Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dielzen 06-04-07, 12:46 AM	First of all, I don't mean this as a knock on the author or anything, but, assuming I have the PDF file from the author's site, why would I buy this book? What does it offer new, beyond the newest happenings in the realms? I should state that I like the PDF file and I use it periodically, but I don't see why I should pay the $ for a book version of the same product, so I'm hoping for someone to say "hey, not only does it have the PDF it also has....."
Old Sage 06-04-07, 01:32 AM	Dielzen, I would suggest you take a look through this scroll at Candlekeep:- http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8788
Gray Richardson 06-04-07, 02:10 AM	If you are a Realms Fan you need to buy a Grand History of the Realms. Here's why: 1) It's going to be beautiful. You will enjoy owning a physical copy of the book and having it as part of your collection. 2) It will have more stuff in it than the PDF. There will be a lot of extra added lore that was not in the PDF. More history, both old, ancient and recent, with added material to take the timeline up to the most current year. New material by Ed Greenwood, essays from Elminster, and also an exclusive short story by R.A Salvatore I believe. 3) There will be a few secrets revealed in the book, lore that has not previously been known, not even in the PDF. 4) And the very most important reason, the reason that every Realms fan should buy this book, is that this book is what the Realms is all about! It will be chock full of glorious lore, not prestige classes, not new spells, not new feats, it is a History book about our favorite campaign setting! As such it is a remarkably unmarketable book, and a huge risk for the Forgotten Realms team to even put out. I have no idea how they got permission from Hasbro to even suggest putting such a book out there. There are probably bean-counters somewhere just chomping at the bit to have this book fail so that they never have to publish another one. It is a grand experiment. I bet they are fearing and thoroughly expecting to take a bath on such a book. That is why you must buy it! Buy 3 for your friends. Buy them as Christmas presents for every gamer you know. How this book sells is going to determine what kind of FR books WotC publishes in the future. People say they don't want adventures, they want sourcebooks filled with lore. Well this book is exactly that. This is the book that Realms fans on the board have said they want. And if you expect WotC to ever put out anything like it ever again, then it has to sell well. We as fans have to support it or WotC will view it as a failure and will put out other kinds of books instead. If you love the Forgotten Realms, then you should support this book. Simple as that. If it sells well then you can expect WotC to take more risks and put out similar books in the future. If it does poorly it may affect the kind of books you see them publish far into the future. The good thing is that this book will be awesome and will be well worth the money for anyone who buys it. It is a win-win situation for all involved. If you buy this book, more than any other Realms book that has been published up til now, you are voting for the Realms with your pocket book. And that is a vote that WotC will listen to. And you will be well rewarded for your purchase!
Krash 06-04-07, 09:17 AM	Because it would make me happy?:) Umm, maybe that's not such a brilliant reason. I'd say that you'd want to buy it for - speaking personally - a first mention of Narathmault, or Dun-Orthass, or a mention of what one of the symbols of Cormyr was before the Purple Dragon, or the names of the Wizard-Kings of Amn, or what the damaged kiira in the possession of Laeral tells you about an ancient elven realm, or what the Dark Fissure was, or ... well, a host of other things that flowed from my pen alone. Other contributors added a whole heap more. This isn't a regurgitation - it's a celebration of the history of the Realms. Be a part of its splendor. -- George Krashos
Alediran 06-04-07, 09:35 AM	Because of what George Richard said is why I'm going to buy it in Amazon, I want to have more books like it, and, if it's succesfull it could be the opening path for other books, like the Elves of Faerûn that LK, MarkusTay, me and others are creating.
msatran 06-04-07, 12:01 PM	Well, I'm buying 20 copies. That's one for every one of my players, two to keep, and three to save as spares, for new players or replacements. I know that will make Krash happy, but he already knew I was going to do that. Support the Realms the way it was meant to be. Buy this book.
MarkusTay63 06-04-07, 12:09 PM	Because (thanks to me ;) ) it will have at least a tiny bit of info concerning the lost realm of Tsharoon? Also, everything Grey and Krash have said. If you are a fan of the Realms, then this is a MUST. If this does well, then we will see more lore concerning the Realms we all love so dearly. If it does not do very well (I doubt that), then we will be stuck with 95% crunch mega-adventures 'till the end of time. Think of it as someone holding a gun to your head... BUY THIS BOOK OR ELSE you will never see the Realms alive again. Just kidding... :P But think of the original PDF as a preview, just a basic outline, and now it is finally fleshed-out in all of its Realmsalicious Glory. And as far as a reference goes, it is the second file I start up on my computer each morning, right after photoshop. It is the ONLY reference I use on a daily basis, and since my computer went down I am suffering extreme withdrawal. :(
selunatic2397 06-04-07, 12:09 PM	Where can I buy a copy of this book? I am all for keeping Krash happy! :D
Gray Richardson 06-04-07, 07:51 PM	The book is not out just yet, but will be soon! A Grand History of the Realms was originally set for a November release date, but it appears it may be released much earlier. Amazon now lists it with a September release date. :w00t:
Stigger 06-04-07, 07:58 PM	Just in time for my birthday... awfully considerate of WotC to take that into account. :D
MarkusTay63 06-04-07, 08:08 PM	My Birthday is Aug 30th... any chance I can get an advance copy by a few days? :D I've been a good boy this year, Santa, honest.... :rolleyes:
Alediran 06-04-07, 08:12 PM	Mine is Sep 21th
Iakhovas 06-04-07, 10:26 PM	I’m very proud of the work I did on the PDF, but that product was the result of one man sitting in his basement late at night compiling timelines in his spare time. The print Grand History, however, is the result of countless hours of collaboration between myself, Ed Greenwood, Eric L. Boyd, George Krashos, and Tom Costa. This was the dream team for this product as far as I was concerned. I only wish I had the pleasure to work with Steven Schend, as I’ve admired his work for years. :bow: So you already have the PDF and want to know why you should purchase the sourcebook? There are too many goodies to list them all but I’ll mention some of the features that I find particularly compelling about the print version of the Grand History. • Fans of the creator races will find juicy new lore. • Want to know more about the Sundering? Or what the planet looked like before this catastrophic event? • Curious about the Crown Wars? Want to see the first official map of the elven nations which fought the 2nd and 4th crown wars? • Dark elf fans will enjoy new lore on ancient Ilythiir and the Descent of the Drow. • The lost empires of Jhaamdath and Imaskar are fleshed out further than in any previous sourcebook, including a fantastic map for each. • Updated lore on Netheril, their enslavement of gnomes and the fate of General Matick. • Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. • You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Or how the Tears of Selûne were formed? • Dawn Cataclysm. :incog: • Ed Greenwood's name is on the cover for a reason. Ok some of you are still unimpressed? Ancient history is great and all but you’re wondering how the Grand History will help your campaign set in the present. How about a month by month break down of every major event from the Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR) through the Year of Risen Elfkin (1375 DR). Those of you that don’t read every novel can now use these events in your campaign if you so choose. Of course there is much more than that, but I’ve probably already revealed more than I should have. :gel: I look forward to meeting many of you at GEN CON this summer where I'm sure I'll be able to answer questions in more detail.
msatran 06-04-07, 10:50 PM	Sounds like a great DM book, but one which requires your players to restrain their knowledge checks. Just what I was looking for. :) Actually, the thing I'm most looking forward to is the month by month. How much is this thing again?
varyar 06-04-07, 10:54 PM	So you already have the PDF and want to know why you should purchase the sourcebook? There are too many goodies to list them all but I’ll mention some of the features that I find particularly compelling about the print version of the Grand History. Buh. Want now! I really, really can't wait for this to come out.
GothicDan 06-04-07, 10:54 PM	Brian.... I think I love you. Platonically.
MerrikCale 06-04-07, 11:00 PM	I’m very proud of the work I did on the PDF, but that product was the result of one man sitting in his basement late at night compiling timelines in his spare time. The print Grand History, however, is the result of countless hours of collaboration between myself, Ed Greenwood, Eric L. Boyd, George Krashos, and Tom Costa. This was the dream team for this product as far as I was concerned. I only wish I had the pleasure to work with Steven Schend, as I’ve admired his work for years. :bow: So you already have the PDF and want to know why you should purchase the sourcebook? There are too many goodies to list them all but I’ll mention some of the features that I find particularly compelling about the print version of the Grand History. • Fans of the creator races will find juicy new lore. • Want to know more about the Sundering? Or what the planet looked like before this catastrophic event? • Curious about the Crown Wars? Want to see the first official map of the elven nations which fought the 2nd and 4th crown wars? • Dark elf fans will enjoy new lore on ancient Ilythiir and the Descent of the Drow. • The lost empires of Jhaamdath and Imaskar are fleshed out further than in any previous sourcebook, including a fantastic map for each. • Updated lore on Netheril, their enslavement of gnomes and the fate of General Matick. • Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. • You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Or how the Tears of Selûne were formed? • Dawn Cataclysm. :incog: • Ed Greenwood's name is on the cover for a reason. Ok some of you are still unimpressed? Ancient history is great and all but you’re wondering how the Grand History will help your campaign set in the present. How about a month by month break down of every major event from the Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR) through the Year of Risen Elfkin (1375 DR). Those of you that don’t read every novel can now use these events in your campaign if you so choose. Of course there is much more than that, but I’ve probably already revealed more than I should have. :gel: I look forward to meeting many of you at GEN CON this summer where I'm sure I'll be able to answer questions in more detail. you had me at hello
Dargoth 06-05-07, 12:35 AM	I • You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Hello?!?!?!?!? Finally some more History on Bane, Bhaal and Mykrul!
Stigger 06-05-07, 01:22 AM	*salivates profusely*
BadCatMan 06-05-07, 02:47 AM	I have a theory - we can only have a certain amount of quality Realmslore in any given year. After the relative dearth of Realmslore in the Cormyr/Anauroch/Shadowdale series, it's all going to be jammed into Grand History to make up. Hurrah! All that great stuff. Let me guess, it's going to mention Borem and buddies along with the Dark Three too? :D Will the original GHotR still be updated after this? At least as the skeletal version of the official print version. It would make a good regular update on Realms events.
Pystian 06-05-07, 12:39 PM	• Fans of the creator races will find juicy new lore. • Want to know more about the Sundering? Or what the planet looked like before this catastrophic event? • Curious about the Crown Wars? Want to see the first official map of the elven nations which fought the 2nd and 4th crown wars? • Dark elf fans will enjoy new lore on ancient Ilythiir and the Descent of the Drow. • The lost empires of Jhaamdath and Imaskar are fleshed out further than in any previous sourcebook, including a fantastic map for each. • Updated lore on Netheril, their enslavement of gnomes and the fate of General Matick. • Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. • You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Or how the Tears of Selûne were formed? • Dawn Cataclysm. :incog: • Ed Greenwood's name is on the cover for a reason. Oh. My. Cow. This looks too good to be true. I'm another guaranteed sale.
GothicDan 06-05-07, 01:41 PM	Oh your cow? Fantastic!
msatran 06-05-07, 02:05 PM	Big words from the Bean Bag Chair.
Gelcur 06-05-07, 02:32 PM	Been planning to buy it since I heard of it. I use the PDF pretty much daily, though I have to say I like the fact I can search the PDF so easily and quickly. Are there going to be a lot of new maps?!? Honestly I love the map in Underdark and the the one in Lost Empires. I find myself with those maps spread open whenever I read any history info trying to place events, it gives the history more of a living breathing feel when you can see how cultures migrated etc. The recent events being divided down to monthly increments is great. Are older events ordered chronologically within their year also? What about future historical events, will there be supplements for those?
lavekkia 06-05-07, 03:53 PM	• Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. Will the other minor continents and isled be officially named ? (Myrmydune floats around my mind repeatedly in these days...)
Occam 06-05-07, 03:54 PM	• The lost empires of Jhaamdath and Imaskar are fleshed out further than in any previous sourcebook, including a fantastic map for each. • Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. Woo hoo!
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 04:07 PM	I want this book
The Last Guardian 06-05-07, 05:51 PM	As I don't have the PDF i'm dying to get this book...ok not really dying but close enough. :D If its as good as i think its going to be, it will bump Silver Marches from the number 1 spot of favorite FR product.
Dark Wizard 06-06-07, 12:37 AM	This book could perhaps redeem all the bad FR books of the modern 3e era and perhaps a few of the weaker ones from the 2e days. I eagerly await news of this book selling more than the entire mega-adventure series combined and then some.
customdrapery 06-06-07, 10:33 AM	Count me in. I love the pdf, I use it all the time when I don't want to pour through ten other books to find the date I need. I can't wait for a FR book that's not laden with too many feats that I don't use and too many obscure Prestige Classes. Do we have a more accurate release date besides, September?
Bluenose 06-06-07, 11:48 AM	How "player-friendly" is it? The adventures that are coming out this year are on the list of products I need to avoid, since there's someone planning to run them in my gaming group. At the same time, it sounds like there's lots of lore included that players should perhaps not be privy to. If that's the case, it's another book I'll probably have to avoid. Which means I'll be purchasing precisely 0 Realms products this year. :rolleyes:
MarkusTay63 06-06-07, 12:12 PM	Brian, at least kiss me next time... before getting me all 'sexed-up'! :drool: I knew this would be great, but now I'm having Heart Palapatations. Will there still be a short story by Salvatore? Not that it's needed after all you have said (MAPS!!! :cloud9: ), but I was just curious. That truly is the Dream Team, minus Schend. A shame he couldn't have been in on it as well, but I don't think my heart could have taken it. I already feel I've died and gone to Heaven. ;) @Krash - I know you said you'd try to fit in Tsharoon, but I was wondering if there was going to be ANY mention of the Lost Kingdom of Guge (they were practically neighbors, after all).
Andyr 06-06-07, 04:27 PM	• You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Or how the Tears of Selûne were formed? • Dawn Cataclysm. The book sounds great--to me, these things in particular!
Krash 06-06-07, 08:04 PM	That truly is the Dream Team, minus Schend. A shame he couldn't have been in on it as well, but I don't think my heart could have taken it. I already feel I've died and gone to Heaven. ;) @Krash - I know you said you'd try to fit in Tsharoon, but I was wondering if there was going to be ANY mention of the Lost Kingdom of Guge (they were practically neighbors, after all). Steven might not have had a direct role in the writing but he had a significant indirect role in relation to quite a bit of the new lore and dates that went in. The fans didn't get to see every single thing that flowed from the pen and mind of Steven Schend in the years he was writing FR products ... :) I can't confirm or deny what will be in or won't. With any 'single mention' references, there is the chance that they'll be edited out of the final product on the twin grounds of space constraints (and we've stuffed this book to bursting) and importance. We'll all have to wait and see. -- George Krashos
Krash 06-06-07, 08:09 PM	How "player-friendly" is it? The adventures that are coming out this year are on the list of products I need to avoid, since there's someone planning to run them in my gaming group. At the same time, it sounds like there's lots of lore included that players should perhaps not be privy to. If that's the case, it's another book I'll probably have to avoid. Which means I'll be purchasing precisely 0 Realms products this year. :rolleyes: I think it's as equally player friendly as it is DM friendly. It can give PCs significant assistance in terms of character background, and really bed down their links with their Realms locale/region. Knowledge(local) and (history) will now mean quite a bit and I would think that 'sharp' DMs will use the product to give lists to PCs on those types of knowledge skills about stuff that they do know to help roleplaying (the list being comprised of anything that they would know 'automatically' within their current skill ranking - and would be updated as the skill rank increased). Well, that's what I would do for my players if I was DMing a Realms campaign. Plus, it's just going to be fun to read and immerse yourself in. This is a book for the fans, whether they play or they DM. -- George Krashos
captaincarot 06-07-07, 06:00 AM	I can't confirm or deny what will be in or won't. With any 'single mention' references, there is the chance that they'll be edited out of the final product on the twin grounds of space constraints (and we've stuffed this book to bursting) and importance. We'll all have to wait and see. -- George Krashos well as you will already have them in electronic form pre publishing time, is there any chance that these other not quite so juicy little tidbits might turn up as some sort of web extension to the book? or would you just hold on to them incase it sells how it should so you can stick them in the folow up to it.
Bluenose 06-07-07, 09:11 AM	I think it's as equally player friendly as it is DM friendly. It can give PCs significant assistance in terms of character background, and really bed down their links with their Realms locale/region. Knowledge(local) and (history) will now mean quite a bit and I would think that 'sharp' DMs will use the product to give lists to PCs on those types of knowledge skills about stuff that they do know to help roleplaying (the list being comprised of anything that they would know 'automatically' within their current skill ranking - and would be updated as the skill rank increased). Well, that's what I would do for my players if I was DMing a Realms campaign. Plus, it's just going to be fun to read and immerse yourself in. This is a book for the fans, whether they play or they DM. -- George Krashos That makes it sound much more interesting and much more the sort of thing I will want to buy. I particularly like products that give me a feel for how a character from a region would behave and the sort of things they would know, so this sounds like an excellent addition to my library.
Iakhovas 06-07-07, 09:24 AM	Alas no lavekkia, the mysteries surrounding the draconic realm of Myrmidune and the splinter kingdom of Dosticgastos will not be revealed in the GHotR. Will the other minor continents and isled be officially named ? (Myrmydune floats around my mind repeatedly in these days...)
MarkusTay63 06-07-07, 03:33 PM	With all we're getting with this, I'm perfectly happy letting the fan-based community work on the 'unfinished' lands. ;) I DO so like the idea of a Web Enhancement that would include all the goodies that get 'trimmed' from the finished product. PS - no one answered me as to weather the Salvatore story will still be included. Personally, if it means cutting lore, I can live without it.
msatran 06-07-07, 04:56 PM	Maybe the short story is lore related. Given his popularity, even if I don't agree with everything he writes, if I had a "Big Lore Reveal" I wanted to drop on people, I would make him do it.
GothicDan 06-07-07, 05:36 PM	I'd have Ed or Steven do it. ;)
Iakhovas 06-08-07, 09:21 AM	I feel the same way about maps Gelcur and I worked hard to ensure they were included. You can expect to see 5 or 6 new maps in the final product. Are there going to be a lot of new maps?!? Honestly I love the map in Underdark and the the one in Lost Empires. I find myself with those maps spread open whenever I read any history info trying to place events, it gives the history more of a living breathing feel when you can see how cultures migrated etc.
msatran 06-08-07, 01:14 PM	The difference is, Ed and Steven are brilliant. Yes. But Salvatore sells copies. You're not thinking like a marketing executive. And really, that's the problem right now. It's not the bean counters. Bean counters don't actually matter. It's poor choices vis a vis the Realms in the marketing division. Yes, I am an aberration. I buy 20 copies of one book a year. But that does skew the odds a little bit.
GothicDan 06-08-07, 01:22 PM	Sure wish I could buy 20 copies of a book a year! But for some reason I doubt the measly income of a physics tutor could pull that off, especially with things like fraternity dues and the occasional outing to the movies every few.. months. ;)
MarkusTay63 06-08-07, 04:21 PM	MAPS :cloud9: I certainly can't afford twenty copies of a book either, but I know I'll be buying at least two of this one. One for day-to-day use, and one for when the first one falls apart.
Gelcur 06-08-07, 07:43 PM	MAPS :cloud9: That is my feeling exactly. Any info new info on the Nether Scrolls? A few of us were compiling a documented compendium of all the references over at CK. I remember some of the components I added to it were a bit vague in the reference material.
Gray Richardson 06-08-07, 09:12 PM	I tend to spend around 20 bucks a piece (give or take) for those I buy Christmas gifts for. Amazon.com is listing the book for about that price. At that price range The Grand History of the Realms makes for an ideal Christmas present for my friends who are gamers and who enjoy the Realms. Consequently I plan to order about 5 of them to give as Christmas gifts this year. That is, if my friends haven't bought a copy for themselves yet before the holidays roll around. Of course, my first copy I plan to buy from my friendly local gaming store the day it is released. I simply cannot wait to get my hands on a copy!
Questing GM 06-08-07, 09:53 PM	Just out of curiousity, how thick is the book going to be ? Also, will the novel events be put into the GHotR ? They are canon afterall...but i want to see what happens to the Hunter's Blade trilogy treatment in the grand scale of things...
msatran 06-09-07, 01:01 AM	I STRONGLY encourage people to pay the extra money and buy the book from your LGS instead of Amazon. I know this goes against every law of bad economy, but if gaming is to survive, it needs open, attendable forums where gamers can meet, swap stories, and play games. People who go to Amazon and buy the same rulebooks for less hurt small business owners who used to be the cornerstones of this industry. I beg and plead with all of you to bring gaming back to it's roots and support local gaming stores in your area.
Krash 06-09-07, 04:15 AM	Just out of curiousity, how thick is the book going to be ? Also, will the novel events be put into the GHotR ? They are canon afterall...but i want to see what happens to the Hunter's Blade trilogy treatment in the grand scale of things... Yes, novel events are accounted for. -- George Krashos
msatran 06-09-07, 04:08 PM	Now, George, correct me if I'm wrong here, but as of 2008, Novels no longer equal sourcebooks, yes?
Zanan 06-09-07, 04:28 PM	For reasons almost unrelated to my special field of interest with regard to the Realms, I would like to know whether the "War of the Spider Queen" has been included in the book, well up until WotSQ VI that is? On another note, will those who participated in the PDF version also get a mention (no other interests whatsoever) in the book?
Old Sage 06-09-07, 08:12 PM	For reasons almost unrelated to my special field of interest with regard to the Realms, I would like to know whether the "War of the Spider Queen" has been included in the book, well up until WotSQ VI that is?Major events from the Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR) through to the Year of Risen Elfkin (1375 DR) receive a month by month breakdown in GHotR. So, the details surrounding the WotSQ will feature as part of the breakdown.
Krash 06-09-07, 10:07 PM	Now, George, correct me if I'm wrong here, but as of 2008, Novels no longer equal sourcebooks, yes? Umm, I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are saying that the events in FR novels are no longer considered 'canon' from 2008, then I can say that I have heard nothing about this and would assume this is wrong. -- George Krashos
msatran 06-09-07, 11:34 PM	I was told that Wizards had issued a statement that as of 2008, FR novels would no longer equal sourcebooks.
MerrikCale 06-09-07, 11:55 PM	I was told that Wizards had issued a statement that as of 2008, FR novels would no longer equal sourcebooks. I gotta tell you I don't know what that means
Old Sage 06-10-07, 12:05 AM	I was told that Wizards had issued a statement that as of 2008, FR novels would no longer equal sourcebooks.I don't recall reading anything about that. And some of the things Ed has told us about his work on future FR novels and sourcebooks would seem to suggest otherwise.
msatran 06-10-07, 02:24 AM	Well, Ed seems more interested in the past right now than the future.
Old Sage 06-10-07, 03:13 AM	Not all of Ed's recent FR projects involve the history of the Knights of Myth Drannor, as detailed through the novels, nor the historical tidbits he's including in Grand History. He's working on FR sources that deal with "current" FR as well.
MarkusTay63 06-10-07, 09:35 AM	Well, Ed seems more interested in the past right now than the future.From what I gather here, so do most fans. ;) I wouldn't mind seeing a slew of novels set in past periods, and I'm fairly sure most others wouldn't either. Novels set in the present/future tend to screw-up stuff in home campaigns, but historic stories just add background flavor to the Realms without disturbing anything.
Caledan 06-10-07, 04:17 PM	Well if it contains lore, I will buy it. and if it doesnt contain more prestige classes, i will buy it for sure!!!
msatran 06-10-07, 11:13 PM	Well, I don't mind a few prcs. PRCs are useful. It's other crunch I don't really have a use for.
MarkusTay63 06-10-07, 11:17 PM	I would agree with you, IF they were always good, but you have to admit there are quite a few that are utter crap. There is a place for GOOD PrCs, but not most of the regurgitated slop we see in print just to fill page counters.
Dark Wizard 06-11-07, 12:32 AM	I couldn't agree more. There are a lot of bad PrCs out there, often failing to be specific enough to a setting or a character concept (the majority of them) and also sometimes lacking mechanically (I don't care how special a PrC might be, but they should at a minimum be roughly as useful as if you keep progressing in your base class). For some reason I feel FR has an unfortunately high proportion of bad vs. good PrCs, not sure why.
Agudo Archmage 06-11-07, 03:48 AM	Ya know, I read everyones posts, all the way up to now and I am still laughing at this reply :rofl: MerriKcale you had me at hello If ya saw the movie, ya would know why thats sooooo funny :cool: Anyway, the fact that this is about History and not rule mumbo jumbo :rolleyes: Makes it the best reason for me to buy it :D
Faraer 06-11-07, 08:30 AM	Most prestige classes just don't persuade me that they offer anything not already possible with multiclassing and feats, and many seem obviously contrived concepts to fill "crunch" quotas (the "n + 1 Prestige Classes!" blurb that the Paizo editors let us know was effective in selling Dragon).
GothicDan 06-11-07, 08:58 AM	I suppose it depends on how exacting you want to be in your definition of what you want to do with a character, mechanically. One of the things I dislike about PrCs is that, flavor-wise, it's almost like you're simply slapping together two completely different themes to even get the actual one you may want (the PrC). But then you've still got all of those first five levels that just don't make any sense with more culturally idiosyncratic character concepts. That's going to be a problem for me with PrCs no matter how culturally appropriate they are: you're still going to have those first five levels of generic undead turning/rebuking, energy channeling Cleric in front. That may have worked way, way back in the years when it was obvious the Cleric class was supposed to represent a pretty standard Judeo-Christian inspired member of a clergy (look at the spells!); however, the fact that they introduced alternatives right in the 2E PHB, off the bat [Priests of a Specific Mythos], and then later spent dozens of pages (hundreds?) expanding this idea in various settings' publications, means to me that they realized the standard Cleric really didn't necessarily fit many (or even most) religious spell casters. Yes, my hate for the 3E Cleric is showing again. Sorry about that. I still get a little miffed with the way they portray Wizards vs. Sorcerers in core material, too. Magic and religion are just way too variable to provide such strict mechanical and thematic restraints for spellcasters, I think. PrCs help somewhat, if they're done right, but I'm still left wondering why my character didn't start studying the actual path he wanted to walk until 5 levels into his adventuring career. At least Substitution Levels help with this a little bit. The new 20 level classes are still often off to me, too. While they do manage to inject some flavor into them, since core barely has any culture to tie new material into, it means they're still entirely lacking in any interest in as far as how they would or would not fit into a specific world.
Alediran 06-11-07, 09:04 AM	PrCs help somewhat, if they're done right, but I'm still left wondering why my character didn't start studying the actual path he wanted to walk until 5 levels into his adventuring career. At least Substitution Levels help with this a little bit. I have another approach. In my campaign you have to act like you already have the PrCs (airplane pilots behave like pilots even when they aren't yet pilots) that your character wants to be, or they don't find teachers to train them on that PrC and instead they find other kinds of teachers. Alediran from day one was stocking on Air themed spells (Shocking Grasp, Gaseous Form, Lesser Electric Orb, etc.) and then trained during a year with a Master Elemental Savant from Halruaa who knows Alediran's parents.
GothicDan 06-11-07, 09:15 AM	That works somewhat for certain paths of life that center highly around personal conduct or a specific dogma, but not so much for most arcane spellcasters. When I played a Fire Genasi Fire Mage in 2E, I decided upon character creation that he wasn't going to use any cold spells (which were allowed to him, provided they didn't also fall in the Water school) or Necromancy spells, because it felt like the 'chill' of the dead to him. However, these are personal choices reflective of the sort of psyches that would be interested in attaining specific PrCs. They are not in any way representative of whatever dogmas the actual in-game PrC NPCs may hold, unless stated otherwise. What you did was cool, because it to show just how much your character liked Air Spells, which would perhaps IC ingratiate you to meeting possible future tutors (or maybe it was simply capricious personal choice, too.) But strictly speaking, casting the same Air spell the exact same way, with no new techniques applied or experimentations made (as represented by mechanical differences lacking), you aren't actually learning anything more about what it means to be an Elemental Savant of Air than a Sorcerer would who kept spamming Gust of Wind. Again, since I like to use physics most to make rough comparisons with magic: solving the same general physics question 5 times a day doesn't teach you anything new about Thermodynamics, nor does it even prepare you for learning something new about it.
Alediran 06-11-07, 09:21 AM	What you did was cool, because it to show just how much your character liked Air Spells, which would perhaps IC ingratiate you to meeting possible future tutors (or maybe it was simply capricious personal choice, too.) But strictly speaking, casting the same Air spell the exact same way, with no new techniques applied or experimentations made (as represented by mechanical differences lacking), you aren't actually learning anything more about what it means to be an Elemental Savant of Air than a Sorcerer would who kept spamming Gust of Wind. I know, that is why since 3rd lvl he studied under an actual Elemental Savant in order to become one. The last part of the process involved the summoning and binding (familiar) of a small air elemental that will become the Half-Elemental piece of Alediran when he hits 10th level in the PrC. Alediran also created a couple Air spells, his most significan spell (for the moment) being Alediran's Storm Shield.
MarkusTay63 06-11-07, 10:22 AM	Aren't there 'speciality priests' for most gods now in 3e? :confused: I have no problem with the old-school Judaeo-Christian Cleric, because he has a definate purpose IG. For beginning DMs, the amount of rules available can be overwhelming. By sticking to just the 'core' classes as first, a DM can concentrate on running a good game, rather then owning/reading/memorizing a hundred or so books. Then he can add stuff at his leisure, including the more esoteric PrCs. In this way, there is something for everyone. Some DMs NEVER want to add the level of complexity that speciality priests offer, while many do. I would have liked to see a different version of the core classes for each of the core races, because, like the Cleric, some simply don't fit well with that race's culture. I personally feel that Paladins should have stayed human-only, more so then any other, and then a different 'version' of a holy protector could have been made for each race. That probably would have made an excellent Dragon article, but we will most likely NOT see anything that good again in print. :( I'm not talking about substitution levels either, although they do work nicely for Rangers and others, but rather a completely different build for each Racial Paladin. Champion of Corellon Larethian and Dwarven Defender are both good places to start, but versions for the Halflings and Gnomes would be nice as well. Hey, what would a Paladin of Gruumsh be like? :confused: They would probably have to use one of their other gods for the Orcish version. Then there could have been a follow-up article on race-specific Clerics as well. I don't think that having five or six versions of the Cleric would be nearly as overwhelming as 200, so most DMs could probably live with that.
Faraer 06-11-07, 10:44 AM	Aren't there 'speciality priests' for most gods now in 3e? :confused:There are lots of prestige classes, but Dragon's "Faiths of Faerûn" column where they first appeared started off explaining why multiclassing + feats + (much underused) ability swaps were often a better way of converting 2E specialty priests and only later switched to all prestige classes. So those prestige classes don't equate to specialty priests and as mentioned, aren't the best way to implement god-specific distinctions partly because they only apply to mid- and high-level characters. But the 2E in-Realms distinction between clerics and specialty priests doesn't make sense to me either, seemingly a misreading of the god-specific clerics of "Deities & Demigods of the World of Greyhawk", in Dragon again. Back to the Grand History of the Realms!
MarkusTay63 06-11-07, 11:24 AM	BTW, a PrC only needs a pre-requisite, correct? So being a worshipper of a god should be the ONLY pre-requisite required by a speciality priest. My two Paragon Classes I made for the Elven Netbook have the single pre-requisite of being an Elf, and even give a special bonus for taking said class at level one. Just because most PrCs are geared toward power-play doesn't mean that that is the way is has to be. PrCs were originally designed so that DMs could incorporate classes that 'bent' the rules and allowed them more control over cultural or organization-specific arch-types. I don't see any reason why a prestige class can't be taken at level one when applied to a specific god/belief system. EDIT: I just found a reason - the rules in the DMG specifically state that a PrC CAN'T be taken at level one. Thats just plain stupid AND limiting. I therefore offer a new in-between type of class - the SpC (Speciality Class), that requires at least one pre-requisite but can be taken at level 1. Of course, that is just a culturally-specific core class, so we might as well go back to using level-substitution instead. :bored:
msatran 06-11-07, 12:29 PM	Well, the thing is, if you can ground your players in the history, they might care more about the world and not care about the PRCs so much.
GothicDan 06-11-07, 08:29 PM	Yeah, like that'd ever happen. ;) I don't necessarily want a core Cleric class that takes into account every possibility, or a separate Cleric class for every God in core rules. I just think that the Core Cleric class should have been more variable and had less flavor intrinsically built in. And then in FR specific products, various Clerical paths could have been presented for each religious Order, with its own list of Feats and Substitution-like class abilities. In fact, this is my ideal of how all D20 products should have been made, if they insisted on separating core material from world-specific: VERY generic archetype classes that were then modified by individual campaign settings' mechanics. One way I tried to do this, when I was still building my settings with D20 classes in mind, was basically making a Core cleric that gave choices like: - Class Skills: Knowledge (Religion), Concentration, choose 5 more from among Religion options. - Domain Powers: Choose one every 4 levels from Religion options. (The Domain Powers would have had prereqs similar to Feats in some cases.) - Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Equivalent to the Wizard initially. (One could take more with Feats.) - HD: D6. - Spells: A Cleric's spell list considers of all spells that belong to their Religion's Domains, plus 2 automatic spells per level (1-9) chosen by the player from any spell list, and approved by the DM. (This was one part I was iffy about. I have no problem giving more DM authority, but I wasn't sure if 2 spells per level was enough. Also, I tried to include really more like 8-10 Domains per deity.)
bitter thorn 06-12-07, 11:09 PM	Well said! I must concur! If you are a Realms Fan you need to buy a Grand History of the Realms. Here's why: 1) It's going to be beautiful. You will enjoy owning a physical copy of the book and having it as part of your collection. 2) It will have more stuff in it than the PDF. There will be a lot of extra added lore that was not in the PDF. More history, both old, ancient and recent, with added material to take the timeline up to the most current year. New material by Ed Greenwood, essays from Elminster, and also an exclusive short story by R.A Salvatore I believe. 3) There will be a few secrets revealed in the book, lore that has not previously been known, not even in the PDF. 4) And the very most important reason, the reason that every Realms fan should buy this book, is that this book is what the Realms is all about! It will be chock full of glorious lore, not prestige classes, not new spells, not new feats, it is a History book about our favorite campaign setting! As such it is a remarkably unmarketable book, and a huge risk for the Forgotten Realms team to even put out. I have no idea how they got permission from Hasbro to even suggest putting such a book out there. There are probably bean-counters somewhere just chomping at the bit to have this book fail so that they never have to publish another one. It is a grand experiment. I bet they are fearing and thoroughly expecting to take a bath on such a book. That is why you must buy it! Buy 3 for your friends. Buy them as Christmas presents for every gamer you know. How this book sells is going to determine what kind of FR books WotC publishes in the future. People say they don't want adventures, they want sourcebooks filled with lore. Well this book is exactly that. This is the book that Realms fans on the board have said they want. And if you expect WotC to ever put out anything like it ever again, then it has to sell well. We as fans have to support it or WotC will view it as a failure and will put out other kinds of books instead. If you love the Forgotten Realms, then you should support this book. Simple as that. If it sells well then you can expect WotC to take more risks and put out similar books in the future. If it does poorly it may affect the kind of books you see them publish far into the future. The good thing is that this book will be awesome and will be well worth the money for anyone who buys it. It is a win-win situation for all involved. If you buy this book, more than any other Realms book that has been published up til now, you are voting for the Realms with your pocket book. And that is a vote that WotC will listen to. And you will be well rewarded for your purchase!
MerrikCale 06-14-07, 11:07 PM	Ya know, I read everyones posts, all the way up to now and I am still laughing at this reply :rofl: MerriKcale If ya saw the movie, ya would know why thats sooooo funny :cool: Anyway, the fact that this is about History and not rule mumbo jumbo :rolleyes: Makes it the best reason for me to buy it :D why thank you, sir
Zanan 06-16-07, 06:56 AM	... In fact, this is my ideal of how all D20 products should have been made, if they insisted on separating core material from world-specific: VERY generic archetype classes that were then modified by individual campaign settings' mechanics. One way I tried to do this, when I was still building my settings with D20 classes in mind, was basically making a Core cleric that gave choices like: - Class Skills: Knowledge (Religion), Concentration, choose 5 more from among Religion options. - Domain Powers: Choose one every 4 levels from Religion options. (The Domain Powers would have had prereqs similar to Feats in some cases.) - Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Equivalent to the Wizard initially. (One could take more with Feats.) - HD: D6. - Spells: A Cleric's spell list considers of all spells that belong to their Religion's Domains, plus 2 automatic spells per level (1-9) chosen by the player from any spell list, and approved by the DM. (This was one part I was iffy about. I have no problem giving more DM authority, but I wasn't sure if 2 spells per level was enough. Also, I tried to include really more like 8-10 Domains per deity.) Take a look at the not-aptly named archivist class, take out the dark knowledge stuff and add the domains (1 & 2) somewhere along the way. End result is a decent adventuring divine caster with the DM determining the spells s/he can cast.
msatran 06-16-07, 02:32 PM	Actually, the thing I can't stand is not the PRCs. It's the TWO PAGE !@#$#!ing statblock with a sample character THAT REPRINTS 20-100 percent of the info that's ALREADY IN THE PRC BLOCK AND TABLE! Are we such RETARDS that we can't figure it out for ourselves?
Agudo Archmage 06-16-07, 04:46 PM	msatran Are we such RETARDS that we can't figure it out for ourselves? Ummmm...well I am glad ye asked for ye see....Heheh nevermind :P
msatran 06-17-07, 06:08 AM	See, the thing is, this teaches people to not make their own statblocks. I worked for years to make the damn things and figure them out to do all the calculations in my head. The problem is, my mind is much like a spreadsheet. Change the format, change everything. The thing that really gets me is that the sheer amount of lore that is wasted to our eyes by the presence of these colossal statblocks. Wouldn't the lore on the character be nice if we were oh...I don't know...allowed to build them ourselves and have more RP INFO?
Gray Richardson 06-17-07, 12:49 PM	While I have no inside knowledge of the book, I think you can rest assured that A Grand History of the Realms is not going to waste any space on stats. There is just too much lore to impart to waste any space. Stats just aren't the kind of thing that will be in there. I cannot guarantee with a certainty that there won't be a couple of stat blocks, but it would not surprise me at all if there were none at all in the book.
Iakhovas 06-17-07, 10:21 PM	Gray is absolutely correct. There are no stat blocks or rules of any kind in the Grand History. This, of course, is a real bummer if you like that sort of thing. But the lack of crunch also helps the longevity of the product. A decade from now when we're all playing 5th-Edition D&D, you'll still be able to break out your copy of the Grand History and enjoy the lore therein without skipping over a bunch of useless prestige classes and feats.
msatran 06-17-07, 10:38 PM	Happy am I. I long for the days when next to a lore entry was "Human Fighter 18."
MarkusTay63 06-19-07, 02:05 PM	A decade from now when we're all playing 5th-Edition D&D...<snip>I just did a 'Macaulay Culkin' a'la Home Alone - :eek: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Dielzen 06-19-07, 02:37 PM	On the subject of Maps....Will there be a "territory" map in this book? Basically a map of the main part of Faerun with color coded "blobs" that show who owns/controls/domainates what geographical areas? Most of this is fairly obvious, I realize, but some of the recent upheavals (primarily the Myth Drannor trilogy) have had a huge impact on contested areas. I love the tension of contested areas, with multiple sides vying for control and PCs caught in the crossfire.
Iakhovas 06-19-07, 04:42 PM	I don't believe so Dielzen. The maps I know of are all historical in nature. On the subject of Maps....Will there be a "territory" map in this book? Basically a map of the main part of Faerun with color coded "blobs" that show who owns/controls/domainates what geographical areas? Most of this is fairly obvious, I realize, but some of the recent upheavals (primarily the Myth Drannor trilogy) have had a huge impact on contested areas. I love the tension of contested areas, with multiple sides vying for control and PCs caught in the crossfire.
MisterWhodat 06-20-07, 03:36 PM	Any idea the price? Not that it matters.
Iakhovas 06-22-07, 07:44 PM	WotC lists the retail price at $29.95 USD, though Amazon is discounting it for $19.77 USD http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/9780786947317 http://www.amazon.com/Grand-History-Realms-Brian-James/dp/0786947314 Any idea the price? Not that it matters.
Zanan 06-23-07, 07:54 AM	One more question to the designer then ... after reading that Dragon article on the Dalelands. It mentions the initial events about Maerimydra as well as the end of the WotSQ with dates. Does TGHotR expand on that more, e.g. telling us about the official outcome of the battle about Maerimydra and maybe some other WotSQ drow-city-related issues?
msatran 06-23-07, 02:32 PM	I'll pay full price at my LGS for all 20 copies rather than give Amazon a dime for a non-video product and put small businesspeople out of work.
Pystian 06-24-07, 09:56 AM	I'll pay full price at my LGS for all 20 copies rather than give Amazon a dime for a non-video product and put small businesspeople out of work. Amen
Cryto 06-24-07, 04:01 PM	Can't wait to see details about Sarya Dlardrageth (if there is any in the book)
Zanan 06-24-07, 06:25 PM	Can't wait to see details about Sarya Dlardrageth (if there is any in the book) In what respect? She's been thoroughly dealt with in the Last Mythal series.
Eladrinstar 06-24-07, 06:54 PM	I’m very proud of the work I did on the PDF, but that product was the result of one man sitting in his basement late at night compiling timelines in his spare time. The print Grand History, however, is the result of countless hours of collaboration between myself, Ed Greenwood, Eric L. Boyd, George Krashos, and Tom Costa. This was the dream team for this product as far as I was concerned. I only wish I had the pleasure to work with Steven Schend, as I’ve admired his work for years. :bow: So you already have the PDF and want to know why you should purchase the sourcebook? There are too many goodies to list them all but I’ll mention some of the features that I find particularly compelling about the print version of the Grand History. • Fans of the creator races will find juicy new lore. • Want to know more about the Sundering? Or what the planet looked like before this catastrophic event? • Curious about the Crown Wars? Want to see the first official map of the elven nations which fought the 2nd and 4th crown wars? • Dark elf fans will enjoy new lore on ancient Ilythiir and the Descent of the Drow. • The lost empires of Jhaamdath and Imaskar are fleshed out further than in any previous sourcebook, including a fantastic map for each. • Updated lore on Netheril, their enslavement of gnomes and the fate of General Matick. • Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. • You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Or how the Tears of Selûne were formed? • Dawn Cataclysm. :incog: • Ed Greenwood's name is on the cover for a reason. Ok some of you are still unimpressed? Ancient history is great and all but you’re wondering how the Grand History will help your campaign set in the present. How about a month by month break down of every major event from the Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR) through the Year of Risen Elfkin (1375 DR). Those of you that don’t read every novel can now use these events in your campaign if you so choose. Of course there is much more than that, but I’ve probably already revealed more than I should have. :gel: I look forward to meeting many of you at GEN CON this summer where I'm sure I'll be able to answer questions in more detail. You, sir, you are the second coming.
Burningspear 06-24-07, 07:12 PM	i just hope they don't get some mental ideas about: "lest twist previous events around so we can make our current crap better entwined into the older lore without having to give credit to former books and so we can ignore a lot of old stuff in favor of selling another grandiose crap book with our name on it"... :plotting: done my ranting for now...
Krash 06-25-07, 08:23 AM	I just hope they don't get some mental ideas about: "lets twist previous events around so we can make our current crap better entwined into the older lore without having to give credit to former books and so we can ignore a lot of old stuff in favor of selling another grandiose crap book with our name on it"... :plotting: done my ranting for now... Why would you even think that was going to happen? Oh and for the record, I made up a bunch of stuff for this book. I suppose that has to be considered 'current crap'. Hopefully you'll like it. -- George Krashos
Alediran 06-25-07, 08:51 AM	Why would you even think that was going to happen? Oh and for the record, I made up a bunch of stuff for this book. I suppose that has to be considered 'current crap'. Hopefully you'll like it. -- George Krashos It's "crap" that smells like flowers :D
Burningspear 06-25-07, 09:27 AM	Why would you even think that was going to happen? Oh and for the record, I made up a bunch of stuff for this book. I suppose that has to be considered 'current crap'. Hopefully you'll like it. -- George Krashos simply because WoTC has a tendency to do so, , writing of gods from the faeruhn pantheon is one of them, inserting gods who up till now never existed etc., to my dismay. And no offense to you personally but even if my own grandmother was involved in the creation of such a book would i not care more then just to want to see them not ruin older info/ books. :smirk:
Zanan 06-25-07, 10:27 AM	You, sir, you are the second coming. If that was posted adressing me ... I knew it. Yet, I was asking a specific question ... and who knows what else is in the 1373 entry ... or what is not in there. So a simple "yes" or "no" would be very much appreciated.
TomCosta 06-25-07, 01:08 PM	One more question to the designer then ... after reading that Dragon article on the Dalelands. It mentions the initial events about Maerimydra as well as the end of the WotSQ with dates. Does TGHotR expand on that more, e.g. telling us about the official outcome of the battle about Maerimydra and maybe some other WotSQ drow-city-related issues? I believe there should be expansion on WotSQ dates in general (as there will be with most novels that take place more recently in the timeline), not sure how much more, there will be on Maerimydra specifically.
Eladrinstar 06-25-07, 01:09 PM	If that was posted adressing me ... I knew it. Yet, I was asking a specific question ... and who knows what else is in the 1373 entry ... or what is not in there. So a simple "yes" or "no" would be very much appreciated. Uh, do you want to be one of the new disciples?
Soltares 06-25-07, 02:28 PM	• Fans of the creator races will find juicy new lore. Ooh. Aaah! I remember reading some Moonshae product, *way* back, and some elder scroll was mentioned in the back of the book that was said to date back to the 'Creator Races.' I was hooked.
MarkusTay63 06-25-07, 05:38 PM	Why would you even think that was going to happen? Oh and for the record, I made up a bunch of stuff for this book. I suppose that has to be considered 'current crap'. Hopefully you'll like it. -- George KrashosI love 'current crap'. ;) Just as long as you remember the 'old crap' as well. :D And if FR lore is crap, then I guess that means I suffer from crap-O-phillia, or whatever the hell that 'obsession' is called. :P
msatran 06-25-07, 06:48 PM	Whoever said something about the second coming... Remember Yeats before you say that. Things fall apart. The center cannot hold. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world. While I wait with drooling anticipation for this product, I also prefer to hold off on judgement prior to having it in the hands and in the hands of my players.
Zanan 06-26-07, 04:33 AM	I believe there should be expansion on WotSQ dates in general (as there will be with most novels that take place more recently in the timeline), not sure how much more, there will be on Maerimydra specifically. Thanks for that info. Now the waiting game begins for Storm of the Dead, Shadowstorm AND the Grand History ...
MarkusTay63 06-26-07, 01:55 PM	Thanks for that info. Now the waiting game begins for Storm of the Dead, Shadowstorm AND the Grand History ...Oh Ohhh! Can I be Bachelor number three?! :D Oh... wait... nevermind... that's the DATING game I'm thinking of... :allalone: Guess I'll just have to wait as well. ;)
Sullivan 06-26-07, 03:14 PM	• Want to know more about the Sundering? Or what the planet looked like before this catastrophic event? Sundering? • Ed Greenwood's name is on the cover for a reason. How much did Ed of the Greenwood contribute? Will we learn more about the amphibious creator race, the one that followed the surruhk? How it the material presented? It is strictly time-lines, like those in the Lost Empires of Faerun? Does it has essay’s, like the one at the end of the FRCS? Or is it something else? Or a combination? Or do you come to my house and tell me about the history, when I want you to?
MarkusTay63 06-26-07, 04:18 PM	The Sundering was the cataclysm caused by the Elves that shattered the original Pangean proto-continent called Merrouroboros. That event created a 'little ice-age' effect, and wiped dozens, perhaps hundreds, of races/species/cultures off the map. Oh... and it was all because they had a bad case of homesickness... :rolleyes: I wouldn't mind getting an exact date on the Sundering... I believe the original GHotR had it at -17,000 DR, but it was different I think in LEoF. I love the Sundering, because I use it to explain a lot of the cultural descrepencies I find throughout Abeir-Toril. :D
Eladrinstar 06-26-07, 05:29 PM	The Sundering was the cataclysm caused by the Elves that shattered the original Pangean proto-continent called Merrouroboros. That event created a 'little ice-age' effect, and wiped dozens, perhaps hundreds, of races/species/cultures off the map. Oh... and it was all because they had a bad case of homesickness... :rolleyes: I wouldn't mind getting an exact date on the Sundering... I believe the original GHotR had it at -17,000 DR, but it was different I think in LEoF. I love the Sundering, because I use it to explain a lot of the cultural descrepencies I find throughout Abeir-Toril. :D I guess when they made Evermeet, they decided it was going to be an island, but failed to specify where said island was to be located, and thus it appeared in the middle of Merrouroboros. However you can't have an island on land, so the sea rushed in to stop a paradox from breaking reality. That's how it is in my campaign. :P
Sullivan 06-26-07, 05:32 PM	The Sundering was the cataclysm caused by the Elves that shattered the original Pangean proto-continent called Merrouroboros... Is that the same incident that made the Underdark? Before that it had been normal caves. After that it was strange vast cavern networks that lots of people could live in...
Zanan 06-26-07, 06:23 PM	Oh Ohhh! Can I be Bachelor number three?! :D Oh... wait... nevermind... that's the DATING game I'm thinking of... :allalone: Guess I'll just have to wait as well. ;) The bachelors graduating from my school have no more need for datings :evillaugh
MarkusTay63 06-26-07, 06:26 PM	Probably, but I'm sure one of the real experts will be along to correct me if not. So basically, not only are the Elves responsible for the creation of the Drow, but are also responsible for the 'hell' they live in. Considering this coincides to the time when the Dwarves migrated out of the Yehimals, I would say they unleashed all sorts of evil beasties on an unsuspecting underworld.
Iakhovas 06-26-07, 08:28 PM	How much did Ed of the Greenwood contribute?Off the essays, Ed contributed about twice as much as any other designer. I think it will be easy to spot Ed's influence on the product. Will we learn more about the amphibious creator race, the one that followed the surruhk?A few bits of lore here and there, yes. How is the material presented?I haven't seen the final layout, but as I understand it the essays will be distributed throughout the book with the chronology filling the spaces between. Of course there will be gorgeous maps and artwork as well. Oh and a bonus appendix from Mr. Krashos with goodies I won't yet reveal. I wouldn't mind getting an exact date on the Sundering... I believe the original GHotR had it at -17,000 DR, but it was different I think in LEoF.The PDF dated the Sundering at c.-25,000 DR. As indicated in LEoF and repeated in the print Grand History, the official date for the Sundering is -17,600 DR. Can't wait to see details about Sarya Dlardrageth (if there is any in the book) Other than some timeline events, I don't believe you're going to see any more detail on Sarya Dlardrageth, Sorry. One more question to the designer then ... after reading that Dragon article on the Dalelands. It mentions the initial events about Maerimydra as well as the end of the WotSQ with dates. Does TGHotR expand on that more, e.g. telling us about the official outcome of the battle about Maerimydra and maybe some other WotSQ drow-city-related issues?I do not believe these events are expanded on beyond what was printed in the Dragon article.
Faraer 06-26-07, 08:47 PM	I miss the "Current Crap" that used to appear in Realms sourcebooks and Polyhedron articles.
Iakhovas 06-26-07, 08:51 PM	Current Clack? I miss the "Current Crap" that used to appear in Realms sourcebooks and Polyhedron articles.
Faraer 06-26-07, 09:12 PM	Oh yeah, that was it! ;)
Zanan 06-27-07, 07:59 AM	I do not believe these events are expanded on beyond what was printed in the Dragon article. Lolth weeps! Well, a few notes have been passed onto us in Sacrifice of the Widow, maybe Storm of the Dead will expand a little more.
Krash 06-27-07, 09:08 AM	I love 'current crap'. ;) Just as long as you remember the 'old crap' as well. :D And if FR lore is crap, then I guess that means I suffer from crap-O-phillia, or whatever the hell that 'obsession' is called. :P All my 'current crap' reads like 'old crap'. Plus we make 'old crap' seem new and wonderful again. -- George Krashos
Alediran 06-27-07, 09:23 AM	All my 'current crap' reads like 'old crap'. Plus we make 'old crap' seem new and wonderful again. -- George Krashos Don't forget they also smell like flowers.
Morgil 06-28-07, 10:37 AM	I STRONGLY encourage people to pay the extra money and buy the book from your LGS instead of Amazon. I know this goes against every law of bad economy, but if gaming is to survive, it needs open, attendable forums where gamers can meet, swap stories, and play games. People who go to Amazon and buy the same rulebooks for less hurt small business owners who used to be the cornerstones of this industry. I beg and plead with all of you to bring gaming back to it's roots and support local gaming stores in your area. hear hear I cannot stress enough that this is absolutely true Where else could you find a great game like blackbeard and talk about it with other gamers face to face.
sleyvas 06-29-07, 03:33 PM	Just wondering because I'm not sure if I have the PDF file of the timeline on my PC at home still. Will wizards be offering up a PDF version of this book? I'm thinking that this is one piece that would sell well if you have a lot of extra content beyond what's on the timeline. Secondarily, since they may be reading this post, I know they plan on doing SOMETHING with a web based content providing... this would be a good thing to have regular updates of. Phillip aka Sleyvas
Krash 06-29-07, 10:32 PM	I doubt that a PDF will be made available. To my mind a PDF is going to equate to lost sales with the mass transferability of such an electronic product. As for updates, I have no idea. Maybe we'll see Grand History of the Realms II in 10 years ... -- George Krashos
Iakhovas 06-30-07, 10:47 AM	http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ux-QOGgiL._SS500_.jpg
captaincarot 06-30-07, 10:59 AM	mmm nice piccy. i bet the subject starts some people off whingeing though.
Eladrinstar 06-30-07, 12:28 PM	*sigh* Why Drizzt? All his activites are recent. Why not a picture of the creator races, or the sundering? And know I bet the R.A. Salvatore short story will be about Drizzt, and have little to do with history.
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 01:12 PM	Although the picture is beautiful, I can see the bean counters at work again. It's a Lockwood, correct? Personaly, I think something along the lines of Bryan's original would have been FAR more appropriate. It still makes me drool with anticipation, though. :drool: The full-cover art is a nice touch, is there a reason why they didn't give it the usual FR cover treatment? Perhaps, they hope that fans of both the computer games and novels will be more apt to buy it without the D&D game logo? That WOULD explain Drizzt then.
captaincarot 06-30-07, 01:15 PM	see it took one post. there your honour the my case for the prosecution rests.:D
Gray Richardson 06-30-07, 01:40 PM	I think the picture is beautiful! As for Driz'zt, why not? He has a long history with the published realms. He is one of the oldest characters in published history. He has certainly witnessed a lot of history in the making. And he is a very popular guy. ;) If it attracts a few more fans to pick up the book because they see Driz'zt on the cover, then I am all for that. There are a lot of beautiful covers to compete with, so to put an iconic Realms character on the cover is probably a good move. The word "History" in the title might be a turn-off to the casual browser, so a picture of Driz'zt may counteract that impression, and it certainly sends the message that this isn't a dry or boring history text, but an engaging chronicle of the unfolding story of Faerûn. The composition of the picture sends exactly that message. The tiny adventurer in the foreground (Driz'zt with his panther) is obviously on a journey of some kind. He is gazing forward, appraising the vista spread before him, almost in anticipation of some grand adventure. There is a darker ruin in the mid-ground, in the shadow of the cliffs, which speaks to the hidden secrets of Faerûn's past, but the sun is shining on the mountain in the distance, and your eye is drawn deep, back into the landscape towards the horizon where the journey leads. While Driz'zt is certainly an element of the picture, the focus of the picture is on the land itself, and the many secrets and adventures that await one who journeys within. Faerûn itself is the "star" of the picture, and I think that is entirely appropriate! The cover does not have your typical faux leather banding in the style of ofther realms books, I take it they are going for more of a coffee table style look, reminiscent of the Draconomicon. I bet the colors will be vibrant and very eye-catching in the store, and it will look great on a table or shelf. I am even more stoked about the book now that I see the cover!
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 01:55 PM	I wouldn't disagree with anything you have said Gray, and if you look over my post I say pretty much the same thing. The cover is appropriate, from a business stand point. If it generates more interest in the P&P version of the game, more power to it. I just liked Brian's original idea of a historian pouring over his books. There were MANY other characters that would have been MORE appropriate on the cover, but none of them would draw in the fan-boys like a Dark Elf. From a purely business stand-point, it was a very sound decision.
Zanan 06-30-07, 04:11 PM	Lolth weeps ... of all the Realmsfolk, it is the sulking renegade. :blink:
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 04:20 PM	Ahhhh... but Zanan, you have to look beyond the surface. :) A Dark Elf, surveying the land... a land RIPE... for takeover... :plotting: "Ahhhh Guenhwyvar, they have all fallen for my act. Now it is time for Lolth's true plan to come to fruition..." Now only the actions of a former assassin turned hero can save the surface folk from the evil drow... :devil:
Soltares 06-30-07, 04:35 PM	I just liked Brian's original idea of a historian pouring over his books. I would have liked to see a picture of Candlekeep here, preferably an external panaromic one, like this picture. A single scholar poring over books wouldn't have been sufficient, I don't think (plus the notion reminds me of the cover to the original Unearthed Arcana, which was neat, but wouldn't really capture the main character of the *Realms*). The larger view I think was a good choice. Obviously, Drizz't, an explorer of the surface Realms, indeed, a Ranger, is suitable for the cover, whether or not I care for the fellow, or, more specifically, for his fairly venomous and defensive fanbase. (The character has potential, and fairly brilliantly captured the same sort of angsty eternal outsider feel that made Elric of Melnibone and the vampire Lestat such fan-favorites among teens and twenty-somethings when developed. The people who mindlessly attack anyone who criticizes any little detail are what has turned me off to discussions about him.)
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 06:04 PM	I never said he was wrong for it, I could have just thought of some that were better... Like Elminster. ;) Same pose, with him taking in the Realms, perhaps with a young silver-haired girl-child by his side.... As much as I think that El is a 'munchkin', I miss the days when he graced many a cover. Of course, someone evil like Szass Tam would have worked just as well, overlooking the lands of Thay, and would have tied into recent novels. However, Drizzt was the perfect choice from a marketing standpoint. perhaps with an interior piece of art, with a Candlekeep scholar (Alaundo?) pouring over tomes, would make me feel better, especially if it were part of the foreward...
RedGlacier 06-30-07, 09:50 PM	I just hope it sells well, so as to send a message to the marketing folk at WotC. Something along the line of ''See? Pure fluff can sell well!''. I'm gonna get two copies (one for me, one for my younger brother). Go Realms! :cheer: No, wait. I can do better. :thinks: I got it! Go realmslore! :cheer:
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 10:03 PM	Just two? :confused: I would reccomend everyone get second jobs and buy at least thirty. :P
Thursby 07-01-07, 08:15 AM	Didn't WOTC already use this painting? I think it was on the FR gamemaster screen. :thinks:
Gelcur 07-01-07, 10:55 AM	Didn't WOTC already use this painting? I think it was on the FR gamemaster screen. :thinks: Yes it seems vaguely familiar and I think are spot on I don't have mine right now but I think that is where it is from. Or its very similar.
GothicDan 07-01-07, 12:49 PM	Mentally, I see Brian reacting thusly to the news that the cover will be Drizzt: "Yes! That will be great!" Scary vicious, forced smile. Things breaking on the inside. I knew WotC would drop the ball at some point.
MarkusTay63 07-01-07, 01:57 PM	If it is recycled art, then I am torn. On the one hand, in infuriates me they couldn't shell out a few bucks for new art, but on the other I'm just glad its not some of the atrocious art they've been using. I hope it isn't recycled, though. I've never heard of a new book getting used artwork, and if this is the case then it's setting a pretty sleazy standard. After a tiny bit of research, I have unveiled this - http://www.pen-paper.net/images/rpgdb/wtc88686.jpg EXTREMELY similar, especially given there is yet another version of this same pic in the Menzoberranzan Box (Drizzt and Guenywher overlooking the city) on one of the sourcebook covers, and I believe the same pic was used in 2e's DotU in the interior. Whats with this guy? He got staring problems or something? :uh-huh:
Dr_Tough 07-01-07, 02:17 PM	I might have missed this in the thread, but, where is the .pdf copy located that the OP is referencing?
Thursby 07-01-07, 02:58 PM	EXTREMELY similar, especially given there is yet another version of this same pic in the Menzoberranzan Box (Drizzt and Guenywher overlooking the city) on one of the sourcebook covers, and I believe the same pic was used in 2e's DotU in the interior. WOW! That is close. Whats with this guy? He got staring problems or something? :uh-huh: :rofl:
Soltares 07-01-07, 03:37 PM	Whats with this guy? He got staring problems or something? :uh-huh: Well he's a moody outcast, a loner, an outsider, symbolized by how he's, yanno, *outside.* :)
MarkusTay63 07-01-07, 03:50 PM	So basically, he's staring down at everything, wondering who's gonna pick a fight with him today, and if its even worth bothering 'going there'? ;) I might have missed this in the thread, but, where is the .pdf copy located that the OP is referencing?I just checked all of the sources for the download - its gone now.
lavekkia 07-01-07, 07:05 PM	http://www.geonomicon.com/portal/ on the right you will find the separated chronologies They MUST be browsed with Internet Explorer
Old Sage 07-01-07, 07:58 PM	So basically, he's staring down at everything, wondering who's gonna pick a fight with him today, and if its even worth bothering 'going there'? ;) I just checked all of the sources for the download - its gone now.It has indeed been taken down from Brian's own site, and in accordance with both Brian and WotC's request, the Grand History PDF has also been removed from Candlekeep.
Dr_Tough 07-01-07, 09:08 PM	It has indeed been taken down from Brian's own site, and in accordance with both Brian and WotC's request, the Grand History PDF has also been removed from Candlekeep. Nooooo...
Krash 07-01-07, 10:13 PM	Nothing to be upset over. The published version will be superior. -- George Krashos
MarkusTay63 07-01-07, 10:29 PM	Yestereday I went almost the entire day without opening the PDF, just to see if it was possible. I lasted to about 4PM - I fear for my printed copy. :eek:
msatran 07-02-07, 01:15 AM	Well, guys, I AM buying 20. :)
GothicDan 07-02-07, 02:38 AM	I'll buy one, if I'm lucky... Actually, I have a decent shot of getting it for Christmas. Stupid being a poor college student. And books.. And fraternity dues.. And parties..
Zanan 07-02-07, 03:54 AM	Well, guys, I AM buying 20. :) Right, as you only need 19, you can send me one for free because ... because ... because of my good looks! :love:
Old Sage 07-02-07, 04:20 AM	I'll be purchasing two copies -- one to be placed in storage and the other for my daily reference purposes. I'm also trying to persuade the Lady K into purchasing a copy for her own use, since it's unlikely she'll be able to read through my copy in the months immediately after the release of Grand History.
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 04:37 AM	I just picture you... "Nasty hobbitsess, you can't haves it, it's my... Precioussssssssssss"
Zanan 07-02-07, 06:18 AM	I just picture you... "Nasty hobbitsess, you can't haves it, it's my... Precioussssssssssss" So I need my hexblades to curse you down to no-where and then Charm Monster you? Hm hm ...
Old Sage 07-02-07, 11:29 AM	I just picture you... "Nasty hobbitsess, you can't haves it, it's my... Precioussssssssssss"Are you saying I'm ugly? :P :D ;)
GothicDan 07-02-07, 12:47 PM	Old Sage is quite the dashing one. ;)
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 01:10 PM	-I'm still willing to perform that marriage.
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 03:09 PM	Are you saying I'm ugly? :P :D ;)Nahhh :P Just 'covetous' of the ultimate power and knowledge such a Tome would bestow. :D
hawkinsthedm 07-02-07, 03:38 PM	This looks to be an exciting, happy thing. I do, however, wish that I could get a copy of the PDF too. It is useful to have electronic resources when planning adventures.
msatran 07-03-07, 02:25 AM	Actually, every player in my game gets one.
Iakhovas 09-06-07, 12:55 AM	Matt Smith's September and Beyond article has a preview of the Grand History of the Realms including the first sneak peak of a vignette by George Krashos! Check it out at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20070905a and http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20070905b
Krash 09-06-07, 06:43 AM	Matt Smith's September and Beyond article has a preview of the Grand History of the Realms including the first sneak peak of a vignette by George Krashos! Check it out at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20070905a and http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20070905b Ahh, nice.:) I hope that the published vignettes don't reveal what author wrote which piece. I was planning to have some fun by asking the fans to give their opinions as to who wrote what ... :D As for the vignette featured in the preview, all I'll say is that I wrote it for a very specific reason which will hopefully be readily apparent. A cookie for whoever works it out first. -- George Krashos
Iakhovas 09-06-07, 09:41 AM	I hope that the published vignettes don't reveal what author wrote which piece. I was planning to have some fun by asking the fans to give their opinions as to who wrote what ... :DThat's no fair. One need just look for the vignettes written by the hand of a computer programmer with mediocre talent at writing and you’ll easily spot mine. :bigeyes: But they were all fun as hell to write and I hope the fans enjoy them. Only a couple more weeks to go... :king:
MarkusTay63 09-06-07, 11:17 AM	A couple of things - 1) It appears certain events haved been 'moved'... am I correct? 2) It looks like Maztica may open up as a new arena for adventuring in 4e. :D 3) I don't see ANY mention of Kara-Tur or Zakhara, but it's nice to see the Hordelands get some coverage. 4) So THAT'S the deal with Aglarond... it exists merely to get Thayans to aspire to new levels of power. I always thought it was something along those lines... 5) Increased pirate activity? Isn't the next Candlekeep Compendium coming out soon, Brian? ;)
Lord Karsus 09-06-07, 01:23 PM	Right, as you only need 19, you can send me one for free because ... because ... because of my good looks! :love: -Me too! :D -No one, except KtM, knows what beauty lies underneath the shadows of that hooded cloak...
hawkinsthedm 09-06-07, 02:10 PM	I just want to make one more call to all you Realms fans out there: Please buy a copy of the Grand History of the Realms so we can show WotC that we want more lore (to some, read: fluff) in our Realms materials and less crunch. The more editionless, the better! As a side note: I, and many others, would like to see updates for the various continents affiliated to the Realms (i.e. Kara-Tur, Zhakara, Matztica, et cetera) and maybe some content on the "Unknown Lands" shown in the map "A Scholar's View of Abeir-Toril" (http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/d/dd/Abeir-Toril.JPG) found in the 3e FRCS.
MarkusTay63 09-06-07, 02:31 PM	Only One? Why be cheap? :P I think people should go for home-equity loans to maximize buying power and send a message. ;)
hawkinsthedm 09-06-07, 02:35 PM	Only One? Why be cheap? :P I think people should go for home-equity loans to maximize buying power and send a message. ;) Lol. If I had the money, I would probably buy a couple more. But I am married, and have credit cards and school loans to pay off. So...;)
Lord Karsus 09-06-07, 06:15 PM	Only One? Why be cheap? :P I think people should go for home-equity loans to maximize buying power and send a message. ;) -They ought to send me some money too, while they're at it, sending messages and all...
Krash 09-06-07, 08:26 PM	A couple of things - 1) It appears certain events haved been 'moved'... am I correct? Like what? -- George Krashos
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 02:11 AM	Sorry, my bad. I thought I was reading 1374 to 1377, I was off by a decade. :rolleyes:
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-07-07, 01:29 PM	Holy frig, I'm buying this book. The Cover Art alone sold me. Brian, will you be my adoptive father? Or blood brother? Or something that gives me the ability to walk into my shop and be like "I'm related to that guy! OWNED!" Please? :D
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 01:42 PM	You must join the Brotherhood of the Map Most High, my child. ;)
Lord Karsus 09-07-07, 01:55 PM	-Or, the Kult of Karsus. We have food.
hawkinsthedm 09-07-07, 02:02 PM	-Or, the Kult of Karsus. We have food. I was not a college student so long ago that I have forgotten the power of free food. If I was was looking for a cult to join, you would have won me over! :cool:
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 03:05 PM	The you need to join MY Donner Party, which was discussed in another thread. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=917666) The motto in a nutshell: "As long as we have hirelings, we'll never run out of food." :D Besides, Karse's Stones (and you know where THEY'VE been) have yucky Spellplague all over them these days... you'll catch a social disease hangin' out with THAT crowd. :P
GothicDan 09-07-07, 03:09 PM	I despair of my fellow college students. I've been preaching, "Don't take any free things! Then, THEY HAVE YOU!" for years. No one has listened. :(
MarkHall 09-07-07, 04:06 PM	I despair of my fellow college students. I've been preaching, "Don't take any free things! Then, THEY HAVE YOU!" for years. No one has listened. :( I swear, this is half the reason that campus ministries were so popular... they served free food every Sunday night, when the campus cafeterias were closed.
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 04:13 PM	Remind me to tell you sometime how I almost won a REAL political election with FREE BEER... ;)
GothicDan 09-07-07, 07:40 PM	See? SEE?! They never believe me. Anarchist, they call me! All I've been saying is, "Don't eat the cookies!" But noo, crazy am I...
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-07-07, 08:23 PM	-Or, the Kult of Karsus. We have food. Food? FOOD!?!?!? Karsus is my lord. -gerbil bow- Rodents are at your command. :P
JetLeechan 09-08-07, 12:26 PM	Will lore from pc games such as NWN find its way into the grand history?
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 12:27 PM	Some already has made it in, usually after a novel based on the game, but I suppose some more might.
richgreen01 09-08-07, 02:38 PM	Hi, I'm really looking forward to this, more so now I've seen the cover art! The original PDF has been very handy but this book sounds like it'll be even better. Cheers Richard
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 02:39 PM	Yes, all of a sudden the cover art seems... Strangely Appropriate. :( EDIT: I've been doing some very deep thinking today, and I've decided that the information contained in this tome will very well be THE most important lore on FR we have EVER gotten. As this will most likely be the FINAL 3e product, this single volume will be responsible for keeping the Realms we know and love alive in our games for years to come. Everything after this does NOT look like our Realms - it is a product of 4e and a whole different ball of wax. I have a feeling this will be the last FR purchase many of us make. I'll still buy the rules, mind you, but MY world will continue on the way it always has.
TomCosta 09-08-07, 04:29 PM	To each his own, I suppose, but I believe the Realms will continue to be a great place to game in. We're still looking at the involvement of Ed and Eric Boyd, as well as Rich Baker and probably Sean Reynolds, as well as the other pros at Wizards and freelancers in their stable, not to mention new lights like Eytan. Plus I fully expect that novels from some of those folks and others like Paul Kemp and Lisa Smedman and well, the list is too long, will continue to develop and write about the Realms. I have no knowledge of what is to come to the Realms with 4E, but I'm optimistic. Frankly, I look forward to evil winning a few so me and my players can fight them back (up until a couple years ago, adventures, especially of an epic nature, were getting a bit slim for characters), and I look forward to some inconsistencies being resolved. Plus, with Ed and Eric helping with the RSEs shaking things up, I trust it couldn't be in better hands, not to mention novels by Lisa, Paul, Salvator, and Rich Baker. Woohoo. Honestly, sign me up. I'm excited by the changes coming down the pike.
MarkHall 09-08-07, 04:49 PM	To each his own, I suppose, but I believe the Realms will continue to be a great place to game in. You see, I think there is a fundamental difference in viewpoint. If I came into the Realms-as-we're-glimpsing, fresh-eyed, without knowing the Realms-as-I've-known-them, it would probably be a very cool place to game in. A nation of orcs, struggling for, at least, acceptability, while conservatives want to go back to the old ways? Human, elven, and dwarven racists who are only too happy to slaughter them, despite their government's official stance that the orc nation is an unsteady ally? A returned nation of evil wizards? Two worlds smashed together? And unsteady, new form of magic less than a century old, with an old form of magic that drives people crazy? It sounds cool and post apocalyptic! Definitely it sounds like a cool place to game in. But it doesn't sound like the Forgotten Realms. It doesn't sound like the Harpers and the Zhents maneuvering to gain the upper hand, there Cormyrian crown a point of stability and light, even if the country is being threatened by intrigue and humanoids, the drow scheming the deeps, the elves brooding in the distance. It sounds like a completely different world... which may or may not be cool to play in, but not the Realms that we're familiar with.
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 05:05 PM	Exactly. That is my point. I might actually game in this 'new' world, but I will continue to run the Realms as a completely seperate entity in 3e. Who knows, maybe I will do two campaigns, one in 4e and one in 3e, but they WILL be seperate and unrelated worlds. If I do that, then one could follow the logic that the good guys won in a divergent reality.
Meldread 09-08-07, 05:07 PM	I'm with you Tom. However, I also agree with Markus. The Grand History will be the last great set of lore created for the "old" Realm's detailing everything that happened pre-Spellplague. A savvy DM can use the information contained within to rework the Forgotten Realm's to make it something suiting to the taste and flavor of the current Realm's. Personally, though, I am getting really excited about 4E and the changes that are being made. I have a strong preference for dark and gritty worlds, especially as I've gotten older, and the Forgotten Realm's really lacked that outside of a few minor locations. I ALWAYS enjoy the underdogs more than I enjoy the winning team, with only a few rare exceptions. To that end I've enjoyed games where alignment was more gray scale than black and white. I like it when my 'good guys' do questionable things to achieve 'good ends' just like in the real world. I like it when my evil guys truly are evil and either truly reprehensible or strangely alluring. If this is the road Wizard's is taking, I think my interest in the Forgotten Realm's may be renewed ten fold.
Meldread 09-08-07, 05:16 PM	MarkHall- I agree. It definitely sounds different than the Forgotten Realm's we currently know. However, as you've said it also sounds like a great place to game in... and for that reason I'm really excited. I want to hurry up and grab the new setting and get a feel for it. Of course, the point that has been driven home again and again with FR is that it is an ever changing setting. Unlike Eberron, which is cannon-locked at a fixed point in time, the Forgotten Realm's evolves. Just like in our Real World, 100 years in the future may yield something completely different, so too in the Forgotten Realm's will things yield a completely different world. Personally, if this is the road Wizard's is taking I think we'll have a good and solid product in which to game with. I think people will be upset at first but will eventually find that they like it. We have all the FR heavy weights, including Ed standing behind this and helping craft the future of the setting... I am both optimistic and hopeful that it will be something that everyone will find appealing to one degree or another. Most importantly, though, I hope it appeals to new people so that they can learn to love the history and the lore of the setting (both past and future) as we do.
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 05:27 PM	Yes, but it is not what we have come to love about the Realms. I also enjoy dark settings (Werewolf, Vampire, WoD, etc), and it sounds like tons of fun. But FR has always been 'high fantasy', not 'pulp' - we already have that with Eberron. @ TomC - Total respect, dude. I understand, as a designer, where you are coming from. However, I've been through this before. I was one of the last holdouts in my area to switch from GH to FR - it got to the point that no-one wanted to run in my GH games because of the 'ebil' new setting, Forgotten Realms. Then they nuked GH with From the Ashes and it never felt like 'home' to me again. I abandoned ship and embraced the Realms. Looking back, it almost looked like a plot by TSR to destroy GH just to get the last of us to come over. And unfortunetly, history repeats itself. :( I see Vader with his hand out... "Come... embrace the Dark Side" :emp: When you've been through this before, you tend to become a little bitter.
MarkHall 09-08-07, 05:34 PM	When you've been through this before, you tend to become a little bitter. You may notice me making a lot of snarky comments about the incoming 4th edition, and all the doomhounds singing about it. When 3e came, I was one of the heralds of a new age. I was singing its glory back when these boards were accessible through a newsreader. Now, I see the same people doing the "End of the World" speil, and it I giggle.
HVulpes 09-08-07, 05:46 PM	As for "The Orc King" 's vision of the future... Something smells a little fishy to me with these opening and closing passages. It just doesn't seem to make sense to lock in the fate of the realms this soon, for this long. It would make anything that heroes in other novels and in adventure paths seem pointless since things are going to end up this way. Something tells me that this time skip might be a red herring, rather then something written in stone. Unless they hope to skip time for a hundred years, which would be the only way it might work. Then it might make a little sense as a hint of fate. But the previous time skips has been of a limited time period of about a decade. Perhaps this is part of a teaser created by Mr. Salvatore and those at Wizards to cause confusion and speculation. A time skip to 1385 seems more likely to me, but I could be wrong. If it does skip to 1385, it might be that this new future might be just a possible illusion of things to come. I don't know, but it just doesn't seem right to me.
bitter thorn 09-08-07, 05:46 PM	I concur with Markus. I remember when this happened with classic Battle Tech. I think this is going to be one RSE too many. I detest the direct that the saga system took. I really am not looking for dumbed down edition of the game. I am intensely pessimistic about 4E. GhotR may well be the last Realms product I ever buy.
The Ubbergeek 09-08-07, 06:30 PM	Lot of grognardise here... Guys, don't be so fearfull on this aspect. First, simplification =/= dumbing down. It is not bad in itself. D&D always was a rule heavy game for the most years, and it tend to get more complex as an edition age. Not everyone like this, and the success of rules-lighter rpg starting in the 90s shown that its is NOT dumbing down in itself. If done well, it could give D&D benefits - just remember how that THAC0 thing was complex, and the refresheness from the newer rules. And second, Forgotten Realms will be well... Greyhawk is still Greyhawk; not well-suported but alive in a way. Forgotten Realms will live this one... Don't get too depressed, give it a chance.
Yaeri 09-08-07, 07:16 PM	I'm really looking forward to this, more so now I've seen the cover art! Oh no, that was Markus' version. The real one has Drizzt on the cover. :D
MarkHall 09-08-07, 07:16 PM	I don't consider 3.x to be terribly simpler than 2e. In some ways, it's more stream-lined, but it's inner workings are a heck of a lot more complex.
GothicDan 09-08-07, 07:49 PM	You may notice me making a lot of snarky comments about the incoming 4th edition, and all the doomhounds singing about it. When 3e came, I was one of the heralds of a new age. I was singing its glory back when these boards were accessible through a newsreader. Now, I see the same people doing the "End of the World" speil, and it I giggle. To some people, many of that which makes FR the world it was, WAS 'ended.' So a lot of us have had our beliefs already justified. Not to get too RL, but it's like the Jewish vs. the Christian views on Jesus. Some think him a Messiah, the others seem him as a failure. History can show neither is correct.
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 08:10 PM	So, in your example, is 4e the evil Muslim terrorists? :confused: ;) :P
GothicDan 09-08-07, 08:11 PM	... Could be. ;)
David E 09-08-07, 08:21 PM	Personally, though, I am getting really excited about 4E and the changes that are being made. I have a strong preference for dark and gritty worlds, especially as I've gotten older, and the Forgotten Realm's really lacked that outside of a few minor locations. Honestly, I couldn't agree more. I love the Realms, but when I look at new products like Pathfinder and read about a savage orcish kingdom far to the north or wildlands where monsters can easily abduct travelers for blood sacrifices to their foul gods, I cannot think of many places in the realms where such a place would fit in. Giving the Realms a bit of a "points of light" approach does not sound like such a bad idea. After all, I want to put some of these cool, gritty ideas that I read about in Pathfinder or other products in the Realms, as that is the world that I prefer. But most importantly, one of things I see people talk about frequently is how they changed the Realms for their games. Markus, you said in another thread that in your Realms, you've shifted nations around. Why not just give the changes in the 4E FRCS a chance - keep the changes you like, abandon the changes you hate. Personally, I don't really like the sound of a spellplague that just drives casters insane, so if that is really what is going to happen, I might just find another explanation as to why the powerful casters aren't really involved anymore. Or really, I might just not have them be involved anymore just because - not everything needs an explanation.
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 08:43 PM	A couple of points I need to make. 4e rules and 4e FR are completely different animals. I embrace a new set of rules, because it is the one thing that has gotten better down through the years. I have seen many GOOD games come and go... when the parent company made too many changes to the world. People like a world for a reason - if it changes the reasons go away. If they created a NEW world, I probably would have liked that as well (Eberron does have it's merits, and I own several books). However, in nearly every single case when a company changes something that already has a fan-base, they wind up alienating old-timers and attracting very few newcomers. "New Coke", anyone? ;) And yes, IMG I have made MANY changes, but I have always still stuck with canon as much as possible, by setting the game 15 years into the future. They just screwed my game royally. The worst I had to account for before was how Khelben was involved in my personal RSE, and that was simple enough since both the REAL Khelben and a person called Blackstaff were both alive in 1390. Now everything is changing too quickly for me to allow for any of it. I will probably start the campaign over, since it's been on hold for a few months anyway, and maybe set it somewhere between the new 'current' date of 1385, and the end of the Spellplague sometime when the next FRCS comes out next year. I will also most likely stick to my altered map, but set my own RSE ahead again - and maybe even tie IT into the current events depending on what I read in GHotR when it comes out later this month. Funny thing is, MY RSE had to do with Toril becoming Cotermonious with two other planes, and taking on aspects of both as the planes came into conjunction (think DC comics Crisis). From what little we now know about the next century in FR, it seems the D&D gremlins have broken once again into my files and stolen my ideas. So, in the greater scheme of things, this might work out for me personally - but I don't want to see the drastic changes I made become the default world; I like the 'real' FR to stay just the way it is. My changes don't effect everything, just my own game. What Wizards is doing is going to change EVERYTHING for EVERYBODY. Perhaps I can convince them to just go with MY map for 4e? That might help a little. ;)
Dark Wizard 09-08-07, 10:52 PM	Yes, all of a sudden the cover art seems... Strangely Appropriate. Given the recent tidbits revealed, it is appropriate. In a way, Drizzt is now one of the old grognards. He grew up with the Realms as we saw them develop. From the supposed century jump onwards, he's like us looking fondly back at the world of Toril that once was (parts that he liked and didn't like) and dealing with the issues of Abeir-Toril, the new world as it is now. Personally, though, I am getting really excited about 4E and the changes that are being made. I have a strong preference for dark and gritty worlds, especially as I've gotten older, and the Forgotten Realm's really lacked that outside of a few minor locations. This is not a direct comment against you, Meldread. Your statement brought up this idea, but I'm just speaking generally. :) I feel the world "gritty" is overused and things called "gritty" are often overrated. For the most part, "gritty" has degenerated into just a stylistic crutch, an old fall back term to get across the pretense of a unique style, depth and realism. Very rarely does the entertainment media live up to gritty. Most of the time it just has a few throwaway moments that mildly satisfy people who only give the thing a very cursory glance. I have no problem with gritty if done well. I just hope they don't try to do gritty for the sake of trying to be gritty. Trying and failing would be worst than some of the more dismal works produced under the TSR novel ethics code because this time it's not a mandatory policy but a mistake. To that end I've enjoyed games where alignment was more gray scale than black and white. I like it when my 'good guys' do questionable things to achieve 'good ends' just like in the real world. I like it when my evil guys truly are evil and either truly reprehensible or strangely alluring. My impression of the Realms is that the majority of it fits into this description. So I feel the setting doesn't need to make any particularly heavy-handed effort to change into this mindset. To purposely do so while most of the framework for this gray-scale is already present would seem like farce since everyone would appear to be overcompensating. Not that it couldn't show more of the existing gray morality. Just that removing the entire system as if it wasn't there to begin with and replacing it with something untested is a big risk that probably will not earn any real gains. "New Coke", anyone? QFT Classic isn't just a word they throw around. Unlike gritty. Gritty Coke. Sode gives you cavities, so Gritty Coke will just remove your teeth first and replace them with sharpened lumps of sugar.
MerrikCale 09-08-07, 10:58 PM	. However, in nearly every single case when a company changes something that already has a fan-base, they wind up alienating old-timers and attracting very few newcomers. "New Coke", anyone? ;) You have to wonder how they can't figure that out. How is that FR became so popular to begin with? Isn't that going to attract new people more so than these gimicks?
GothicDan 09-08-07, 11:03 PM	I've been saying for years: "3.X is a wonderful game system. But it's not AD&D, and doesn't have some of the things in it that I genuinely liked about AD&D."* And then I get told I'm a grognard, and to "move on," etc. I'm not really sure how apropos that is when talking about what is basically artistic taste. It'd be like me telling a student classically trained to "Get over Mozart." *This refers to a lot of the fluffier parts of 3.X, and it's design methodology. Anyone who feels that the design methodologies are the same - I have no reason to discuss things further with you.
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 11:53 PM	You know, rules systems never really bothered me. I even used a few non-TSR systems back when I ran GH (experiments, really, but I liked RQ and Rolemaster). I could run a game with any old set of rules, even bad ones, so that matters very little to me. If the new rules make the game flow smoother, then so much the better. I have NO problem concentrating on the 'fluffy' parts if the 'crunchy' bits work well by themselves. Thats why I never had a problem with a new set of 4e Rules... A new FR, however, sticks in my craw a wee bit....
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-09-07, 12:15 AM	It'd be an interesting shenanigen is Wizard's suddenly apocalypsed FR and started it over again. Not necessarily good or bad, but...interesting.
Old Sage 09-09-07, 02:22 AM	It'd be like me telling a student classically trained to "Get over Mozart."You're more than welcome to try, GD! ;)
bitter thorn 09-09-07, 02:28 AM	Lot of grognardise here... Guys, don't be so fearfull on this aspect. First, simplification =/= dumbing down. It is not bad in itself. D&D always was a rule heavy game for the most years, and it tend to get more complex as an edition age. Not everyone like this, and the success of rules-lighter rpg starting in the 90s shown that its is NOT dumbing down in itself. If done well, it could give D&D benefits - just remember how that THAC0 thing was complex, and the refresheness from the newer rules. And second, Forgotten Realms will be well... Greyhawk is still Greyhawk; not well-suported but alive in a way. Forgotten Realms will live this one... Don't get too depressed, give it a chance. I think we have a fundamental difference of opinion about what dumbing down a game system means. If you think THACO was complex, I'm sorry. I can't imagine either of us changing the others mind. It is interesting that you accuse people who are not looking forward to 4E of being fearful. I'm not certain who you are accusing. I don't recall anyone saying that they were afraid of 4E. If 4E resembles Saga, they can keep it. I will vote with the only thing that matters to WotC in the slightest, my dollars. If you like it, happy gaming.
Lord Karsus 09-09-07, 09:06 AM	I was not a college student so long ago that I have forgotten the power of free food. If I was was looking for a cult to join, you would have won me over! :cool: -Well, next time you're looking for a cult to join, you know where to find me. Food? FOOD!?!?!? Karsus is my lord. -gerbil bow- Rodents are at your command. :P -Excellent... Besides, Karse's Stones (and you know where THEY'VE been) have yucky Spellplague all over them these days... you'll catch a social disease hangin' out with THAT crowd. :P -Don't listen to him. He's seen the future of the Realms, and has gone crazy. Lot of grognardise here... Guys, don't be so fearfull on this aspect. -For the most part, no one really seems to care about the rule changes. I know I don't, as I don't intend to play 4e D&D. We are all concerned about the drastic and sweeping changes that it seems are going to sweep our beloved setting. And second, Forgotten Realms will be well... Greyhawk is still Greyhawk; not well-suported but alive in a way. Forgotten Realms will live this one... Don't get too depressed, give it a chance. -MT kinda said that Greyhawk was 'condemned' after it recieved broad and sweeping changes.
MarkusTay63 09-10-07, 12:19 AM	Greyhawk is alive in the same way that a zombie is - it moves, it moans, it shambles about making some small disturbance occasionally.... :( It would have been more humane to just shoot it in the head. :mad:
Dark Wizard 09-10-07, 12:29 AM	It's too late now, it won't die so easily. It's taint has spread leaving hordes of hungry and angry and rabid fans.
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-10-07, 08:09 AM	It's too late now, it won't die so easily. It's taint has spread leaving hordes of hungry and angry and rabid fans. ... Ok...what's stopping us from shooting the rabid fans in the head? Besides legal documents. Don't shoot guns, kids.
GothicDan 09-10-07, 10:07 AM	Shoot lasers. Pew pew!
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-10-07, 10:28 AM	GothicDan wins the Sound Effects Award. :cookie::duel::cookie:
GothicDan 09-10-07, 10:30 AM	The funny thing is, I worked with lasers last year. They really just go MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-10-07, 10:39 AM	Realism makes you lose fun points. Pew Pew is far better. :P
Alediran 09-10-07, 10:41 AM	What flavour the lasers had?
Rizogue 09-10-07, 10:43 AM	Well, childrens: It looks like the PDF has gone missing since the announcement of the Source Book. Now, I have already ordered the sourcebook from my distributor but... I NEED THE PDF! Any help in this matter will result in your eternal praise within the Halls of Rizogue. Thanks in advance.
hawkinsthedm 09-10-07, 11:41 AM	Just to let you guys know, the whole thing about a 100 year jump is just speculation. See below: All that we've said officially is this: The last entry in the Grand History is set in 1385, the Year of Blue Fire. From this remark many people have speculated about a timeline jump. More than that I am not at liberty to say right now, but I expect to be able to talk a little more about the "new" Realms in just a couple of weeks.
hawkinsthedm 09-10-07, 11:43 AM	Well, childrens: It looks like the PDF has gone missing since the announcement of the Source Book. Now, I have already ordered the sourcebook from my distributor but... I NEED THE PDF! Any help in this matter will result in your eternal praise within the Halls of Rizogue. Thanks in advance. Yes, the PDF would be a nice tool for when designing adventures on the computer (not digital ones, I just work better with a keyboard). Or will this be one of the first products with a code inside the cover that we will be able to download a digital copy of the book from? That would be nice.
Rizogue 09-10-07, 11:54 AM	Yes, the PDF would be a nice tool for when designing adventures on the computer (not digital ones, I just work better with a keyboard). Or will this be one of the first products with a code inside the cover that we will be able to download a digital copy of the book from? That would be nice. I was referring to the PDF resource that was available at Brian James' Geonomicon Web Site. It has been removed from there, but is currently in the hands of many. I would very much like to be in that list of those who have a copy. :)
MarkusTay63 09-10-07, 11:55 AM	The PDF is gone because it would not make sense for them to sell the new one with the old one floating around. And besides, the new one is going to be quite a bit different then the old, with more illustrations and information, so the old one is outdated anyway. Shoot lasers. Pew pew!Only if they're mounted on a frickin' sharks head. :P
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-10-07, 11:59 AM	What's that? Oh, it looks like a giant... WIENERS! Get your wieners, get them nice and hot. :P
MarkusTay63 09-10-07, 12:12 PM	Leave it to the rodent... :rolleyes: I'm really starting to regret creating that Avatar. :P
Rizogue 09-10-07, 12:14 PM	Right, right. I have read Brian's wonderful commentary on the many differences between his initial online work, and the new official collaborative version that is coming out. I was just hoping to get my hands on the old version once again, as many here have been praising its usefullness, and I would like to have a copy to refer to for current projects, and to clarify the timeline of many of the events that I am sorting through right now. I don't plan for this to be a replacement for the new sourcebook, which I am eagerly awaiting, but as a means for me to be able to refer to events when this book is otherwise unavailable to me. Thanks again
hawkinsthedm 09-10-07, 12:28 PM	I was referring to the PDF resource that was available at Brian James' Geonomicon Web Site. It has been removed from there, but is currently in the hands of many. I would very much like to be in that list of those who have a copy. :) I know. I was just speculating about them implementing the "downloadable version" that they will be implementing with 4e. I would like a copy of the old PDF, to read as a precursor to the new book if nothing else. Maybe someone who has a copy will PM us or something.
Lord Karsus 09-10-07, 12:52 PM	Well, childrens: It looks like the PDF has gone missing since the announcement of the Source Book. Now, I have already ordered the sourcebook from my distributor but... I NEED THE PDF! Any help in this matter will result in your eternal praise within the Halls of Rizogue. Thanks in advance. -Everything on his actual website is contained within the PDF, just not in a single handy document. So, you really don't need it afterall. -And, is it just me, or is anyone else disturbed that Rich Baker said "new Realms"?
hawkinsthedm 09-10-07, 12:57 PM	-And, is it just me, or is anyone else disturbed that Rich Baker said "new Realms"? I am hoping that the quotes indicate that the perception of the populace is that it will be "new." Anyways, I am putting my faith in Ed Greenwood to protect his IP (and hopefully that is enough).
MarkusTay63 09-10-07, 12:58 PM	Ohhhhhhh... :bigeyes: Nice catch there, LK...
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-10-07, 02:36 PM	Leave it to the rodent... :rolleyes: I'm really starting to regret creating that Avatar. :P I was a perfectly acceptable person until I took this avatar. Now I'm the generic dirty sensei gerbil. :D
Lord Karsus 09-10-07, 03:58 PM	Anyways, I am putting my faith in Ed Greenwood to protect his IP (and hopefully that is enough). -WotC, technically, owns the rights to the setting. I don't know much else about Ed's contract with WotC, as so far as doing things to the setting with or without his "approval".
MarkusTay63 09-10-07, 04:36 PM	He was one of the earliest to become aware of the plan for 4e, and I get the feeling (from things said) that he is indeed doing at least some of the design work. If that is true, and he is more then a cosultant, then I suppose all might be well.
Dark Wizard 09-10-07, 05:28 PM	"New" Realms...hmm. Maybe WotC is taking a page out of Square-Enix's corporate notebook with the Final Fantasy brand. Each new game is actually an entirely new world that only shares a few terms and themes.
hawkinsthedm 09-10-07, 05:32 PM	"New" Realms...hmm. Maybe WotC is taking a page out of Square-Enix's corporate notebook with the Final Fantasy brand. Each new game is actually an entirely new world that only shares a few terms and themes. Bloody Heresy! Don't give them ideas! Someone might read it and think it is a good idea! That would play major hell with my favorite novel line. (I love playing/DMing in it; but I would absolutely hate it if it affected the novels.)
GothicDan 09-10-07, 05:32 PM	I hate FF.. SO much for that reason.
Lord Karsus 09-11-07, 09:52 AM	-The games, as stand-alone games, are all mostly good. The series, though, is not. -Suikoden...Now, that's a series...
MarkusTay63 09-11-07, 01:23 PM	I tried to play one of the FFs, got if for Christmas one year. I watched a cr@ppy movie for about a half hour, and then the game began. I started in a house, and some dus__bag wouldn't let me leave. After spending about three hours of real-time trying to get out of my bedroom, I gave up and smashed it with a hammer. That was fun. :D
The Ubbergeek 09-11-07, 02:43 PM	The old FF are very good, don't diss it for the SOny era.
Mean Eyed Cat 09-11-07, 08:10 PM	I just got The Grand History of the Realms in the mail today... OMG... OMG... There's so much fluffy goodness :)
Iakhovas 09-11-07, 08:12 PM	More excerpts have been posted online at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20070911a :cheer:
MarkusTay63 09-11-07, 09:04 PM	It's OUT!!!? :eek: :eek: :eek:
cyroman 09-11-07, 09:35 PM	I have two questions about this book: 1 - Will it be made obsolete by the 4th edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings? i.e. how much of it will overlap or conflict? 2 - Will it include one of the endings of the Baldur's Gate game series and refer to it's events as establishing Sarevok as the new Lord of Murder? (I found this to be of the multiple endings to that game)
Karsus the Mad 09-11-07, 09:40 PM	Sweet! I wonder how long until it gets here... Isn't the picture in Scouring of the Utter East from Legend of the 5 Rings? :P
The Ubbergeek 09-11-07, 09:45 PM	I have two questions about this book: 1 - Will it be made obsolete by the 4th edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings? i.e. how much of it will overlap or conflict? 2 - Will it include one of the endings of the Baldur's Gate game series and refer to it's events as establishing Sarevok as the new Lord of Murder? (I found this to be of the multiple endings to that game) My answers; 1. It's PURE fluff, and since 4th edition is coming, I bet that they factored the future fluff in it... 2. I thinka t least a part, a version of those games is official, canon - there was official novels, anyway. So... But Bhaal is dead for good, as far we know.
Mean Eyed Cat 09-11-07, 10:13 PM	It's OUT!!!? :eek: :eek: :eek: Yes, it is out. Overstock.com is my new patron god :D I have two questions about this book: 1 - Will it be made obsolete by the 4th edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Settings? i.e. how much of it will overlap or conflict? 2 - Will it include one of the endings of the Baldur's Gate game series and refer to it's events as establishing Sarevok as the new Lord of Murder? (I found this to be of the multiple endings to that game) 1. As Ubbergeek mentioned, its pure fluff. However, they did put a "sneak peek" of the next 10 years [up to 1385] into the book. As my granpappy used to say "There's a whole lotta shakin' goin on." 2. No mention of Sarevok [so far--I'm still reading].
MarkusTay63 09-12-07, 12:39 AM	Wasn't he Spock's father? :confused:
soulnova 09-12-07, 01:14 AM	Yes, it is out. Overstock.com is my new patron god :D 1. As Ubbergeek mentioned, its pure fluff. However, they did put a "sneak peek" of the next 10 years [up to 1385] into the book. As my granpappy used to say "There's a whole lotta shakin' goin on." 2. No mention of Sarevok [so far--I'm still reading]. You must Spoil it (specually the short story) for me!! YOU MUST! Send me a PM, please! TOT
Krash 09-12-07, 01:25 AM	If you're talking about the short story from RA Salvatore as advertised ... ummm ... that didn't end up getting in the book. I'm not actually sure if it was ever written. Anyway, GHotR doesn't have a short story from Salvatore in it. I'm sure you'll find other stuff in there which will be just as enjoyable. -- George Krashos
MarkusTay63 09-12-07, 02:42 AM	Hallelujah!!! Can I have an AMEN! (Not that I have a problem with his writing, but now there's room for more of what's important). So when will you and Brian be starting the 150 Web Enhancements, George? :P
Yaeri 09-12-07, 02:54 AM	If you're talking about the short story from RA Salvatore as advertised ... ummm ... that didn't end up getting in the book. I'm not actually sure if it was ever written. Anyway, GHotR doesn't have a short story from Salvatore in it. I'm sure you'll find other stuff in there which will be just as enjoyable. -- George Krashos Does that mean those pages for the shortstory got filled with more history? :dancin: Can I have an AMEN! AAAAAAAAA-MEN Brother!
Lord Karsus 09-12-07, 12:07 PM	Hallelujah!!! Can I have an AMEN! -You've got then Jew shouting 'Amen'! :P
Suin Bahhar 09-12-07, 12:23 PM	You must Spoil it (specually the short story) for me!! YOU MUST! Send me a PM, please! TOT Ive been getting motion sickness from all the spoilers flooding in with Gloom and Doom messages.
hawkinsthedm 09-12-07, 02:29 PM	I request that anyone who wishes to post spoilers, please post them in a spoiler box. :D TY --Hawkins
MarkusTay63 09-12-07, 02:31 PM	Ive been getting motion sickness from all the spoilers flooding in with Gloom and Doom messages.Ohhhh... two more Gods for 4e, to go along with Angst and Despair. I'm really strating to enjoy the new Pantheon. :P
Lord Karsus 09-12-07, 04:06 PM	Ohhhh... two more Gods for 4e, to go along with Angst and Despair. I'm really strating to enjoy the new Pantheon. :P -In all seriousness, doesn't Eberron do that with their deities? They aren't individuals, per se, but are ideas/conepts.
Iakhovas 09-13-07, 07:55 PM	Hmmm. Check out this thread over at ENWorld. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207161 I cannot confirm what's being said here as I don't have my author copies yet. :rant:
Mean Eyed Cat 09-13-07, 08:27 PM	Hmmm. Check out this thread over at ENWorld. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207161 I cannot confirm what's being said here as I don't have my author copies yet. :rant: You wrote the book and you don't know? ;) BTW, TBoarder's intitial post is true-
hawkinsthedm 09-13-07, 08:30 PM	You wrote the book and you don't know? ;) BTW, TBoarder's intitial post is true- He was only one of the authors. I believe that they used his colossal timeline, then embellished it with snippets by various authors, such as Tom Costa, Eric L. Boyd, George Krashos, and Ed Greenwood.
HVulpes 09-13-07, 09:26 PM	I have been asking this everywhere, but can someone tell me what the future holds for Finder Wyvernspur and his church. I want to know for personal reasons. Any time after 1374 would be nice, please and thank you.
Karsus the Mad 09-13-07, 11:02 PM	You wrote the book and you don't know? ;) BTW, TBoarder's intitial post is true- Heh...they drop like flies don't they?
Dark Wizard 09-13-07, 11:38 PM	I can't say I'm all that surprised by the god-strife in the spoilers. They basically repeated history again. It's a bit bland, been there done that sort of feeling. Maybe the Realms is getting stale, but I feel it's coming from the changes, or more importantly the quality and direction of the changes. And they keep killing, incapacitating or imprisoning evil or neutral gods and characters at a faster rate than they're doing the same to good characters and gods. What is WotC doing? If they wanted to make the Realms darker wouldn't direct hits to the good guys (and mostly the good guys) be the most efficient way of doing this?
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 12:00 AM	I'm speechless.... :uh-huh:
Mean Eyed Cat 09-14-07, 12:54 AM	He was only one of the authors. I believe that they used his colossal timeline, then embellished it with snippets by various authors, such as Tom Costa, Eric L. Boyd, George Krashos, and Ed Greenwood. Yeah, I kinda knew that. That's why I used the ;) smily.... :)
cgarsmokr 09-14-07, 01:55 AM	I’m very proud of the work I did on the PDF, but that product was the result of one man sitting in his basement late at night compiling timelines in his spare time. The print Grand History, however, is the result of countless hours of collaboration between myself, Ed Greenwood, Eric L. Boyd, George Krashos, and Tom Costa. This was the dream team for this product as far as I was concerned. I only wish I had the pleasure to work with Steven Schend, as I’ve admired his work for years. :bow: So you already have the PDF and want to know why you should purchase the sourcebook? There are too many goodies to list them all but I’ll mention some of the features that I find particularly compelling about the print version of the Grand History. • Fans of the creator races will find juicy new lore. • Want to know more about the Sundering? Or what the planet looked like before this catastrophic event? • Curious about the Crown Wars? Want to see the first official map of the elven nations which fought the 2nd and 4th crown wars? • Dark elf fans will enjoy new lore on ancient Ilythiir and the Descent of the Drow. • The lost empires of Jhaamdath and Imaskar are fleshed out further than in any previous sourcebook, including a fantastic map for each. • Updated lore on Netheril, their enslavement of gnomes and the fate of General Matick. • Fans of the lands beyond Faerûn will enjoy new lore on Katashaka (the ancient home of the Chultans), the rise of the Imaskar survivor states, and the formation of Shou Lung. Maztica and Anchorome are represented as well. Sorry no Osse. • You want to read more about the Dark Three when they were mortals right? Or how the Tears of Selûne were formed? • Dawn Cataclysm. :incog: • Ed Greenwood's name is on the cover for a reason. Ok some of you are still unimpressed? Ancient history is great and all but you’re wondering how the Grand History will help your campaign set in the present. How about a month by month break down of every major event from the Year of Wild Magic (1372 DR) through the Year of Risen Elfkin (1375 DR). Those of you that don’t read every novel can now use these events in your campaign if you so choose. Of course there is much more than that, but I’ve probably already revealed more than I should have. :gel: I look forward to meeting many of you at GEN CON this summer where I'm sure I'll be able to answer questions in more detail. SOLD!!!!!
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 01:57 AM	You forgot to list the best part, NO Drizzt story. :P It's a bit bland... <snip>Thats putting it mildly. Its funny, but all of our theories about what the Spellplague was going to be were FAR MORE interesting then what it is. Talk about the epitome of anti-climactic. :bored: At least now I know to avoid the novels as well from now on.
JetLeechan 09-14-07, 09:38 AM	Bwahaha, I had such a crazy theorie over in the Magic deity and cosmos forum, bwahaha, im such a genius:bounce:, I was RIGHT!
Andyr 09-14-07, 10:10 AM	That's interesting, and I think I like it. :) I have to wait 2 more weeks for my copy (along with Storm of the Dead and Shadowstorm), though, which is sad.
Miryana 09-14-07, 10:24 AM	In 1384 DR, Tyr kills Helm in a romantic misunderstanding over the heart of Tymora. Though nothing can be proved, the gods believe that Cyric is somehow involved in Helm's death. Way to go, God of Justice! :rolleyes:
JetLeechan 09-14-07, 10:30 AM	I like it too, if thats all about the infamous spellplague theres nothing to worry about, the realms atmosphere and flavor isnt touched for me, since i dont mind new magic rules. But this isnt all what happens between now and 1385? There must be more than 4 sentences? Which time does the book focuss most?
Mean Eyed Cat 09-14-07, 11:09 AM	Heh...they drop like flies don't they? See my post here: http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3773284&postcount=64 This part in the book is really interesting [at least to me]: "Only greater deities prove strong enough to maintain their realms against the resultant chaos" Now, if you look at the cosmology as stated in Player's Guide to Faerun it states, "Almost every outer-planar branch has smaller branches of its own, which are the divine realms of the deities dwelling there. These realms are almost like distinct demiplanes." I'm not trying to be a doomsayer and this is wild speculation on my part, but taken in conjunction with the statement from GHotR it almost sounds like this: If only the greater gods can hold their respective realms together, than many of the smaller demiplanes are toast. Demigods, lesser gods and possibly intermediate gods may die. Those that survive will be living in an altered cosmology Again, this is pretty extreme... but, regardless of what happens, the new 4th edition FRCS will probably be quite a bit different than 3.5 [well, at least the magic system & cosmology anyway].
Lord Karsus 09-14-07, 11:22 AM	:: Sigh ::
DarkSongKnight 09-14-07, 12:08 PM	Woah! :eek: Theres part of me that is absolutely horrified, and another part that wants to break out into song! Details are definitely needed to clear some of those things up. Maybe the new FRCS will do just that. There was a small section in the back of the 3e one, so perhaps there will be fluffy goodness there as well. ;)
HVulpes 09-14-07, 12:26 PM	To repost what I have said elsewhere... I doubt that they would kill off all of the lower level gods, but they might cluster the gods closer together in their planes with a Greater God holding the plane stable with minor aid from the lesser gods. A Greater god is powerful, but a circle of deities is mighty indeed.
soulnova 09-14-07, 12:30 PM	They promised me a Salvatore Short Story! :mad: Thank goodness I didnt have the money to pre-order this.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-14-07, 01:53 PM	Its funny, but all of our theories about what the Spellplague was going to be were FAR MORE interesting then what it is. I feel the same way. :bored: How DUMB!
The Ubbergeek 09-14-07, 02:16 PM	I feel the same way. :bored: How DUMB! It is not dumb. Dumb would be NO CHANGE whatever, and an unexplained retcon would be insulting as much. You CAN NOT say it is like before!
DarkSongKnight 09-14-07, 02:17 PM	Here (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207161) are some major spoilers for GhotR. And here (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8788&whichpage=9) is the discussion going on at Candlekeep. The thing that catches my attention most is how Sune seems to be taking a more active role. Gathering deities to her and such. Maybe she'll be the leader of "love, light, and hope" for the "points of light in darkness." Endurance for hard times to come... The roll of years sounds nice, at least.
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 02:26 PM	Theres part of me that is absolutely horrified, and another part that wants to break out into song! This is how I feel as well. Many of those changes are things I would do in my Realms. But my Realms only effects me and my players, I'm not sure if I'm happy with them making such sweeping changes for everyone. I never really liked Mystra because there was way too much 'Munchinkinism' with her. One Chosen (Elminster) would have been fine, but for a neutral Goddess she was far to involved with the running of the Realms. Boccob (GH) was always a better version of such a god - Uncaring and supremely powerful. I wonder what they are going to replace Mystra with - a High Fantasy setting without any deity of Magic would be very stupid, IMHO. I wouldn't mind seeing Selune pick it up, just to keep Shar from grabbing it. A magic/Moon goddess is much more realistic. It would be cool if she also absorbed Eilistraee to give us something like the Wiccan "Goddesss". However, we know the both Eilistaee and Lolth survive, so thats not happening. Unless Eilistraee grabs Mystra and Selune's portfolios... :eek: I wouldn't mind seeing an Elven Goddess of magic, it actually makes more sense then a human one, at least to me. To be honest, this smells way too much like the ToT for me to like it. They took the single worst RSE ever created, the one that is nearly universally hated, and used it AGAIN?! :confused: Cyric was given too much credit. They took a very interesting human character and turned him into crazy god, and now this? At least he's finally gone... So if they axe Kelemvor, we have nearly erased the first ToT, right? ;) The Dwarven gods all killed each other? WTF? That just doesn't fit at all. Dwarven Gods are the closest Knit group out there... they even stay in touch with their evil counterparts, unlike the Seldarine. Thats just not right at all... :nonono:
SmartPaladin 09-14-07, 02:55 PM	See my post here: http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3773284&postcount=64 This part in the book is really interesting [at least to me]: "Only greater deities prove strong enough to maintain their realms against the resultant chaos" Now, if you look at the cosmology as stated in Player's Guide to Faerun it states, "Almost every outer-planar branch has smaller branches of its own, which are the divine realms of the deities dwelling there. These realms are almost like distinct demiplanes." I'm not trying to be a doomsayer and this is wild speculation on my part, but taken in conjunction with the statement from GHotR it almost sounds like this: If only the greater gods can hold their respective realms together, than many of the smaller demiplanes are toast. Demigods, lesser gods and possibly intermediate gods may die. Those that survive will be living in an altered cosmology Again, this is pretty extreme... but, regardless of what happens, the new 4th edition FRCS will probably be quite a bit different than 3.5 [well, at least the magic system & cosmology anyway]. HOAR! If he makes it, then he's sure to get a power boost. You know how many clerics are going to want to get pay back or something? :P Or how many players I should say... :evillaugh So if they axe Kelemvor, we have nearly erased the first ToT, right? ;) Mine! *grabs Kelemvor* What? You thought I was just a Hoarite? I like Kelemvor. He's a whole lot better then just about every other God or Goddess of the dead out there. Because most human deities of the dead just want to scare you.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-14-07, 03:13 PM	It is not dumb. Dumb would be NO CHANGE whatever, and an unexplained retcon would be insulting as much. You CAN NOT say it is like before! I can say whatever I want...and I will. It doesn't bother me that some people might like the new setting, so why does my opinion bother you? If it really does, I'm sorry but that's not my problem.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-14-07, 03:15 PM	Here (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207161) are some major spoilers for GhotR. And here (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8788&whichpage=9) is the discussion going on at Candlekeep. The thing that catches my attention most is how Sune seems to be taking a more active role. Gathering deities to her and such. Maybe she'll be the leader of "love, light, and hope" for the "points of light in darkness." Endurance for hard times to come... The roll of years sounds nice, at least. I love Sune (note my avatar), but I can certainly do without all these changes. I can build her up without knocking everything else down.
RedGlacier 09-14-07, 05:50 PM	Here (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=207161) are some major spoilers for GhotR. And here (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8788&whichpage=9) is the discussion going on at Candlekeep. The thing that catches my attention most is how Sune seems to be taking a more active role. Gathering deities to her and such. Maybe she'll be the leader of "love, light, and hope" for the "points of light in darkness." Endurance for hard times to come... The roll of years sounds nice, at least. ... huh. :twitch: Gone postal. Back when I no longer feel an aneurysm creeping up on me.
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 05:57 PM	Sune... the one goddess I completely ignored in the last three editions. I have never even so much as read her entry in products I have bought. The 'Paris Hilton' goddess is gaining in power?! :confused: Eberron is looking better every day....
Karsus the Mad 09-14-07, 07:03 PM	Sune... the one goddess I completely ignored in the last three editions. I have never even so much as read her entry in products I have bought. The 'Paris Hilton' goddess is gaining in power?! :confused: Eberron is looking better every day.... Hehehehehe
Dark Wizard 09-14-07, 09:18 PM	The last ten years of new Realmslore that fans had no chance to see develop but rather had WotC dictate has really put a shadow over the GHotR. The Mystra/Cyric/Shar thing I saw coming. The Tyr/Helm thing sidewinded us. Where the hell are designers pulling out a divine marriage from? Have the Faerunian gods ever been married to another? Up until now it seemed almost a foreign concept to them. Maybe if it had been in development from 1375 to 1385 (which would have taken over two decades if Wotc kept to their 2:5 advancement) it would have made sense. Now it really just seems like someone woke up and decided to knock off a few gods for no reason. I do not feel the tragic aspect of this story, it really seemed silly. It's that guilty chuckle one tries very hard to suppress when seeing someone do a stupid thing and get into trouble, even thought you're supposed to feel sorry for them.
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 09:28 PM	I have to agree, that idiotic marriage thing really was the straw that broke the Camel's back for me. I was willing to except 4e and move on, but it sounds like their not even trying....
Dark Wizard 09-14-07, 09:33 PM	Personal theory - It was all Leira's fault.
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-14-07, 09:47 PM	When in doubt, we can blame it on Leira.
The Ubbergeek 09-14-07, 10:09 PM	Gee... This sounds quite a lot of <BAAAAAW, they change mah realms!> They are the same, basicaly. To the base of essence.
Dark Wizard 09-14-07, 10:30 PM	Right... If random EMPs started to cause technology to malfunction on Earth and most of our scientists suddenly went made it would essentially be the same Earth we know today. Our life style would remain stable, our nations in their current situation. Our economies wouldn't suddenly collapse and we wouldn't be fending for ourselves in chaos of a sudden new pre-industrial age.
Lord Karsus 09-14-07, 10:59 PM	They promised me a Salvatore Short Story! :mad: Thank goodness I didnt have the money to pre-order this. -Wow...Just wow. 95% of us are celebrating that a Salvatore story was not included. That's like finding chapstick (Note, I was going to say something more mature, but I decided against it ;)) inside of a Cracker Jacks box. Sure, they are both useful, but you just don't have chapstick packaged inside of Cracker Jack boxes... They are the same, basicaly. To the base of essence. -The problem, though, is that they aren't. If Mystra is dead, and thus far, there is no replacement, that means that magic has ceased to exist. That does not sound like the Forgotten Realms I know...
Karsus the Mad 09-14-07, 11:06 PM	That's a poor analogy LK. As you said, chapstick is useful. You should have said mouse head. Or rat turd. Or losing lottery ticket. Or a voting ballot. Or any other numerous analogous terms associated with uselessness. If Mystra is dead, and thus far, there is no replacement, that means that magic has ceased to exist. That does not sound like the Forgotten Realms I know... Just magic via the Weave. Meh. It's best not to have someone of Midnight's...calibre...running the show anyway. They need us :D
Dark Wizard 09-14-07, 11:11 PM	A Karsus revival sounds like it might just work in the chaos of 4E. It could be one of the few changes I could get behind. Shar had to be keeping your stony self for some reason.
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 11:27 PM	OMG... I just pictured one of those big circus-tent style revival meetings, complete with folks passing out, tamborines, and a lot of "Testify, brutha!" Can we call them Karsus's Witnesses? :P
LGMoses 09-15-07, 12:31 AM	Right... If random EMPs started to cause technology to malfunction on Earth and most of our scientists suddenly went made it would essentially be the same Earth we know today. Our life style would remain stable, our nations in their current situation. Our economies wouldn't suddenly collapse and we wouldn't be fending for ourselves in chaos of a sudden new pre-industrial age. wat did you expect? you saw their new focus "points of light".
Dark Wizard 09-15-07, 12:34 AM	I almost wish they would just let the Realms get discontinued then. Better that than getting force fit into this Points-of-Light thing. Funny thing is that most of it already fits into that design philosophy.
MarkusTay63 09-15-07, 01:37 AM	You mean "Don't fix what ain't broken?" ;)
SmartPaladin 09-15-07, 01:57 AM	You mean "Don't fix what ain't broken?" ;) But where's the fun in that? :pbbbtt:
MarkusTay63 09-15-07, 02:10 AM	Don't get me wrong, I'm back on the fence with this one. I actually like many of the changes... I just don't think most people will, and I would hate to see FR disappear because of the people who refuse to support the new edition. As long as they don't skip ahead a century, then I'm on board. ;) So, is this in bookstores yet, or is all this information floating around the net from pre-order copies?
Zanan 09-15-07, 04:53 AM	According to Amazon Germany it is "out" on September 18th, though they'll post it on September 17th. Dunno about USAland though.
Mean Eyed Cat 09-15-07, 06:45 PM	So, is this in bookstores yet, or is all this information floating around the net from pre-order copies? As of today, my FLGSs don't have it yet. However, like I stated earlier, I was able to get a copy from Overstock.com.
Scererar 09-15-07, 09:51 PM	I grabbed my copy today at borders.
Borris 09-16-07, 03:40 AM	Nothing here yet. But then, I'm all the way in Canada. Amazon says it'll be available on September 18. Local gaming stores expect it for September 29. And Overstock.com doesn't ship outside of continental US.
Lord Karsus 09-16-07, 06:06 PM	That's a poor analogy LK. As you said, chapstick is useful. You should have said mouse head. Or rat turd. Or losing lottery ticket. Or a voting ballot. Or any other numerous analogous terms associated with uselessness. -Well, a short story, in and of itself, is a good thing. They need us :D -They always have, and they always will... A Karsus revival sounds like it might just work in the chaos of 4E. -I hope not. I do not support such a thing happening, simply because I don't think that "those who be" can/will pull if off right...:( But then, I'm all the way in Canada. -Never heard of it...
Demetrios 09-18-07, 02:28 AM	Heh, my local bookstore must have gotten it a bit early, as I got my copy on Saturday. I was wondering why the forum hadn't gone into complete meltdown over the revelations of the next ten years... :D Without being too spoilery, I do think we're in for more Kara-Tur goodness in 4e, simply because of some mentions in the "future" section. Why put such references in if Kara-Tur will continue to be effectively ignored? Most intriguing was the fact that the Emperor of T'u Lung secretly visits Mulhorand in 1375 DR. There's only one logical object for that meeting - a potential alliance against Shou Lung. I would be willing to guess that after Mulhorand finishes digesting Unther - the conquest is completed in 1379 DR - Mulhorand starts looking east...
Alediran 09-18-07, 10:30 AM	WotC should expect a full rant from me if 4ed changes the realms in a way that no longer resembles the realms.
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 10:35 AM	-Start writing some of your lines, then. Some.
Alediran 09-18-07, 11:23 AM	I already know most of what I'll say.
Rauric 09-18-07, 11:40 AM	Personal theory - It was all Leira's fault. Since I am a Mask fan I will make it that he made it look like Cyric did it. ;)
MarkusTay63 09-18-07, 12:16 PM	Ed himself is having trepeditions, but does have this to say about the future - So Sayeth Ed (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9905) He does make a point of asking us to at least give 4e a chance, though.
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 03:57 PM	-I just picked up my copy of AGHoR today. Overall, I like it very much, and give it a 93 out of 100.
Markustay 09-18-07, 05:01 PM	You lucky bastitch.... :pbbbtt: I am SO jealous... :( I'm glad they decided against the ten pages of free toilet paper, though... :dancin:
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 06:29 PM	-I just went to Barnes & Noble, and they didn't have it. Since I was hungry, and wanting to go to Burker King, I decided to go to the mall near my house, and while I was there, I stopped in Waldenbooks/Borders. They had it (albeit only one copy), so I picked it up along with a few other random books I decided to buy.
Gray Richardson 09-18-07, 06:59 PM	I am thrilled with the book! The cover art looks actually very beautiful when you see it up close. The price is even less expensive than I thought it would be. The whole book is just dripping with gems of lore. There is a ton of new material inside. I think people are going to be poring over this for some time trying to extract all the little new bits of lore. The maps are gorgeous and will give us lots of new things to think about and discuss. The book certainly opens up a lot of new questions, but it answers a few mysteries as well. I haven't had time to read through it all yet. But jeepers this is an awesome book! The authors and designers have really outdone themselves on this one! Truly a love letter to the Realms and Realms fans! :cloud9:
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 07:18 PM	-One of the things I was most diappointed with is the art in the book. A lot of the illustrations within it are simply reprinted from other sources, and given new captions. Other than that, though, there isn't a whole lot to complain about. Already, one awesome thing I've learned is that Tyche had Chosen!
SmartPaladin 09-18-07, 07:20 PM	Ed himself is having trepeditions, but does have this to say about the future - So Sayeth Ed (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9905) He does make a point of asking us to at least give 4e a chance, though. Why do I feel a urge to hug Ed and go "aww... So cute!"? :P
Krash 09-18-07, 08:11 PM	Finally. People are reading something other than the last 10 pages ... :clap: -- George Krashos
MarkusTay63 09-18-07, 10:02 PM	The authors and designers have really outdone themselves on this one! Truly a love letter to the Realms and Realms fans! :cloud9:I'm so glad that the very last Realms product has turned out so well, I can't wait to get my copy. :D -One of the things I was most diappointed with is the art in the book. A lot of the illustrations within it are simply reprinted from other sources, and given new captions.Don't blame them - their lawyers advised them against using new and/or excellent artwork. The suprise might actually kill some of us. ;)
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 10:16 PM	Finally. People are reading something other than the last 10 pages ... :clap: -- George Krashos -We always do. ;) Don't blame them - their lawyers advised them against using new and/or excellent artwork. -Say what?
MerrikCale 09-18-07, 10:24 PM	Don't blame them - their lawyers advised them against using new and/or excellent artwork. everyone always blames lawyers
Iakhovas 09-18-07, 11:29 PM	-A lot of the illustrations within it are simply reprinted from other sources, and given new captions.It was indeed unfortunate that the Grand History did not have a large art budget allocated. Knowing this to be true, I strongly advocated that the limited budget be spent on maps. One day I'll post my original maps so you can compare them against Adam Gillespie's fantastic work in the final product. So yeah, it would have been nice to have new artwork, but I'm very thankful for the maps.
Nugget 09-19-07, 12:33 AM	I am also a little let down by the art in this book. It is almost, if not all, recycled. But even more than the recycled art, I am upset by the art that makes no sense. Like the picture of the warforged captioned "Kisonraathiisar's slow demise." Kisonrathiisar is suppose to be a topaz dragon, so this makes no sense. Or the picture of the cleric of Pelor (Pelor's symbol is in the picture in 3 different places) that is suppose to be a cleric of Lathander. I understand and expect that art will be recycled. I just think that if I am paying top dollar I deserve some new art or at least a designer spending time to find appropriate recycled art.
johnkretzer 09-19-07, 01:07 AM	I have picked up here are my thoughts.... Complaints... 1) The art was all reclyced...and some of it was Eberron art...of a warforged....also Drizzt should be on the back and Elminster should be on the front...though I think we are seeing a changing of the guard...Drizzt will propably the new iconic character of the Realms. 2) So High Magic can now kill gods...(pg 158-159 1377DR second paragraph) 3) Tyr killing Helm. Two previously written intelligent deities being Lawful Stupid...Sune goddess of romantic love trying to arrange a polical marriage to bring balancer back to the celestial Realms...with Tymora who is fickle...sigh I know the Greeks made their pantheons seem like a soap opra but does the Realms have this way... 4) Cyric...I despies this god as in not a great villian but as bad made character. He should be dead...but no. Sigh 5) Nothing from Selune at all... Otherwise not bad...it makes going though the timeline and removing really dumb thing easier...but this will be last Realms product I'll buy as I really dislike the New Realms.
johnkretzer 09-19-07, 01:25 AM	When in doubt, we can blame it on Leira. Sorry we can't blame her for this...she was the victim of bad writing and was killed to increase a designers favorite gods power. Personaly her death was one of the most retarded thing ever done... well till the Try-Helm thing. But that just tied it.
Demetrios 09-19-07, 01:36 AM	Finally. People are reading something other than the last 10 pages ... :clap: -- George Krashos George, actually, after a quick glance at the last few pages, I first went right to the center to check out your monarch lists. That sort of thing fascinates me in real life, so I was very glad to see those, especially the new ones such as Narfell and Raumathar. By the way, has anyone ever tried to make monarch lists for places such as Calimshan and Mulhorand? I know with several thousand years of history each, such lists would probably be huge, but cool nonetheless. There's enough references to Calimshan's various rulers that the outline of such a list should already be in place, just needing actual dates and filler rulers for gaps. Mulhorand at least should get its history divided into Dynasties like ancient Egypt simply for flavor reasons. Hmm, maybe I might see what's already in the Grand History and work out some ideas...
SmartPaladin 09-19-07, 03:21 AM	I have picked up here are my thoughts.... Complaints... 1) The art was all reclyced...and some of it was Eberron art...of a warforged....also Drizzt should be on the back and Elminster should be on the front...though I think we are seeing a changing of the guard...Drizzt will propably the new iconic character of the Realms. Let's just hope Marvel and WotC never team up... I don't think the world can handle Wolverine and Drizzt in the same comic.
Krash 09-19-07, 04:24 AM	George, actually, after a quick glance at the last few pages, I first went right to the center to check out your monarch lists. That sort of thing fascinates me in real life, so I was very glad to see those, especially the new ones such as Narfell and Raumathar. By the way, has anyone ever tried to make monarch lists for places such as Calimshan and Mulhorand? I know with several thousand years of history each, such lists would probably be huge, but cool nonetheless. There's enough references to Calimshan's various rulers that the outline of such a list should already be in place, just needing actual dates and filler rulers for gaps. Mulhorand at least should get its history divided into Dynasties like ancient Egypt simply for flavor reasons. Hmm, maybe I might see what's already in the Grand History and work out some ideas... You're welcome. And the answer to your question is "yes" and "yes". Space constraints would have prevented them appearing in GHotR (and they are only skeleton lineages to speak truthfully) but I hope to have them done by the end of the year. Narfell and Raumathar were fun to do and something "new" for the fans as were the Impiltur and Amn ones. Thanks goes to Steven Schend for the basis of the Amn one and to Eric Boyd for helping me out re Narfell and Raumathar. I'm looking forward to getting my copy hopefully soon. -- George Krashos
Zanan 09-19-07, 04:29 AM	Finally. People are reading something other than the last 10 pages ... :clap: -- George Krashos Yep, though that was always going to happen. People are obviously quite nervous about what is going to happen with "their" Realms. And rightly so. Yet, essentially, we (all non-designers that is) know near to nothing about what comes our way and one thing that can strike the greatest fear into a human being's mind is lack of information. At this moment and time, the rare information on the Spellplague and various godswars leave many gamers - players and DMs alike - dreading the new editon. Out of that dread rises apprehension and later on, rejection. Without having any knowledge what is actually going to happen. In that respect, having novel marathons like the WotSQ/LP (just 9 novels) or even trilogies (spreading over 2 or 3 years) which contain valuable in-game information is not exactly something to endear the word "cliffhanger" or "exiting times" into the gamers minds. Just MHO.
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 08:55 AM	2) So High Magic can now kill gods...(pg 158-159 1377DR second paragraph). -You know how I feel about that. No matter what the canon says, it's still wrong. -Oh, George, I see what happened with Auseriel. While now everything is "right" with the world, I just feel that its a slight cop out. No offense to you, or whoever wrote that little tidbit, but, I don't know...
Karsus the Mad 09-19-07, 09:16 AM	-You know how I feel about that. No matter what the canon says, it's still wrong. There is that lost ritual that can shatter a godly avatar. Maybe there's even more potent High Magics than the ones we know of? Meh.
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 09:27 AM	There is that lost ritual that can shatter a godly avatar. Maybe there's even more potent High Magics than the ones we know of? Meh. -Oh, it's not that. I'm not doubting that such an Epic spell exists. I cast doubt on the fact that Drow can use Elven High Magic in the first place. In another situation, perhaps. But, in the situation presented twice now, in the LP trilogy? No...
Karsus the Mad 09-19-07, 09:42 AM	-Oh, it's not that. I'm not doubting that such an Epic spell exists. I cast doubt on the fact that Drow can use Elven High Magic in the first place. In another situation, perhaps. But, in the situation presented twice now, in the LP trilogy? No... Eh? What? Drow used High Magic? Huh? What? <shakes LK> Give me details aspect, give me details!
Suin Bahhar 09-19-07, 09:44 AM	:rofl:
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 09:50 AM	Eh? What? Drow used High Magic? Huh? What? <shakes LK> Give me details aspect, give me details! -This really isn't the place or the time. I'll PM you.
Zanan 09-19-07, 10:15 AM	Eh? What? Drow used High Magic? Huh? What? <shakes LK> Give me details aspect, give me details! You must have missed about a dozen threads on Lady Penitent I and the killing of Vhaeraun, as well half a dozen threads about Lady Penitent II about the ritual used to have Kiaransalee "fade from existence". Just enter the Magic & Deities boards.
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 10:16 AM	Drow have always used 'High' Magics... their indulgent use of hallucinogens is legendary. :P Also, with 25 spell levels in the near future, there is plenty of room for 'unknown magic' to crop up now... and those last five are in the 'epic' range. It was indeed unfortunate that the Grand History did not have a large art budget allocated. Knowing this to be true, I strongly advocated that the limited budget be spent on maps. One day I'll post my original maps so you can compare them against Adam Gillespie's fantastic work in the final product. So yeah, it would have been nice to have new artwork, but I'm very thankful for the maps.Brian, if it was a choice between new art or useful maps, then I think you definately advocated for the right decision. :D Pictures are nice (especially if they actually have something to do with the caption), but maps are helpful when running games, or even if your just a Realms fan trying to place certain events. Kudos, once again.
Rauric 09-19-07, 10:17 AM	Sorry we can't blame her for this...she was the victim of bad writing and was killed to increase a designers favorite gods power. Personaly her death was one of the most retarded thing ever done... well till the Try-Helm thing. But that just tied it. I thought so too so she is not dead in my camapaign, just waiting so she can get Mask to kill Cyric. I will most likely rework the Helm/Tyr thing as well. I didn't know about the Drow gods dying , but that really does not bother me. Vhaeraun was always treated like Mask of the drow world and Kyransalle was just not so hot. I think there really only should be Lloth and Ghaunador. So I guess that worked out for me eh? I would like to see more depth added to Bane and Shar. They are too "Mwahahaha" for me. I think Bane's dogma should lighten up so he can get more followers, and Shar is too annoying with that Shadow Weave. She should have to share its power with Mask or something. Mystra dead? Maybe the next version will be more neutral about her outlooks. Can Elminster be stated as CN with good tendancies, because that is how I see him and it sounds like that is how Ed uses him as well IMO? Plus the Harpers and Moonstars should get back together and the Harpers should just be more Cloak and Dagger than before. More Black Ops when it is needed. A revamped version under an interesting leader would be coolan I would love to see some new novels with them in it. People may not like what they see as the Realms being turned Gray all of a sudden but I have always run it like that so it is no skin off my nose.
Karsus the Mad 09-19-07, 10:24 AM	You must have missed about a dozen threads on Lady Penitent I and the killing of Vhaeraun, as well half a dozen threads about Lady Penitent II about the ritual used to have Kiaransalee "fade from existence". Just enter the Magic & Deities boards. I've been a wee bit busy with the ressurection....it seems I missed a bunch of stuff...<wonders off crackling madly>
Zanan 09-19-07, 10:34 AM	BTW, being a mega-mage, you should be worried indeed about the Spellplague :D
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 10:38 AM	But he's already mad... and actually caused the last 'mini-spellplague'... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 11:39 AM	BTW, being a mega-mage, you should be worried indeed about the Spellplague :D -That kind of stuff is below us. And anyway, we're not on Abeir-Toril, so no matter.
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 12:12 PM	Just Toril.... We still await the rejoining of 'Abeir'... :coolcthul
hawkinsthedm 09-19-07, 12:18 PM	Do any of you who have the privilege of owning the GHotR know if it mentions where the continent/land mass of Osse is? It is mentioned in the Class Chronicles articles a couple of times, but to my woe, I do not know where in the Realms it is. I asked the author, and he said that he does not even know its exact location. It is driving me madder than Karsus the Mad. :D They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa, They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa. To the happy home. With trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes and they're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 01:21 PM	http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/WorldMap1.jpg
drowdude 09-19-07, 02:25 PM	Well... just finished reading GHotR.... and the only thing I can fathom that helps the Tyr/Helm situation make sense is... Shar killed Sune during the Time of Troubles and has been pretending to be her since. :P
Iakhovas 09-19-07, 02:38 PM	Do any of you who have the privilege of owning the GHotR know if it mentions where the continent/land mass of Osse is?Alas, the Grand History does not make mention of Osse. Markustay did identify the correct landmass however.
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 02:48 PM	Alas, the Grand History does not make mention of Osse. Markustay did identify the correct landmass however. -Truthfully, though, there really isn't very much to say without making up brand new lore, which is something AGHotR really didn't do too much of (not that it was supposed to, though).
hawkinsthedm 09-19-07, 02:48 PM	Thank you both MarkusTay63 and Iakhovas. Iakhovas, can you name any of the other land masses? I know Anchorome is the land mass North of Maztica, and I have heard that Katashaka is the land mass South of Maztica. But I do not know any others.
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 02:53 PM	-The known continents of Abeir-Toril include: Faerûn Kara-Tur Maztica Zakhara Osse Anchorome Katashaka
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 03:54 PM	The locations of Anchorome, Katashaka, and Osse are not 100% canon, but are excepted as semi-official. Myrmidune, like Katashaka, is Brian James' creation, but not as widely excepted as the later. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/WorldMap2.jpg Braaklosia and Tabaxiland are my adds, based on very little research and boatloads of conjecture. :P Meluria is a 'sneak-peak' for a place I'm developing for the K-T thread.
johnkretzer 09-19-07, 04:42 PM	I thought so too so she is not dead in my camapaign, just waiting so she can get Mask to kill Cyric. If I was at the time I would either do that...or um Cyric would have been dead and Mask in big trouble I will most likely rework the Helm/Tyr thing as well. I didn't know about the Drow gods dying , but that really does not bother me. Vhaeraun was always treated like Mask of the drow world and Kyransalle was just not so hot. I think there really only should be Lloth and Ghaunador. So I guess that worked out for me eh? The Drow thing is interesting...I don't like the hints that Elistreea is going bye-bye within the next 100 years though I would like to see more depth added to Bane and Shar. They are too "Mwahahaha" for me. I think Bane's dogma should lighten up so he can get more followers, and Shar is too annoying with that Shadow Weave. She should have to share its power with Mask or something. Mystra dead? Maybe the next version will be more neutral about her outlooks. Can Elminster be stated as CN with good tendancies, because that is how I see him and it sounds like that is how Ed uses him as well IMO? Plus the Harpers and Moonstars should get back together and the Harpers should just be more Cloak and Dagger than before. More Black Ops when it is needed. A revamped version under an interesting leader would be coolan I would love to see some new novels with them in it. People may not like what they see as the Realms being turned Gray all of a sudden but I have always run it like that so it is no skin off my nose. I agree with the rest pretty much. Though I would like add where in heck was Selune during these events...She is supposed to be Shar's opposite...she doesn't even get mentioned. I think the Realms started on the spiral of downfall when they started going into great detail on what the gods were doing.
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 06:05 PM	Anchorome, Katashaka, and Osse are not 100% canon, but are excepted as semi-official. -Anchorome and Osse are both 100% canon, as both are mentioned and/or featured in official sourcebooks. Anchorome is mentioned multiple times in the Maztica Box Set, and Osse is mentioned in the novel Lady of Poison.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-19-07, 06:33 PM	-You know how I feel about that. No matter what the canon says, it's still wrong. I'll never be able to except that (high magic killing gods), myself. It just seems to me that god-killing is becoming way too easy. With all due respect to what you tried to do...;)
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 06:35 PM	-Anchorome and Osse are both 100% canon, as both are mentioned and/or featured in official sourcebooks. Anchorome is mentioned multiple times in the Maztica Box Set, and Osse is mentioned in the novel Lady of Poison.Buuuuuuuuuut... We are never shown 100% exactly where they are. We know Anchorome is north of Maztica, but Ed had it as a chain of islands, so they could still write them that way (there IS a chain off the coast). Osse is in even worse shape - its never even hinted at where it is, it all pure speculation. So yes, the NAMES are canon, but the locations are NOT. :P Cappish? ;) I'll never be able to except that (high magic killing gods), myself. It just seems to me that god-killing is becoming way too easy.Exactly. Gods have become nothing more then uber-monsters. :bored: The statistics in this book can be a great aid to DMs, but they do not tell how a deity should be played. The gods are not lists of armor classes, hit ponts, and attack forms; treating them as such reduces them to the role of mere monsters. They are, rather, beings whose very presence profoundly affects the course of events. Many of them represent elemental or natural forces that man can barely influence, let alone conquer. They should give this game back to people who understand it, like Ed and Gary. This isn't D&D anymore... :(
Karsus the Mad 09-19-07, 06:52 PM	With all due respect to what you tried to do... We didn't try to kill anyone :) It was suicide, not murder, so it wasn't death by magic for Mystryl.
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 07:01 PM	With all due respect to what you tried to do...;) -Though these aspects are so often blamed for it, we, technically, did not harm Mystryl. We didn't try to kill anyone :) It was suicide, not murder, so it wasn't death by magic for Mystryl. -Exactly. Buuuuuuuuuut... We are never shown 100% exactly where they are. We know Anchorome is north of Maztica, but Ed had it as a chain of islands, so they could still write them that way (there IS a chain off the coast). Osse is in even worse shape - its never even hinted at where it is, it all pure speculation. So yes, the NAMES are canon, but the locations are NOT. :P Cappish? ;) -Ah, gotcha.
Krash 09-19-07, 07:47 PM	-Oh, George, I see what happened with Auseriel. While now everything is "right" with the world, I just feel that its a slight cop out. No offense to you, or whoever wrote that little tidbit, but, I don't know... Well, you might want to enlighten me - my suggestions were late in the day and as I found out at GEN-CON they went in a slightly different direction.:) I've got no clue with what they did to Auseriel. -- George Krashos
hawkinsthedm 09-19-07, 08:07 PM	I humbly request that you continue to post spoilers in spoiler boxes. I am regretting ordering my copy of GHotR with the new Salvatore novel. I really want to see what you guys are talking about. If you need the VB code for spoiler boxes you can find it here (http://forums.gleemax.com/misc.php?do=bbcode). Thanks, Hawkins P.S. This request does not mean that I do not appreciate all of the people who have put spoilers in spoiler boxes.
Old Sage 09-19-07, 08:28 PM	Alas, the Grand History does not make mention of Osse. Markustay did identify the correct landmass however.I've speculated for quite some time (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=12649269&postcount=2) that Osse may indeed be the large island to the SE of the map.
Old Sage 09-19-07, 08:29 PM	-Anchorome and Osse are both 100% canon, as both are mentioned and/or featured in official sourcebooks. Anchorome is mentioned multiple times in the Maztica Box Set, and Osse is mentioned in the novel Lady of Poison.You'll find bits and pieces about Ed's Anchorome in older issues of DRAGON, the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover, and some of Ed's replies at Candlekeep. Note also that Ed's detailed Anchorome was largely overwritten by TSR's version.
customdrapery 09-20-07, 09:23 AM	I just wanted to put in my two cents about how much I love this book. I got my copy of the Grand History in the mail yesterday and I wanted to thank those responsible for getting it out there. I had downloaded the original pdf and used it extensively and it's nice to have the finished product that is much easier to read, plus the MAPS, so nice. I especially enjoy the Crown Wars and Imaskari empire maps. Thanks everyone.
Yaeri 09-20-07, 10:14 AM	My copy is on its way from Amazon. :dancin: I'm very looking forward to the maps. I once tried myself to place the old elven kingdoms on the map from the past in lost empires, and I don't know even 10 % of what the big wheights on these forum know. Needless to say it'll probably miss the ball by miles. It'll be interesting to compare it to the official one in the book. :D
Iakhovas 09-21-07, 05:52 PM	This month's Spotlight Interview at wizards.com is with myself, talking about the Grand History of the Realms. Check it out at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4spot/20070921a
hawkinsthedm 09-21-07, 06:02 PM	Brian, With your great love of the Realms and of keeping Realms lore pure, I think they should get you on the 4e FRCS team. ;) --Hawkins
MarkusTay63 09-21-07, 06:04 PM	Now there's a thought. I KNOW he would include some eastern goodness. ;)
johnkretzer 09-21-07, 06:39 PM	This month's Spotlight Interview at wizards.com is with myself, talking about the Grand History of the Realms. Check it out at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4spot/20070921a I would like to say even though I am dumping on what has happened to the Realms in the last few years of the time line. I do think this book was well written and would to compliment you on it. It might be my last FR boook purchased and it was a good one.
Old Sage 09-21-07, 07:18 PM	This month's Spotlight Interview at wizards.com is with myself, talking about the Grand History of the Realms. Check it out at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4spot/20070921aThe hardworking scribes of Candlekeep appreciated your reference to the Compendium, Brian. Good stuff! ;)
Andyr 09-21-07, 07:35 PM	You must have missed about a dozen threads on Lady Penitent I and ... Argh, spoiler blocks please!!!!! The second of those novels has only been out for a month or so; lots of us haven't read it. I am still awaiting mine from Amazon and have been trying hard to avoid spoilers for the past few weeks... Incidentally, Amazon have emailed me to say that GHotR will be delayed a few weeks for me (even though the release date in the UK was the 18th... hrrrmph). So I will have to wait even longer for my novel/history goodness! (Am also waiting for Shadowstorm to arrive, in case anyone is tempted to spoil that--though thankfully nobody has yet.)
Iakhovas 09-21-07, 09:43 PM	Thanks for the kind words everyone. I am very pleased with the Grand History and it’s wonderful to see many of you enjoying it also. Sage knows I love the community at Candlekeep and greatly enjoy writing for the Compendium, so it's a pleasure to promote both whenever I can.
18DELTA 09-21-07, 11:45 PM	Hey, Iakhovas. I got Grand History today. You did an outstanding job, along with others. Awesome book!:D
Bloodtide_the_Red 09-22-07, 01:33 AM	Well, got my copy today...and it's great. Tons of lore all put in one place. Maps and all thoes side bars too. But... I wonder why so much got left out. I'm sure someone will say 'they only had 159 pages' so some stuff had to be cut and it was to be a 'vague overview of time' not a lot of 'detail'. But still I wonder Too bad they could not have made SOFT cover books...maybe two or three of them to cover more.
msatran 09-22-07, 08:36 AM	Oh, make no mistake, Brian. You're an amazing man and we all appreciate what you've done. It's a labor of love. And we love you for it. We all know you didn't do the Spellplague thing, or the Obox Ob thing....
Lord Karsus 09-22-07, 06:49 PM	Too bad they could not have made SOFT cover books...maybe two or three of them to cover more. -That's a cool idea. A literal "Encyclopedia of the Realms".
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-22-07, 10:34 PM	We all know you didn't do the Spellplague thing, or the Obox Ob thing.... Obox Ob thing? What's that?:)
msatran 09-23-07, 12:05 AM	Suddenly all the Tlincallis, who should be worshipping Zaltec or other Maztican gods, suddenly worship Obox-Ob? Make no mistake, Rhee. I LOVE OBOX-OB. I wrote an Obox Ob song. I've never done that for any other demon lord. But he doesn't belong here in this situation, and quite frankly, it strains the bounds of believability, plus, it makes me say "!@#$!#$@!!!!!. Not my AMN game too." I run for about 15 different PC groups. More damage control.
ElberethSilverleaf 09-23-07, 12:31 AM	I went to Books A Million yesterday morning, picked up the GHotR and sat down to skim it before buying it. I read several parts of it including the last parts of it. Needless to say I put it back on the shelf, bought a coffee and left the store. Also I left handwritten notes in all copies of the books stating that anyone who buys it is wasting $40.00 of their hard earned money.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-23-07, 01:18 AM	Suddenly all the Tlincallis, who should be worshipping Zaltec or other Maztican gods, suddenly worship Obox-Ob? Make no mistake, Rhee. I LOVE OBOX-OB. I wrote an Obox Ob song. I've never done that for any other demon lord. Sounds to me like yet another "reduce the amount of gods" thing.
DicipleofLolth 09-23-07, 02:18 AM	Where can i find this PDF of the grand history?
18DELTA 09-23-07, 02:41 AM	Where can i find this PDF of the grand history? Its not a PDF anymore, now its a book. A poster named Iakhovas made a PDF, about the REALMS. One of the WotC guys saw it, liked it. So WotC has now published it. On the original web site for Iakhovas had the PDF on it, well now that its a book its not a PDF anymore. Look through this thread you should find some of Iakhovas post. Readers Digest version of what happened.;)
msatran 09-23-07, 12:07 PM	Actually, Rhee, this INCREASES the amount of gods, because now you have Obox-Ob, who's all madness, and Cyric, who's also all madness, unless imprisonment by gods means he can't grant cleric spells anymore.
johnkretzer 09-23-07, 12:18 PM	I went to Books A Million yesterday morning, picked up the GHotR and sat down to skim it before buying it. I read several parts of it including the last parts of it. Needless to say I put it back on the shelf, bought a coffee and left the store. Also I left handwritten notes in all copies of the books stating that anyone who buys it is wasting $40.00 of their hard earned money. Just curious. Why did you find so wrong with it?
Old Sage 09-23-07, 12:27 PM	Also I left handwritten notes in all copies of the books stating that anyone who buys it is wasting $40.00 of their hard earned money.Why would you do something like that? Granted, the "future" tidbits revealed in the latter sections of the tome, may be enough to challenge the interest of even the most dedicated Realms devotee. However, that shouldn't also deny potential readers from accessing THE most comprehensive and up-to-date sourcebook on Realms history ever to be published. 'Tis an extremely shortsighted view -- especially considering all the new Realmslore and historical timeline information you've now just denied yourself.
MarkusTay63 09-23-07, 12:49 PM	So I tried Waldens, Borders again, and finally both of my LGS's. I may have to swallow my anger and try the Borders I hate. Brian, have you got any feedback on this yet? I think this may turn out to be one of the best-selling products WotC has ever produced! Also I left handwritten notes in all copies of the books stating that anyone who buys it is wasting $40.00 of their hard earned money.You're insane. Furthermore, I think that what you did may just be a crime (not sure, since you didn't write in the book itself). This is the VERY LAST tome to come out detailing our 3e Realms. That makes it the most important purchase you will ever make if you DON'T want to move to 4e. What you did there was spitting in the face of Realms PAST, not future. "!@#$!#$@!!!!!. Not my AMN game too." I run for about 15 different PC groups. More damage control.I pegged them as 'corrupted Drow', who have changed deities several times in the past, so this just ties into what I have done. For anyone who cares, this is part of what I came up with for the Maztica thread - The Drow had an ancient sophisticated culture in Maztica in times past (that parts canon). Their empire fell, as all do, do to internal coruption and attacks from barbarian hordes fromwithout. The final straw was when the 'Descent Curse' occurred, and the Dark Elves were turned into Drow and forced to retreat underground. The Tlin'callis were originally a normal group of Lolth worshippers, but changed alleigences to Tiamet after she began to make in-roads amongst the Maztican populace. They worshipped the Dragon Goddess for thousands of years, and occassionally warred against the other Drow settlements or raided the surface. Eventually, a group of Lolth-worshipping Drow from Faerûn got caught in a Dwarf-caused cavern collapse (more canon), and made their way to Maztica. This new influx of Faerûn Drow brought Maztica to Lolth's attention once again, and she went into a rage that many of HER people had taken up the worship of other gods. She set about rectifying the situation, and soon all of the Drow settlements were back under her dominion. As soon as Tiamet heard about the betrayal, she cursed her former worshippers, turning them into a parody of Lolth's Driders, and they became known as Tlin'callis. Eventually the fickle Lolth again forgot about the Maztican Drow and they were once again left to their own devices, and many, Stingers included, took to worshipping other beings once again. In Drow, the word "Tlin" means Drow (actually dark Elf, but the lines have blurred). Callis means "The accursed" in Drow, and Dhet means "town", ergo... Tlin'callis = The Accursed Drow T'lindhet = Drow town (one of the earliest settlements after the fall of Telantiwar) I made up the linguistic connections, but they make sense. This way, the Tlincallis are former drow, cursed in a similar fashion to the Driders but by a different goddess. They have changed alleigences at least twice before, so I have no problem with Obox Ob thing. And the clincher is, look up Tiamet in RW mythology - she really did create Scorpionmen! :D Hope you enjoyed that, eventually I will flesh the whole thing out for the Maztica thread.
Gray Richardson 09-23-07, 04:46 PM	The cover price of the book is only $29.99. A very reasonably priced book. Very high quality. It was cheaper than I expected it to be compared to some of the other books that have been released lately. There are so many delightful things in the book. This is a wonderful book! Chock full of Realms lore, meticulously researched, adding lots of new lore to the Realms. It is a lovingly assembled gift to fans of the setting. I don't see how any true Realms fan could fail to be satisfied by the book. Someone who would vociferously attack this book in this forum strikes me as a lonely, needy person crying out for attention (even if they have to get it negatively). Moreover, someone who would actively discourage other Realms fans from trying to buy such a fantastic book strikes me as a thoroughly unpleasant and toxic person, with poison in their heart and a small, mean spirit. Which may well explain why they are so lonely and alienated.
GothicDan 09-23-07, 05:00 PM	Elbereth... What you did is pretty messed up. Seriously. What is wrong with you? Did your hatred for WotC short-circuit your ability to recognize a GOOD book? This makes me really sad. :(
msatran 09-23-07, 09:04 PM	Yeah. It's illegal in my state. It constitutes an aggressive slanderous attack on WOTC, as well as the Waldenbooks you did this in. In all seriousness, I hope the cops arrest you and that you have to pay the fine. I may loathe Richard Baker and everything about the way he handwaves the Realms, and say angry things, but there's a big difference between SAYING stuff and going to the level that you have, sir. One, it was a good book. Condemning Mr. James for having good research skills is criminal in and of itself. He deserves to make money. Two, you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. This makes it incredibly easy to draw a black line through anything that makes you vomit. Three, you should be ashamed of yourself. That was the action of a spoiled individual without any discipline whatsoever. If you don't like something, feel free to post about it here. How many copies did you put that in? I hope it wasn't more than 25, or you're looking at Grand Theft, which is a federal offense and carries with it a penalty of up to 15 years in jail in most states for damaging their merchandise. That's a violation of the rights of the business, the rights of wizards, and the rights of other gamers.
Shemeska the Marauder 09-23-07, 09:24 PM	The section of GHotR that hints about Bazim-Gorag's origins, and the fate of the Batrachi race is pretty damn cool. And not just because it calls the Supreme Throne a domain inside of and contained within the plane of Limbo. ;) I have to look at that as a "keeping our options open", cosmologically speaking for 4e, without firmly falling into a commitment to 3e's iconoclasm, or re-embracing previous lore in some form or another. That aside though, that page does clear up the rumors of them [the batrachi] and the slaad rather nicely. Gives the antipathy the actual Slaad Lords show towards Bazim something with more punch than just him being CE rather than CN.
Khellrendros 09-23-07, 10:33 PM	Well I like most of what I have heard about GHotR but sadly the last part depresses the hell out of me. Everything apparently gets all screwed up. I'll be buying GHotR later this week. Now however I am not sure I'll buy any 4E stuff. Was there a problem with Mystra, sure. Problems with numerous other things, sure. Worldwide catastrophes and deicide however do NOT have to be the only freaking way to change things. Hell Mystra has died a few times already... WHY, is killing her the only way things get shaken up. The supposedly most magically powerful being aside from Ao and she gets her @ss handed to her more often than a blind man with leprosy. I can honestly say that my 4 yr old can do at least a little better making up world changing events. Geez, she used to make up new stories about how the dinosaurs died at least once a week until she was told how at preschool. (I am not meaning to aim this at anyone in particular but same things again??? Just makes no sense to me.) Anyway I still say I will hold final judgment until the FRCS comes out. Then I'll head to Hastings get some coffee and read the whole fracking thing. I have the sad feeling however that my favorite setting won't be going into 4E. It'll be something totally different and I doubt I'll like it. The same things insured that I stopped buying Dragonlance stuff. I just can't help but get upset because taking my favorite world away (which is what this looks like) is about the same as my mom walking up and letting me know that I am adopted and that she is really a man. It destroys my outlook on the entire world. (I mean no offense to anyone who is adopted or transgendered.) So in closing I must say that if the world is going to hell I at least would prefer to be one the side that can cause the most damage. Therefore Karsus think you could spare a moment and teach me some really good offensive spells. :devil: Cause it's time to cause some damage and I don't mind being cannon fodder. :invasion:
MarkusTay63 09-24-07, 12:32 AM	Still don't have it. :( I didn't get a chance to look around today, so I'm hoping tomorrow. I have to look at that as a "keeping our options open", cosmologically speaking for 4e...On someone's blog, there was some talk of developing the Outer Planes further as 'adventure areas' in 4e, which was a major goal of TSR back in the Planescape days that didn't quite see fruition. So, since FR is supposed to be integrated fully with core in 4e, and it has been stated that they were making some changes as to how the planes work, there is some hope for us that FR will be moving toward a more multi-planar friendly environment.
Occam 09-24-07, 04:00 AM	To those so upset about the coming changes: Isn't this kind of thing par for the course in the Realms? I mean, what if the date when FR was first published had been set 1700 years earlier, at the height of Netherese power, and during the interim between 3e and 4e we were now facing the effects of Karsus's Folly? People would be pretty dang upset, I'd imagine. Kinda makes the Spellplague not sound like such a big deal in comparison. But the Realms continued on after that, and despite being very different than before, was still a great place for adventuring, obviously. The magnitude of this change isn't new for Faerun, as inherent to its concept is the rise and fall of countless past civilizations. There are any number of other campaign setting starting dates that would've run into something similarly monumental before too long. OK, so the Time of Troubles wasn't too long ago, and this seems too soon. But our own history suggests that such events come in clusters. By analogy, the fallout from one catastrophe (WWI/ToT) almost inevitably rears its ugly head a few decades later (WWII/Spellplague, presumably). None of this means you have to like what happens, of course. It just seems that in context, world-changing events in the Realms shouldn't be all that surprising. And if you don't like it, I'll just repeat what many others have said: It's your campaign, it doesn't seem so hard to ignore it and do your own thing. No one's version of the Realms is exactly the same as anyone else's, and many of them are quite different from each other and from canon. But you can still make use of most of the published source material and have fun with it, if you're of a mind to.
captaincarot 09-24-07, 08:09 AM	well i got me hands on it, from what i've skimmed of the start of it i love it. then i read the end bit of it. i now have both flaming torch and pitch fork, and am looking for any like minded mob of peasants to accompany me on storming the castle of the utterly despicable hearless and evil monster that is wotc. anyone coming. :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :hoppingma
Iakhovas 09-24-07, 09:22 AM	The section of GHotR that hints about Bazim-Gorag's origins, and the fate of the Batrachi race is pretty damn cool. And not just because it calls the Supreme Throne a domain inside of and contained within the plane of Limbo. ;) I have to look at that as a "keeping our options open", cosmologically speaking for 4e, without firmly falling into a commitment to 3e's iconoclasm, or re-embracing previous lore in some form or another. That aside though, that page does clear up the rumors of them [the batrachi] and the slaad rather nicely. Gives the antipathy the actual Slaad Lords show towards Bazim something with more punch than just him being CE rather than CN.I'm glad you liked that piece Shemeska. I wrote it without any knowledge of 4E, however, so I would not read anything into it one way or another regarding future lore of the planes.
SCMrks 09-24-07, 10:03 AM	I skimmed through the book when I saw it on the shelf at the bookstore and I have a question. On page 49 is that a warforge? It looks like an Eberron warforge? What is it doing in a Forgotten Realms book? I didn't have time to read the page.
Shemeska the Marauder 09-24-07, 10:34 AM	I'm glad you liked that piece Shemeska. I wrote it without any knowledge of 4E, however, so I would not read anything into it one way or another regarding future lore of the planes. Drat. :pbbbtt: Regardless though, it was cool.
Bluenose 09-24-07, 11:14 AM	I skimmed through the book when I saw it on the shelf at the bookstore and I have a question. On page 49 is that a warforge? It looks like an Eberron warforge? What is it doing in a Forgotten Realms book? I didn't have time to read the page. I think the explanation is that the art buget was spent on maps, so in quite a few places existing art was used or something that looked close enough. I haven't got that far, but there are some very warforged-like creatures appear somewhere in Eastern Faerun.
msatran 09-24-07, 11:26 AM	There's an old 2E module in Dungeon that explains what they are and what this is.
Mean Eyed Cat 09-24-07, 11:34 AM	There's an old 2E module in Dungeon that explains what they are and what this is. Issue #?
Shemeska the Marauder 09-24-07, 12:08 PM	I think the explanation is that the art buget was spent on maps, so in quite a few places existing art was used or something that looked close enough. I haven't got that far, but there are some very warforged-like creatures appear somewhere in Eastern Faerun. In this particular case though, the artwork in question shows a warforged from an Eberron book, while the artwork is supposed to be showing a scene from a dragon's long suffering death. Recycled artwork yes, but it's a mistake in this particular instance where the wrong piece of art was used.
msatran 09-24-07, 12:57 PM	I don't remember. It's in the 60's somewhere, I'd have to go back and look it up. It had beholders and constructs and other stuff.
Iakhovas 09-24-07, 02:17 PM	On page 49 is that a warforge?You're eyes are not deceiving you. Yes, it is a warforged. The picture *should* be of an imprisoned dragon in the final days of its life. So yeah, a mistake was made somewhere in post-production. I highly recommend you read the accompanying vignette on the opposite page. There is some great Realmslore there written by Eric Boyd.
MarkusTay63 09-24-07, 02:30 PM	'Mistake', or 'Freudian slip'? ;) :P :D
Derren S. 09-24-07, 02:52 PM	You're eyes are not deceiving you. Yes, it is a warforged. The picture *should* be of an imprisoned dragon in the final days of its life. So yeah, a mistake was made somewhere in post-production. I highly recommend you read the accompanying vignette on the opposite page. There is some great Realmslore there written by Eric Boyd. Will there be an Art Gallery online so that we can see the real picture?
selunatic2397 09-24-07, 06:37 PM	I bought 3 copies for myself, and my 2 main players! :)
Lord Karsus 09-24-07, 06:44 PM	Therefore Karsus think you could spare a moment and teach me some really good offensive spells. :devil: -Depends...What's in it for me?
Mean Eyed Cat 09-24-07, 07:05 PM	The section of GHotR that hints about Bazim-Gorag's origins, and the fate of the Batrachi race is pretty damn cool. And not just because it calls the Supreme Throne a domain inside of and contained within the plane of Limbo. ;) I have to look at that as a "keeping our options open", cosmologically speaking for 4e, without firmly falling into a commitment to 3e's iconoclasm, or re-embracing previous lore in some form or another. That aside though, that page does clear up the rumors of them [the batrachi] and the slaad rather nicely. Gives the antipathy the actual Slaad Lords show towards Bazim something with more punch than just him being CE rather than CN. Yeah, I thought that was pretty cool write up too. And while I understand that the Jotunbrud are giantkind, I'm a little confused by "Zhoukoudien". Isn't that a cave in China? :confused:
Dark Wizard 09-24-07, 07:16 PM	I just got it today. First thing, I take back what I said about the somewhat inappropriate cover. The back cover with Elminster looking back in the direction of the spine or front cover makes all the difference, it's two of the most iconic characters of the Realms focused on the same thing. It portrays a more encompassing feel that neither character could convey alone, albeit El could pull if off better than Drizzt by default due to his sagely status. The recycling of art worked out pretty good, I recalled where a few were from but usually they were appropriate and helped the layout. A few I can't remember ever seeing, so those were fun to see. Very few were taken from another iconic source or came from an completely off look or design. The maps were great, finally we get a glimpse of the great empires of Faerun at their height. Ever since the map in LEoF I've tried imagining what a map of the various infamous magical empires of the ages past might be like. It put a lot of the history into context with neighboring areas. The essays and letters were excellent, written in the perspective of characters, some made too look like the actual documents (ex. handwriting/calligraphy style font, blood stained notes) it was all soaked in flavor. It really helped immerse me as a reader and it felt like the old 2e books written from a more personal view. I love the chapter headings to the 2e sourcebooks usually written in character by some sage or another. The lineage of the various monarchies awakened a feeling I hadn't felt since reading the appendix of LotR many years ago. I thought Tolkien had a nice story, but the histories and lineages in the appendix really made me feel the world existed. That was impressive. I felt the same widening of my eyes as they ate up the details of those lineages. The changes only took up a portion of the last page of the book. They were confined mostly to the last two years and vague enough to leave open some interpretations. They do not detract from the rest of the book, from the venerable and very comprehensive timeline to the flavor-filled essays to the beautiful layout. It is the perfect book to end off 3e and a valuable book to still have available for the launch of FR into 4E a year from now. Thank you Brian James for putting the timeline together and for contributing all those essays to the physical version (I saw your initials very often and was impressed by each essay with them :) ). And of course I would like to thank all the other initials at the end of the other essays; Ed Greenwood, Eric Boyd, George Krashos, Tom Costa, I hope I'm not missing any. Even if it wasn't stated officially, I can't think of a more wonderful 20th anniversary book for Realms.
Mean Eyed Cat 09-24-07, 07:16 PM	Ah, nevermind. It appears that Zhoukoudien is a batrachi High One that was slain in -315000 DR
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-24-07, 08:41 PM	None of this means you have to like what happens, of course. It just seems that in context, world-changing events in the Realms shouldn't be all that surprising. And if you don't like it, I'll just repeat what many others have said: It's your campaign, it doesn't seem so hard to ignore it and do your own thing. No one's version of the Realms is exactly the same as anyone else's, and many of them are quite different from each other and from canon. But you can still make use of most of the published source material and have fun with it, if you're of a mind to. That is precisely what I plan to do. I pretty much agree with what you've said here...although I will add (in response to what I've italicized) that just because I plan to ignore something doesn't mean I'm not going to talk about it. What can I say, it feels good to vent sometimes.
Lord Karsus 09-24-07, 11:40 PM	The essays and letters were excellent, written in the perspective of characters, some made too look like the actual documents (ex. handwriting/calligraphy style font, blood stained notes) it was all soaked in flavor. It really helped immerse me as a reader and it felt like the old 2e books written from a more personal view. I love the chapter headings to the 2e sourcebooks usually written in character by some sage or another. -While I liked those essays, I also disliked them. Some of them were hard to read- not in the way they were written or anything, but the actual fonts themselves...
Dark Wizard 09-25-07, 12:00 AM	That is true, at first glance through I found mostly the ones with decent fonts. Looking back some of them could have used a more clear font.
Lord Karsus 09-25-07, 12:09 AM	-That's a minor complaint, though. ;)
MarkusTay63 09-25-07, 01:12 AM	Finally got it, and I have to say I was made unhappy BEFORE I even cracked the covers. The store only had one left, and there was a 'chip' missing out of the center of the cover. It makes my waterfalll ugly. :( I'd have to agree with the above statements - the fonts were rough in certain spots but all-in-all an ecellent source.The maps left me drooling, and all of the Vignettes were very enlightening. Some of the stuff at the beginning left me shaking my head, but the stuff at the end was of course no suprise at this point (although having it in front of me in B&W made it oh-so-more real). I will be reading this through tonight, so I will likely have more to add on the morrow. I just got it today. First thing, I take back what I said about the somewhat inappropriate cover. The back cover with Elminster looking back in the direction of the spine or front cover makes all the difference, it's two of the most iconic characters of the Realms focused on the same thing. It portrays a more encompassing feel that neither character could convey alone, albeit El could pull if off better than Drizzt by default due to his sagely status.What I want to know is when is Wizards going to give us a Wallpaper of that picture? And if they don't want to, they can at least put the full artwork up somewhere where I can turn it into one myself (note that the pic of El on the back looks eerily like the cover I 'faked'?)
Lord Karsus 09-25-07, 02:48 PM	(note that the pic of El on the back looks eerily like the cover I 'faked'?) -They stole it from us, my preciousss....
MarkusTay63 09-25-07, 03:25 PM	Nah, that was done way before I started having fun. :P I just thought it was a little weird that I had used nearly the same pic and pose. I would never try to steal any thunder from Todd Lockwood - he's one of the few 3e artists that knock my socks off.
hawkinsthedm 09-25-07, 03:29 PM	My opinion was that they just all-around got better artists for the 3.x FR supplements than for the rest of the 3.x products.
sillaric_culdanin 09-25-07, 05:54 PM	I'd just like to add to this a bit. First of all Brian, thank you, thank you, thank you! You're hard work has resulted in a very cool piece that I will be referencing, rereading and enjoying for years to come. The FR community at large owes you a debt that we can only repay by purchasing every copy of this WotC prints (that is if your deal included royalties, and I hope it did and I hope it sells better than any RPG book in history). Well done sir! With regard to the book, I loved it and it goes down in history as one of four 3.X FR RPG books that I read cover to cover without opening another book in the meantime (the others were, in order: FRCS, LEoF and Dragons of Faerun). Once more, well done! Now to stop gushing. I'm curious, have any of the FR DMs in the community really considered whether they'll use any of the future bits mentioned in their home campaigns as seeds? For instance, I'm running a tabletop game in 1374 that will likely have a fair bit of downtime and will quickly (within a year RL time) be into 1375/76. I'm considering planting some seeds that will grow into some of the events mentioned, possibly with the party be given the choice to sacrifice themselves at epic levels to save at least a part of Faerun during the "Blue Fire" events and giving us a reason to start over with level 1 4e characters. Anyone else starting to plan anything yet?
bitter thorn 09-25-07, 07:03 PM	Awesome book!! I love it, and I'm probably going to give some out as gifts. I'm going to miss the Realms as a supported product line.
Balafre 09-26-07, 11:20 AM	just finished reading it quite nice werent they supposed to add infos about the ascension to godhood og Bane/Myrkul/Bhaal??? also, we have infos on the supermodules Cormyr TotW, Shadowdale SotL but what about the last one, Anauroch?!?!?? and finally, if we want to have our players being part of the timeline events from 1373 to 1385, are there any books (except novels) worth buying giving more informations about it (fey'ri attack, Myth Drannor, Crusade, Rage of Dragons, Risen Sun Heresy etc)???
MarkusTay63 09-26-07, 11:32 AM	The timeline from 1375 to 1385 was left VERY sparse on purpose. I am sure much more happened, and wil happen, once we get the new FRCS. The events in the GHotR are those we either already new about from products currently relesed, or were 'sneak-peaks' at what is to come in the near future (like the Spellplague). You aren't really meant to use that information to run an entire campaign in that decade, but you could. Personally, though, I would wait until the rest of the information comes out before I did that. ;)
hawkinsthedm 09-26-07, 12:27 PM	I think we should all go read Ed Greenwood's letter to Candlekeep (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9905) (I think MarkusTay63 first posted the link). I find his response the the happenings in the Realms humbling and encouraging.
MarkusTay63 09-26-07, 02:14 PM	As my sons would say - "Fo Shizzle"! :D
Balafre 09-26-07, 02:30 PM	As my sons would say - "Fo Shizzle"! :D :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: but still, it is a little bit stupid that we have to wait for the 4th edition FR to know what happened!! If I want to do something with my players during the crusade of Myth Drannor it could be ggod that we have some keyed NPCs instead of all creating them well, it is a sad day :raincloud
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-26-07, 03:28 PM	also, we have infos on the supermodules Cormyr TotW, Shadowdale SotL but what about the last one, Anauroch?!?!?? They haven't told us everything. :) Partly because it would spoil the outcomes of certain novel trilogies going on right now. Same goes for Anauroch. The timeline (all of it) should be looked at as selective rather than exhaustive, as well as deliberately designed to avoid spoiling the events in upcoming products.