Great Wheel or Planar Tree? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Great Wheel or Planar Tree? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zerthimon
08-24-03, 08:12 AM I was wondering how exactly the Realms cosmology works.

In Faiths and Pantheons a portal to Sigil is mentioned, which should not exist in the FRCS Planar Tree Cosmology. But maybe the Planar Tree is just Toril's view on the multiverse.

Is Arvandor, the home of the Seldarine, still a layer of Arborea or a plane in it's own right?

I remember that in the Planescape Setting the Gods, or powers, met near the Spire in the Outlands to settle down conflicts, now the plane Cynosure appears in the FRCS as a meeting place.

Will there be a source book to this topic in near future?

Well, these are many questions, I know. I hope anybody can make some clarifications on this topic.
Another Gnome
08-24-03, 08:27 AM FR cosmology will get some attention in the FR Player's Guide that gets released sometime next year.

Still, even if FR cosmology is separate from the Great Wheel, the Plane of Shadow functions as a pathway between different realities, so you could create a portal from Toril to the Plane of Shadow and from there to Sigil, or wherever you're planning to go (see Manual of the Planes).
Shemeska the Marauder
08-30-03, 04:32 AM Silly prime mages... *shakes head and sighs* 'tis their own view on the planes. Makes it rather embarrasing when one of them walks around Sigil and find's their life's research on the planes to be hopelessly misguided. Maybe it's just primes in general and not a Toril thing. The sphere does have a reputation for producing mages of note, if being a tad self centered. But than again, who am 'I' to call anyone else self centered. *preens*

But than again, when you're an Arcanaloth its hard to not be, especially when that 'loth happens to be me. *preens some more*
Thrudjelmer
08-30-03, 09:41 PM Originally posted by Another Gnome
even if FR cosmology is separate from the Great Wheel, the Plane of Shadow functions as a pathway between different realities, so you could create a portal from Toril to the Plane of Shadow and from there to Sigil, or wherever you're planning to go (see Manual of the Planes).

Of course, when I first read that, I thought this was the biggest cop out the 3E Realms designers came up with for the various changes to a campaign setting I've been playing with for years. After much reflection, however, I've come to realize its the dumbest idea to ever come into contact with the Forgotten Realms.

What are the real Forgotten Realms now? As far as I'm concerned, its the idiotic planes of "the Great Tree." Stupid, stupid, stupid... I'm just glad I've still got all my old Planescape materials and plenty of online resources for the same. Still, I hate that barmy slang terminology that permeates every aspect of the setting, but even that is far less annoying than this "Let's keep FR a separate setting by making up a completely new cosmology" crap. I can't stress enough how much of a stupid idea it was, and the person who originally came up with it should be fired... out of a cannon... into a volcano!
Gotrex
08-30-03, 09:49 PM Even stupider was the implimentation

if it had been implimented correctly it may of been forgivable

but as it is half the source books ignore the new cosmology and there are inconsitencies coming out iof every inch of the realms
Straploknight
08-30-03, 11:18 PM Lay off the coffee fellas....take a breath and calm down. Its just an arrangment of ink on paper, not really worth the effort of shooting one guy out of a cannon into a volcano in the hopes of the ink rearranging itself more to your liking.
Thrudjelmer
08-31-03, 07:49 PM Oh, I have no illusions that the ink will be rearranged. The firing the guy out of a cannon into a volcano is strictly punishment for ruining what used to be a fun setting for me. The only saving grace is the abundance of 2nd Edition source material that I can fall back on when I want to know something non-statistical.

And coffee has nothing to do with my rabid nature... I'm naturally this viscious when it comes to rampant stupidity of this kind.
Iuducium
08-31-03, 11:27 PM Going off of the reference to the "Nirvana of Mechanus" in the Shadowdale novel by Scott Ciencin, the "planes" of the deities in FR are really just a weird kinda demiplane in one of the planes of the Great Ring. Dweomerheart, for example, is located in the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus. Exact location is hard to pin down, but that's what I've interpreted it as, and it ties 2e and 3e neatly together for the most part.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zerthimon 08-24-03, 08:12 AM	I was wondering how exactly the Realms cosmology works. In Faiths and Pantheons a portal to Sigil is mentioned, which should not exist in the FRCS Planar Tree Cosmology. But maybe the Planar Tree is just Toril's view on the multiverse. Is Arvandor, the home of the Seldarine, still a layer of Arborea or a plane in it's own right? I remember that in the Planescape Setting the Gods, or powers, met near the Spire in the Outlands to settle down conflicts, now the plane Cynosure appears in the FRCS as a meeting place. Will there be a source book to this topic in near future? Well, these are many questions, I know. I hope anybody can make some clarifications on this topic.
Another Gnome 08-24-03, 08:27 AM	FR cosmology will get some attention in the FR Player's Guide that gets released sometime next year. Still, even if FR cosmology is separate from the Great Wheel, the Plane of Shadow functions as a pathway between different realities, so you could create a portal from Toril to the Plane of Shadow and from there to Sigil, or wherever you're planning to go (see Manual of the Planes).
Shemeska the Marauder 08-30-03, 04:32 AM	Silly prime mages... shakes head and sighs 'tis their own view on the planes. Makes it rather embarrasing when one of them walks around Sigil and find's their life's research on the planes to be hopelessly misguided. Maybe it's just primes in general and not a Toril thing. The sphere does have a reputation for producing mages of note, if being a tad self centered. But than again, who am 'I' to call anyone else self centered. preens But than again, when you're an Arcanaloth its hard to not be, especially when that 'loth happens to be me. preens some more
Thrudjelmer 08-30-03, 09:41 PM	Originally posted by Another Gnome even if FR cosmology is separate from the Great Wheel, the Plane of Shadow functions as a pathway between different realities, so you could create a portal from Toril to the Plane of Shadow and from there to Sigil, or wherever you're planning to go (see Manual of the Planes). Of course, when I first read that, I thought this was the biggest cop out the 3E Realms designers came up with for the various changes to a campaign setting I've been playing with for years. After much reflection, however, I've come to realize its the dumbest idea to ever come into contact with the Forgotten Realms. What are the real Forgotten Realms now? As far as I'm concerned, its the idiotic planes of "the Great Tree." Stupid, stupid, stupid... I'm just glad I've still got all my old Planescape materials and plenty of online resources for the same. Still, I hate that barmy slang terminology that permeates every aspect of the setting, but even that is far less annoying than this "Let's keep FR a separate setting by making up a completely new cosmology" crap. I can't stress enough how much of a stupid idea it was, and the person who originally came up with it should be fired... out of a cannon... into a volcano!
Gotrex 08-30-03, 09:49 PM	Even stupider was the implimentation if it had been implimented correctly it may of been forgivable but as it is half the source books ignore the new cosmology and there are inconsitencies coming out iof every inch of the realms
Straploknight 08-30-03, 11:18 PM	Lay off the coffee fellas....take a breath and calm down. Its just an arrangment of ink on paper, not really worth the effort of shooting one guy out of a cannon into a volcano in the hopes of the ink rearranging itself more to your liking.
Thrudjelmer 08-31-03, 07:49 PM	Oh, I have no illusions that the ink will be rearranged. The firing the guy out of a cannon into a volcano is strictly punishment for ruining what used to be a fun setting for me. The only saving grace is the abundance of 2nd Edition source material that I can fall back on when I want to know something non-statistical. And coffee has nothing to do with my rabid nature... I'm naturally this viscious when it comes to rampant stupidity of this kind.
Iuducium 08-31-03, 11:27 PM	Going off of the reference to the "Nirvana of Mechanus" in the Shadowdale novel by Scott Ciencin, the "planes" of the deities in FR are really just a weird kinda demiplane in one of the planes of the Great Ring. Dweomerheart, for example, is located in the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus. Exact location is hard to pin down, but that's what I've interpreted it as, and it ties 2e and 3e neatly together for the most part.