General power-levels in Faerun [Archive] - Wizards Community

General power-levels in Faerun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Michael Riis
02-11-06, 11:30 AM This may seem like a silly question, but it is nevertheless a question we have been discussing in my group for a while (I am the DM), so here goes:

How are levels generally allocated across Faerun?

Or --->

How relatively strong should players be in the FRCS when they attain a certain level? Should a group of level 10- characters be able to rule a small state, or should the be thrown out of the local bar, by the level 33 bouncer?

[The easy answer is offcourse that I as a DM should decide the general power-level of the environment, and adjust it as the campaign goes on - but I'd really like to know if there is a general rule of thumb, like: Only 1% of the populace is above lvl 2, or each big faction/state/whatever has a good handfull level 20愀+ and at least 200 lvl 10-20愀..]

Thanks in advance :)
White_Wizard
02-11-06, 01:27 PM Such rule of thumb are in the DMG
Michael Riis
02-12-06, 11:02 AM Well perhaps I did not post my question in a specific enough way.

The reason I asked in this forum, was that it seems to me that the general guidelines posted in the DMG does not seem to correspond with the way that Faerun is structured/works.

The ruling (good) powers are usually described as a lot weaker than indicated in the tables in the DMG. Several Kings and Queens are no more than level 12-16, and are not described as having an army of awakened Elminster-clones on the standby. On the other hand the world is crammed to the bursting point with various monsters, of which the bulk seems able to devestate an entire countryside.

So to re-word my question: How does the countryside manage not to get smashed up? How come the is life on Faerun outside the mega-cities walls? Because even if you follow the guidelines in the DMG, then there really should not to be any small communities left..

That is why I and my group were wondering, if there perhaps is more high-level good aligned people around in Faerun, working as city guards and whatever, than indicated in the DMG. Because even if all the highlevel characters rolled up were assumed to be happy do-gooders working for the greater good, then they would get creamed in a split second anyway.

Our solution to the problem has been this: Evil people/factions/monsters usually sleep a lot. A whole lot actually... And only comes out to play, when there is adventures around/to kick eachother in the rear. Which works, but not in an entire satisfactory manner.

/Michael
Kuje31
02-12-06, 11:30 AM I really don't know how to answer this and I tried to think of a answer for over a day now.

But basically my answer is this: There is no general power level. :) NPC's, which includes monsters, range from 1st level all the way up to 60+ level.
Old Sage
02-12-06, 11:51 AM I really don't know how to answer this and I tried to think of a answer for over a day now.

But basically my answer is this: There is no general power level. :) NPC's, which includes monsters, range from 1st level all the way up to 60+ level.Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Power levels in FR have pretty much always run the gamut -- from the very low 0-level right up to (now in 3e) Epic and beyond.

There's almost always a nice tidy mix of levels in each area of the Realms... so allocation of levels is pretty much a difficult subject to successfully tackle.
GothicDan
02-12-06, 12:22 PM Agreed.

To counter those low-level rulers, you have all of the Epic Zulkirs, the Simbul, Alustriel, the Lords of Waterdeep, etc. FR is just too varied, culturally, to ever try to tack on a generic/common level progression. It varies at the very least by region.

For example, if I had to make a generalization about any one region, I'd think that the Unapproachable East may be slightly more suitable for higher level play. I wouldn't go any further than that at all.
Michael Riis
02-13-06, 07:22 AM Thanks for the answers.

Now I'll go worry about something else, hopefully a little less silly.

/Michael
Derren S.
02-13-06, 08:42 AM The level in FR is generally higher than in other D&D worlds.
Below level 5 you probably aren't even allowed to call yourself hero as there are so many of lvl 5 NPCs around.
And don't expect to start getting an reputation until lvl 8 when you finally begin to discern yourself from the masses of NPC organization hirelings and can become something else than an NPC lackey. By that time you could get some political power on town level but for cities don't expect to have any influence till lvl 12 (except you devote the majority of your time to politics and not adventuring). Also at that level you can think about getting a keep and land as most landowners seem to be that level.

If you want to affect the Realms (or only a major kingdom) with your decision and/or alter its (political) landscape need to be epic/near-epic, otherwise the FR superpowers/villians will quickly deal with you when you cross one of their plans.
Sliced_Mustard
02-13-06, 06:53 PM I also remember from my 1e FR grey box set, it said that levels of NPCs described should be varied by the DM so the players don't walk into tonw at a given level looking to smack around a lower level mayor or something along those lines.

basically, levels should be as DM needs them... and if the players happen to run across an epic level sorcerer pulling double duty as a serving wench in a tavern, there is likely should be a good explanation for her to do so. also, it should not be uncommon to find people in political power to not be higher level than players just for the sake of not being killed. if needed, they can always hire more powerful guards to protect them from uppity adventurers looking to take over a town.
Faraer
02-14-06, 11:28 AM A problem in answering this question is that character levels aren't in-Realms facts; the level scale is an interpretation of the Realms, and one that has fluctuated over the years, with the phenomenon of level inflation, and between editors and authors. Sliced Mustard is right on the mark: exact character levels are a function of the needs of a particular campaign.

The DMG guidelines are a decent rule of thumb for the Realms, though. That book doesn't quantify monster populations, so I don't see the basis for that observation. Also, characters and monsters aren't fighting each other all the time! They have lives to carry out.

High levels are not needed for power and influence -- not that those are the main goals of good-aligned folk -- in Faer塜. There are many characters like Jhaele Silvermane who exert social influence far beyond their level, rulers without monstrous levels (as Michael notes), and adventuring companies that 'punch beyond their weight' through cooperation, friendship, and far-sighted manipulation -- Mane's Band, the Knights of Myth Drannor, etc. And in Ed Greenwood's writing there's no such thing as a minor character. (That some readers fixate on higher-level characters is not a characteristic of the Realms.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Michael Riis 02-11-06, 11:30 AM	This may seem like a silly question, but it is nevertheless a question we have been discussing in my group for a while (I am the DM), so here goes: How are levels generally allocated across Faerun? Or ---> How relatively strong should players be in the FRCS when they attain a certain level? Should a group of level 10- characters be able to rule a small state, or should the be thrown out of the local bar, by the level 33 bouncer? [The easy answer is offcourse that I as a DM should decide the general power-level of the environment, and adjust it as the campaign goes on - but I'd really like to know if there is a general rule of thumb, like: Only 1% of the populace is above lvl 2, or each big faction/state/whatever has a good handfull level 20愀+ and at least 200 lvl 10-20愀..] Thanks in advance :)
White_Wizard 02-11-06, 01:27 PM	Such rule of thumb are in the DMG
Michael Riis 02-12-06, 11:02 AM	Well perhaps I did not post my question in a specific enough way. The reason I asked in this forum, was that it seems to me that the general guidelines posted in the DMG does not seem to correspond with the way that Faerun is structured/works. The ruling (good) powers are usually described as a lot weaker than indicated in the tables in the DMG. Several Kings and Queens are no more than level 12-16, and are not described as having an army of awakened Elminster-clones on the standby. On the other hand the world is crammed to the bursting point with various monsters, of which the bulk seems able to devestate an entire countryside. So to re-word my question: How does the countryside manage not to get smashed up? How come the is life on Faerun outside the mega-cities walls? Because even if you follow the guidelines in the DMG, then there really should not to be any small communities left.. That is why I and my group were wondering, if there perhaps is more high-level good aligned people around in Faerun, working as city guards and whatever, than indicated in the DMG. Because even if all the highlevel characters rolled up were assumed to be happy do-gooders working for the greater good, then they would get creamed in a split second anyway. Our solution to the problem has been this: Evil people/factions/monsters usually sleep a lot. A whole lot actually... And only comes out to play, when there is adventures around/to kick eachother in the rear. Which works, but not in an entire satisfactory manner. /Michael
Kuje31 02-12-06, 11:30 AM	I really don't know how to answer this and I tried to think of a answer for over a day now. But basically my answer is this: There is no general power level. :) NPC's, which includes monsters, range from 1st level all the way up to 60+ level.
Old Sage 02-12-06, 11:51 AM	I really don't know how to answer this and I tried to think of a answer for over a day now. But basically my answer is this: There is no general power level. :) NPC's, which includes monsters, range from 1st level all the way up to 60+ level.Yeah, I'd agree with that. Power levels in FR have pretty much always run the gamut -- from the very low 0-level right up to (now in 3e) Epic and beyond. There's almost always a nice tidy mix of levels in each area of the Realms... so allocation of levels is pretty much a difficult subject to successfully tackle.
GothicDan 02-12-06, 12:22 PM	Agreed. To counter those low-level rulers, you have all of the Epic Zulkirs, the Simbul, Alustriel, the Lords of Waterdeep, etc. FR is just too varied, culturally, to ever try to tack on a generic/common level progression. It varies at the very least by region. For example, if I had to make a generalization about any one region, I'd think that the Unapproachable East may be slightly more suitable for higher level play. I wouldn't go any further than that at all.
Michael Riis 02-13-06, 07:22 AM	Thanks for the answers. Now I'll go worry about something else, hopefully a little less silly. /Michael
Derren S. 02-13-06, 08:42 AM	The level in FR is generally higher than in other D&D worlds. Below level 5 you probably aren't even allowed to call yourself hero as there are so many of lvl 5 NPCs around. And don't expect to start getting an reputation until lvl 8 when you finally begin to discern yourself from the masses of NPC organization hirelings and can become something else than an NPC lackey. By that time you could get some political power on town level but for cities don't expect to have any influence till lvl 12 (except you devote the majority of your time to politics and not adventuring). Also at that level you can think about getting a keep and land as most landowners seem to be that level. If you want to affect the Realms (or only a major kingdom) with your decision and/or alter its (political) landscape need to be epic/near-epic, otherwise the FR superpowers/villians will quickly deal with you when you cross one of their plans.
Sliced_Mustard 02-13-06, 06:53 PM	I also remember from my 1e FR grey box set, it said that levels of NPCs described should be varied by the DM so the players don't walk into tonw at a given level looking to smack around a lower level mayor or something along those lines. basically, levels should be as DM needs them... and if the players happen to run across an epic level sorcerer pulling double duty as a serving wench in a tavern, there is likely should be a good explanation for her to do so. also, it should not be uncommon to find people in political power to not be higher level than players just for the sake of not being killed. if needed, they can always hire more powerful guards to protect them from uppity adventurers looking to take over a town.
Faraer 02-14-06, 11:28 AM	A problem in answering this question is that character levels aren't in-Realms facts; the level scale is an interpretation of the Realms, and one that has fluctuated over the years, with the phenomenon of level inflation, and between editors and authors. Sliced Mustard is right on the mark: exact character levels are a function of the needs of a particular campaign. The DMG guidelines are a decent rule of thumb for the Realms, though. That book doesn't quantify monster populations, so I don't see the basis for that observation. Also, characters and monsters aren't fighting each other all the time! They have lives to carry out. High levels are not needed for power and influence -- not that those are the main goals of good-aligned folk -- in Faer塜. There are many characters like Jhaele Silvermane who exert social influence far beyond their level, rulers without monstrous levels (as Michael notes), and adventuring companies that 'punch beyond their weight' through cooperation, friendship, and far-sighted manipulation -- Mane's Band, the Knights of Myth Drannor, etc. And in Ed Greenwood's writing there's no such thing as a minor character. (That some readers fixate on higher-level characters is not a characteristic of the Realms.)