Funeral Rites in FR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Funeral Rites in FR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bitter thorn
12-19-06, 12:25 AM Is there an general outline of how funerals and, more practically, the modes of dealing with corpses, some where? An article would be fine; I'm particularly interested in the Dales, Cormyr, and Sembia.

TIA!
Old Sage
12-19-06, 09:05 AM You'll find that many of the burial methods and corpse treatment methods that have been detailed in the Realmslore are often shaped by specific racial and religious views.

For example, you'll find a few brief funerary rites, as they relate to specific faiths, described in Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities.

Ed also dealt with the matter of burials and a few specific burial methods in his '04 replies at Candlekeep.
Old Sage
12-19-06, 09:07 AM Additionally, Ed, from July '05, has this to share:-

"July 14, 2005: Hello, fellow scribes. Ed of the Greenwood makes reply to two scribes in the matter of the daily disposal of the dead:

Borch and Asgetrion,

Things vary so much across the Realms that it’s difficult to give any valid overall answer to your questions. However, in general, burial matters in cities and large towns across Faerūn “work like this:”

Only noble or very wealthy or very old (long-established) families (or guilds) in an urban area have, and are allowed to keep, crypts within the city walls - - usually beneath the city proper. Everyone else must inter their dead (after allowing beasts to gnaw the bones clean, in some faiths, or after cremation in some faiths or in cases of disease, fungal growths, mummy rot, lycanthropy, suspected undeath, and so on) outside the city walls.

This is the case in Baldur’s Gate. Or to put it more correctly: aside from a few old, well-hidden old-family crypts in that city, the dead are disposed of in two ways: shipped out to an offshore isle for burning (a formerly-popular custom, now used only for sailors or shipowners), or far more often corpses are carted well inland, to a monastic community. Homeless and penniless folk make the journey in a common “dead cart” known as “the Vulture Run,” and most citizens have a simple walk-with-the-cart funeral.

In the case of Baldur’s Gate, the graveyard is about five miles northeast of the city walls, and (again to try to bring something of a “general rule across the Realms” into this answer) is consecrated ground surrounded by the claimed and farmed fields of a monastery, in an attempt to guard against undeath (or at least armies of shuffling undead rising out of graves unnoticed, until they pose a deadly threat to isolated steads and wayfarers). The Gate’s graveyard is called “the Field of Rest,” and consists of a vast burial hill surmounted by a simple chapel, in the heart of the mixed monastic community of Darfleet (named for its long-ago founding monk), temple-farms dedicated to the veneration of Chauntea. The monks bury all dead, using spells and fire-sticks to fight any undead who rise, and eventually till sections of the burial fields with plows, sewing edible crops that are harvested only for their seeds (sold and sent widely across the Realms). Other Darfleet fields do yield food that’s sold directly to folk in Baldur’s Gate and elsewhere, via city carters and passing caravan-merchants.

So that’s why you’ll find no graveyards on the FR ADVENTURES maps: the dead are either taken well outside a city, or are interred in underground crypts (guild members under a guild headquarters, for example, or members of a noble family under their own family mansion). After the Threat from the Sea, the mounded corpses of attacking sea-creatures were piled up on damaging, sinking vessels, towed out to sea, and incinerated with spells - - so the dryland defenders, to avoid any insult to their families, were all taken to a height (to the north) overlooking Baldur’s Gate, there burned, and carts full of the wetted-down ashes were taken to Darfleet for “tilling in.”

Borch, your earlier and longstanding questions haven’t been forgotten, and I WILL get to them in the fullness of time.

So saith Ed.

Who is wearied with the weight of Realmslore work at the moment, yet loves crafting it as much as ever, after more than thirty-seven years of imagineering. What a guy.

love to all,
THO"
Old Sage
12-19-06, 09:09 AM And, more from Ed:-

"October 24, 2005: Well met again, all. Ed of the Greenwood replies to Jindael’s question about specific churches of Faerūn and their use (or not) of crypts for the dead (Kuje, this touches on some of your long-awaited rituals “wants,” too), and here’s Ed’s reply:

Hi. Lack of time and not wanting to tread on the toes of Realms fiction writers describing burials (as Elaine and I did in CITY OF SPLENDORS recently) keep me from delving into detailed burial or death-commemoration rituals, but let’s run down your list:

Chauntea: no crypts. Bodies aren’t cremated, but rather ploughed into fallow fields, to enrich the soil (some temples so treat bodies of the faithful only; and for priests, sites are marked and skulls retrieved later, for veneration; other temples don’t do this), such fields being left fallow for at least the same growing season as the burial takes place in, and preferably three seasons; in cities, the dead taken out to countryside; where fields can’t be spared, burials are done in orchards, woodlots, or forest

Helm: Embalming, buried in full, sealed (with pitch and other substances) stone casket, buried with weapons and holy symbols to prevent becoming undead spontaneously, but to preserve them for use as “guardians” if a priest of Helm needs to animate them “for a holy purpose” (this almost never occurs, as the animation is frowned upon, but would be done to create temple defenders if a mad ruler or breakdown of all law and order or arrival of an orc horde endangered the consecrated ground)

Kelemvor: no crypts, but in-ground burial, in simple muslin or “found cloth” (used clothing, such as deceased’s own cloak, tunic, and breeches, sewn together) shroud (with holy symbols to prevent spontaneous rising as undead) of faithful and of all “common dead” not brought to other clergy, or refused by other clergy. If disease, mummy rot, or other dnger to the living exists, bodies are sewn into a shroud (temples keep some “large bag” shrouds ready for this purpose) and burned in a pyre without delay. Intent is to “keep the dead dead” and return their bodies to the earth for “the Endless Cycle”

Lathander: no crypts. In solemn temple ritual, with loved ones present if they want to be, bodies are transformed into other organic substances at random (Will of Lathander ritual akin to the “wild” effects of a wand of wonder), for use (as compost or material components or raw building materials or whatever) in “new beginnings”

Lliira: no crypts. Dance of Death spell cast in a consecrated (bare-earth and private place shielded from public view, deep in temple grounds [often ringed by gardens] or in the cellar of an in-city temple) bower, that animates corpse to dance endlessly until it collapses, the various pieces continuing to try to move until all joints fail and what’s left is allowed to rot on site; many corpses may be dancing in the same bower at the same time; rotted remains cremated and the ashes cast into the air by dancing clergy of the goddess, while participating in certain festivals (most of the major ones, throughout the year)

Selune: no crypts or embalming. Naked skyburial (on high platform, to be picked clean and scattered by scavengers and storms) if far from sea, otherwise laid naked on a raft and set out to sea (released when well out from shore; land should be “just visible” on the horizon) in moonlit conditions, to “voyage at the Lady’s bidding”

Sharess: no crypts or embalming. Priests embrace the dead in a ‘last intimacy’ (that need not be more intimate than a kiss while the living cleric’s arms are wrapped around the corpse), and the corpses are then animated in a Firedance spell, to cavort in air above a pyre, which is then lit to consume them (so they dance as they crumble into ash, “dancing on air” no matter how much they’ve crumbled, rather than collapsing as a Dance of Death spell allows)

Tempus: Embalming, with blood and fluids being drawn off for use (with transforming spells) into oil for armor worn by others into battle; prepared corpses are borne into shared crypts on a “bed of swords” (swordblades held flat, between priests on either side of corpse, to form a horizontal latticework), and laid to rest on stone shelves, holding weapons (their own, whenever possible) if the body is intact enough to allow such holding, and with a stone graven with their name, death date, and abbreviated deeds (“Murtar, died 1273 DR. Warrior of skill, fought at Eskryn, 1211; Horn’s Call, 1214; Mornar’s Bridge, 1216; much armed service guarding Secomber; fell fighting orcs valiantly”); fragmentary bodies are placed with tablet and any salvaged weapons or relics (piece of helm or armor); crypts typically hold hundreds, and are guarded by armed priests day and night to “honour the Valiant Fallen”

Tymora: crypts for some, embalming for some, resurrection for some, cremation for some, dicing and rotting for some: “Last Gamble” ritual involves dice (cast by loved ones if they want to be part of this, otherwise by the Lady’s clergy) that determine fate of the deceased; in above list, “crypts” means full magical preservation spells and sealing in luxurious but small crypt (like a canopied bed made of stone); embalming means body is preserved by physical means rather than magic, and placed reverently in a shared crypt; resurrection means clergy (for free) use all the magic they can muster to restore the corpse to whole and hale life, under no obligation whatsoever to the church of Tymora; cremation means burning on a shared pyre; and “dicing and rotting” means bodies are chopped up and scattered in a charnel (compost) heap to rot down, and eventually be spread on farm fields

And there you have it. Individual temples vary, especially in the amount of time they keep bodies in “cold crypt” storage (deep in stone-lined or solid stone chambers, to slow decay and prevent rats or other scavengers getting at bodies) for possible resurrections (if requested by family, adventuring colleagues, or civil authorities investigating crimes.

So saith Ed.

There you have it indeed. I knew about three of these from our Realmsplay, but the others are very interesting.

love to all,
THO"
Lord Karsus
12-19-06, 09:47 AM -And, of course, the Mulhorandi have their unique ways of dealing with the dead.

-Long ago, around the time of Cormanthyr, the Elves brought their dead to the Misty Vale, and usually interred them in crypts. The Wild Elves, however, usually buried their dead in unmarked gravesites. The Vale still stands today, though it is heavily warded, guarded by a host of unique Baelnorn, and not in use anymore.
bitter thorn
12-19-06, 10:49 AM Very helpful!:tiphat:

Many thanks for the lore. Alas, I cannot access the forums at Candlkeep from work, and my real world demands on my time limit my ability to plumb the vast depths of lore that are out there.

Kudos

PS far be it from me to discourage further sharing of lore. ;)
Lord Karsus
12-20-06, 12:08 AM Many thanks for the lore. Alas, I cannot access the forums at Candlkeep from work, and my real world demands on my time limit my ability to plumb the vast depths of lore that are out there.

-Don't you just hate when that stupid "Real World" interferes with things? ;)
The_Shaman
12-20-06, 10:45 AM Weren't priests of Kelemvor or Jergal expected to give last rites, regardless of religion? I remember having seen some ceremonies mentioned in FR for the Kelemvorite clergy.
bitter thorn
12-21-06, 03:53 AM -Don't you just hate when that stupid "Real World" interferes with things? ;)

LOL! Having a daughter in college is demanding, but I wouldn't trade it for anything! She even games a bit. Good grief, I'm getting old!;)
Dargoth
12-21-06, 04:56 PM Weren't priests of Kelemvor or Jergal expected to give last rites, regardless of religion? I remember having seen some ceremonies mentioned in FR for the Kelemvorite clergy.

Pre time of troubles Mykrul appeared at grave sites during funerals
bitter thorn
01-07-07, 11:23 PM Do mobilized human armies simply burn or leave thier dead?
BrianCritchley
01-10-07, 03:51 AM Do mobilized human armies simply burn or leave thier dead?

I iamgine it depends on the circumstances. still I imagine useally they try and give em a proper burial/last rites. it's bad for morale just to leave bodies of of soldiers comrades
Azar_of_Faerun
01-10-07, 08:53 AM Ironically most religions would seem to outsource Clerics of Grumbar, they're excellent at burial! :)
bitter thorn
01-12-07, 12:12 AM Ironically most religions would seem to outsource Clerics of Grumbar, they're excellent at burial! :)

I'm not sure that I follow.
draco1119
01-13-07, 08:08 AM Ironically most religions would seem to outsource Clerics of Grumbar, they're excellent at burial! :)

I'm not sure that I follow.
Grumbar is the god of Earth. His clerics have handy spells like Dig and Passwall...
Red_Wizard
01-13-07, 09:55 AM Thay practises, at least in some cases, embalming much like Mulhorand, though they seem to prefer mass tombs, as oppoed to individual ones, and actual funeral practises, vary from religion too religion.
bitter thorn
01-14-07, 09:41 AM Grumbar is the god of Earth. His clerics have handy spells like Dig and Passwall...

OK. I'm wih you now.:thinks:
MarkusTay63
01-14-07, 12:12 PM First, I have a felling Thayans preserve their dead so that they have more intact bodies when they need them.

Second, I would think a priest of Kelemvor would have a spell called Inter Dead. It would create a hole, then lift the body off a cart and place it in the hole, and lastly fill it in. Since this is their primary function it would makes sense. Then they probably would have a 8th or 9th level version called Mass grave for war applications. Perhaps priests of Jergal should have this duty instead?

Either way, then they would say a few prayers to both Kelemvor and the patron deity of the deceased (even if evil).

No one wants to be "Just another brick in the wall" (apologies to Pink Floyd). ;)
BrianCritchley
01-15-07, 01:38 AM clerics of kelemvor may not have such a spell simply due to the somber important nature of it.
bitter thorn
03-21-07, 04:57 AM I wonder about Ohgma and Denier.
The Ubbergeek
03-21-07, 07:29 PM Idea - maybe the Kossuthians see the fire as sacred, like the Zoroastrians; and maybe like them, they never let something unclean like trash, dung and bodies touch the fire. So, maybe they do 'houses of the deads', where the bodies are left under the sun to get eaten by vultures, insects and all?

Taking another idea from a real world religion... The followers of another elemental god, the one of earth (or another earthly god). Maybe they do like tibetan buddhists; cleansing the body under the sun too OR burning it, grounding any remaining calcinated bones, and then mixing what remains with earth?
msatran
03-22-07, 02:56 AM Well, I consider a Kossuthian who doesn't choose cremation to be a heretic, but that's just me.

If you're worshipping Grumbar and you don't choose to be buried, may your own priests tell you you're a heretic.

But I'd be careful. A priest of Lathander may decapitate your corpse if he can't raise you and burn you to prevent necromancers from raising you. I've SEEN this happen, too. :)
GothicDan
03-22-07, 07:08 AM Part of Kossuth's portfolio is purification through flame. That would indicate, by definition, that unclean (impure) things have to touch the flames.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bitter thorn 12-19-06, 12:25 AM	Is there an general outline of how funerals and, more practically, the modes of dealing with corpses, some where? An article would be fine; I'm particularly interested in the Dales, Cormyr, and Sembia. TIA!
Old Sage 12-19-06, 09:05 AM	You'll find that many of the burial methods and corpse treatment methods that have been detailed in the Realmslore are often shaped by specific racial and religious views. For example, you'll find a few brief funerary rites, as they relate to specific faiths, described in Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities. Ed also dealt with the matter of burials and a few specific burial methods in his '04 replies at Candlekeep.
Old Sage 12-19-06, 09:07 AM	Additionally, Ed, from July '05, has this to share:- "July 14, 2005: Hello, fellow scribes. Ed of the Greenwood makes reply to two scribes in the matter of the daily disposal of the dead: Borch and Asgetrion, Things vary so much across the Realms that it’s difficult to give any valid overall answer to your questions. However, in general, burial matters in cities and large towns across Faerūn “work like this:” Only noble or very wealthy or very old (long-established) families (or guilds) in an urban area have, and are allowed to keep, crypts within the city walls - - usually beneath the city proper. Everyone else must inter their dead (after allowing beasts to gnaw the bones clean, in some faiths, or after cremation in some faiths or in cases of disease, fungal growths, mummy rot, lycanthropy, suspected undeath, and so on) outside the city walls. This is the case in Baldur’s Gate. Or to put it more correctly: aside from a few old, well-hidden old-family crypts in that city, the dead are disposed of in two ways: shipped out to an offshore isle for burning (a formerly-popular custom, now used only for sailors or shipowners), or far more often corpses are carted well inland, to a monastic community. Homeless and penniless folk make the journey in a common “dead cart” known as “the Vulture Run,” and most citizens have a simple walk-with-the-cart funeral. In the case of Baldur’s Gate, the graveyard is about five miles northeast of the city walls, and (again to try to bring something of a “general rule across the Realms” into this answer) is consecrated ground surrounded by the claimed and farmed fields of a monastery, in an attempt to guard against undeath (or at least armies of shuffling undead rising out of graves unnoticed, until they pose a deadly threat to isolated steads and wayfarers). The Gate’s graveyard is called “the Field of Rest,” and consists of a vast burial hill surmounted by a simple chapel, in the heart of the mixed monastic community of Darfleet (named for its long-ago founding monk), temple-farms dedicated to the veneration of Chauntea. The monks bury all dead, using spells and fire-sticks to fight any undead who rise, and eventually till sections of the burial fields with plows, sewing edible crops that are harvested only for their seeds (sold and sent widely across the Realms). Other Darfleet fields do yield food that’s sold directly to folk in Baldur’s Gate and elsewhere, via city carters and passing caravan-merchants. So that’s why you’ll find no graveyards on the FR ADVENTURES maps: the dead are either taken well outside a city, or are interred in underground crypts (guild members under a guild headquarters, for example, or members of a noble family under their own family mansion). After the Threat from the Sea, the mounded corpses of attacking sea-creatures were piled up on damaging, sinking vessels, towed out to sea, and incinerated with spells - - so the dryland defenders, to avoid any insult to their families, were all taken to a height (to the north) overlooking Baldur’s Gate, there burned, and carts full of the wetted-down ashes were taken to Darfleet for “tilling in.” Borch, your earlier and longstanding questions haven’t been forgotten, and I WILL get to them in the fullness of time. So saith Ed. Who is wearied with the weight of Realmslore work at the moment, yet loves crafting it as much as ever, after more than thirty-seven years of imagineering. What a guy. love to all, THO"
Old Sage 12-19-06, 09:09 AM	And, more from Ed:- "October 24, 2005: Well met again, all. Ed of the Greenwood replies to Jindael’s question about specific churches of Faerūn and their use (or not) of crypts for the dead (Kuje, this touches on some of your long-awaited rituals “wants,” too), and here’s Ed’s reply: Hi. Lack of time and not wanting to tread on the toes of Realms fiction writers describing burials (as Elaine and I did in CITY OF SPLENDORS recently) keep me from delving into detailed burial or death-commemoration rituals, but let’s run down your list: Chauntea: no crypts. Bodies aren’t cremated, but rather ploughed into fallow fields, to enrich the soil (some temples so treat bodies of the faithful only; and for priests, sites are marked and skulls retrieved later, for veneration; other temples don’t do this), such fields being left fallow for at least the same growing season as the burial takes place in, and preferably three seasons; in cities, the dead taken out to countryside; where fields can’t be spared, burials are done in orchards, woodlots, or forest Helm: Embalming, buried in full, sealed (with pitch and other substances) stone casket, buried with weapons and holy symbols to prevent becoming undead spontaneously, but to preserve them for use as “guardians” if a priest of Helm needs to animate them “for a holy purpose” (this almost never occurs, as the animation is frowned upon, but would be done to create temple defenders if a mad ruler or breakdown of all law and order or arrival of an orc horde endangered the consecrated ground) Kelemvor: no crypts, but in-ground burial, in simple muslin or “found cloth” (used clothing, such as deceased’s own cloak, tunic, and breeches, sewn together) shroud (with holy symbols to prevent spontaneous rising as undead) of faithful and of all “common dead” not brought to other clergy, or refused by other clergy. If disease, mummy rot, or other dnger to the living exists, bodies are sewn into a shroud (temples keep some “large bag” shrouds ready for this purpose) and burned in a pyre without delay. Intent is to “keep the dead dead” and return their bodies to the earth for “the Endless Cycle” Lathander: no crypts. In solemn temple ritual, with loved ones present if they want to be, bodies are transformed into other organic substances at random (Will of Lathander ritual akin to the “wild” effects of a wand of wonder), for use (as compost or material components or raw building materials or whatever) in “new beginnings” Lliira: no crypts. Dance of Death spell cast in a consecrated (bare-earth and private place shielded from public view, deep in temple grounds [often ringed by gardens] or in the cellar of an in-city temple) bower, that animates corpse to dance endlessly until it collapses, the various pieces continuing to try to move until all joints fail and what’s left is allowed to rot on site; many corpses may be dancing in the same bower at the same time; rotted remains cremated and the ashes cast into the air by dancing clergy of the goddess, while participating in certain festivals (most of the major ones, throughout the year) Selune: no crypts or embalming. Naked skyburial (on high platform, to be picked clean and scattered by scavengers and storms) if far from sea, otherwise laid naked on a raft and set out to sea (released when well out from shore; land should be “just visible” on the horizon) in moonlit conditions, to “voyage at the Lady’s bidding” Sharess: no crypts or embalming. Priests embrace the dead in a ‘last intimacy’ (that need not be more intimate than a kiss while the living cleric’s arms are wrapped around the corpse), and the corpses are then animated in a Firedance spell, to cavort in air above a pyre, which is then lit to consume them (so they dance as they crumble into ash, “dancing on air” no matter how much they’ve crumbled, rather than collapsing as a Dance of Death spell allows) Tempus: Embalming, with blood and fluids being drawn off for use (with transforming spells) into oil for armor worn by others into battle; prepared corpses are borne into shared crypts on a “bed of swords” (swordblades held flat, between priests on either side of corpse, to form a horizontal latticework), and laid to rest on stone shelves, holding weapons (their own, whenever possible) if the body is intact enough to allow such holding, and with a stone graven with their name, death date, and abbreviated deeds (“Murtar, died 1273 DR. Warrior of skill, fought at Eskryn, 1211; Horn’s Call, 1214; Mornar’s Bridge, 1216; much armed service guarding Secomber; fell fighting orcs valiantly”); fragmentary bodies are placed with tablet and any salvaged weapons or relics (piece of helm or armor); crypts typically hold hundreds, and are guarded by armed priests day and night to “honour the Valiant Fallen” Tymora: crypts for some, embalming for some, resurrection for some, cremation for some, dicing and rotting for some: “Last Gamble” ritual involves dice (cast by loved ones if they want to be part of this, otherwise by the Lady’s clergy) that determine fate of the deceased; in above list, “crypts” means full magical preservation spells and sealing in luxurious but small crypt (like a canopied bed made of stone); embalming means body is preserved by physical means rather than magic, and placed reverently in a shared crypt; resurrection means clergy (for free) use all the magic they can muster to restore the corpse to whole and hale life, under no obligation whatsoever to the church of Tymora; cremation means burning on a shared pyre; and “dicing and rotting” means bodies are chopped up and scattered in a charnel (compost) heap to rot down, and eventually be spread on farm fields And there you have it. Individual temples vary, especially in the amount of time they keep bodies in “cold crypt” storage (deep in stone-lined or solid stone chambers, to slow decay and prevent rats or other scavengers getting at bodies) for possible resurrections (if requested by family, adventuring colleagues, or civil authorities investigating crimes. So saith Ed. There you have it indeed. I knew about three of these from our Realmsplay, but the others are very interesting. love to all, THO"
Lord Karsus 12-19-06, 09:47 AM	-And, of course, the Mulhorandi have their unique ways of dealing with the dead. -Long ago, around the time of Cormanthyr, the Elves brought their dead to the Misty Vale, and usually interred them in crypts. The Wild Elves, however, usually buried their dead in unmarked gravesites. The Vale still stands today, though it is heavily warded, guarded by a host of unique Baelnorn, and not in use anymore.
bitter thorn 12-19-06, 10:49 AM	Very helpful!:tiphat: Many thanks for the lore. Alas, I cannot access the forums at Candlkeep from work, and my real world demands on my time limit my ability to plumb the vast depths of lore that are out there. Kudos PS far be it from me to discourage further sharing of lore. ;)
Lord Karsus 12-20-06, 12:08 AM	Many thanks for the lore. Alas, I cannot access the forums at Candlkeep from work, and my real world demands on my time limit my ability to plumb the vast depths of lore that are out there. -Don't you just hate when that stupid "Real World" interferes with things? ;)
The_Shaman 12-20-06, 10:45 AM	Weren't priests of Kelemvor or Jergal expected to give last rites, regardless of religion? I remember having seen some ceremonies mentioned in FR for the Kelemvorite clergy.
bitter thorn 12-21-06, 03:53 AM	-Don't you just hate when that stupid "Real World" interferes with things? ;) LOL! Having a daughter in college is demanding, but I wouldn't trade it for anything! She even games a bit. Good grief, I'm getting old!;)
Dargoth 12-21-06, 04:56 PM	Weren't priests of Kelemvor or Jergal expected to give last rites, regardless of religion? I remember having seen some ceremonies mentioned in FR for the Kelemvorite clergy. Pre time of troubles Mykrul appeared at grave sites during funerals
bitter thorn 01-07-07, 11:23 PM	Do mobilized human armies simply burn or leave thier dead?
BrianCritchley 01-10-07, 03:51 AM	Do mobilized human armies simply burn or leave thier dead? I iamgine it depends on the circumstances. still I imagine useally they try and give em a proper burial/last rites. it's bad for morale just to leave bodies of of soldiers comrades
Azar_of_Faerun 01-10-07, 08:53 AM	Ironically most religions would seem to outsource Clerics of Grumbar, they're excellent at burial! :)
bitter thorn 01-12-07, 12:12 AM	Ironically most religions would seem to outsource Clerics of Grumbar, they're excellent at burial! :) I'm not sure that I follow.
draco1119 01-13-07, 08:08 AM	Ironically most religions would seem to outsource Clerics of Grumbar, they're excellent at burial! :) I'm not sure that I follow. Grumbar is the god of Earth. His clerics have handy spells like Dig and Passwall...
Red_Wizard 01-13-07, 09:55 AM	Thay practises, at least in some cases, embalming much like Mulhorand, though they seem to prefer mass tombs, as oppoed to individual ones, and actual funeral practises, vary from religion too religion.
bitter thorn 01-14-07, 09:41 AM	Grumbar is the god of Earth. His clerics have handy spells like Dig and Passwall... OK. I'm wih you now.:thinks:
MarkusTay63 01-14-07, 12:12 PM	First, I have a felling Thayans preserve their dead so that they have more intact bodies when they need them. Second, I would think a priest of Kelemvor would have a spell called Inter Dead. It would create a hole, then lift the body off a cart and place it in the hole, and lastly fill it in. Since this is their primary function it would makes sense. Then they probably would have a 8th or 9th level version called Mass grave for war applications. Perhaps priests of Jergal should have this duty instead? Either way, then they would say a few prayers to both Kelemvor and the patron deity of the deceased (even if evil). No one wants to be "Just another brick in the wall" (apologies to Pink Floyd). ;)
BrianCritchley 01-15-07, 01:38 AM	clerics of kelemvor may not have such a spell simply due to the somber important nature of it.
bitter thorn 03-21-07, 04:57 AM	I wonder about Ohgma and Denier.
The Ubbergeek 03-21-07, 07:29 PM	Idea - maybe the Kossuthians see the fire as sacred, like the Zoroastrians; and maybe like them, they never let something unclean like trash, dung and bodies touch the fire. So, maybe they do 'houses of the deads', where the bodies are left under the sun to get eaten by vultures, insects and all? Taking another idea from a real world religion... The followers of another elemental god, the one of earth (or another earthly god). Maybe they do like tibetan buddhists; cleansing the body under the sun too OR burning it, grounding any remaining calcinated bones, and then mixing what remains with earth?
msatran 03-22-07, 02:56 AM	Well, I consider a Kossuthian who doesn't choose cremation to be a heretic, but that's just me. If you're worshipping Grumbar and you don't choose to be buried, may your own priests tell you you're a heretic. But I'd be careful. A priest of Lathander may decapitate your corpse if he can't raise you and burn you to prevent necromancers from raising you. I've SEEN this happen, too. :)
GothicDan 03-22-07, 07:08 AM	Part of Kossuth's portfolio is purification through flame. That would indicate, by definition, that unclean (impure) things have to touch the flames.