| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Uzzy03-02-08, 08:24 AM | According to ENWorld (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=4079624), Scott Rouse mentioned that both the Forgotten Realms and Eberron have garnered quite a response from the Hollywood crowd when they pitched the settings to them. In another interview with Scott Rouse this morning, we got to talking about the state of D&D in the public eye. The Rouse let slip that he's been talking to various Hollywood insiders about the potential development of a D&D movie or television series. Both Forgotten Realms and Eberron seem to have garnered the biggest response from the Hollywood crowd. Rouse himself seems to be leaning towards a movie based off of R.A. Salvatore's character Drizzt, most likely focusing around the events of the popular book, "The Crystal Shard." It's important to note that nothing is definite. It is certain, however, that Wizards of the Coast has at least approached director James Mangold (3:10 to Yuma, Girl Interrupted) with several pitches. |
| Fabius Maximus03-02-08, 01:23 PM | I hope they take an Eberron story... |
| selunatic239703-02-08, 06:32 PM | I would offer up a burnt offering [a barbequed goat specifically] to ensure that Eberron would be chosen! :) Drizzt on the big screen just seems WRONG to my gut instincts. :yuck: There would be no way to keep all the fans happy with the scripting or acting. |
| Dark Wizard03-02-08, 07:24 PM | I'm going to say I hope Eberron gets the pick as well. Drizzt on screen is going to seem weird. Any other story set in FR can too easily be made into a second rate LotR clone. If that is unsuccessful, it will hurt the D&D brand, the FR brand, the WotC brand, and whatever Hollywood types are involved. It will be like to FR what the D&D movie was to the notion of D&D movies. No film industry person will seriously touch FR and D&D material (including Eberron) for a long, long time. Eberron seems like it would be easier for Hollywood to grasp as different from the usual fantasy trends set by LotR. It's something that hasn't really been done much before on film. The ECS even lists a few movies that the setting draws inspiration from at the beginning of the book. I think that helps the film production people better understand Eberron in a medium they are familiar with. Though really, I would be surprised if either property gets any real first rate film treatment. Both Halo and Warcraft were pitched and considered for major blockbuster, tent-pole films. Neither made it thus far. |
| Bullet0632003-02-08, 10:55 PM | Christopher LLyod as Elminster if they do a FR movie |
| Ranger REG03-03-08, 01:42 AM | *checks to see if this is a FR forums, then responds...* I hope they take an Eberron story... I hope not. :P |
| Ranger REG03-03-08, 01:44 AM | Christopher LLyod as Elminster if they do a FR movie :uh-huh: You watched too many Back to the Future films too many times. |
| Lord Karsus03-03-08, 02:59 AM | -Ladies and gentlemen, let me direct you to the Official Forgotten Realms Movie Thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=755086), which is going to be directed by our very own Gothic Dan, starring, as last I checked, a whole bunch of very beautiful women and yours truly, starring in the role of Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2. |
| Fabius Maximus03-03-08, 08:05 AM | *checks to see if this is a FR forums, then responds...* I hope not. :P Well, if a Salvatore story is in the mix, everything is better than that. |
| Ranger REG03-03-08, 08:03 PM | Well, if a Salvatore story is in the mix, everything is better than that. The only Salvatore stories I know of are from FR. If he wrote for Eberron, I wouldn't know nor care since I have zero interest in that setting. I'm perfectly happy with FR. |
| MarkusTay6303-03-08, 10:38 PM | He can easily write in Eberron... afterall, its not like he bothers to learn the lore. :P An I say R. Kelly for Elminster - he's got the personality quirks down already. ;) |
| Dark Wizard03-03-08, 10:47 PM | The Midnight setting has a movie in the works. http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/midnight/trailersnav.html |
| MarkusTay6303-03-08, 11:02 PM | Great Setting. I've never played in it, but I have the book, and it looks like it would be fun. Of course, with 4e FR, I may just get my wish. :( |
| Brewhammer03-04-08, 12:53 AM | No interest at all in seeing an Eberron movie... I'd see an FR movie in a nanosecond, so long as it it's pre-4E FR. |
| Fabius Maximus03-04-08, 07:32 AM | The only Salvatore stories I know of are from FR. If he wrote for Eberron, I wouldn't know nor care since I have zero interest in that setting. I'm perfectly happy with FR. That's why I want an Eberron movie. No Salvatore. |
| Jiggawha03-04-08, 08:30 AM | tv series would be much better than a movie not possible either anyway |
| Green Elven Vampire03-04-08, 08:37 AM | They'd be better off with a CGI version of a FR movie... kinda like the CGI for the movie Beowulf. No human has a angular enough face to play Drizzt, let alone any FR elf. Did you see the elves in LoTr??? It made me want to send hate mail to Peter Jackson!! They looked like humans with slightly pointed ears. As a matter of fact the whole LoTr trilogy was a gross rendition of the classic story. No Tom Bombadil or Goldberry, no Barrow Wights... There were never any elves at the battle of Helms Deep! That film trilogy was ghastly!!!! Just my 2 Zhents! |
| carnasus03-04-08, 02:00 PM | I would love to see a movie, If it was done well it could generate more interest in this hobby nof ours. The discussion I think mentioned The Crystal Shard as a possible choice it did also say a movie or TV show. It has been talked about before and went no further as far as I remember. If I was WotC I would go for an animated show aimed at younger kids maybe 8-12 year olds, no kids from Earth sucked into a D&D world, but actual heroes from that world, maybe even release a, (Now don't laugh) junior D&D edition to interest kids into playing the game before moving onto the main game. not saying I would enjoy it the same as a movie, but I think it would better serve the hobby by bringing in more potential players. |
| Ranger REG03-05-08, 03:12 AM | -Ladies and gentlemen, let me direct you to the Official Forgotten Realms Movie Thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=755086), which is going to be directed by our very own Gothic Dan, starring, as last I checked, a whole bunch of very beautiful women and yours truly, starring in the role of Cormyrian Farmer with Pitchfork #2. Is that FR version of Starfleet Redshirt? :devil: |
| Ranger REG03-05-08, 03:16 AM | They'd be better off with a CGI version of a FR movie... kinda like the CGI for the movie Beowulf. No human has a angular enough face to play Drizzt, let alone any FR elf. Did you see the elves in LoTr??? It made me want to send hate mail to Peter Jackson!! They looked like humans with slightly pointed ears. And yet it did well in the box office. So well, that two suits decided to be greedy and ultimately killed New Line. Sorry, not even you can diminish the movie's success. |
| Lord Karsus03-05-08, 03:41 AM | Is that FR version of Starfleet Redshirt? :devil: -If by Starfleet Redshirts, you mean the guy who single-handedly beds all of the aforementioned beautiful women, then yes. ;) |
| Bullet0632003-06-08, 05:01 AM | :uh-huh: You watched too many Back to the Future films too many times. True enough, but I think Christopher Lloyd could pull it off |
| 1 ton ghost03-06-08, 02:42 PM | possible? unlikely given the abyssmal failure of anything w/ "Dungeon" in the namesake. their penchant for getting hack actors, poor screen writers, and ultimately bungling a fairly simple genre speaks volumes. w/ the advent of LoTR, they have some big shoes to fill which makes alot of ppl very nervous. like all film, it's gonna' take money and that comes from investors and given the spectacular failure of D&D film media, that's gonna' scare off alot of investors...they want to see a return on their $ as it were. and that's not likely to happen. movie is just like starting a company. or alot like programming too, garbage in, garbage out. you throw most of your budget into CGI and skimp on the casting, sets, and extras (a new american standard), you're gonna' see it. that's why we're seeing more Saws and Transformers, etc. totally lacking in substance, style, or form cuz' the FX are what they think ppl want to see. sad really. throw enough explosions and vampires at most stupid theatre patrons and they'll be happy cuz' they don't have to think. most americans just want generic "pop corn movies" as entertainment, not think pieces. i mean Hell, look at the Oscar nominations for Best Picture, some damn good pieces there too this year despite the WAG strike. now, look how much they grossed compared to all the big "home box office successes" (read, biggest profits). "No Country for Old Men" (never seen a bad Coen bros movie actually) is undisputedly a better film than "Transformers" (never seen a good Michael Bay film either), but the later got alot of cash, and for what? some 'B' and 'C' listers on a green screen w/ a poorly written screen play and hammy plot. i'd love to see Icewindale or The Drow Trilogy, but unless it was purely animated it would be direct to video given all the FX nightmares. CGI, though getting cheaper, isn't cheap. and after "Return of the King" got 7 Oscars (no one has gotten 8 ever), well, that's a tough act to follow... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-06-08, 07:09 PM | I love a good popcorn flick.:) I loved No Country for Old Men, too, but I wouldn't want all movies to be so "heavy". |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-06-08, 07:11 PM | and after "Return of the King" got 7 Oscars (no one has gotten 8 ever), well, that's a tough act to follow... Actually, RotK got 11 Oscars...and is tied with Ben-Hur and Titanic. |
| Fabius Maximus03-07-08, 09:50 AM | I love a good popcorn flick.:) I loved No Country for Old Men, too, but I wouldn't want all movies to be so "heavy". There are good popcorn-movies and bad popcorn-movies. Michael Bay usually makes bad ones. He's no Uwe Boll, but he comes close. If they take a decent director - no Boll, no Bay, no Snyder, no Paul W.S. Anderson - , another D&D movie might be watchable without cringing for once. |
| Lord Karsus03-07-08, 09:56 AM | Michael Bay usually makes bad ones. He's no Uwe Boll, but he comes close. -But...But...But...He's awesome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHsxQJ9ZOo)! |
| 1 ton ghost03-07-08, 12:57 PM | um, cute commercial, but that says it all, you know? when was the last time you saw credible directors plugging anything except Amex? Bay, awesome? he is kinda' regarded as a Hollywood footnote. big action, big monolithic concepts...little substance. never really recovered his director integrity after butchering "Pearl Harbor" which should've been easy. war epics write themselves, and if done tastefully, are usually a safe bet. having interjected some hackneyed love story around an american iconic moment, that just certified his incompetance as a director. Kubrick, Hitchcock, Spielberg, Kurosawa, Copolla, etc...these are good director's. made men, paid their dues. Bay is a long way from this list though sadly, i could see WotC considering him for another D&D film given his credits. ...but, entertainment is like religion i feel, a personal XP. spend your cash where you will but try and exercise some critical thinking between commercials and trailers cuz' we're being inundated w/ a flood of sh-t these days. alot of movies are designed just to make money, that's it. sadly, these are the ones that get the most hype. i mean, you know it's sad when you see mammoth advertising for "Step Up 2" or whatever vapid teen knockoff they're pushing this week and not a single ad for "There Will Be Blood". and who got the Oscar nods and so forth? Rinonalyrna Fathomlin mentioned 11, not 7. if that's the case i stand corrected, i just remember RotK tying w/ "Gone w/ the Wind". no one saw that coming, but a proud day for fantasy enthusiasts and gamers anyway. i refused to acknowledge "Titanic"...well, i mean, c'mon. sometimes a "pop corn" movie is ok. sometimes you just want to decompress after a bad work day, keep the kids busy, whatever. fine. "Star Wars" fits that mold nicely. increasingly poor acting (usually due to script, not necessarilly actors), progressively worse plots towards the newer films, but the FX are bar none. a nice visual distraction, no more, no less. i mean, you can tell they're not marketing it to cerebral audiences. family market is where the $ is...i mean, look at Jar Jar Binks. wtf, right. that's for the kids and i suppose in '83, ewoks fill that roll too. different time and mindset though. George has lost his way, but our wallets are still valid... sometimes you just want to be entertained and that's cool, but it seems to be more and more prolific in that asking an american audience to ponder, read subtitles, or don't believe the hype is becoming futile. still, overall, we (america) make the best movies on the planet so i guess that's something. with all this in mind though, i'm just really worried that a FR movie would get hacked to death. you all see the Dragonlance animated one recently? catch that abortion of the the D&D movie w/ the dragons, etc? if they could find producers willing to take a risk, credible writers, a staff that will take direction and notes from Greenwood types, and faithful Jackson-esque Faerunians, we could have something, but that's a big "if".... |
| Lord Karsus03-07-08, 01:10 PM | -I posted in jest, if you did not catch that. ;) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-07-08, 01:51 PM | -But...But...But...He's awesome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHsxQJ9ZOo)! How did I know you were going to link to THAT commercial? :rofl: |
| 1 ton ghost03-07-08, 02:47 PM | -I posted in jest lot of that going on... (cruise the Gygax memoriam boards):nonono: anyway, the jest, i thought you made it fairly obvious yourself. failing that, the commercial tidied up anything left unsaid i suppose. some like Bay, and i'd probably be there too, but after 4 years of Fine Art, you learn otherwise. like most intelligent movie buffs and my professor said, "he sucks." like doctors in the medical field, politicians in D.C., etc., just a product of my environment i guess. related: i'm sure there are quite a few English grads that despise Salvatore and w/ good reason. still, i guess i enjoyed alot (not all) of the Drizzt texts in that "pop corn" movie capacity if that's not too cliche'. not exactly War and Peace, but entertaining nonetheless. everything in moderation i guess. i mean Hell, alot of the fun of gaming and pop-culture in general is the smoking and joking. on a related note, you guys might want to search for the "PHB PSAs" on youtube or "fear of girls 1 and 2". bit of levity on an otherwise sh-t day. |
| Ranger REG03-08-08, 01:53 AM | That's why I want an Eberron movie. And that would make me want to watch it because...? :uh-huh: |
| Lord Karsus03-08-08, 02:00 AM | How did I know you were going to link to THAT commercial? :rofl: -Feng Shui? And that would make me want to watch it because...? :uh-huh: -Then don't go see the theoretical movie, what do you want me to tell you. |
| Ranger REG03-08-08, 02:03 AM | -If by Starfleet Redshirts, you mean the guy who single-handedly beds all of the aforementioned beautiful women, then yes. ;) I meant TOS Redshirts. Not Riker's Redshirts. |
| Lord Karsus03-08-08, 02:32 AM | I meant TOS Redshirts. Not Riker's Redshirts. -The second one is the working definition, as of now. |
| Fabius Maximus03-08-08, 09:52 AM | And that would make me want to watch it because...? :uh-huh: I don't care if you wnat to watch it. I only care that I wouldn't want to watch a movie written after a story by Salvatore. Or Greenwood. Or Wyatt. There are good and bad D&D books. I'd rather they took one written by a good author than one written by a bad one. That said, I hope they don't take an already published book at all, if they really make a movie. |
| Ranger REG03-08-08, 08:10 PM | -The second one is the working definition, as of now. Working, but not succeeding. :evillaugh |
| Ranger REG03-08-08, 08:12 PM | I don't care if you wnat to watch it. I only care that I wouldn't want to watch a movie written after a story by Salvatore. Or Greenwood. Or Wyatt. Are you even in the right forum, much less in the right thread? :uh-huh: That's why I don't go to the Eberron forum and discuss FR films. |
| Zsych03-08-08, 08:43 PM | Personally I'd suggest going with anime rather than movies. Anime are ridiculously cheap to make, and you could easily afford to create several different series, which would be in the same setting and occasionally overlapping. Heck if you had 3-4 series running simultaneously, you could even focus a series on evil characters and their goals. Start with a bunch of low level characters (3-4 level) and their long paths to becoming epic ones(20-25 level)... although I wouldn't have these characters reach the level of the truely iconic characters of FR, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be great near the end, or still have more challenges ahead. |
| Dark Wizard03-09-08, 12:51 AM | Apparently animation isn't that cheap, otherwise they would have made a decently animated movie (both 2D & CG) for Dragonlance on the budget they had. |
| 1 ton ghost03-09-08, 04:10 AM | Apparently animation isn't that cheap, otherwise they would have made a decently animated movie (both 2D & CG) for Dragonlance on the budget they had. heh. too true. you said it, not me... that cut rate Korean outfit they employed butchered what was once a kick ass flagship to TSR's empire. how the might have fallen. as was said previously, an animated FR tale is probably the conservative way to go realistically. CGI magic is a Hell of alot more expensive than penciling in a house raid in Menzoberranzan. i mean, just think about a simple panoramic shot of the cityscape; all that fairie fire, bizarre highlights, crazy ambient sounds subterranean style...a formidable, and pricey take. animated, the potential for true greatness like LotR (live-action) is diminished, but so is the poetental for disaster like the other dime a dozen fantasy films. usually, it's the bottom line that decides the "how" sadly. but you gotta' respect Jackson for taking such a titan gamble and filming all 3 at once. of course, look at how New Line tried to screw him of his just due... |
| Lord Karsus03-09-08, 08:18 AM | Working, but not succeeding. :evillaugh -Oh, no. It succeeds often enough. Trust me on that one. Are you even in the right forum, much less in the right thread? :uh-huh: That's why I don't go to the Eberron forum and discuss FR films. -I'll translate it for you: He doesn't want to see a Forgotten Realms movie based on a previously established story, as it will be more negative for the setting than positive for the setting. A movie based on the Icewind Dale trilogy will create more Drizzt fanboys, and Drizzt clones, and will reinforce the negative association of the Forgotten Realms and Drizzt, thus hurting, not helping. |
| Fabius Maximus03-09-08, 09:56 AM | -I'll translate it for you: He doesn't want to see a Forgotten Realms movie based on a previously established story, as it will be more negative for the setting than positive for the setting. A movie based on the Icewind Dale trilogy will create more Drizzt fanboys, and Drizzt clones, and will reinforce the negative association of the Forgotten Realms and Drizzt, thus hurting, not helping. That's very much the gist of it, although I essentially said they shouldn't take stories written by bad authors. Also, we're talking about another D&D movie here, not necessarily a FR one. |
| Dark Wizard03-09-08, 05:21 PM | heh. too true. you said it, not me... that cut rate Korean outfit they employed butchered what was once a kick ass flagship to TSR's empire. how the might have fallen. as was said previously, an animated FR tale is probably the conservative way to go realistically. CGI magic is a Hell of alot more expensive than penciling in a house raid in Menzoberranzan. i mean, just think about a simple panoramic shot of the cityscape; all that fairie fire, bizarre highlights, crazy ambient sounds subterranean style...a formidable, and pricey take. Actually I think the main animation firm they hired was a relatively new company from India. Not that I'm purposely bashing them, I'm sure they're a competent bunch, but the scale of Dragonlance is not easy to do for a new company. It takes more than raw talent, it takes experience. I think the Dragonlance movie people bit off more than they could chew. They had a limited budget but tried to fit the start of something epic within that. I know it's a vicious cycle, without the Dragonlance property they probably would have never gotten any funding, but by using the Dragonlance franchise, they sort of locked themselves into doing something large scale. Most 2D animation uses computers nowadays, even for the 2D work. Additional lighting and special effects are also computer generated. What it takes is a director and art design department that realizes you can't just slap the two methods together but rather you must blend them. animated, the potential for true greatness like LotR (live-action) is diminished, but so is the poetental for disaster like the other dime a dozen fantasy films. usually, it's the bottom line that decides the "how" sadly. but you gotta' respect Jackson for taking such a titan gamble and filming all 3 at once. of course, look at how New Line tried to screw him of his just due... Even that is changing somewhat, several major movies have side-stories released as animated shorts, such as the Animatrix, the animated short for Chronicles of Riddick and the upcoming Batmanime. Coupled with decades of very well done Disney movies and recent distinctly animated Saturday morning cartoons and imported anime, the modern audience is increasingly spoiled on animation as much as they are spoiled on big budget special effects extravaganzas. |
| 1 ton ghost03-09-08, 10:56 PM | hmm, food for thought. well said. |
| Zsych03-09-08, 11:01 PM | Ignoring CG. Just regular anime, like Naruto for example. They are very cheap. They're cheap because they have few keyframes which in fact aren't always drawn very well, and other than that its just characters' lips moving for the most part. There is just a huge amount of reuse. Thats why cartoons cost much more to produce(although they cost less than a movie does). Yes, if you go the anime path, it won't have the most spectacularly advanced look possible, but really if the story is good, it overcomes the other flaws. |
| Dark Wizard03-09-08, 11:47 PM | I think I'm not getting my point across clearly enough. Yes, all anime (and even lots of non-Japanese animation) makes strategic use of still frames or barely animated sequences, especially for dialogue scenes since then words take over the momentum of the story. That still doesn't make producing an anime cheap, just cheaper. If you've seen the Dragonlance movie, there are very noticeable scenes where the shot focuses on one character's eyes and they speak several lines of dialogue. This was very obviously a cost saving measure. The animation for these scenes was horrible, they looked like something out of an amateur flash animation and had the scratchy, shifty look of animated shows like The Critic or Home Movies. These 'still' scenes actually have to be detailed for their time to hold up to repeated use. When they aren't, their overuse becomes apparent. That is one of the main complaints about anime, that at times they appear as a slide show synced to a recorded script. Anime shows are still canceled in Japan if they don't do well precisely because animation still costs a lot, even when recycling scenes. More recently, many shows make far less use of these stock images/low animation scenes than in shows from previous years. So again, standards are rising, competition is increasing and costs are still there. These techniques can work for a TV show, but rarely hold up as well in a movie. |
| Zsych03-10-08, 01:30 AM | I read an interview from the guy that created Eureka 7, and converting yen to dollars, the animation(minus sound and anything else) amounted to less than $1K per episode... and looking at the crap animation I've usually seen in Naruto at least, I have no trouble believing it. Cheap and not particularly talented artists, doing most of those still frames could not possibly make decent money. The guy was actually saying that there is a lot of money in the industry, but it doesn't actually trickle down to the little guy(also including the writers at times :P). Big companies no doubt will stop a production if its not getting them the profit that they expect. That has little to do with the cost of animation, it just means that they want millions and aren't satisfied with a small return on investment(no idea how much hiring time on tv would cost though... so low ratings are sufficient reason to get rid of something) Its time everything was put on the net instead of buying tv time :P |
| Dark Wizard03-10-08, 02:07 AM | Don't know, those numbers seem a bit low. I looked around a bit and found this article: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GB01Dh01.html It gives roughly 10 million to 16 million yen (20 million yen as the standard price for an anime episode under a new Warner Bros production contract which is 20-50% higher than a regular episode) as the cost of a typical episode of an anime. If I'm doing my conversions correctly, that's roughly $100-160 thousand USD. You can't just minus the sound and everything else, that's the whole point of producing cost. You subtract that total cost from your net gross to find your profit. The production cost is only part of it, you have to have something of an advertising budget. In any creative endeavor, obscurity is your greatest obstacle. A few more figures, Afro Samurai costs roughly $1 million an episode because it was an operation involving two countries overseas from each other and a few big name voices. I've heard an episode of Nickelodeon shows costs somewhere in the range of hundreds of thousands of dollars. I guess that's cheap by live action standards. An episode of a regular TV show ranges as low as $1+ million (rare) to several million, higher the longer the show is on the air and even higher if it has some noteworthy cast. About 2 million is a good average for each half hour. Still one to two hundred dollars is not chum change, especially if you plan on a movie, which multiplies the cost not just by the length, but also your production values must be higher (unless you're looking to throw out made-for-DVD bargain bin stuff like the Dragonlance movie.) |
| Zsych03-10-08, 02:13 AM | I think that FR or DragonLance are large worlds, and to even capture the flavor decently, an hour and a half just isn't enough. Their coolness is in all of the detail. Detail that can't be explored in a couple of hours. I'd like to see a much deeper, more complex version of the old D&D cartoons for example. Something where the average story arc was expected to run 20 eps, once it got somewhat high level. |
| Dark Wizard03-10-08, 02:22 AM | I would also like to see an FR based animated show with the production values and story weight of shows like Avatar. |
| Zsych03-10-08, 03:55 AM | I think the story situation is actually pretty bad in Avatar. The characters don't really grow in power, they don't grow much as people, and most of the episodes are largely independent. This is where I think many anime do it much better in that one specfic story arc continues over several episodes, as opposed to having them all independent and vaguely tied together by some background story that usually isn't relevant to most of the episodes. In Avatar, the party isn't working intelligently towards any goal. ... and the sheer childishness annoys me. Like Sokka whining about how all he wanted was the pain in his feet from walking to go away, a day after his father and a bunch of his friends were captured by the fire nation. I don't really favor the whole world's future standing on one person's shoulders, but if it does, for that person to be the kind who would rather go joy riding when people are suffering... thats just plain disgusting. Complete mockery of the concept of a respectable person worthy of being a hero(I'm shocked at what they show kids these days. What happened to characters like G1 Optimus Prime? or even Lion-O from the Thunder Cats... Leonardo from the Ninja Turtles... :P) I want intelligent (and flashy) stories, told in a way that the story and characters have a decent chance to develop, and where the characters actually do learn, adapt and grow from experience. (impossible in a movie, but in a series.. potentially amazing) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-10-08, 03:31 PM | I don't care if you wnat to watch it. I only care that I wouldn't want to watch a movie written after a story by Salvatore. Or Greenwood. Or Wyatt. Even though Wyatt writes for Eberron?:confused: |
| Dark Wizard03-10-08, 10:00 PM | I think the story situation is actually pretty bad in Avatar. Where are you up to in the series? Later in season one and onwards through season 2 and especially 3, the series is anything but what you point out is wrong with it. |
| Lord Karsus03-10-08, 11:20 PM | Even though Wyatt writes for Eberron?:confused: -Maybe it's his writing style? Never read anything by him, so... |
| Drizztrocks03-10-08, 11:43 PM | Hey, I think the Drizzt books woiuld do great in movie format. As long as Steven Speilburg, Peterjackson and George Lucas work together to do it, and it is made with as much high quality CGI animation as Beofulf {which I loved except for the weird part when his son was a dragon...or a golden man?:P }. I think it really would. No really, they would work wonderful, as long as its high quality. With so many Drizzt books, it might work better as a top budget TV series with 1hr episodes. Or a six part saga, like Star Wars, with the first three Icewind dale books in the beginning, and then what do you know, a flashback of the Dark Elf Trilogy. HERES FOR A HIGHBUDGET DRIZZT MOVIE!!!!!!!!:D |
| Drizztrocks03-10-08, 11:47 PM | I think the story situation is actually pretty bad in Avatar. The characters don't really grow in power, they don't grow much as people, and most of the episodes are largely independent. This is where I think many anime do it much better in that one specfic story arc continues over several episodes, as opposed to having them all independent and vaguely tied together by some background story that usually isn't relevant to most of the episodes. In Avatar, the party isn't working intelligently towards any goal. ... and the sheer childishness annoys me. Like Sokka whining about how all he wanted was the pain in his feet from walking to go away, a day after his father and a bunch of his friends were captured by the fire nation. I don't really favor the whole world's future standing on one person's shoulders, but if it does, for that person to be the kind who would rather go joy riding when people are suffering... thats just plain disgusting. Complete mockery of the concept of a respectable person worthy of being a hero(I'm shocked at what they show kids these days. What happened to characters like G1 Optimus Prime? or even Lion-O from the Thunder Cats... Leonardo from the Ninja Turtles... :P) I want intelligent (and flashy) stories, told in a way that the story and characters have a decent chance to develop, and where the characters actually do learn, adapt and grow from experience. (impossible in a movie, but in a series.. potentially amazing) Like so many things {the pathetic Movies Dragon Wars, Spiderwick Chronicles, Open water, ect.}, there is a good plot and good main idea, but is taken the wrong way and turns out crappy and pathetic. I hate the series. except for the firery prince dude. He reminds me of Entreri. |
| The_Shaman03-11-08, 12:10 AM | I think we've had enough of Drizzt for now. I'd rather there was a completely different story, possibly of a less-known region. A traveling group can always be good for a large series, so it can showcase different regions - from Silverymoon to Dambrath to Mulhorand to Deep Imaskar. One heck of a journey that would be, don't you think? |
| Zsych03-11-08, 02:28 AM | I think whatever sells more stuff(be it Drizzt), and lets wizards expand their products and thus produce at least some more interesting stuff is a good thing. @Dark Wizard: That idiot comment from Sokka is only a couple of episodes old. The main characters are basically dumb and lacking in foresight(and adults listening to them just makes it worse), and I think that they're basically the same characters that they've always been minus very minor occasional variations(although Sokka is probably the one who has most changed... in terms of gaining some skill and actually becoming somewhat valuable to the group) |
| Ranger REG03-11-08, 03:17 AM | Hey, I think the Drizzt books woiuld do great in movie format. As long as Steven Speilburg, Peterjackson and George Lucas work together to do it, and it is made with as much high quality CGI animation as Beofulf {which I loved except for the weird part when his son was a dragon...or a golden man?:P }. I noticed you mean to say Beowulf (the recent CG-animated version) but neglected to mention Robert Zmeckis alongside the other three notaries. Having said that, I can see them collaborate as executive producers but who will call the shots (as in named director)? |
| Fabius Maximus03-11-08, 09:40 AM | Even though Wyatt writes for Eberron?:confused: That he does. He should stick to writing sourcebooks. Novels are just not his thing. Although that could be said from Bruce R. Cordell, too. 'Lady of Poison' is a mess, 'Stardeep' isn't that much better, but 'Darkvision' is very good. (I'm pretty sure he wrote the books in this order.) Anyway, I encluded him in the list of bad authors because of fairness. I could've named Matt Forbeck, too. Each setting has it's good and bad novels, and the chance of taking a bad one is as great as taking a good one for a movie. And considering the popularity of Salvatore's books... |
| Lord Karsus03-11-08, 10:43 AM | Although that could be said from Bruce R. Cordell, too. 'Lady of Poison' is a mess, 'Stardeep' isn't that much better, but 'Darkvision' is very good. (I'm pretty sure he wrote the books in this order.) -It was Lady of Poison, Darkvision, Stardeep. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-11-08, 12:37 PM | That he does. He should stick to writing sourcebooks. Novels are just not his thing. Ah, that explains it.:) Although that could be said from Bruce R. Cordell, too. 'Lady of Poison' is a mess, 'Stardeep' isn't that much better, but 'Darkvision' is very good. (I'm pretty sure he wrote the books in this order.) Actually, it's Lady of Poison, then Darkvision, then Stardeep. I have mixed feelings about his work, myself. I tend to find it too "sci/fi-ish" for the Realms. |
| Dark Wizard03-11-08, 10:44 PM | Drizzt and company would actually make a very decent anime. If his popularity continues, it's bound to happen. He will likely be the first FR character to make it beyond text and still pictures into animation and sound (not counting video games, but I'll bet he pioneers there too). Regarding Avatar. I think the characters grew a lot over the three seasons of the show. Sakka you discussed. Aang is starting to really feel the weight of his position in the world. He is still struggling to deal with his regular, carefree, fun-loving self and his avatar status, his growing feelings for Katara and how to reconcile that with what the guru told him about having to let go of everything to gain control of his avatar state. He learned to approach things in moderation, especially after his failed attempt to learn firebending. Thinking he could handle it, because he was the avatar, he instead hurt someone he cared about. Katara went from a somewhat passive character to an assertive one, she became a waterbending master despite having no support in that regard. Her morals were recently put to the test with the temptation to waterbend blood. For a time she had to deal with feeling overshadowed by Aang's natural talents with the elements. Uncle Iroh climbed out of a sort of depression (obscured by his boisterous persona) after his son's death. He treated Zuko as his surrogate son, in place of the father he never really had (since Ozai is a ice cold tyrant). Zuko realizes that it's not necessary for him to gain the approval of his father and in fact his uncle is more of a father to him. He's had to fall to realize that, he is making sure the apple falls far from the tree by his own doing. He had to make mistakes to do so, all of them had to. Much of the joyriding and stupid stuff they do does come back to bit them. The only characters who never really had development are Toph, understandable since she's a relatively recent addition to the show. Another is Azula, but for now they're writing her with an irredeemable quality to boost up her villain factor. As for the dumb comments, life goes on. You will be surprised at the really stupid things people say inspite of the reality and atmosphere around them. Look no further than some recent threads. When you current situations sucks, you will complain about it, you might not notice it, but you do, it helps keep you sane. Even if there are heavier matters before you, you need to get through the current situation first. For the characters irreverence, I find Avatar treats their characters far more seriously than most anime. The same personality of Aang's has been done in characters like Goku and Luffie of Dragonball and One Piece fame. Of the three, Aang is by far the most tone down. From what I've seen of Naruto, he's well into that punk kid archetype, and Aang is a saint compared to him. For this supposed necessity for flawlessness in characters, all I have to ask is where does this come from? Where was foresight when Pandora opened the box? (Technically foresight was bound to a rock with chains while vultures pecked out his organs.) When Odysseus revealed his name to the cyclops and incurred the wrath of Poseidon? When Lancelot and Guenivere had their affair? When Hoder threw the mistletoe dart at the supposedly invincible Baldar? Anime characters are far from perfect, at least the good ones anyway. See Kira's (of Gundam SEED) reaction after he blew up that civilian transport in the heat of battle. Or the guys from Full Metal Alchemist go all melancholy after trying to raise their mother from the dead. (Again, forsight?) I'm actually interested in what you consider a well written show for an audience that is essentially in the 'tween' demographic. I would like to check it out. Edit: Now that I think about it, the comment you're referring to was a snarky one from Sakka, which is very in line with the character, especially given the circumstances. When under pressure and despair, it is not an out of place comment. [I had a co-worker who just quit who did that to an extreme. When ever anything bothered her (which is to say most things) she would throw snarky comments (almost borderline insults in her case) at anyone and everyone including co-workers, managers and even patients. Everyone is happy she left. Sakka's comment doesn't even come close.] In the same episode, Aang did not focus on finding a firebending teacher (and appeared to be avoiding things, which is again how many real normal people behave) because of his very real fear of firebending and getting it wrong, hurting people in the process (he's done that before). This was repeated several times in that episode (in particular the closer) and was the theme again in the next episode. |
| Fabius Maximus03-12-08, 10:07 AM | -It was Lady of Poison, Darkvision, Stardeep. That's the order the books were published. But I highly doubt he wrote them in that order. Darkvision is just much more refined in style than the other two, and Stardeep misses a few things from Darkvision such as Kiril's second sword she gets from the sand elves. |
| Lord Karsus03-12-08, 10:32 AM | That's the order the books were published. But I highly doubt he wrote them in that order. Darkvision is just much more refined in style than the other two, and Stardeep misses a few things from Darkvision such as Kiril's second sword she gets from the sand elves. -Oh, that's what you mean. Well, while only he knows for sure, there is plenty of time between Darkvision and Stardeep, and coupled with Kyril's alcoholic tendencies, and the types of people she was associating with, I don't think it would be too big of a a suspension of disbelief to assume she 'lost' said blade. She retained the Crystal Dragonet, and the memories a bunch of other things that happened in Darkvision. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-12-08, 01:52 PM | That's the order the books were published. But I highly doubt he wrote them in that order. Darkvision is just much more refined in style than the other two, and Stardeep misses a few things from Darkvision such as Kiril's second sword she gets from the sand elves. LK's right, only the author knows for sure. Also, sometimes an author's work won't "improve" over time. As for the inconsistencies...well, maybe the author didn't keep detailed notes about the character stories? |
| MarkusTay6303-12-08, 03:27 PM | If you followed his thread over at CK, you'd know he finished Darkvision FIRST. However, that doesn't mean he didn't already have a rough draft of Stardeep written down, especially considering all the details mentioned in the Darkvision novel pertaining to the next one. There was obviously some sort of 'planning ahead' going on there. As much as I detest Far Realmsian stuff, I enjoyed that book. I haven't read Lady, but I intend to read Stardeep just as soon as I can find it in the store (they are always out of it). Besides, I don't read FR books so much for the stories, but rather, for the lore. It would surprise most folks to find out which author(s) I wouldn't bother reading, if the books weren't so gosh-darn Lore-heavy. ;) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-12-08, 08:36 PM | Besides, I don't read FR books so much for the stories, but rather, for the lore. It would surprise most folks to find out which author(s) I wouldn't bother reading, if the books weren't so gosh-darn Lore-heavy. ;) Oh yeah? Try me!:) |
| Lord Karsus03-12-08, 11:15 PM | Oh yeah? Try me!:) -The usual suspects. |
| Fabius Maximus03-13-08, 08:56 AM | If you followed his thread over at CK, you'd know he finished Darkvision FIRST. However, that doesn't mean he didn't already have a rough draft of Stardeep written down, especially considering all the details mentioned in the Darkvision novel pertaining to the next one. There was obviously some sort of 'planning ahead' going on there. Then I wonder why Stardeep more resembles Lady of Poison than Darvision in style. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-13-08, 10:49 AM | -The usual suspects. Ed Greenwood? Elaine Cunningham? Salvatore? It's hard for me to guess.:) I know Cunningham's work isn't as, well, controversial as that of the other two I mentioned, but Markus *did* say his preferences would surprise people. |
| Lord Karsus03-13-08, 11:14 AM | Ed Greenwood? Elaine Cunningham? Salvatore? It's hard for me to guess.:) -I'm going to guess the first, and the second. Salvatore doesn't really inject his novels with a lot of lore (in the worldly sense), whereas Ed and Elaine do. I'd also add Steve Schend in there as well. He does the same thing. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin03-13-08, 03:26 PM | -I'm going to guess the first, and the second. Salvatore doesn't really inject his novels with a lot of lore (in the worldly sense), whereas Ed and Elaine do. I'd also add Steve Schend in there as well. He does the same thing. Yeah, that's a good guess. So Markus, are we right? |
| 1 ton ghost03-13-08, 05:15 PM | it's not like it would matter really. ideally it's who writes the screenplay adaptation and who directs. and w/ a theoretically rather limited number of producers for a D&D movie, it's not like they're gonna' wrangle up Spielberg any time soon. like the whole LotR arguement, whole lot of diehards were super pi$$ed "it didn't follow the book exactly". that's the funny part, it's not a book anymore, it's cinema and when you change media you gotta' seperate some chaff from the wheat. Salvatore, Cunningham, whoever, they'd get credits and maybe another paycheck as "artistic consultant" for the film, but realistically, there power woudl be marginalized given most producers predilections. |
| Lord Karsus03-13-08, 05:22 PM | like the whole LotR arguement, whole lot of diehards were super pi$$ed "it didn't follow the book exactly". that's the funny part, it's not a book anymore, it's cinema and when you change media you gotta' seperate some chaff from the wheat. -That's why I have no problems with the Spiderman movies, or the X-Men movies. Sure, they don't follow the comic continuity, but they aren't comics. These are movies, with a movie continuity only based on the comic continuity. |
| 1 ton ghost03-13-08, 06:55 PM | 1) what, if any, fantasy films, or film adaptations (from books) do you think set a good precedent for this sort of motif we're gunning for (a Faerun based movie)? 2) what films do you think were faithful to their original texts that might serve as a helpful model in this thread? i'd like to think this is possible, an FR movie, and though i am loathe to admit it, Drizzt would probably be the spearhead for that given the popularity and past marketing thereof. don't quote me on this, but i'd wager Darkelf or Icewindale outsold Time of Troubles and the other trilogies. not sure if it outsold the 1st Dragonlance trilogy...but, don't kill me here, look how well that worked out as an animated feature. i mean, they're in it to make some $ first, then tell a story. for what it's worth, the graphic novel series (Legend of Drizzt...) was pretty damn good and Devil's Due Press' stock is rising considerably. given it's adaptation into a graphic novel, not to mention Steven King's "Gunslinger" and a bunch of other work going in that direction, is this a good indication that it would, could make it in successful cinema? i mean, what's currently getting ready or in post production? they just released some film pics for "Watchmen", "Iron Man" will be out shortly, think they're gonna' make "The Dark Tower" (according to EW anyway), etc. anyone else know what's going on? |
| Ranger REG03-13-08, 09:07 PM | it's not like it would matter really. ideally it's who writes the screenplay adaptation and who directs. and w/ a theoretically rather limited number of producers for a D&D movie, it's not like they're gonna' wrangle up Spielberg any time soon. like the whole LotR arguement, whole lot of diehards were super pi$$ed "it didn't follow the book exactly". that's the funny part, it's not a book anymore, it's cinema and when you change media you gotta' seperate some chaff from the wheat. That and the book itself is not a screenplay. Even the late JRR Tolkien admit the book as it stand would be unfilmable. Too bad he passed away before he could write a cinema-friendly work. Let's face it. What good on paper doesn't necessarily translate well in live-action. Salvatore, Cunningham, whoever, they'd get credits and maybe another paycheck as "artistic consultant" for the film, but realistically, there power woudl be marginalized given most producers predilections. Unless they completed courses in screenwriting. Then they can adapt their literary works into screenplay. But then you'll need to undergo pre-viz and storyboarding, that is taking the screenplay and literally draw out the scenes, panel-by-panel. For each steps toward the actual final film product (production, script changes, post-production editing, reshoots, etc.), some things could get lost along the way. |
| Dark Wizard03-13-08, 11:21 PM | i mean, what's currently getting ready or in post production? they just released some film pics for "Watchmen", "Iron Man" will be out shortly, think they're gonna' make "The Dark Tower" (according to EW anyway), etc. anyone else know what's going on? Both George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire books and Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series are being adapted for TV mini-series I believe. However, it seems like those are mostly in the negotiation, planning stages. Warner Bros. has trouble getting Wonder Woman going despite having a successful TV series from the 70s and the iconic status of the character. Not to mention the Flash, who also had a TV show. Marvel has trouble getting the Hulk to stick, despite similar small screen success. Most of the adaptations of fantasy novels to movies have really flopped, especially given the amount of money tossed into them. They are only marginally better than video game-to-movie adaptations. |