Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BrianCritchley 11-30-04, 10:13 PM	now this ain't a anti-ebberon tirade but ebberon is getting the lion's share of the web articles these days and I'm getting sick of ebbergon ebberon ebberon only ebberon! I really ewish we'd get more FR stuff then JUST the realms lore articles. anyway this isn't a big anti-ebberon complaint but more a wishing for more FR stuf... ahh hell just ignore me I need to rant.
Klive 11-30-04, 10:19 PM	just wanted to say that i understand what you mean. I guess eberon is fresh new, so it needs a bit of a boost to get the machine going (for what I think). I'm sure they haven't forgot about Fr, and they never will.
EmeraldFox 11-30-04, 10:51 PM	You know, you don't have to listen to the Eberron articles.
Cole Deschain 11-30-04, 11:19 PM	Heck, some of us don't read any of the articles.
BrianCritchley 12-01-04, 03:12 AM	I don't read the ebberon articles, thats sortta the point. although I see two new realms related articles just came up......
Tempus665 12-01-04, 03:15 AM	That must mean the people higher up have heard your plea ;)
Kid SixXx 12-01-04, 09:58 AM	now this ain't a anti-ebberon tirade but ebberon is getting the lion's share of the web articles these days and I'm getting sick of ebbergon ebberon ebberon only ebberon! I really ewish we'd get more FR stuff then JUST the realms lore articles. anyway this isn't a big anti-ebberon complaint but more a wishing for more FR stuf... ahh hell just ignore me I need to rant.. What the hell is the matter with you people? So far, we Eberron folks have 3 modules in Dungeon, 2 official WoTC modules, and and an entire 2 sourcebooks for our setting... Whoopie! What a library! The regular Dragonshard articles add much needed fluff to a setting that has barely been around for a year, while the FR has been fleshed out for over two decades. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing where the pendulumn swings so heavily into Eberron's favor. Keith Baker is dedicated to supporting the setting he created and is a prolific writer, while Ed is not as prolific as he used to be. We can't help it if Keith feels the obligation to work his fingers to the bone to provide the rescources needed so we can have fun with the Eberron setting. If you want more FR fluff from Ed, you should visit Greenwood's boards more often. I've heard he puts up tons of stuff there.
Kuje31 12-01-04, 12:12 PM	Keith Baker is dedicated to supporting the setting he created and is a prolific writer, while Ed is not as prolific as he used to be. We can't help it if Keith feels the obligation to work his fingers to the bone to provide the rescources needed so we can have fun with the Eberron setting. If you want more FR fluff from Ed, you should visit Greenwood's boards more often. I've heard he puts up tons of stuff there. Two things. 1) Ed is very prolific and he writes or works on at least 4 novels a week, 2 or 3 sourcebooks a week, and countless newpaper articles, web articles, editings for others, etc. Plus while still working in the library. 2) They are not Ed's boards and he doesn't have a account there only his player does. Also he goes there to answer and promote FR because it's in his contract and most importantly he does so because he loves talking to the fans and answering FR questions. And before someone starts ranting or arguing with me, let me make it clear that I am not complaining about the Eberron articles because, well forget the rest of this sentence because it got me in trouble earlier in the week. :P
Kid SixXx 12-01-04, 12:33 PM	1) Ed is very prolific and he writes or works on at least 4 novels a week, 2 or 3 sourcebooks a week, and countless newpaper articles, web articles, editings for others, etc. Plus while still working in the library. I stand corrected, but my rebuttle still stands. If people want more FR fluff, then they should visit the places where Ed hangs out & where he's known to post FR fluff, instead of using the dev timetable as an excuse to complain about Eberron. I'm sure there was tons of complaining on the boards when the re-introduced FR nabbed the lion's share of resources from Greyhawk, which was supposed to be the D&D core setting & had been promised heavy support regardless of whatever the more popular setting was.. The FR "We Ain't Got" threads were funny a while ago, but now it's getting tiresome. People complaining about lion's shares of resources haven't put a stack of FR books beside a stack of Eberron books lately, have they? 2) They are not Ed's boards and he doesn't have a account there only his player does. Also he goes there to answer and promote FR because it's in his contract and most importantly he does so because he loves talking to the fans and answering FR questions. If Ed engages FR people in FR discussion and answers their questions, all the more reason to hang out there when things run dry at this website. Certainly Google isn't that hard to use. And before someone starts ranting or arguing with me, let me make it clear that I am not complaining about the Eberron articles because, well forget the rest of this sentence because it got me in trouble earlier in the week. :P I didn't see it, but I guess some things are best left unwritten, lest they hijack threads and devolve them into senseless flame wars, like the FR cosmology discussions always wind up being. ;)
The White Sorcerer 12-01-04, 05:00 PM	now this ain't a anti-ebberon tirade but ebberon is getting the lion's share of the web articles these days and I'm getting sick of ebbergon ebberon ebberon only ebberon! Yeah! They're devoting way too many resources to Ebberon. I don't know why they bother with garbage like Ebberon. Ebberon sucks! :mad: They should do more Eberron articles instead. :P
Edymnion 12-01-04, 05:03 PM	Lets see, Faerun stuff has been around for decades, and there's enough Faerun material to fill entire rooms with. Eberron has been around for a couple of months, and just now has two hardbacks to rub together. Faerun has more support material to draw upon than any other game setting ever made anywhere. Eberron is brand new, and has next to nothing. So yeah, we can get back to new stuff for Faerun just as soon as Eberron catches up ;)
ENHenry 12-01-04, 05:06 PM	To everything there is a season, and a time for every campaign under WotC. A time for Khorvaire, a time for Faerun, a time for Vol, a time for Fzoul, a time for Elminster to smoke on his pipe, a time for Red Wizards, I swear it's not too late...
jonthegm 12-01-04, 05:15 PM	Lets see, Faerun stuff has been around for decades, and there's enough Faerun material to fill entire rooms with. Eberron has been around for a couple of months, and just now has two hardbacks to rub together. Faerun has more support material to draw upon than any other game setting ever made anywhere. Eberron is brand new, and has next to nothing. So yeah, we can get back to new stuff for Faerun just as soon as Eberron catches up ;) If I rub those two hardbacks together enough, I feel funny inside.
Kid SixXx 12-01-04, 05:27 PM	To everything there is a season, and a time for every campaign under WotC. A time for Khorvaire, a time for Faerun, a time for Vol, a time for Fzoul, a time for Elminster to smoke on his pipe, a time for Red Wizards, I swear it's not too late... Damn you, ENHenry! :banghead: I am going to hum that stupid song the entire drive home!!!! :w00t:
Gurv 12-01-04, 05:31 PM	Its odd. When I go to the archives for FR articles, it shows 50 links to articles. It shows 63 links to Eberron articles in their archives. So it does seem that they are putting more into Eberron. But wait. What is this at the top of the FR screen? "50 Most Recent Realms Articles"?! And the furthest back is dated 4/21/04...while Eberron's archive only goes back to 12/16/03. Is my math wrong, or does that mean that they've had nearly 4 months difference to gain 13 articles? Years of archived content. Six FR Article Categories. Six FR Retired Articles! Oh yeah. Its unfair. Forgotten Realms is losing pretty bad to Eberron's three Article Categories. And Eberron Under Glass might as well be called "How not to ruin Eberron like Forgotten Realms" anyway. I mean, it doesn't even count. Maybe when Eberron starts retiring articles, someone will hear your whining. But hey, if you can't deal with a problem, maybe Elminster will come save you!
greaterbaatezu 12-01-04, 06:39 PM	Perhaps what my bretheren in "Defend the Realms" mean to say is: We'd like to see some module series come out. New stuff. I'm not sure if Wizards is aware, but alot of us DMs have to WORK. Sometimes two jobs just to get by. We still like to game and all, but our time is a commodity. We don't have the TIME to write it all ourselves. That's where modules come in.
Greyson 12-01-04, 09:33 PM	There is no need to be afraid of a profusion recent articles for the Eberron Campaign Setting. The setting is new and there is a commercial incenitve for WotC to promote it. Neither the setting nor the associated Web articles will bite. I enjoy the articles for both settings. I really don't see any pressing reason to rant and rave. Good gaming.
GreenDay 12-01-04, 09:49 PM	I dont see what the fuss is about. I use stuff from the Eberron articles for my Forgotten Realms group. It's very easy to do.
saethar 12-01-04, 10:07 PM	I think the fuss is about the fact that FR has had one (yes just one, City of the Spider Queen) published adventure module since 3.0 came out (what 4+ years now?) where as eberron will have 4+ before it is even a year old. Kinda sucks for FR DM's, more so since alot of the recent Dungeon modules have been eberron (or greyhawk - which are somewhat easier to move to FR). This doesn't mean that eberron shouldn't have it's stuff, it is new after all, but it still sucks for FR players/dm's. Saethar :b:
Kid SixXx 12-01-04, 10:27 PM	I think the fuss is about the fact that FR has had one (yes just one, City of the Spider Queen) published adventure module since 3.0 came out (what 4+ years now?) where as eberron will have 4+ before it is even a year old. Search the old articles. WoTC doesn't do super-adventures like CotSQ anymore because they don't seem to be cost effective. Eberron probably won't get super-adventures either. We'll get just enough modules to get a good foothold, and then that will be that. Keith Baker is a good soul, but he can't be the one man Eberron factory forever. Sooner or later, the well will run a bit dry, & we'll all be in the same boat.
Ranaku 12-01-04, 10:36 PM	Perhaps what my bretheren in "Defend the Realms" mean to say is: We'd like to see some module series come out. New stuff. I'm not sure if Wizards is aware, but alot of us DMs have to WORK. Sometimes two jobs just to get by. We still like to game and all, but our time is a commodity. We don't have the TIME to write it all ourselves. That's where modules come in. Then you have to make a choice or two. A-You can wait and do nothing but write up a new plot for your next adventure in the Realms in your free time or devote your free time to another hobby or just be patient in waiting for more focus to swing back at Forgotten Realms. B-You can rehash old adventures with new twists. Maybe combine two or three. Or even combine an FR module with an Eberron mod. C-You can play Eberron while you wait. D-You can b____ about not getting new stuff while the baby of the family gets all the attention. Acting thusly, you resemble a five year old with a new-born baby sibling and get precisely nothing done, except to make yourself and others bitter. As you can tell choice D is fairly inefficient. The others are fairly logical and sane choices. Choose wisely. Being a MWDA player and a regular on mwrealms.com, I can safely say that many gamers seem to be very much like five year olds. Don't be a five year old!
BrianCritchley 12-01-04, 11:20 PM	hey when I mentioned sick of eberron I mostly said that because I'd like to see more realms lore, I swaer every update all I see is something about miniatures or ebberon. I mean really as far as I can see there's only 1 realms article going on right now. in truth I thought wyrms of the north and realms personalities had died the death of inattention
saethar 12-01-04, 11:20 PM	Then you have to make a choice or two. A-You can wait and do nothing but write up a new plot for your next adventure in the Realms in your free time or devote your free time to another hobby or just be patient in waiting for more focus to swing back at Forgotten Realms. B-You can rehash old adventures with new twists. Maybe combine two or three. Or even combine an FR module with an Eberron mod. C-You can play Eberron while you wait. D-You can b____ about not getting new stuff while the baby of the family gets all the attention. Acting thusly, you resemble a five year old with a new-born baby sibling and get precisely nothing done, except to make yourself and others bitter. As you can tell choice D is fairly inefficient. The others are fairly logical and sane choices. Choose wisely. Being a MWDA player and a regular on mwrealms.com, I can safely say that many gamers seem to be very much like five year olds. Don't be a five year old!Personally I would go with B, the rehashing that is. I bought eberron, and at least one adv mod, and will probably buy more. But the system is different enough (action points and such make a bigger impact than first anticipated) that a whole sale conversion is probably more trouble than it's worth. Not to mention that the "feel" of the two settings is very different... While playing Eberron may seem like a reasonable choice - it isn't when you have 2+ years invested in a FR campaign. Saethar :b:
greaterbaatezu 12-01-04, 11:32 PM	I know Ebberron seems cool, but let's look at this realistically (lol, yeah in a fantasy game, right?) there are things in the Ebberron campaign that're OKAY for a player to run. A half golem? Half undead? Neither is overpowering, but COME ON. How is a half golem going to be accepted in normal society? What fun is it to run the character that sits in the gutter while the rest of the pcs are getting knighted and given landed titles? Is it worth the extra points of strength and other abilities? No... not for role playing purposes. Plus, the political infrastructures of Ebberron reek of Gayhawk. THIS country is run by Dragons, THIS country is run by Quatls (good aligned snake creatures from maztican mythology). Care to explain to me how there's so many of that EXCEEDINGLY rare creature as to run and entire COUNTRY? Ebberron, simply put, is a monty haul campaign world that hands power on a silver platter to the PCs. Therefor, you hand near epic level power to new gamers who don't know how to play, and don't deserve it. Needless to say, I'm slanted heavily (along with the largest chunk of WotC's cash supply**) towards the realms. I'm ALOT more inclined to purchase forgotten realms material than I am another cookie cutter campaign world. I think I just summed it up for myself. I'm really tired of the cookie cutter garbage that's been coming out lately. Time for you guys to hook up with Ed, Cook, and others and really make something special again. Something worth my dollar. Otherwise, not one more penny is coming out of my pockets for Wizards of the Cash. Not one. ** By this I mean your paying customers. Your regular, long term money supply. Cookies don't impress me, I delete them. Good, affordable programming does.
Cole Deschain 12-01-04, 11:45 PM	Speaking as a Ravenloft gamer- hah hah hah. ;)
Neofish 12-02-04, 12:23 AM	I know Ebberron seems cool, but let's look at this realistically (lol, yeah in a fantasy game, right?) there are things in the Ebberron campaign that're OKAY for a player to run. A half golem? Half undead? Neither is overpowering, but COME ON. How is a half golem going to be accepted in normal society? What fun is it to run the character that sits in the gutter while the rest of the pcs are getting knighted and given landed titles? Is it worth the extra points of strength and other abilities? No... not for role playing purposes. Plus, the political infrastructures of Ebberron reek of Gayhawk. THIS country is run by Dragons, THIS country is run by Quatls (good aligned snake creatures from maztican mythology). Care to explain to me how there's so many of that EXCEEDINGLY rare creature as to run and entire COUNTRY? Ebberron, simply put, is a monty haul campaign world that hands power on a silver platter to the PCs. Therefor, you hand near epic level power to new gamers who don't know how to play, and don't deserve it. Needless to say, I'm slanted heavily (along with the largest chunk of WotC's cash supply**) towards the realms. I'm ALOT more inclined to purchase forgotten realms material than I am another cookie cutter campaign world. I think I just summed it up for myself. I'm really tired of the cookie cutter garbage that's been coming out lately. Time for you guys to hook up with Ed, Cook, and others and really make something special again. Something worth my dollar. Otherwise, not one more penny is coming out of my pockets for Wizards of the Cash. Not one. ** By this I mean your paying customers. Your regular, long term money supply. Cookies don't impress me, I delete them. Good, affordable programming does. Wow.! Your misinformed... Thier are no viable half-golem, half-undead PC races, thier still MM templates. Thier are no Countries Run by Dragons, they live on thier own continent, minding thier own business. Quatls don't run anything either. Eberron isn't even geared for Epic level play. Don't deserve to play epic level, grow up.? *Puts hand to ear* "Do you hear that?" "The Winds of change are howling..." "The Realms are now long Forgotton" "It's time for a new campaign, a better campaign..." "It's time for Eberron...'
Emirikol 12-02-04, 12:30 AM	Yea! Jh Greyhawker, so stop yer' *****in'
Ranaku 12-02-04, 12:34 AM	I know Ebberron seems cool, but let's look at this realistically (lol, yeah in a fantasy game, right?) there are things in the Ebberron campaign that're OKAY for a player to run. A half golem? Half undead? Neither is overpowering, but COME ON. How is a half golem going to be accepted in normal society? What fun is it to run the character that sits in the gutter while the rest of the pcs are getting knighted and given landed titles? Is it worth the extra points of strength and other abilities? No... not for role playing purposes. Plus, the political infrastructures of Ebberron reek of Gayhawk. THIS country is run by Dragons, THIS country is run by Quatls (good aligned snake creatures from maztican mythology). Care to explain to me how there's so many of that EXCEEDINGLY rare creature as to run and entire COUNTRY? Ebberron, simply put, is a monty haul campaign world that hands power on a silver platter to the PCs. Therefor, you hand near epic level power to new gamers who don't know how to play, and don't deserve it. Needless to say, I'm slanted heavily (along with the largest chunk of WotC's cash supply**) towards the realms. I'm ALOT more inclined to purchase forgotten realms material than I am another cookie cutter campaign world. I think I just summed it up for myself. I'm really tired of the cookie cutter garbage that's been coming out lately. Time for you guys to hook up with Ed, Cook, and others and really make something special again. Something worth my dollar. Otherwise, not one more penny is coming out of my pockets for Wizards of the Cash. Not one. ** By this I mean your paying customers. Your regular, long term money supply. Cookies don't impress me, I delete them. Good, affordable programming does. What half-golems? What half-undead? Where are you pulling this out of? The ECS book? I haven't seen anything to that effect. The dragons run one continent. Populated by dragons. Coatls are a dying breed and control no nation. Once, they were allies of the dragons, when the dragons controlled the planet and the common races were barbarians cavorting in loincloths. Nowhere does a race control an entire nation that is not populated by those who are primarily not of their own race, except for Riedra, which is under the iron fist of the Inspired. Finally, I'm really curious as to where you get the idea that Eberron is a cookie-cutter setting. Forgotten Realms is more 'cookie-cutter' than Eberron. Finally, speaking of realism, let's see how they stack up.... High fantasy and adventure? Forgotten Realms: Check. Eberron: Check. Swashbuckling action? Forgotten Realms: Nope. Eberron: Check. Psychological reality and depth? Forgotten Realms: Nope. Eberron: Check. Granted that is biased. And Forgotten Realms does have it's moments (but only in the better novels), but it's not designed to incorporate those elements. And speaking of affordable: I'm up to date on all of the fluff for Eberron by buying two books! Unlike Forgotten Realms which I would have gotten into before Eberron except for the entry cost of getting in. One campaign source book, a book on races, a book on monsters, ad nauseum. That is not 'affordable'. And it's not up-to-date, either. Eberron is. And Eberron was designed for 3.5. As for whether or not you spend your money on Eberron is up to you and I don't care whether or not you do, to be frank. But you ought to keep this in mind: when they're done with Eberron the game designers will have plenty of expirience for when they bring Forgotten Realms to be fully compatible with 3.5.
Kuje31 12-02-04, 12:46 AM	Finally, speaking of realism, let's see how they stack up.... High fantasy and adventure? Forgotten Realms: Check. Eberron: Check. Swashbuckling action? Forgotten Realms: Nope. Eberron: Check. Psychological reality and depth? Forgotten Realms: Nope. Eberron: Check. I was going to stay out of this thread but I had to jump in here and ask: ARE YOU KIDDING ME? FR doesn't have a swashbuckler feel? Gees what setting are you looking at then? Sea of Swords, Sea of Fallen Stars, etc! It doesn't have psychological reality and depth? Right that's why it's packed with these type of things. Please explain what you mean by this please. And for your information FR is fully 3.5 since the Player's Guide was issued and all the new FR sourcebooks are 3.5. As have the monsters via a web enchancement.
Brastan 12-02-04, 01:02 AM	Your right Cole Deschain. WERE'S MY BIRTHRIGHT! DRAKSUN! DRAGONLANCE! SOME OTHER SETTING... that i can't remember the name of. Come on man look at FR's product list and Eberrons. Also don't forget that Web Enhancements and internet stuff only really started back in 2000. If there had been major web articles back when FR started you would have had them. BrianCritchley, if you need new adventures so bad get Dungeon. Every two mouths you get a set of nice new adventures ready for you to rip apart and make Forgotten Realms compatible (if they aren't already). However here's something we can all complain about. More well written generic adventures. The original 3.0 adventure modules were hideous to wield, like an Huge Dagger with out Monkey Grip. Perhaps what we need on new years is A Forgotten Realms Eberron cross over holiday bash. (Also note the people in Eberron play FR as far as we can tell. There's a Players Guide to Faerun in sitting on a table in one of the pictures in the Sharn Source Book here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_gallery/84581.jpg).) So Bothers from across the Shadow Planes will you join with us to craft a good will holiday adventurer that will threaten the fabilc of D&D as we know it. Perhaps even unraveling existence as far as Grayhawk, Darksun, and Ravenloft? :D Nothing brings people together like a good old multi-verse mosh pit. :w00t: What do ya say, have and little :pint: fallowed by a good :fight!: for the fate of the Mulit-verse?
Ranaku 12-02-04, 01:04 AM	I was going to stay out of this thread but I had to jump in here and ask: ARE YOU KIDDING ME? FR doesn't have swashbuckler feel? Gees where have I been living then? Sea of Swords. Sea of Fallen Stars, etc! Since I've never heard of any of those places, I assume that you have either been living in Canada or Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure which one is more likely, though. Oh, wait! Those are in Faerun, aren't they? Well, welcome back to reality! But seriously, if you define swashbuckling action as being running around on rickety water-borne vessels made of wood (among other things), then yes, Forgotten Realms has swashbuckling, the substance, at least. But it lacks the style of swashbuckling. Of swinging from one rope to another and finally repelling down into a chamber, longsword flashing. Eberron has that in spades. Forgotten Realms has that on rare occasions. Think Zorro, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Chronicles of Riddick with Eberron and think the Conan the Barbarian starring the Governator with Forgotten Realms. And that's the difference in 'swash-buckle'-iness. It doesn't have psychological reality and depth? Right that's why it's packed with these type of things. Please explain what you mean by this please. OK, sure. If you define psychological depth as good only being good and evil only being evil. If black and white is psychological depth. Then, yes, Forgotten Realms has psychological depth. And for your information FR is fully 3.5 since the Player's Guide was issued and all the new FR sourcebooks are 3.5. Then that means that Eberron is 'better' because the game designers had expirience from 3.5-izing Forgotten Realms!
Ranaku 12-02-04, 01:15 AM	Your right Cole Deschain. WERE'S MY BIRTHRIGHT! DRAKSUN! DRAGONLANCE! SOME OTHER SETTING... that i can't remember the name of. Come on man look at FR's product list and Eberrons. Also don't forget that Web Enhancements and internet stuff only really started back in 2000. If there had been major web articles back when FR started you would have had them. BrianCritchley, if you need new adventures so bad get Dungeon. Every two mouths you get a set of nice new adventures ready for you to rip apart and make Forgotten Realms compatible (if they aren't already). However here's something we can all complain about. More well written generic adventures. The original 3.0 adventure modules were hideous to wield, like an Huge Dagger with out Monkey Grip. Perhaps what we need on new years is A Forgotten Realms Eberron cross over holiday bash. (Also note the people in Eberron play FR as far as we can tell. There's a Players Guide to Faerun in sitting on a table in one of the pictures in the Sharn Source Book here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_gallery/84581.jpg).) So Bothers from across the Shadow Planes will you join with us to craft a good will holiday adventurer that will threaten the fabilc of D&D as we know it. Perhaps even unraveling existence as far as Grayhawk, Darksun, and Ravenloft? :D Nothing brings people together like a good old multi-verse mosh pit. :w00t: What do ya say, have and little :pint: fallowed by a good :fight!: for the fate of the Mulit-verse? :angel: I'm up for that. :pint: I'll share drinks with Vol and Lolth. :tiphat: Give and recieve presents from ambassadors from Mithral Hall and Sharn. :thinks: Enjoy philosophical debates between Elminster and an Inspired. :angelhide And then I'll laugh insanely when Daelkyr number nine rips Drizzt Do'Urden to shreds in the post-drunken-state bar brawl.... :ghosted: :evillaugh
Kuje31 12-02-04, 01:17 AM	Since I've never heard of any of those places, I assume that you have either been living in Canada or Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure which one is more likely, though. Oh, wait! Those are in Faerun, aren't they? Well, welcome back to reality! But seriously, if you define swashbuckling action as being running around on rickety water-borne vessels made of wood (among other things), then yes, Forgotten Realms has swashbuckling, the substance, at least. But it lacks the style of swashbuckling. Of swinging from one rope to another and finally repelling down into a chamber, longsword flashing. Eberron has that in spades. Forgotten Realms has that on rare occasions. Think Zorro, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Chronicles of Riddick with Eberron and think the Conan the Barbarian starring the Governator with Forgotten Realms. And that's the difference in 'swash-buckle'-iness. OK, sure. If you define psychological depth as good only being good and evil only being evil. If black and white is psychological depth. Then, yes, Forgotten Realms has psychological depth. This is going to get me in trouble but: YOU ARE SO MISINFORMED ABOUT THE SETTING. Now please learn what FR is about before you spew more words here that are so off base. FR doesn't have swashbuckling, I repeat? Okay right. That's why there are many places where you have that. Let's see we got Waterdeep. Tethyr. Calimshan. The Sea of Fallen Stars, etc. Yeah right FR is sooooooooo black and white. ROFL. That's why there are good elven liches or vampires that are neutral with good tendencies or other lesser undead that are not evil or good drow (which EVERYONE complains about) and shades of grey all over the place. Please give me a break and your two replies is so wrong on so many levels it's not even amusing.
saethar 12-02-04, 01:18 AM	Since I've never heard of any of those places, I assume that you have either been living in Canada or Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure which one is more likely, though. Oh, wait! Those are in Faerun, aren't they? Well, welcome back to reality! But seriously, if you define swashbuckling action as being running around on rickety water-borne vessels made of wood (among other things), then yes, Forgotten Realms has swashbuckling, the substance, at least. But it lacks the style of swashbuckling. Of swinging from one rope to another and finally repelling down into a chamber, longsword flashing. Eberron has that in spades. Forgotten Realms has that on rare occasions. Think Zorro, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Chronicles of Riddick with Eberron and think the Conan the Barbarian starring the Governator with Forgotten Realms. And that's the difference in 'swash-buckle'-iness.Um, you have all of those with FR, you just aren't spoon-feed them. Oh, and if you want want Swashbuckling - one word for you "Al-Qadim" - the original swashbuckling setting for D&D, and straight from FR too. OK, sure. If you define psychological depth as good only being good and evil only being evil. If black and white is psychological depth. Then, yes, Forgotten Realms has psychological depth.Kids these days. Forgotten realms has never been about pure good, against pure evil. It's about adventure, and adventurers are not good, forget your alignment - you're looting corpses and robbing graves. Two words sum up Eberron man - "Dino-Riding Halfing"... freaking Power Rangers ruined everything for everyone. Saethar :b:
GothicDan 12-02-04, 01:19 AM	But seriously, if you define swashbuckling action as being running around on rickety water-borne vessels made of wood (among other things), then yes, Forgotten Realms has swashbuckling, the substance, at least. But it lacks the style of swashbuckling. Of swinging from one rope to another and finally repelling down into a chamber, longsword flashing. Eberron has that in spades. Forgotten Realms has that on rare occasions. Those rickety water-borne vessels made of wood are what made the "swashbuckling" genre, you know. Second of all, who says you can't swing from one tope ro another and finally repel down into a chamber, longsword flashing, in FR? As to FR having it on rare occasions? No campaign setting intrinsically "has" anything. It merely has the tools to have things, and it's the DMs to make the setting or break it. FR simply has a lot more tools than Eberron at the moment because it's older and more detailed. OK, sure. If you define psychological depth as good only being good and evil only being evil. If black and white is psychological depth. Then, yes, Forgotten Realms has psychological depth. Uh. Right. Ignore that good mind flayer priest of Oghma... And that good archlich wizard in Selune's temple... And that really darned popular good Drow running around... FR has been, above all else, the premier Prime Material setting for breaking typical D&D norms in terms of alignment. And the reason why they couldn't do it more often is, in part, most likely due to TSR's Code of Ethics. Good had to be portrayed as shining, virtuous, unblemished, and superior. If Eberron had been formed in 2E, it would have had to follow the same Code of Ethics. And, just to repeat this and make sure that I stand out among some who might be considered "FR Junkies": FR is my third favorite setting, so I better not be accused of fanboying over it. In descending order of Liking-ness. Planescape, Dragonlance (2E version), FR, Athas, Greyhawk, Greyhawk, Birthright, Zakhara, Maztica
warlockco 12-02-04, 01:19 AM	But seriously, if you define swashbuckling action as being running around on rickety water-borne vessels made of wood (among other things), then yes, Forgotten Realms has swashbuckling, the substance, at least. But it lacks the style of swashbuckling. Of swinging from one rope to another and finally repelling down into a chamber, longsword flashing. Eberron has that in spades. Forgotten Realms has that on rare occasions. Think Zorro, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Chronicles of Riddick with Eberron and think the Conan the Barbarian starring the Governator with Forgotten Realms. And that's the difference in 'swash-buckle'-iness. Excuse me?!? I have ran and played in games that are like all of the above. I have seen a DM run an Eberron campaign like the Conan the Barbarian type setting you are putting down. Yes, Eberron might be "geared" more towards a Swashbucker setting, but it all comes down to the Play Style of the DM and their Players. Then that means that Eberron is 'better' because the game designers had expirience from 3.5-izing Forgotten Realms! Why would it be better? Only reason 3.5E came out was because it was found too many things were broken. And since the Realms is the Flagship of the Fleet it was given an update and has been running on the same rules as the rest of the fleet. Whereas Eberron came out after the Revision was done.
saethar 12-02-04, 01:21 AM	FR doesn't have swashbuckling, I repeat? Okay right that's why there are many places where you have that. Let's see Waterdeep. Tethyr. Calimshan. The Sea of Fallen Stars, etc.Sembia man... don't forget Sembia. Damn guard blades. Ooh, and Cormyr, what with their problems with Sembia and them assassins. Fun Stuff. oh, almost forgot Raven's Bluff.... etc... Saethar :b:
Kuje31 12-02-04, 01:24 AM	Sembia man... don't forget Sembia. Damn guard blades. Ooh, and Cormyr, what with their problems with Sembia and them assassins. Fun Stuff. oh, almost forgot Raven's Bluff.... etc... Saethar :b: That's what the etc was for. :)
saethar 12-02-04, 01:26 AM	That's what the etc was for. :)Yeah, but I'm cruel sometimes and decided to drive the point home some more ;) Saethar :b:
warlockco 12-02-04, 01:29 AM	Yeah, but I'm cruel sometimes and decided to drive the point home some more ;) Saethar :b: Those Moneygrubbers from Sembia paid ya? Didn't they? :P
Klive 12-02-04, 01:49 AM	Since I've never heard of any of those places, I assume that you have either been living in Canada or Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure which one is more likely, though. Oh, wait! Those are in Faerun, aren't they? Well, welcome back to reality! But seriously, if you define swashbuckling action as being running around on rickety water-borne vessels made of wood (among other things), then yes, Forgotten Realms has swashbuckling, the substance, at least. But it lacks the style of swashbuckling. Of swinging from one rope to another and finally repelling down into a chamber, longsword flashing. Eberron has that in spades. Forgotten Realms has that on rare occasions. Think Zorro, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Chronicles of Riddick with Eberron and think the Conan the Barbarian starring the Governator with Forgotten Realms. And that's the difference in 'swash-buckle'-iness. This is coming from a canadian, so OF COURSE, don't take this seriously,obviously we are all living in some dark cave next to a bunch of cow. Hmm there's nothing like some slightly gay pirate to get started with the swashbuckling action right! Cmon, if you want swinging from one rope to another and engaging in monosyllabic insult while crossing steal then it's all up to your imagination. You make the quest, you make the occasions, As simple as that. The Forgotten Realms has a vast archive of info that helps Dms create those kind of adventure. The difference between an Johnny Depp and Arnold adventure depends on the roleplaying of the whole group, not on the setting itself. OK, sure. If you define psychological depth as good only being good and evil only being evil. If black and white is psychological depth. Then, yes, Forgotten Realms has psychological depth. I think most of the important NPCs of Fr have a deep psychological path that is reflected in most novels or manuals. There is far more then just black and white philosophie in all this. Then that means that Eberron is 'better' because the game designers had expirience from 3.5-izing Forgotten Realms! There's no winner in that useless contest. Eberron is a fresh new world with new growing adventures and Forgotten Realms is a strong base setting which has still much to give for all Dms and Pcs. ( kinda geek but hey, who's not) :)
Ranaku 12-02-04, 02:06 AM	This is coming from a canadian, so OF COURSE, don't take this seriously,obviously we are all living in some dark cave next to a bunch of cow. Since I'm an American, the thing about Canada was supposed to be humorous and indicitive of how little Americans know about Canada. Hmm there's nothing like some slightly gay pirate to get started with the swashbuckling action right! Cmon, if you want swinging from one rope to another and engaging in monosyllabic insult while crossing steal then it's all up to your imagination. You make the quest, you make the occasions, As simple as that. The Forgotten Realms has a vast archive of info that helps Dms create those kind of adventure. The difference between an Johnny Depp and Arnold adventure depends on the roleplaying of the whole group, not on the setting itself. The word isn't 'gay', it's 'effeminate'. And kudos for the understanding of what makes the biggest difference in game play. It's just that Eberron seems to offer more incentive. But a Rogue or Swashbuckler in FR running up walls and such would certainly be unique in FR and not as much (among PCs and NPCs with action points/character classes). I think most of the important NPCs of Fr have a deep psychological path that is reflected in most novels or manuals. There is far more then just black and white philosophie in all this. More kudos. But my point was, again, that it isn't common. In Eberron the psychology is more common. There's no winner in that useless contest. Eberron is a fresh new world with new growing adventures and Forgotten Realms is a strong base setting which has still much to give for all Dms and Pcs. ( kinda geek but hey, who's not) :) I take your smile to indicate that you (mostly) understood what I was saying. :surrender And with that I go, now. And I would like to point out that you certainly seem to have a better grasp of what I was getting at then anyone else. Seey'all at the Eberron meets Forgotten Realms thing. If it ever happens. And then we can dance :dancin:, drink :pint:, teach each other understanding of each others multiverses :teach:, and rationally debate the virtues and vices of each :thinks:, which would then lead to anger :hoppingma, and a large bar fight of many casualties :ghosted:. And the next day we can share coffee :whatsthis and make light-hearted jokes :rimshot:. (Am I abusing the smilies? Well, I don't know. None of them have complained about it....)
Kuje31 12-02-04, 02:11 AM	The word isn't 'gay', it's 'effeminate'. And kudos for the understanding of what makes the biggest difference in game play. It's just that Eberron seems to offer more incentive. But a Rogue or Swashbuckler in FR running up walls and such would certainly be unique in FR and not as much (among PCs and NPCs with action points/character classes). More kudos. But my point was, again, that it isn't common. In Eberron the psychology is more common. Again these statements are false. FR since its 1st printed in 1987 has always been about shades of grey. There are hundreds of NPCs that are shades of grey or have more then just "they are evil or good." And no actually, again, swashbuckling isn't that rare in FR. Sorry but your statement is plainly false.
Klive 12-02-04, 02:17 AM	Can we all just be friend plz... :bigeyes: Seriously, i think we all made our point here. Let's not turn this thread into an open war.
Kuje31 12-02-04, 02:18 AM	Can we all just be friend plz... :bigeyes: Seriously, i think we all made our point here. Let's not turn this thread into an open war. Hehe think it already has been. But it's also been reported so it's up to the mods to edit if they feel like it. :)
Klive 12-02-04, 02:19 AM	you are just pur evil man. PUR EVIL!!! :gah:
saethar 12-02-04, 02:28 AM	you are just pur evil man. PUR EVIL!!! :gah:I thought that was why we liked him... Saethar :b:
Klive 12-02-04, 02:45 AM	I thought that was why we liked him... Saethar :b: True, that and the way he can pulverize much of our arguments.( as seen above) :D
Kuje31 12-02-04, 03:11 AM	True, that and the way he can pulverize much of our arguments.( as seen above) :D Not everyone seems to like me doing that to them or thier arguements, or so I've been told..... :) And hey Saethar I don't know if that's a compliment or not.... :) And for the record to the other posters who went over to the Eberron boards and linked this thread earlier in the day. That really and truly is sad and WOTC has tried, many times in the past, to end such tactics. :) So with that in mind these flame fests that span two different boards really are breaking the CoC.
saethar 12-02-04, 03:46 AM	Not everyone seems to like me doing that to them or thier arguements, or so I've been told..... :) And hey Saethar I don't know if that's a compliment or not.... :)I still remember the conversation we had about elves a couple of months ago - it was lots of fun (and less flamey than this one). And for the record to the other posters who went over to the Eberron boards and linked this thread earlier in the day. That really and truly is sad and WOTC has tried, many times in the past, to end such tactics. :) So with that in mind these flame fests that span two different boards really are breaking the CoC.Which is why us nice FR people don't venture off our boards ;) Saethar :b:
Kuje31 12-02-04, 04:01 AM	I still remember the conversation we had about elves a couple of months ago - it was lots of fun (and less flamey than this one). Which is why us nice FR people don't venture off our boards ;) Saethar :b: Hmm I don't recall the elven converstation but it must not have been that heated since I don't recall it. :)
The White Sorcerer 12-02-04, 06:49 AM	Two words sum up Eberron man - "Dino-Riding Halfing" Misunderstanding the other setting is not a fault of Eberroneers alone, I see.
Kid SixXx 12-02-04, 09:22 AM	And for the record to the other posters who went over to the Eberron boards and linked this thread earlier in the day. That really and truly is sad and WOTC has tried, many times in the past, to end such tactics. :) So with that in mind these flame fests that span two different boards really are breaking the CoC. That would be me that posted the thread to the Eberron board. As for your sentiment, then all I have to say is perhaps the FR-based "Gr Getting Sick Of Eberron" threads should be placed on the Eberron boards to prevent cross-board wars, and so that said threads can receive a proper rebuttle, instead of creating a venue for a venting party in one's home camp. If you have a problem with the Eberron setting, bring it to the Eberron boards and the thread-linking tactics will magically cease. If you state your case in a constructive, respectful manner, most likely you're beef will be discussed in a constructive, respectful manner. Hostility, sadly but expectedly, will most likely be met with hostility returned in kind. If you look at the situation closely, we're all in the same boat, as both camps want to see more done for their setting. It's a shared sentiment, but unlike FR people, we've only got so much resource to work with. Keith Baker does his best, but he's only one guy, albeit a phenominal guy. He can only provide so much. Which is why us nice FR people don't venture off our boards ;) Perhaps you should, as it would save us the trouble of hunting you down when threads like this show up. ;) As you can see, we Eberron supporters had no problems coming here to the FR board to discuss this, even when no one seemed to want to do us the courtesy of bringing this matter up on our board. :D Unless you've got major problems with your web browser or your mouse, I don't see why threads like these should invariably show up here, and never on the board of the setting you've issues with.
Mystery Man 12-02-04, 09:50 AM	It's the whole "fresh" and "new" billing that makes me want to retch everytime I pick up an Eberron book and find something in some section or another that is so JUST LIKE the Realms that it seems to have been ripped from the pages and reprinted. Eberron may be a nice setting but there is nothing "fresh" or "new" about it. And I am never going to shut up about either. :) "But the Emperor has nothing on at all cried a little child." ~ Hans Christian Anderson
Kid SixXx 12-02-04, 09:56 AM	It's the whole "fresh" and "new" billing that makes me want to retch everytime I pick up an Eberron book and find something in some section or another that is so JUST LIKE the Realms that it seems to have been ripped from the pages and reprinted. Eberron may be a nice setting but there is nothing "fresh" or "new" about it. And I am never going to shut up about either. :) Friend, there is nothing new or fresh about any setting at the core. It's the other elements that determine that. At their hearts, the settings are as common or vanilla as any other, and the window dressing is what attempts to differentiate them. If there are some plagerized specifics you'd care to mention in a PM to me or Keith Baker aka Hellcow, I'm sure you'll get a constructive response. Otherwise I'd have to conclude that you're overgeneralizing. Gary Gygax said the same things about the FR at it's inception that you're saying about Eberron now. If you hit up EGG's boards and give him some time, the spirit of FR hate will return for yet another 9 page thread. The Scarlet Brotherhood vs. Red Wizards thread war was quite entertaining. Two red-adorned villanous organizations that rule a nation and enforce a caste system on their society based on racial privelege and exceptional aptitude in a particular class. One uses martial arts while the other uses magic.. Startling difference that is... :rolleyes: But like you, I just overgeneralized. If I'd bothered to look a bit closely, I'd have noted that the nuts & bolts of both organizations makes them as different as night and day. Anyway, my point is not to insult, but show that such commonalities are ever present no matter what setting you look into because the genre is heavily cliched. If you look for common source, you'll find it and if you're partial to one setting over another, you'll come to the conclusion without researching the themes, you'll assume that the latter material was lifted.
Mystery Man 12-02-04, 10:12 AM	Friend, there is nothing new or fresh about any setting at the core. It's the other elements that determine that. To that retort I always say they weren't billed as such. I find nothing in the Eberron setting (which I have btw) to which in the introduction that says "tone and attitude" set it apart. I do find so much of the "same but different" that is very disappointing. I think the straw the broke the camels back for me is when I open to the section and see "City of the Dead", I look at my Waterdeep box set with a sad nod. The book is now collecting dust on my shelf. Now, I'm not above getting very upset when FR hate comes my way and certainly don't blame anyone for wanting to defend their favorite setting. But do not come on here and say the Eberron has this (case in point Swashbuckling) and FR doesnt when its had it for the last 20 years +! It's ignorance and makes you and the setting look rediculous. Edit: And for the record I will say that the "Gr, getting sick of Eberron" thread was a bit out of line. I've always stated that the Eberron setting can use all the lore it can stand.
Kid SixXx 12-02-04, 10:18 AM	I think the straw the broke the camels back for me is when I open to the section and see "City of the Dead", I look at my Waterdeep box set with a sad nod. The book is now collecting dust on my shelf. There is a City of the Dead in a couple of Conan novels that consists of a giant necropolis. Aragorn recruits ghosts from a City of the Dead to help rescue Minas Tirith in Lord of the Rings. Both of these works predate the FR and Eberron. What's your point? There are so many interwoven commonalities in fantasy that they are nearly impossible to mention in one thread. Perhaps if you'd read closer, you'd have noted that the Waterdeep City of the Dead is a gigantic graveyard, whereas the Eberron City of the Dead is where the undead ancestors of the Aerendi Elves actually reside, and aid their living decendants in matters of governship. Now, I'm not above getting very upset when FR hate comes my way and certainly don't blame anyone for wanting to defend their favorite setting. But do not come on here and say the Eberron has this (case in point Swashbuckling) and FR doesnt when its had it for the last 20 years +! We came here because no one came to us.
Mystery Man 12-02-04, 10:29 AM	There is a City of the Dead in a couple of Conan novels that consists of a giant necropolis. Aragorn recruits ghosts from a City of the Dead to help rescue Minas Tirith in Lord of the Rings. Both of these works predate the FR and Eberron. What's your point? My point is I know that, but when I read the words "fresh" and "new" I want to scream. There was nothing in previous editions where anyone was saying that. That is my point!! "But the Emperor has nothing on at all cried a little child." ~ Hans Christian Anderson Do ya get it yet?
Mystery Man 12-02-04, 10:34 AM	Gary Gygax said the same things about the FR at it's inception that you're saying about Eberron now. If you hit up EGG's boards and give him some time, the spirit of FR hate will return for yet another 9 page thread. I would point out that unlike GG (while a superb world builder and dnd writer, is a pompous ass) you don't see Ed Greenwood ranting all over the internet about how they stole this or that from his setting. That's where I come in. :cool:
nyysjan 12-02-04, 10:39 AM	it is new it is fresh but everything that is build today isbuild on the ruins of yesterday show me a campaign setting that is like eberron as a whole not a small detail here or there and as for the waterdeep city of the dead is it filled with the ancestors of the elves that still walk the land and advice their children
Kid SixXx 12-02-04, 10:41 AM	My point is I know that, but when I read the words "fresh" and "new" I want to scream. There was nothing in previous editions where anyone was saying that. That is my point!! If it's marketing that annoys you, that's not really a substantive issue. Both settings are being marketed by the same company, and most likely by the same marketing department which has logically changed in staff and in strategy over previous editions. I can understand your annoyance if you feel that the Eberron marketing is a coercive ploy to somehow force you to buy the product line, or seeks to undermine the fan base of the FR setting, since the company is indeed competing with itself. All I can reply to that is simply to continue to support the setting you like best, even to the exclusion of others if that's what makes you feel better.
Kid SixXx 12-02-04, 10:44 AM	I would point out that unlike GG (while a superb world builder and dnd writer, is a pompous ass) you don't see Ed Greenwood ranting all over the internet about how they stole this or that from his setting. That's where I come in. :cool: Keith Baker also conducts himself with a great deal of decorum. Our settings are fortunate to be the brainchildren of such stand-up guys. :cool:
GothicDan 12-02-04, 11:36 AM	I think the main point of this thread was to simply vent. It wasn't meant to be a big discussion; the original poster didn't cite anything about the actual content of the setting itself. So, simply put, we should avoid conflicts and stay in our own corners. And don't get me started on what the South has to say about those of us who hold taht opinion, because the response - as a forewarning - will be ugly. So, simply put, those of us who want to vent can vent - on our own boards. When the Sigil in 3E FR thread was brought over to the Planescape board, the poster was told - pretty unanomously - to take it to the FR board, because that's where it belonged, because it was ultimately a gripe about an FR-based thing. This is the same case - the poster as is griping about FR getting too few web articles in comparison to Eberron.
Gurv 12-02-04, 12:01 PM	I know Ebberron seems cool, but let's look at this realistically (lol, yeah in a fantasy game, right?) there are things in the Ebberron campaign that're OKAY for a player to run. A half golem? Half undead? Neither is overpowering, but COME ON. How is a half golem going to be accepted in normal society? What fun is it to run the character that sits in the gutter while the rest of the pcs are getting knighted and given landed titles? Is it worth the extra points of strength and other abilities? No... not for role playing purposes. Plus, the political infrastructures of Ebberron reek of Gayhawk. THIS country is run by Dragons, THIS country is run by Quatls (good aligned snake creatures from maztican mythology). Care to explain to me how there's so many of that EXCEEDINGLY rare creature as to run and entire COUNTRY? Ebberron, simply put, is a monty haul campaign world that hands power on a silver platter to the PCs. Therefor, you hand near epic level power to new gamers who don't know how to play, and don't deserve it. Needless to say, I'm slanted heavily (along with the largest chunk of WotC's cash supply**) towards the realms. I'm ALOT more inclined to purchase forgotten realms material than I am another cookie cutter campaign world. I think I just summed it up for myself. I'm really tired of the cookie cutter garbage that's been coming out lately. Time for you guys to hook up with Ed, Cook, and others and really make something special again. Something worth my dollar. Otherwise, not one more penny is coming out of my pockets for Wizards of the Cash. Not one. ** By this I mean your paying customers. Your regular, long term money supply. Cookies don't impress me, I delete them. Good, affordable programming does. Wow. Try again. Its okay to run half-golems and half-undead? I have never seen a reference to either of these things in Eberron, although there is FR novel out with a half-golem main character. Last I checked, drow were considered a little excessive for use as a PC race in Eberron. I can only assume you are completely confused about the warforged, which are LA +0, last time I looked. And how are they going to feel when the others are being knighted and given land titles? Hopefully, they will feel the same way a drow would feel when he gets accepted into a society that normally rejects him. Political infrastructures...hmm. I don't know much about Greyhawk's so I can't compare. But as for how a continent can be run by a species as rare as Dragons, I'll let you in on the secret: you just shot down your own "cookie-cutter" argument by assuming that they are rare like they are in your run-of-the-mill setting. The Dragons of Argonnessen prevent outsiders from approaching continent, and nothing is known of their society; the appearance that dragons are rare is caused by the fact that they don't do weird things like provoke lesser beings by raiding their castles. And couatl do not have their own country. No one has recorded seeing one in about 800 years. That sighting produced a major religion. I am a little confused by the monty-haul aspect of Eberron comment. The setting is designed with low level characters in mind, and strongly suggests that everyone other than the PCs and the most capable of NPCs use the NPC classes. And the fact is that Eberron uses the 3.5 rules for how common magic is, without then trying to pretend that it is rare. Low level magic is not rare, as the Rules Are Written. What they do is then take that level of magic and reasonably place it in the setting, instead of struggling with the illogic of a world where a small town might have 5 people able to cast 1st level spells but still behave like they are in medieval England.
Kid SixXx 12-02-04, 12:06 PM	So, simply put, we should avoid conflicts and stay in our own corners. And don't get me started on what the South has to say about those of us who hold taht opinion, because the response - as a forewarning - will be ugly. I've always been a member of the "Dont Sing It, Bring It" school, so I'm admitedly confrontational, and I'm not afraid of "ugly." If there are issues with Eberron, bring 'em to the Eberron board. If you fire initial salvos from your own bulwarks, don't be surprised when opposing troops rush your castle walls with siege engines at the ready in response. I also don't like acting ugly, nor do I want to provoke anyone else to act ugly, so your point is duly noted. We're all gamers that enjoy settings produced by the same company, so any in-fighting is pointless and conter-productive. You never know when we'll be sitting at the same booth at Gen Con attempting to game our way out of some precarious trap some lousy DM set for us. In response to your latter comment, I retort that there are constructive ways to vent or rant other than posting a thread that says "Gr Getting Sick of Eberron" as if to imply that it's Eberron's direct fault that the FR hasn't gotten any new articles lately. After all, nearly the same day this thread was posted, the new Wyrms of the North article and the write-up for Dauphal, the Dangerous Bull showed up, so it's not like our campaign is screwing with the output of the free FR material that shows up on the website. BTW, speaking of Dauphal I plan on swiping the Hold the Line feat from Shining South. Between that & Phalanx Fighting from Lords of Darkness, the Karnathi skeletal legions will be formidible indeed!!!! :evillaugh ;) In all honesty, I agree with the sentiment of BrianCritchley's initial post as Eberron material is not pumped out nearly fast enough for my liking, and I'm sure we'd all love to see an increase in output of official source materials for our respective campaigns. OTOH, when the writing mill gets slow in our camp, I don't post "Gr, FR Gets All The Sourcebooks, We Only Got 2" threads on our boards, as if to imply that the FR somehow get's preferential treatment on product release. Feel free to peruse our boards to verify this. The company does it's best with the manpower it still has, and our best course of action is to be patient, spend the interim time juggling ideas around on these boards, and offering our thoughts / opinions to others who are about to start up their own campaigns.
WizO_BigSister 12-02-04, 01:07 PM	I was going to spinkle this thread with loads of Fairy Dust Of Sweetness And Light™ but I've run out. Seems I've used it all up on all the other Eberron vs FR threads that ended up in flames, so I am afraid I have to press the Big Red Button and close this flame fest down.