Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Castor Quinn 07-19-03, 09:34 PM	Gotrex has raised a very good issue in another discussion we were having about the elemental lords. In 2E Faerun and Toril were part of the much bigger Great Wheel, but in 3E Realmspace has been severed from the larger cosmology and left as an isolated cosmos. Many higher-level concepts in 2E were dependent on the interrelation between the different planes and worlds in the Great Wheel view of the universe, and it makes sense that the new, simplified (??) cosmology may have changed things around quite a bit, and even left some holes scattered around. We have already identified one hole: the elemental lords were, under the Great Wheel, consider multi-world gods, and so they were Greater Gods by virtue of being worshipped across multiple planes and worlds and regions of the Great Wheel. However severed from the Great Wheel the status of Greater God can possibly be seen as incongruous for the elemental lords who now, possibly, have few mortal worshippers. There are ways to get around this of course, and a detailed discussion of this can be found in the Elemental Lords discussion over in Faerunian Deities forum. But has anyone else noticed any changes or any holes left by the new cosmology?
Gotrex 07-19-03, 09:53 PM	another hole that was brought up on the old WotC forums is the blood war in the new cosmology the legions of the bateazu and the Ta'nnari would need to travel through the prime material plane in order to reach each other. also there is the origins of races that has not been explained to my knowledge (races such as Gnomes and elves traveled from other crystal spheres to FR) also spells from other worlds such as mordenkainens spells reaching Faerun in his many travels from greyhawk to faerun i could go on for quite a while listing this stuff that has been discussed multiple times in the past on these forums
AvonRekaes 07-19-03, 11:46 PM	Well in 3e realms, I think they said that dwarves, elves, and non-indigenous races came in by Portal spells, not necessarily spelljammer traveling. I just use the Great Wheel in my game, but with different outer planes when necessary.
Alac Luin 07-19-03, 11:53 PM	Maybe I'm wrong agien, but the elemental plains were never part of the great wheel of the outer plains. They were the inner plains. Astral plane to travel to outer, etheral plane to travel to inner.... Couldent things travel thru say the elemental plane of air?...
Castor Quinn 07-20-03, 12:22 AM	You'll all have to forgive me if I'm raising a tired old question. I couldn't find it discussed on this forum, and this is my first FR forum, so if all this is elsewhere just give me a link. I've also never understood why the new cosmology forces demons and devils to travel through the prime material to reach each other. Why can't they travel through the ethereal or shadow planes that surround the prime material? And what about the astral?
Alac Luin 07-20-03, 01:00 AM	You did raise an old question, but it's never tired:) I believe all conections from the "outer Planes" in the new FR cosmology lead thru the material plane(Toril). Hence the other persons coment that the blood war would be fought on Toril The only other conection is that Convetion center for the gods (forgive me I cant remember it's name). Cant speak about the astral myself, but it seams to me the game designers gave toril more of a conection to the plane of Shadow. The soon? to be released FRplayer Guide I think has more info on the cosmology. I guess the game desiners just thought the current FR cosmology was just an easier way to explain the Mulhardin pantion and how in an old adventure, people from anothr world killed Lolth and she was still alive on Toril. Sorry, gonna stick to the great Wheel myself.
Alac Luin 07-21-03, 01:49 AM	I realized a day late that my last post really didnt have anyting inteligable to add to the disscution, sorry:embarrass