimped out special mounts and bling bling all over their armor flipping the Sword Coast-West Side sign? Do I need help? Lots. LOL Anyone know of actual Realms-slang that CAN be used?
GothicDan 01-05-06, 02:35 PM	I would probably rip my players' heads off if they ever wanted to do this. To me, it's sort of a sign of the sort of mindset that 3E/WotC's design methods instills in their players - with "everything" being allowed, the integrity of what should be allowed is damaged. That being said, there's always Sigillian Cant. ;)
Faraer 01-05-06, 02:43 PM	How people talk is part of the setting in just the same way as its geography is. Only the fact that such stuff is less easily summarizable creates the illusion that it's something different. Introducing an alien manner of speech is equivalent to insisting your character is from a non-existent country or race. Further, what your players want is also against the deeper workings of the Realms, which eschews things too close to our world precisely because it makes people think of those connotations rather than the Realms' own. My advice is choose players who do find it fun to cooperate with your campaign and setting. Check Ed's candlekeep.com posts for Realms slang. It shouldn't be too hard to make up more in compatible style. My favourite bit of Planescape cant, by far, was the the bizarreness of Code of Ethics-era TSR products including cockney rhyming slang for pudenda.
Gray Richardson 01-06-06, 05:10 AM	I don't think the DM is wrong, nor do I think the players are wrong. I see an incompatability of gaming styles. But consider: Technically, there is no English in the Realms at all. We use English to approximate the common tongue, and pretty much every other language in the Realms, but they don't speak English in the Realms. Since it is merely a convention in the first place to use English as a substitute for Realms languages, I think a reasonable argument could be made that a modern, urban dialect of English could stand in for a dialect of the common tongue that is spoken by a group of urban toughs. This would be no different than choosing a posh Brittish accent to role-play the voice of an aristocrat in the Realms, or choosing a Brooklyn-style accent to role-play a mobster type character. No matter what language the players are speaking, everyone understands that it is just role-playing and that they are not really speaking the language of Faerūn. The players are right to think the DM should allow them to have fun. Gaming is ultimately about having fun together. But it should be fun for the DM too, and the DM is striving for a feel that takes you out of the modern world to a fantasy setting with certain traditions. Anachronistic speech patterns can certainly present a challenge to creating that fantasy atmosphere. Hopefully your group has the communication skills necessary to resolve the conflict. Talk it out. Take a vote. If you can't resolve it then don't play together. I do think that if the DM concedes and allows the players to role-play their characters the way they want to, then their manner of speech will probably quickly come to seem normal and appropriate to the characters and will likely not bother the DM as much after a time.
Lord Karsus 01-06-06, 05:40 AM	-Slang like "Homie" and such shouldn't be allowed, for one main reason. They start saying "Yo, my Halfling Homie!". It's all fine and good. But, soon, the out-of-character joking will become greatly increased, they players will get off track faster, and ultimatley, it will just make playing harder. How is Joe Blow's game which allows elven paladins speaking ebonics in a big city with halfling gangstas and gnomish scientists making Warforged style golems impinging on YOUR fun in YOUR games? -Hey, lay off'a the Elven Paladins!
WVgamer 01-06-06, 05:41 AM	A compramise might be thieves' cant or something, but even I would slug those who use ebonics, and I'm notorius for allowing stuff. I saw a guide to theives cant over at Candlekeep. I use it when a play a colorful rogue.
Zevox 01-06-06, 11:49 AM	Personally, I've got to agree with the above - no way I'd permit my players to start using modern slang in our Realms games. The fact that I absolutely hate modern slang aside, it just doesn't fit. Fortunately none of my players really use such words (aside from my brother's affinity for the word - if you can call it that - "pwn", but he doesn't use it during our games, so no problem there). For a similar thing, I'd expect thieves cant would work. An excellent example of it can be found in the novel The Shattered Mask, where Shamur Uskevren recites some to get the attention of some thieves (page 225-26 in my book). Where you could find it beyond that I don't know however... Zevox
Lord Karsus 01-06-06, 01:16 PM	Fortunately none of my players really use such words (aside from my brother's affinity for the word - if you can call it that - "pwn", but he doesn't use it during our games, so no problem there). -Pwn? What is that supposed to convey? How is it even pronounced!? :confused:
Dark Wizard 01-06-06, 02:34 PM	http://www.answers.com/pwn
Lord Karsus 01-06-06, 10:32 PM	http://www.answers.com/pwn -I feel so old. But yet, I am not even halfway done with college yet. I seem to be so out of touch with my contemporaries...
GothicDan 01-06-06, 10:39 PM	Don't feel bad. I wouldn't know such terminology if half of my friends weren't Comp Sci majors.
Lord Karsus 01-07-06, 12:16 AM	Don't feel bad. I wouldn't know such terminology if half of my friends weren't Comp Sci majors. -Ah, that makes the pain feel a little more bearable.
Elven_Rogue 01-10-06, 05:43 AM	Well I don't know a great deal about dm'ing but I seem to remember one of the pearls of wisdom from the DMs guide being along the lines of: If things aren't going well take your players aside and explain that what they're doing is taking the fun out of dm'ing for you. You've put the effort in to develop a fun campaign for them to play, but part of your enjoyment comes from them playing within the constraints of the campaign. Good luck with the negotiation. If all else fails you could always pick up a copy of shadowrun ;) eR
Sweethug 01-10-06, 08:52 AM	So, i am currently dming a realms campaign and i am using slang (well actually the french version of slang). Lots of the orcs and goblins i am playing are talking in slang b/c to me it's an apropriate way of roleplaying them. I am using anything to improve the flavour of my NPC's (and the way they talk is one of the major point here) and dont see any problem when my players do it for their characters aswell. As Gray said, none of the languages talked in the real world are matching those used in the realms. As for the urban/modernic side of slang, it's like in regular language, just avoid terms depicting things that dont exist in a fantasy RP, like cars, computers, phone... Just my 2 cp.
Faraer 01-10-06, 11:06 AM	I agree with most of what Gray said, but -- and I hate to break the conceit -- the Realms is not a fictional real world but a literary construct, and the way characters speak is no less part of it because of the nominal (i.e. we don't experience it) fantasy of their speaking an alien language called Common. There's no external moral compulsion to stick to any part of that fictional construct in play, it's a matter of social contract. If PCs warning each other with "Yo!" instead of "'Ware!" breaks the mood of the campaign's setting, they have to sort it out as people. If I was this DM, as I said, I know I'd pick players who did find it fun to play, in immersive detail, in the Realms.
GothicDan 01-10-06, 01:07 PM	If I was this DM, as I said, I know I'd pick players who did find it fun to play, in immersive detail, in the Realms. Quoted for prudence.
Link182 01-10-06, 07:41 PM	I dont know. I honestly couldn't care less if my players wanted to adopt some different way of speaking, even if it didn't fit The Realms and was modern. At least they're interested in getting involved with their characters. Didn't Han Solo once say to Luke Skywalker, "it ain't like dusting crops kid". Dusting crops? They dust crops in space on a desert planet? Paying way to much attention to character slang and what not can take away from more important aspects of the game.
WizO_Lyoness 01-10-06, 09:09 PM	The answer is: The DM makes the rules. :) -WizO Lyoness
Lord Karsus 01-12-06, 07:26 AM	-It is not that there is anything wrong with using slangs. If you want people to say, "Yo!" instead of, "Greetings, friend. Well met!", fine. Go ahead. But, in my opinion, and I am sure many of you share this opinion, and that many of you might have evidence of this- slang like this lessens the game. People start walking around saying, "Yo", and yada-yada-yada, then they start goofing off, then the game begins erupting into chaos.
Aaron L 01-12-06, 08:45 PM	Well, I'd say there is a fine line between realizing that none of the characters are speaking English at all and youre all just approximating thier speech, and getting ridicullius. Speaking in ebonics crosses the line.