Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoblinWarrior 09-22-03, 03:04 AM	Who has these? I have a bunch here they are: Neverwinter Nights (tried SOU but doesn't own) Baldur's Gate- tales of sword coast Icewind Dale II & bonus pack FR Classics pack-14 games of the original classics(bought at walmart $5) WHICH INCLUDES: Menzoberranzen :b: dungeon hack blood & magic pool of radiance pools of darkness eye of the beholder I, II, III :behold: Hillsfar and others... Put the FR computer games that you own here and your comments... :D
Darkmistress 09-22-03, 04:01 AM	Baldur's Gate - okay. Too many empty areas. I like the story, but the lack of NPC interaction and the slow pace make it a bit dull. Baldur's Gate II - the second best in the IE game family, IMO. NPC interaction that makes it all worthwhile, areas that actually have a point to them. So-so story, but hey, I like Irenicus' voice. Throne of Bhaal - makes me go "What...?" so awfully often. Full of overpowered items, silly scenarios, ridiculously high levels. Well, to be sure, compared to most newer CRPGs, it still looks divine. Icewind Dale + Heart of Winter + Trials of the Luremaster - great atmosphere, great music, and excellent game for what it is: fun dungeon crawl. Icewind Dale II - ugh. I don't know what is wrong with this game, but I just can't force myself to go through it more than once. Maybe 3E rules in IE don't sit well with me? Nah. Just... something's missing, and I can't for the life of me tell what. Maybe the lackluster storytelling? The lack of option to join the twins? Oh, wait -- the hordes of monsters that scream "quantity over quality." The AI is better than that of other IE games, but being swarmed over by too many monsters isn't fun. Pool of Radiance 2: Ruins of Myth Drannor - played the demo and never wanted to pick up the full game. The turn-based combat annoys me to no end, and the full game is said to come with a bug that can erase your OS, not to mention being a mindless, unfun hack'n'slash. Thanks but no thanks. Oh, and the implementation of D&D rules is laughable. I'm sorry, but a game where I can't even customize my character's advancement? And no option for certain core classes? What is this, a bad electronic joke? Neverwinter Nights - dubbed NeverWorking Right, and it deserves it. Clumsy radial menu, bloody godawful official campaign that was advertised to be what it isn't, laughable graphics that are at least three years old (and still run with poorer performance than some other games with better graphics. Bioware, please, go back to 2D engines, okay?), limited game engine... I could go on. Shadows of Undrentide - I didn't pay for this, but don't ask why I have it. The new contents are few and ignorable, and the prestige classes I could live without. The new official campaign is better than the original, but still poorer than many of the user-made ones. More roleplaying options and all that, but the story doesn't hold my attention one bit. All in all, a barely tolerable expansion pack to a disappointing, overhyped, overrated game. I suppose that's an improvement, hey? Planescape: Torment - strictly, not FR, but still AD&D. IMO, the best story in a CRPG ever. And the avatars are actually unique as opposed to the awful ones in the other IE games. (BG2's paperdolls and avatars, anyone? Yuck!)
GoblinWarrior 09-22-03, 04:41 PM	I think nwn and baldurs gate II are the best ones. The 2d classics are kinda boring though. for nwn just change the camera to chase and it works fine (NEVER USE DRIVING OR STUCK CAMERAs on this game) i dont think many ppl will buy games if they stay 2d like icewind dale or baldur's They are also making another expansion added on to SOU (i forgot what its called, go to nwn.bioware.com to find it out released on DEC
Darkmistress 09-22-03, 10:42 PM	Yes, yes, I know all about it. In fact, I use the camera hack for better viewpoint and the graphics still stink to high heavens. The use of tilesets makes everything horribly repetitive. Look at the other games released in about the same time. Dungeon Siege. Morrowind. I don't see the need to go 3D, especially when the devs can't do it right. Some of the more recent -- and decent -- RPGs are still in 2D. See Divine Divinity, the upcoming Riftrunner, and -- though it is a questionable product, I still rank it above NWN; I rank very few things below NWN -- Lionheart. Am not enthusiastic about the next expansion pack. I'll get it, but like SoU, it'll be a pirated version. I'm not giving another cent to Bioware, and that's that. Unless the PC version of KoTOR proves to be really, really good.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-22-03, 11:14 PM	I don't see the need to go 3D, especially when the devs can't do it right. Exactly my thoughts as well. NWN was okay in my opinion but the graphics were limited and the camera was jerky at times. I loved the early FR games like Pool of Radiance and Dungeon Hack. RPGs are nice on the computer but I have a deep seated love for the 16 bit Super Nintendo RPGs. Nowadays Role playing games have gone from epic storylines that stretch for 60 hours into 15 hour hackfests with too much time and money devoted to flashy CGI cut scenes and shallow characters. Give me good old plot anyday.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-22-03, 11:18 PM	*frowns* I do not approve of pirating games, even if I don't like/am mad at the company, but that's all I will say about that. That said, I agree with many of your comments, Darkmistress. I do enjoy NWN, but: --The single player campaign is mediocre at best. --Since I don't have much scripting knowledge, I cannot say if I will ever be able to make modules with the game--which was the whole point! IIRC the game didn't even come with a good manual (or any manual, I don't remember which) to show the player how to actually make their own module.:mad:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-22-03, 11:21 PM	Originally posted by Darkmistress I don't see the need to go 3D, especially when the devs can't do it right. Not to mention the fact that it was always their intent to make the NWN campaigns be designed for *one* character with a henchman the player can't control. To me, that just takes away the feeling of D&D; gives the game a "lonely" feel at times. The developers have said the new expansion will allow the player to use 2 henchmen, which I guess is a bit better, but it won't matter a whit unless they can fix the crappy henchman AI.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-22-03, 11:25 PM	IIRC the game didn't even come with a good manual Indeed. That was a big downfall for that game. NWN's Builder's guide is an additional 15 dollars to get...which should have come with the 50 dollar game in the first place, even a rough "how to do" pamplet would have been appreciated. My scripting knowledge is okay but designing modules is very time consuming and you have to then depend on the few rare good module makers out there to come up with something worth playing. The concept of being able to design your own game is great but they should have provided an easier to use system for doing it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-22-03, 11:31 PM	Originally posted by Alrunic Silverfyre Indeed. That was a big downfall for that game. NWN's Builder's guide is an additional 15 dollars to get...which should have come with the 50 dollar game in the first place, even a rough "how to do" pamplet would have been appreciated. Definately! A "how to" pamplet should have already been in the game that I paid 50+ dollars for. You don't sell/market a game based on it's ability to let you create modules, and then make the customer pay for a separate manual for doing just that, IMO. The concept of being able to design your own game is great but they should have provided an easier to use system for doing it. I could not agree more. The implemented system isn't really something one can figure out their own *IF* they want to design a quality module that is worth playing.
Joneleth Talshara 09-22-03, 11:49 PM	I could not agree more. The implemented system isn't really something one can figure out their own *IF* they want to design a quality module that is worth playing. Unfortunately true, for single module makers. However, I have to point out that the NWN community has managed to make quite a few good ones. The Penultima comedy module line, for example.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-22-03, 11:51 PM	The Dreamcatcher series was amazing too.
Darkmistress 09-23-03, 12:34 AM	Rinonalyrna said: I do not approve of pirating games, even if I don't like/am mad at the company, but that's all I will say about that. Yes, morally reprehensible female dog is I. ;) And have you tried the following? Elegia Eternum (I love this one to little bits - original soundtrack and voiceacting ahoy! Plus really great atmosphere. Not much roleplaying, sorta like interactive movie, but still damn good. I'm drooling over the sequel), The Art of Thanaturge (will the next installment please come out, pleeeease? Great scripting, amazing roleplaying opportunities for evil people, brilliant product overall), to name but a few. And Necromancer: Allegiance is good, too. A bit buggy, but still creative. The sad thing is, all of these and more are better than the stuff that comes with the game. I kid you not. Have you looked at some of the textures/screenshots from City of Doors Initiative or 10 Days of Dragonlance? Salivate salivate! EDIT: If you really want to make your own module, try doing a search for Lilac's script generator at NWVault.
GoblinWarrior 09-23-03, 12:36 AM	yea tilesets get repetitive but the story is one of the best and its easier to get into multiplayer games ALSO theres server hosting with tons of servers (instead of the 3 person party in baldurs) ANOTHER good thing about NWN is that it HAS A MODULE MAKER AND DM CLIENT, this is extremely good, otherwise the game would be bad. The ability to be a dm or create your own games with the module kit is awesome. Many hoped for this feature for Baldurs gate Maybe they might release a client to create baldurs gate modules later....:P:
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-23-03, 12:40 AM	Elegia Eternum was one of the greatest modules on made for NWN...one of the best I have ever played. It is short but to the point and is full of great interaction between PC and NPC. Wonderful storyline as well. Definitely play this one if you guys get a chance.
Darkmistress 09-23-03, 12:59 AM	Originally posted by GoblinWarrior yea tilesets get repetitive but the story is one of the best and its easier to get into multiplayer games What story? The official campaign? Either you're joking, or you're masochistic, or maybe my definition of "good" and yours just aren't the same. In which case... uh, never mind. ANOTHER good thing about NWN is that it HAS A MODULE MAKER AND DM CLIENT, this is extremely good, otherwise the game would be bad. [/B] Question: Was there a good manual on how to do scripting and use the toolset in the game's box? No? Then it's moot. Question: Was the game shipped as "Aurora Engine: The Toolset" or "Neverwinter Nights"? If it was shipped as the former, then the reeking, rotten official campaign may have been accused. But since it wasn't, my opinion of it still stands: NeverWorking Right is one of the most overrated, overhyped pieces of electronic garbage ever. You can't judge it just by the toolset -- which isn't all that spectacular anyway -- because it is only half of the game. The official campaign is the other half. Oh, and I don't like multiplayer. That's why most modules I mentioned as being my favourites are single-player focused modules. If I wanted to interact with other people, I'd have gone back to EverQuest (whose interface is far, far superior. Radial menu, my rosy red behind!).
Joneleth Talshara 09-23-03, 03:50 AM	What story? The official campaign? Either you're joking, or you're masochistic, or maybe my definition of "good" and yours just aren't the same. In which case... uh, never mind. I'll have to agree here. The NWN OC was... a complete and utter failure. Question: Was there a good manual on how to do scripting and use the toolset in the game's box? No? Then it's moot. Question: Was the game shipped as "Aurora Engine: The Toolset" or "Neverwinter Nights"? If it was shipped as the former, then the reeking, rotten official campaign may have been accused. But since it wasn't, my opinion of it still stands: NeverWorking Right is one of the most overrated, overhyped pieces of electronic garbage ever. You can't judge it just by the toolset -- which isn't all that spectacular anyway -- because it is only half of the game. The official campaign is the other half. Oh, and I don't like multiplayer. That's why most modules I mentioned as being my favourites are single-player focused modules. If I wanted to interact with other people, I'd have gone back to EverQuest (whose interface is far, far superior. Radial menu, my rosy red behind!). Now, what they should be doing is producing Planescape: Torment II...
Darkmistress 09-23-03, 04:36 AM	What is (almost definitely) going to come out is Fallout 3. Dear gods, I hate turn-based games. Give us another Planescape game, damn it. I don't care if it's tied in with TNO's story or not, I just bloody want a bloody Plancescape CRPG. :sad: I think I'll just go into the corner and cry now.
Joneleth Talshara 09-23-03, 04:39 AM	Unfortunately, Torment was a commercial dead fish. I doubt the bean-counters would approve another Planescape.
Darkmistress 09-23-03, 05:23 AM	Yes, I know. But the sale number's higher than most people thought, though. It wasn't a total failure, but it didn't have Diablo's sales, either.
Fredegar The White 09-23-03, 05:32 AM	ooooopsss my bad!
Joneleth Talshara 09-23-03, 05:32 AM	However, when compared to the Baldur's Gate line, and even the Icewind Dale line, it didn't do too well. At least CODI is doing something in NWN along those lines.
Zanan 09-23-03, 07:00 AM	One that has posted missing so far is ... "Descent to Undermountain" which is in the Ultima - Underworld mood, but lacks a bit of graphic (or my PC isn't good enough). I would have liked to play through it, but it continously crashed at a certain stage and I never received any help from the producers ... NB: "Menzoberranzan" is as much cult as the aforementioned "Ultima - Underworld" and for one, Drizzt is not that long in the game that it gets annoying :smirk: (Speaking of Menzoberranzan, there were two "Ravenloft: Stoneprophet" games as well, not that bad either (at their time).
Joneleth Talshara 09-23-03, 07:01 AM	The old Gold Box series were the best at the time. Pity they haven't aged well.
Talos_911 09-23-03, 07:52 AM	I own quite a few FR related CRPGs -Baldur's Gate II / Throne of Bhaal One word to describe this game... Epic ! An awesome story with endless number of sidequests and Rich NPC interactions make this game a must have. Although I must say that ToB is a little too combat centric and a little too overpowered for me...I mean, my 30th level Inquisitor and my 20 Kensai/ 15 mage (second run character) both easily slew dragons left and right in the expansion. Still, I just love it. -Icewind Dale + Heart of Winter + Trials of the Luremaster A fun light RPG with combat all over the place. Amazing music, setting, graphics and Heart of Fury mode make this a fun adventure... you never get bored of this no matter how many times you play it ! -Icewind Dale II This game started out pretty well. I loved the idea of our stalwart PCs taking on a Goblin horde...but as the game progressed, the pace was bogged down by tedious puzzle solving (Dark woods anyone ?). It seems as if the designers wanted to pump up the intellectual side of the game... what they didn't understand that focus on combat was the key to IWDs succcess... ah well, 3E rules made up for it...and dragons too (even if they were crappy White Dragons!) -Neverwinter Nights I never played past the second act... firstly, it really slowed down at the drop of a hat. Secondly, after playing the above games, I just couldn't play without a party... the henchmen sucked (until where I played anyway) and while your PC fought the city's undead, you fought the crappy camera and menu system. -Planescape Torment Yup, its not FR, but it is one of the most engaging games ever created. The story is soooo deep and the world is very interesting, and detailed. I especially love the spell effects. even minor spells make the screen go red and shake and some spells have their own in-game cinematics ! really awesome work with the graphics...really detailed, yet quite low requirements....this is the engine NWN should've used. -Talos_911
Darkmistress 09-23-03, 07:58 AM	-Neverwinter Nights I never played past the second act... firstly, it really slowed down at the drop of a hat. Secondly, after playing the above games, I just couldn't play without a party... the henchmen sucked (until where I played anyway) It doesn't get better -- not in the later chapters, and certainly not in SoU. There's some user-made henchman AI out there, though, I think.
Joneleth Talshara 09-23-03, 09:33 AM	To submit a crude analogy - When user-made modules kick the official campaign's ass, you know there's something wrong with the game.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-23-03, 11:30 AM	Great analogy! And so true...
D'Rath 09-23-03, 11:39 AM	The strength of NWN is its multiplayer capabilities and the worlds made by players, the OC is a pile of crap. If one is playing with a DM and a small group of freinds it is possible to recreate much of the feel of the PnP. One PW that is worth checking out is ALFA (http://www.alandfaraway.net/) , also check out NWN Vault, City of Arabel, and Toril project. The player community has gone a long way to redeem this game.
GoblinWarrior 09-23-03, 07:00 PM	:D Of course not everyone's a master at module building(with all the triggers and stuff... so a good manual is very important. The module kit should be simpler, such as the Starcraft MapEdit or Warcraft III mapeditor.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-24-03, 11:00 PM	Thanks to everyone (including Darkmistress :)) for the module suggestions for NWN. One of these days I should DL and play them. It's funny: I HAVE heard plenty of people say that many user-made mods are actually better than the "official" mods. It's no excuse to say that the OCs are just "examples" of what can be done with the tileset, because that isn't true: 1) We *were* promised that the OC would be an epic, worthwhile story on par with past stories (ie Baldur's Gate) 2) Like it or not, the toolset is driven by the official campaign, not the other way around. If you don't believe me, visit the official forums. The designers even mentioned on said forums that the new features for the upcoming expansion are created for the OC--the story wasn't created for the new features. On a different note... Someone mentioned before that they were able to buy the old gold box classics in one set. I've never played them before and I would like to buy this, even if the games haven't aged well. However, I looked in a few stores (including Wal-Mart) and couldn't find this collection; I also looked on line and couldn't find anything. What is the actual title of this collection, and how can I buy it???
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-24-03, 11:05 PM	It is called the Forgotten Realms Archives Silver Edition. It contained a lot of the old gold edition games. Here is an Ebay listing for it (no, I am not the seller.. hehe).. Ebay Listing for FR Achives (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048993167&category=11050) I have a copy as well...if you really care to purchase it, go ahead and PM me. I am sure I can work something out for ya as I rarely have time to play PC games nowadays.
GoblinWarrior 09-25-03, 12:33 AM	I found mines while I was at Wal-Mart for $5 good deal, 14 games, $5 the games are simple so they can cram 14 games onto one cd.:)
Darkmistress 09-25-03, 12:41 AM	But will they run on WinXP? WinME or 98 won't have problems, 'cause they're still DOS-based. XP ain't.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-25-03, 12:48 AM	A good question Darkmistress (most of yours are...) and I can answer that seeing as I own the game. Unfortunately, it won't run on Xp since it isn't DOS based. I fortunately have an older Dell with 95 on it that can still run the games but I haven't played them for ages. The games do need an OS that is Dos based or one that at least has a way to get into the command prompt screen for DOS.
Darkmistress 09-25-03, 01:01 AM	Ah, well. The joy of being semi-computer literate. ;) I have a laptop and an older desktop that have ME, at least. Not that I can actually find those games where I live, anyway, though there're ways of getting them. I'm swamped with games at the moment, though. Are the oldies worth it?
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-25-03, 01:15 AM	The oldies are gorgeous games. I throughly enjoyed them. ME accepts them but make sure you have a boot disk that will load DOS up for you properly. That got to be a pain for me.
GoblinWarrior 09-25-03, 01:45 AM	I didnt reinstall the classics when i changed to XP, so im not sure but im sure theyll work. It said (Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME) and XP is a combination of 95, 98 and ME. I think it would work. If someone would make a module, Baldur's Gate. Based on the game, like a nwn version of Baldurs gate. That would be cool, or some other sequel...:)
GoblinWarrior 09-25-03, 01:47 AM	THey are all mostly very 2d dungeon scrollers where you kill a zombie, get a key, open a door, and proceed down. Pick from a range of dagger to broadsword. But some of them are real good. Beholder games are good, so is hillsfar.:rolleyes:
Darkmistress 09-25-03, 02:48 AM	Originally posted by GoblinWarrior Based on the game, like a nwn version of Baldurs gate. That would be cool, or some other sequel...:) It is, unfortunately, not very possible. Why? 1. NWN won't let you get five henchmen. Yes, there's a way to do a sort of "henchman of henchman of henchman of henchman," but it's cumbersome and the four additional "henchmen" will not be controllable by the player. (Read: useless AI.) The best you'll get is when HoTU comes out, where Bioware promises two henchmen, i.e., a party of three not counting familiars/animal companions. 2. Copyright issue. I have a feeling someone will be very unhappy if a NWN module, based word-for-word on Baldur's Gate series, is released for free download. Hair's being split a touch too fine, here. 3. Bhaalspawn powers. Could be done, but awkwardly; I think there's someone, somewhere, who's achieved giving players sub-racial specific abilities (like casting darkness). Could be done easily with an item with "unique power" properties, but would be tacky as hell. And what about the Slayer shift? (What, shapechange Balor? Uh... New model?) 4. Big, big project. Redundant, too, as most people've already played BG series.
Zanan 09-25-03, 03:37 AM	RE: Windows vs DOS. There is of course one other problem. Most modern PCs are much (if not to say lightyears) faster than the old 286/386/486 processors and as some of the games need to be played with the keyboard (as in: "to turn left, hit the appropriate key"), you could end up rotating your group around instead of changing the direction step by step. Apart from that, movement (your own and that of the monsters) can become awefully quick as well. So make sure you can slugg the PC down somehow. Menzoberranzan also needs quite some base memory, thus you have to shut down most of the Window system to get it to work. Best way out of this: get yourself a decent and cheap and old 486 PC and use it for some fun-weekends.
Darkmistress 09-25-03, 04:21 AM	*blinks* You can get a 486 outside the museums? ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-25-03, 01:42 PM	Originally posted by Alrunic Silverfyre It is called the Forgotten Realms Archives Silver Edition. It contained a lot of the old gold edition games. Here is an Ebay listing for it (no, I am not the seller.. hehe).. Ebay Listing for FR Achives (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048993167&category=11050) I have a copy as well...if you really care to purchase it, go ahead and PM me. I am sure I can work something out for ya as I rarely have time to play PC games nowadays. Wow, thanks for the information! :) I might be willing to buy from you to--I'll have to think this over. Goblin Warrior--How long ago did you get the collection at Wal-Mart? I'd say you were lucky--I looked at my local Wal-Mart and couldn't find it (checked Circuit City as well--they didn't have it either). PS: My PC has WinME, so I don't think I would have a problem.
bonedragon2 09-25-03, 11:21 PM	i have pool of radiance and god it hard and takes a long time i think the dice are fixed hehe:mad:
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-25-03, 11:38 PM	No problem. Just let me know and I'll dust it off for ya. Me shouldn't be that much of a problem but remember this: Boot disk. You might need one to get the game going. It is a little tricky to get the DOS prompt configured right on Windows Maximum Errors...I mean ME.