Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chloramantis 10-01-07, 10:17 AM	Hey, I know that a lot of the artwork in GHotR has been reused, but one in particular is very interesting to me. On page 130, under "1276: Rebuilding of the Citadel", there are 6 figures, who are they or what group of the 9 city-states that jointly rebuilt the Citadel of the Raven do they represent. Zhentil Keep- Hillsfar- Phlan- Melvaunt- Mulmaster- Sulasspryn- Thentia- Voonlar- Yulash- The guy in the back in red and black looks to me like he's from Zhentil Keep and maybe a prist of Bane. The figure on the right, maybe female?, looks like an Imaskari? The scribe on the ground looks like he may be Mulan or from the south of Faerun? The woman on the far left looks like an old Rashemi witch? The dwarf? And , the Druidic guy with his left hand up? Any guesses???
MarkusTay63 10-01-07, 01:57 PM	ALL of the art was reused - none of it is new. So don't try to place the figures - they were all from somewhere else originally. There is already at least one thread about the GHotR artwork.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-01-07, 03:50 PM	And sometimes the results are pretty ridiculous and nonsensical, such as with the warforged...
MarkusTay63 10-01-07, 04:04 PM	Brian explained that the pic concerning Jhaamdath was NOT the tidal wave - it was the caption that was incorrect. My personal favorite - on pg. 141: "This is what Gondegal would look like, if he used magic to change his appearance". That one is just so 'out there' that I can only just shake my head. :nonono:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-01-07, 04:09 PM	Brian explained that the pic concerning Jhaamdath was NOT the tidal wave - it was the caption that was incorrect. My personal favorite - on pg. 141: "This is what Gondegal would look like, if he used magic to change his appearance". That one is just so 'out there' that I can only just shake my head. :nonono: Yup, that's a real knee-slapper all right... I really like the GHotR, but I don't know if I can bring myself to love it, partly because of what happened with the art. I know the book had a limited budget, but it is what it is.
Chloramantis 10-02-07, 11:58 AM	ALL of the art was reused - none of it is new. So don't try to place the figures - they were all from somewhere else originally. There is already at least one thread about the GHotR artwork. If it was ALL reused, where can I find the original?
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 03:24 PM	Excellent Question. Perhaps we can turn this thread around and ask everyone to identify the original sources? Make it like a contest of sorts. :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-02-07, 07:19 PM	I think the art was lifted from numerous sourcebooks. Some pictures are from Power of Faerun and Champions of Valor. And obviously, the warforged picture (which is supposed to represent a dragon:rolleyes: ) must be from some Eberron sourcebook.
Gray Richardson 10-02-07, 07:32 PM	The maps are fantastic though! And the maps are all original! While art is pretty, and makes a book look nicer, it is really not as important as the lore inside, and Grand History of the Realms has wonderful lore within! Honestly, I would have been just as happy if they left out the art and used the space for more lore! Personally, I am glad they spent the largest part of the art budget on the new maps. Because the maps are truly amazing. I crave to know such things as where all the ancient elf nations were located during the Crown Wars, what the borders of ancient Jhaamdath looked like before the flood, and what the unified continent of Faerūn looked like before the Sundering split it apart. Even though they have recycled some art, the art they have chosen is pretty nice and for the most part compliments the lore it goes with. Sure they got a couple little captions wrong, and it certainly does seem like they put the wrong picture in one spot. But who really cares about all that? It's a couple of minor nitpicks on an otherwise awesome book! ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-02-07, 07:38 PM	Even though they have recycled some art, the art they have chosen is pretty nice and for the most part compliments the lore it goes with. Sure they got a couple little captions wrong, and it certainly does seem like they put the wrong picture in one spot. But who really cares about all that? It's a couple of minor nitpicks on an otherwise awesome book! ;) Well, I have some other nitpicks with the book besides just the art--I like the book and it's invaluable, but I don't love it. Nevertheless I'm glad to have it, and in a way it's all a bit poignant because GHotR might well be the last "new" FR sourcebook I ever buy.
Xaean 10-02-07, 07:51 PM	But who really cares about all that? It's a couple of minor nitpicks on an otherwise awesome book! ;) I care. While it's not problem to re-use some older artworks, it's still dissappointing if the whole book contains only recycled illustrations. Furthermore the illustrations should be appropriate, which can hardly be said about a warforged, a cleric of the Sovereign Host or an Annointed Knight posing as Dove Silverhand. The only new artworks were the cover and the maps - they were fine, no doubt - but not enough for a book that marks the transition from the old world into the new one. I still don't regret buying the book, but as far as artwork goes I'm not quite satisfied with it.
MerrikCale 10-02-07, 08:58 PM	And sometimes the results are pretty ridiculous and nonsensical, such as with the warforged... you can say that again sister. warforged. yucky
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 10:55 PM	I found many of the pics come from Eberron books (just look throught the artwork section of this site), but I STILL can't place that pic the OP is talking about. The one looks like one of those Deathless Elves, but it's in none of the Eb sourcebooks. I also found the picture with the were-crocodile funny - "Although it appears that this guy is winning, he is actually losing" None of this, BTW, has absolutely anything to do with the incredible job that Brian did on the original reference source - it remains to this day my favorite source for research. And all the vingettes and maps in the print book make it money well spent While art is pretty, and makes a book look nicer, it is really not as important as the lore inside, and Grand History of the Realms has wonderful lore within! Honestly, I would have been just as happy if they left out the art and used the space for more lore!I agree - they could have left out ALL of the pictures and given us more maps and lore. Thank god we didn't get that space-wasting Drizzt story. :rolleyes:
SgtAnjay 10-03-07, 02:23 PM	The pic on page 130 is from "Ghostwalk". Its of a group of wizards who are led by a sentient magical staff.
Markustay 10-03-07, 05:13 PM	Good call, SgtAnjay! :D I knew I saw that pic before, but I didn't even think to look through that tome.
Blade_Shadow 10-04-07, 07:34 AM	honestly, i wish that there had been less art but that art was new. and a warforged! come on wotc what were you thinking?
Gray Richardson 10-04-07, 07:09 PM	It was clearly just an error that cropped up in layout. Obviously a picture of a dragon was meant to go there and somehow they inserted the wrong file. A regrettable, but very minor error. It is obviously no big deal. Jeez, you would have thought people would have dropped it by now! I mean, let's say you wrote one of your best papers ever for school, and your teacher gave you an "F" because you inserted one little graph in the wrong place. That would seem pretty unfair right? People are blowing that one layout error way out of proportion. It's a pretty picture anyway. Just assume it is a dragon that has cloaked himself in an illusion or polymorphed himself into a warforged for the purposes of disguise. :dragon:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-04-07, 11:03 PM	You know, I pored over this book for a few hours last night, and I think I want to revise my opinion a bit. I think I do love it, because I love sourcebooks that are actually interesting to read! Granted, I still have some small issues with it--for example, there's no entry for Elminster's birth (I checked--and there are birth entries for other characters) yet there are entries for pretty insignificant things, like Wulfgar returning to Icewind Dale. As for the picture of the warforged? Well, let's face it, it is funny to talk about.:)
Dark Wizard 10-05-07, 12:36 AM	I didn't get an "F," but I got a "D." And a chance to edit it ( I also managed a handful of minor spelling edits) I got an A afterwards. Don't make mistakes and expect people not to call you on it. It just happens that on a forum these things get discussed repeatedly and it is pretty funny, very odd of all pictures that could have been accidentally put in it was a warforged.
Iakhovas 10-05-07, 09:25 AM	Granted, I still have some small issues with it--for example, there's no entry for Elminster's birth (I checked--and there are birth entries for other characters)Wow. I'm surprised that slipped through the cracks as well. Feel free to pencil the following into your copy of the Grand History. :P 212 DR Year of the Awakening Magic Elminster, son of Prince Elthryn and Amrythale Goldsheaf of Athalantar, is born.
GothicDan 10-05-07, 12:49 PM	I mean, let's say you wrote one of your best papers ever for school, and your teacher gave you an "F" because you inserted one little graph in the wrong place. That would seem pretty unfair right? People are blowing that one layout error way out of proportion. That would certainly be knocked down a letter grade in a physics paper. And no, I don't think standards should be different. :)
GothicDan 10-05-07, 12:49 PM	Also: I <3 you Brian.
Markustay 10-05-07, 01:38 PM	You are such a **** lately Dan. :P Wow. I'm surprised that slipped through the cracks as well. Feel free to pencil the following into your copy of the Grand History. :P Can I just add a bit to it? 212 DR Year of the Awakening Magic Elminster, son of Prince Elthryn and Amrythale Goldsheaf of Athalantar, is born, and soon after his life began to suck. ;) :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-05-07, 05:40 PM	Wow. I'm surprised that slipped through the cracks as well. Feel free to pencil the following into your copy of the Grand History. :P 212 DR Year of the Awakening Magic Elminster, son of Prince Elthryn and Amrythale Goldsheaf of Athalantar, is born. Thank you! I might put it on a post-it note.:D
NexxusDM 10-06-07, 08:32 AM	I just have to vent a little... Why did they have to represent Rhyester (Cleric of Lathandar) as an Elven Evangelist of Pelor. Echo the feelings about the Warforged and all the other "graphics gaffs". It's stuff like this that just makes me shake my head at WoTC. Otherwise, I ADORE the book. It's easier to carry around and read than my laptop screen. But why does WoTC have to tinge something so great with their own laziness (not wanting to create new or look for more appropriate art), or cheapness (not wanting to buy new art). Congratulations, and thank you for the hard work Brian (aka Iakhovas) in putting all of this together. I hope WoTC wan't too cheap with your cheque! ;) On a bit of a side note, has anyone seen, or created an "overlay" map of sorts. One that would show the ancient empires AND their cities over the current Faerunian map? Just to more accurately place ruins which haven't yet been "discovered".