Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Butterface 12-20-07, 01:25 PM	Gnomes will never look or act this way in my FR games. Never. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/toon/20071219a
Suin Bahhar 12-20-07, 02:16 PM	I found it funny though. Better than the first one.
Butterface 12-20-07, 02:50 PM	The gnome in that Flash video acts like a moronic child. Also, since when did gnomes become rip-offs of Lilo and Stitch?
Suin Bahhar 12-20-07, 03:13 PM	It's called "artistic" freedom I guess.
Suin Bahhar 12-20-07, 03:49 PM	I just read Bakers responce. You're right they are going to look like aliens. :eek: I hope some other artist has a better sketch available soon.
johnkretzer 12-20-07, 03:50 PM	The gnome in that Flash video acts like a moronic child. Also, since when did gnomes become rip-offs of Lilo and Stitch? Well they had to make gnomes 'uncool' so that their decision to not include them in the PhB is supported. Basic politics.(Though yes I did find both cartoons to be amusing...it is the only 4th edition advertisment I have seen that I liked) That is what I love right now their propganada.
msatran 12-20-07, 04:00 PM	I don't know. I think warlock is uncool, so nothing that they possibly do can sell me on this material as good. Trading out Gnome for Tiefling and Warlock for DRUID and BARD? Two classes that are at the HEART of the Realms? I don't even want to THINK about how much this is going to suck.
Butterface 12-20-07, 04:04 PM	Yeah, after reading his response, I realize he's right; there's not much artwork out there in 2nd or 3rd Ed for Gnomes. I guess I've always envisioned a cross between David the Gnome (you know, the gnome on nickelodeon that rode the fox) and Gimble. (And if it's Forest Gnomes we're talking about, David the Gnome is pretty much dead on IMO). Maybe its unfair of me to get so upset at that portrayal when there's been so little to base my idea on, but that version of the gnome was so off from what I had envisioned that I found myself appalled.
johnkretzer 12-20-07, 04:18 PM	Yeah, after reading his response, I realize he's right; there's not much artwork out there in 2nd or 3rd Ed for Gnomes. I guess I've always envisioned a cross between David the Gnome (you know, the gnome on nickelodeon that rode the fox) and Gimble. (And if it's Forest Gnomes we're talking about, David the Gnome is pretty much dead on IMO). Maybe its unfair of me to get so upset at that portrayal when there's been so little to base my idea on, but that version of the gnome was so off from what I had envisioned that I found myself appalled. um...look at the PHB in 3rd edition and 2nd edition...the reason you envisioned that is till now that is how they were drawn...sure they wasn't alot of art...but it was pretty distinct on how they looked. And small shark people(all black eyes and all sharp teeth) wasn't it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 07:39 PM	That cartoon was painful to watch, in more ways than one. And I don't think hurting animals is funny (seriously).
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 08:29 PM	That was funny as heck. Rino, that was a DIRE badger! She had no CHOICE but to put it down!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 08:47 PM	Rino, that was a DIRE badger! She had no CHOICE but to put it down! Well, I thought it was cute and cuddly-looking. And "dire" doesn't mean "rabid".:)
BadCatMan 12-20-07, 08:47 PM	I couldn't stand to watch that thing. It was just so damned irritating to look at and listen to, I could feel my skull itching. I gave up early, for the sake of my sanity. Gah! So this is the face of 4e.
Dark Wizard 12-20-07, 09:06 PM	um...look at the PHB in 3rd edition and 2nd edition...the reason you envisioned that is till now that is how they were drawn...sure they wasn't alot of art...but it was pretty distinct on how they looked. And small shark people(all black eyes and all sharp teeth) wasn't it. To be fair, the host of the show had a similar look and we can assume he's human. I think it's just the artist's style. Overall I think these flash bits are some of the least annoying bits of 4E. I like the idea. They don't take it far enough though, like they're trying to have fun but are still tied down by silly notions of information relevance and rigid coherency or logic. That's what's keeping it from becoming viral, a new web meme, the next net sensation.
Gray Richardson 12-20-07, 09:10 PM	The gnome in the cartoon is a cartoon version of the gnome "look". I imagine it will look better when you see the actual picture in the Monster Manual. He doesn't look half bad to me. Sort of a Brian Froud-esque interpretation of a young gnome. It's kind of growing on me.
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 09:13 PM	Well, I thought it was cute and cuddly-looking. And "dire" doesn't mean "rabid".:) You've never met up with a real life badger have you? They are among some of the most foul tempered and mean animals in the countryside! A badger would tear you up! In all honesty, that badger should have got inside the gnome's face for hugging him like that.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 09:25 PM	deleted
Gray Richardson 12-20-07, 09:28 PM	And I don't think hurting animals is funny (seriously).It wasn't meant to be serious. While I agree that hurting actual animals in real life is not a very nice thing to do, cartoon violence done to cartoon animals is sort of a staple of the cartoon art form. I mean, a lot of people think Itchy and Scratchy are pretty darn hilarious. And then there is the Coyote & Roadrunner, heck pretty much all of the Warner Bros. classical cartoons had comical violence to animals. Disney too, And don't forget Tom & Jerry. Heck, such children's entertainment predates animation itself, you see it in Aesop's fables, Mother Goose, the Brother's Grimm and going back centuries to puppet plays like Punch & Judy, the Commedia Dell'Arte, and come to think of it the myths and legends of all cultures. Personally, I think cartoon violence, whether done to people or animals, is seriously funny. :evillaugh
Dark Wizard 12-20-07, 09:34 PM	The badger bit from excessive snuggling by the gnome to the tiefling kicking it was fun (in an obviously cartoony violence way). I think it was meant to look cute and cuddly and the tiefling's actions says more about the tiefling than anything else.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 09:35 PM	It wasn't meant to be serious. While I agree that hurting actual animals in real life is not a very nice thing to do, cartoon violence done to cartoon animals is sort of a staple of the cartoon art form. I mean, a lot of people think Itchy and Scratchy are pretty darn hilarious. And then there is the Coyote & Roadrunner, heck pretty much all of the Warner Bros. classical cartoons had comical violence to animals. Disney too, And don't forget Tom & Jerry. Heck, such children's entertainment predates animation itself, you see it in Aesop's fables, Mother Goose, the Brother's Grimm and going back centuries to puppet plays like Punch & Judy, the Commedia Dell'Arte, and come to think of it the myths and legends of all cultures. Personally, I think cartoon violence, whether done to people or animals, is seriously funny. :evillaugh Blah blah blah. I didn't find the cartoon funny at all. You don't need to lecture me about it, because I'm not going to change my mind.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 09:41 PM	You've never met up with a real life badger have you? They are among some of the most foul tempered and mean animals in the countryside! A badger would tear you up! In all honesty, that badger should have got inside the gnome's face for hugging him like that. Next time I won't mention it, so as not to give anyone the chance to get up on their well-worn soapbox to lecture me about it (because I'm an idiot and I know nothing about animals in real life, or the history of animation and stories!). Deal? I thought this cartoon was stupid. Get over it!
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 09:45 PM	That cartoon was painful to watch, in more ways than one. -Yeah, I'm going to have to agree. I just didn't find that one bit funny. And, it nothing to do with the fact that I am already leaning against 4e to begin with. It was just...not funny. The Gnome was moronic looking, but the Tiefling looked pretty cool. Don't know why she was Russian, but why not? -This is a perfect time to use a smiley! After I finished watching that, I was like this: :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 09:49 PM	-Yeah, I'm going to have to agree. I just didn't find that one bit funny. And, it nothing to do with the fact that I am already leaning against 4e to begin with. It was just...not funny. The Gnome was moronic looking, but the Tiefling looked pretty cool. Don't know why she was Russian, but why not? Her accent hurt my ears!
Rauric 12-20-07, 09:52 PM	Blah blah blah. I didn't find the cartoon funny at all. You don't need to lecture me about it, because I'm not going to change my mind. Wow. Very mature. You posted the remark, they responded. Welcome to the boards. On a side note the cartoon was kinda annoying. Plus the animal getting kicked was sort of odd. So I am agreeing with ya sort of and bashing you at the same time. Weird.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 09:56 PM	Wow. Very mature. You posted the remark, they responded. Welcome to the boards. On a side note the cartoon was kinda annoying. Plus the animal getting kicked was sort of odd. So I am agreeing with ya sort of and bashing you at the same time. Weird. Leave me alone. I don't think it's your place make personal comments about me, so let's move on.
Rauric 12-20-07, 10:13 PM	Leave me alone. I don't think it's your place make personal comments about me, so let's move on. No problem. I was just trying to get you to look at your own post and realize you were a bit mistaken with how you responded is all. I definitely have said the wrong thing on these forums before. It happens. It's dropped.
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 10:15 PM	-You heard the lady. Knock it off. http://www.emoticonzone.com/msn-emotions/evil/mafia.gif (http://www.emoticonzone.com) (:D)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 10:17 PM	LK: Heh! Cute. :) No problem. I was just trying to get you to look at your own post and realize you were a bit mistaken with how you responded is all. I definitely have said the wrong thing on these forums before. It happens. It's dropped. Thank you. I'm sorry if I came off as a jerk, but I really can't stand being lectured to. I'm also not in the best of moods.
Gray Richardson 12-20-07, 10:22 PM	It is my opinion that people who offer criticism should have the good grace to accept criticism in return. I find it amusing that people who offer the harshest criticism tend to be very defensive and sensitive about criticism aimed at themselves. This is not aimed at anyone in particular, just sharing my opinion.
Rauric 12-20-07, 10:23 PM	We all need to breathe. Ahhh, much better. Gnomes in my games will have big honking noses. Yup. That works for me.
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 10:25 PM	Gnomes in my games will have big honking noses. Yup. That works for me. -The real question is if they will bear any resembalance to an Enlarged Stitch zombie fetus?
Rauric 12-20-07, 10:28 PM	??? As in the cartoon ya mean? I will just have to see how they are represented in the MM.
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 10:30 PM	??? As in the cartoon ya mean? -Yes, the cartoon Gnome looked like a Zombie, a fetus, and a big version of Stitch from Lilo and Stitch all at once.
Rauric 12-20-07, 10:34 PM	I think they want them to look a bit feylike perhaps? Just guessing. They may need to work on that image a bit.
Butterface 12-20-07, 11:56 PM	I think they want them to look a bit feylike perhaps? Just guessing. They may need to work on that image a bit. So who at WotC can I send my bill to, seeing as how I puked all over my keyboard after watching that interpretation of the Gnome race?
msatran 12-21-07, 12:18 AM	They did not look like a stitch fey creature. The gnome looked like an eight year old who had been repeatedly struck by bolts of lightning. And you know, the gnome kind of acted like it, too.
Dark Wizard 12-21-07, 01:32 AM	This occurred to me: I'm not sure what the purpose of these flash animations are for, but if they're to "get the word out," to advertise 4E, this has been a poor job in terms of distribution. I linked them to a friend, thinking he might enjoy them, but I forgot he needed an account, which he doesn't have and has no interest in getting at this point. These animations do nothing if new people can't view them. Maybe the flash animations could help spur new people to sign up and see what this 4E or D&D thing is all about, leading to them playing D&D when it comes out. This is a real conversation killer. Me: So WotC has these flash animations on 4E D&D. Buddy: Oh? Cool, where? Me: *link* Buddy: Says I need a login to see them. Meh. Me: Oh... They were fun. Buddy: I guess.... Me: I guess you had to be there... So, how's the weather over there?
johnkretzer 12-21-07, 01:37 AM	I think they want them to look a bit feylike perhaps? Just guessing. They may need to work on that image a bit. Or maybe how fey are suppose to look perhaps...;)
Reneshat 12-21-07, 03:23 AM	My take on the flash animation was vary torn. On one hand, I did not like the depiction of the gnome as a gnome, nor did I particularly care for the Tiefling, her being a warlock, or really the ending when she killed everyone. As far as I am concerned, Tiefling warlocks should be bad guys, not player characters, but eh, whatever, Paladins are no longer LG so really how far can my complaint go? However, even though I don't like the idea of gnomes being portrayed that way, I found him adorable and humorous. The bit where he's cuddling Francis saying, "Whose my minion?" evoked an uncommon "Ahhhhh" response from me, even though as one poster previously mentioned, even a normal badger would not put up with that stuff. So I enjoyed the animation as an animation, but only for the gnome, and I didn't like what it was saying about how gnomes are going to be portrayed. I guess that about sums it up for me.
Rauric 12-21-07, 09:00 AM	I am pretty sure they were trying to make fun of peoples concepts of annoying gamers. With words like "sweet" and the gnomes childish, over caffinated behavior. Good point about it, finding out more about Locks. Choosing the Fey path will get you different abilities? Good times. Anyway gnomes can look like that all they want, I am still putting huge noses on mine. I guess they want them to not be 2nd rate halflings and dwarves. I actually love gnomes ever since EB came out and did a good job with the race and their little nation that resembled a nicer 1984/Big Brother deal.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 12:01 PM	I am pretty sure they were trying to make fun of peoples concepts of annoying gamers. With words like "sweet" and the gnomes childish, over caffinated behavior. -I think that's how they ("Those who be") talk, actually. You've seen the gencon videos, yes? If not, check 'em out on Youtube. That was actually one of the things I first picked up on. "Why are they talking like that?" -But, I guess from them being on the west coast and all...:P
MarkusTay63 12-22-07, 08:48 AM	So who at WotC can I send my bill to, seeing as how I puked all over my keyboard after watching that interpretation of the Gnome race?I didn't even make it through the whole thing. :yuck: Everytime I decide to give 4e a chance, they show us something like THAT... :nonono: I guess 'Spikey Hair' is all part of the new appeal, and these cartoons will really bring in the "Scooby-doo" crowd. :bored:
Butterface 12-22-07, 10:12 AM	I didn't even make it through the whole thing. :yuck: Everytime I decide to give 4e a chance, they show us something like THAT... :nonono: I guess 'Spikey Hair' is all part of the new appeal, and these cartoons will really bring in the "Scooby-doo" crowd. :bored: You know that's the thing, I really have been pro 4E for some time now, and I don't know if it's just hanging out on these boards, seeing the crap they put out to hype up 4E, or a combination of the two, but I'm starting to get really annoyed with the idea of 4E. All they've really done at this point is point out 3rd Ed's flaws, not sell 4E (at least to me). Result = me actually thinking about returning to 2nd ed. Or at least thinking back fondly to my 2nd ed days.
Rauric 12-22-07, 10:48 AM	The toon really was supposed t obe making fun of the whole 4E and people interests and dislikes. The overcaffinated gnome, the "Pure Evil" heavenly accented "roleplayer". It's a ha ha thing with a few tiny teasers on what we will get class/racewise. The other boards info on the Elf race is great stuff. This was a bit blah. The gnomes eyes look rather feyish if you check out some of the 3.5 E fey. Many have black eyes I believe. I want 4E to be out tomorrow already!
Faraer 12-22-07, 11:59 AM	The gnome in that Flash video acts like a moronic child.And the tiefling acts like a moronic teenager. But it was way better than the Gen Con film with the 'Frenchman'.
Lord Karsus 12-22-07, 02:01 PM	But it was way better than the Gen Con film with the 'Frenchman'. -Care to elaborate? -And, now I'm just nitpicking, but 'Francis' isn't a Gnomish name...:cool:
Faraer 12-22-07, 02:20 PM	This one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc)
Lord Karsus 12-22-07, 02:45 PM	This one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc) -W...o...w... -Why is it that everything Chris Perkins appears in, I do not like? No offense to the guy, but there's just something about him...It's like, I want to punch him when I hear his voice. Why is it that certain people have that effect on other people? -As someone else has mentioned, somewhere, most 4e promos don't actually explain why 4e is good. They just highlight the flaws and problems of previous editions (THAC0, "Grapple", etc.) This is another example of that.
johnkretzer 12-22-07, 02:55 PM	-W...o...w... -Why is it that everything Chris Perkins appears in, I do not like? No offense to the guy, but there's just something about him...It's like, I want to punch him when I hear his voice. Why is it that certain people have that effect on other people? -As someone else has mentioned, somewhere, most 4e promos don't actually explain why 4e is good. They just highlight the flaws and problems of previous editions (THAC0, "Grapple", etc.) This is another example of that. Yup...I also like that before D&D was for nerds...but now it is 'cool'... Also with the way things seem to be set up( new abilities every level, different tricks with weapons, the increase in number to immediate actions and reactionary abilities,etc) and either new splat books(or just new PhB) adding to this...we be praying for the old grapples rules... Also I never really had problems with grapple...I mean really all it is 1) Oppenent gets a AoO if it hits the attempt fails 2) Make a to hit roll vs touch AC 3) Contested roll between them using BAB+Str+Size Mod+Misc ... 4)If successful has serveral other options from pinning, doing unarmwed damage, etc. It took me longer to type this then it actualy takes to play it out in game. It isn't that complex...maybe people are just getting lazy...
BadCatMan 12-22-07, 08:40 PM	This seems to be standard tactic for WotC these days: bagging the old editions to make 4e look better in comparison, without really giving a lot of info about 4e. I think the same goes for how they're treating FR: "Too many gods!", "So many uber-high level NPCs!", "It's too big and deep and complicated!", "You don't want that crappy old setting, do you?"
Lord Karsus 12-23-07, 12:47 AM	I think the same goes for how they're treating FR: "Too many gods!", "So many uber-high level NPCs!", "It's too big and deep and complicated!", "You don't want that crappy old setting, do you?" -Yeah, that's pretty much it. Dissing your own products, even in retrospect, is a bit silly.
MarkusTay63 12-23-07, 11:24 PM	Its how politicians win elections - They really have nothing good to say about themselves, so they slander the hell out of the other guy. Both sides try to make the other look worse, while neither says anything positive about what they will do when elected. It's a shame that WotC has resorted to this tactic - 3e was an awesome milestone and shouldn't be knocked. Thats a pretty poor way of convincing us that 4e will be good, IMHO. The toon reminds me of the cartoon The Fairly Odd Parents... the gnome is hyper-active Timmy and the Tiefling is Vicky the 'evil babysitter'. But I suppose I should be glad they left the 'French' accent out of this one... they must be saving it for the one on Halfling Culinary schools. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 02:32 AM	Its how politicians win elections - They really have nothing good to say about themselves, so they slander the hell out of the other guy. -If a politician has something to be proud of in their history, they are not going to not mention it, however (ie, Rudy with crime and 9/11, Hillary with having "White House experience", etc.)